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Junkers_Jack
02-12-2006, 05:06 AM
Ubisoft Folks,

There are a good number of players now interested in the use of devicelink for diy cockpit simulators to drive either actual istruments via an interface of graphics moved onto a client PC. In short an excellent feature.

However ONLY OFFLINE. In fact it seems a deliberate act to kill the capability for online play. I guess it is possible to have the feature online with a software mod.

To most this seems a daft thing, why has it been disabled. Is it really a cheat / unfair for some to use the feature and others who are not interested to not use it.
We don't limit TrackIR use could this be considered as unfair online for pilots to be able to use head motion especially in full cockpit. Oooh do I hear uproar from avid TrackIR fans after spending all that dosh he he. Yes I do use TrackIR. On the same tack force feedback gives very early warning of stall. Is it fair for one to have it and not another.

We all know that offline shooting up AI is not the same as online with human opponents I would be very interested to see how differenly I handle the a/c via udpgraph log under online conditions.

There has been mention of allowing the sever to enable in which case suerely all servers would default to enable to enxourage all pilots to fly there. In which case client side would leave the choice to the individual. In any event its the pilot that counts a noob (with respect) can have all the high tech assistance but if can't peform the basics of ACM it won,t make a lot of difference he is dead very soon in the shark pool of online dog fight arena.

In short can the rational be stated and perhaps a scenario where devicelink can be enabled.

Or comon Ubisoft move with the times and release devicelink to the online community.

Salute!

OMK_Jacko

Junkers_Jack
02-12-2006, 05:06 AM
Ubisoft Folks,

There are a good number of players now interested in the use of devicelink for diy cockpit simulators to drive either actual istruments via an interface of graphics moved onto a client PC. In short an excellent feature.

However ONLY OFFLINE. In fact it seems a deliberate act to kill the capability for online play. I guess it is possible to have the feature online with a software mod.

To most this seems a daft thing, why has it been disabled. Is it really a cheat / unfair for some to use the feature and others who are not interested to not use it.
We don't limit TrackIR use could this be considered as unfair online for pilots to be able to use head motion especially in full cockpit. Oooh do I hear uproar from avid TrackIR fans after spending all that dosh he he. Yes I do use TrackIR. On the same tack force feedback gives very early warning of stall. Is it fair for one to have it and not another.

We all know that offline shooting up AI is not the same as online with human opponents I would be very interested to see how differenly I handle the a/c via udpgraph log under online conditions.

There has been mention of allowing the sever to enable in which case suerely all servers would default to enable to enxourage all pilots to fly there. In which case client side would leave the choice to the individual. In any event its the pilot that counts a noob (with respect) can have all the high tech assistance but if can't peform the basics of ACM it won,t make a lot of difference he is dead very soon in the shark pool of online dog fight arena.

In short can the rational be stated and perhaps a scenario where devicelink can be enabled.

Or comon Ubisoft move with the times and release devicelink to the online community.

Salute!

OMK_Jacko

Junkers_Jack
02-13-2006, 09:06 AM
Bump

30 views and no comment

Willey
02-13-2006, 10:07 AM
Bump http://www.ubisoft.de/smileys/3.gif

Devicelink is hardly useful only offline.

AKA_TAGERT
02-13-2006, 10:18 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Junkers_Jack:
Ubisoft Folks,

There are a good number of players now interested in the use of devicelink for diy cockpit simulators to drive either actual istruments via an interface of graphics moved onto a client PC. In short an excellent feature.

However ONLY OFFLINE. In fact it seems a deliberate act to kill the capability for online play. I guess it is possible to have the feature online with a software mod.

To most this seems a daft thing, why has it been disabled. Is it really a cheat / unfair for some to use the feature and others who are not interested to not use it.
We don't limit TrackIR use could this be considered as unfair online for pilots to be able to use head motion especially in full cockpit. Oooh do I hear uproar from avid TrackIR fans after spending all that dosh he he. Yes I do use TrackIR. On the same tack force feedback gives very early warning of stall. Is it fair for one to have it and not another.

We all know that offline shooting up AI is not the same as online with human opponents I would be very interested to see how differenly I handle the a/c via udpgraph log under online conditions.

There has been mention of allowing the sever to enable in which case suerely all servers would default to enable to enxourage all pilots to fly there. In which case client side would leave the choice to the individual. In any event its the pilot that counts a noob (with respect) can have all the high tech assistance but if can't peform the basics of ACM it won,t make a lot of difference he is dead very soon in the shark pool of online dog fight arena.

In short can the rational be stated and perhaps a scenario where devicelink can be enabled.

Or comon Ubisoft move with the times and release devicelink to the online community.

Salute!

OMK_Jacko </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
For the standard set of gauges it is not a question of fairness, but more about ping.

This is based on ignorance IMHO.

DeviceLink can slow "your" connection down, but I have yet to see how that would effect he server. In that DeviceLink is NOT reading from the server, DeviceLink is reading from you PC network card. Therefore all the server would notice is your ping being lower that it would be with DeviceLink turned off. But, there are server tools to set a limit on ping already in place, so, that is not a valid argument.

It is the non standard gauges that people are concerned about. For example, using speed and alt I could make an "E" gauge. That is beyond the standard gauges that non-DeviceLink people have access to. Thus, you could call that a "cheat" IMHO.

"E" guage is just one example, there are others, AoA, TAS, etc.

Where as with TrackIR, you dont gain any extra viewing area. That is to say your NOT going to see something in TrackIR that people without TrackIR can not see. Thus TrackIR is not a cheat, just one of many ways to point and look.

ubi DeviceLink Thread (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/49310655/m/7201027043)

MrQBerrt
02-13-2006, 03:37 PM
I've thought about the extra gauge thing as well, but they could always add a few new data types to device link that contained only gauge info, and then have these available online with the rest of the non-gauge stuff still unavailable. That way, you couldn't get TAS, you could only get what your speedo was reading, and if your speedo was broken or off, you would get the no data or bad data.

I doubt Oleg wants to do this much work though, and so the simplist sol'n for him would be to just turn it on as is.

AKA_TAGERT
02-13-2006, 04:53 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MrQBerrt:
I've thought about the extra gauge thing as well, but they could always add a few new data types to device link that contained only gauge info, and then have these available online with the rest of the non-gauge stuff still unavailable. That way, you couldn't get TAS, you could only get what your speedo was reading, and if your speedo was broken or off, you would get the no data or bad data. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>I think you missuderstood what I said.. There are no EXTRA gauges in DeviceLink. That is to say there is NO "E" gauge. But I could make an "E" guage out of two DeviceLink gauges, i.e. IAS and ALTITUDE. So the only way to keep someone from making an "E" gauge is to remove the IAS and ALT gauges, Two very basic gauges, if removed kind of makes the whole thing worthless.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MrQBerrt:
I doubt Oleg wants to do this much work though, and so the simplist sol'n for him would be to just turn it on as is. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>It has been a few years since this topic came up, but, from what I understand is once the server enables "it", that allows the clients to make use of thier DeviceLink data, where some of the online variables are disabled. I have never seen a list of what is or is not aval online, heck he devicelink.txt file does not go into great detail. Long story short, people using devicelink could make guages E, AoA, TAS that normal people dont have.. thus the while cheat lable.

Junkers_Jack
02-14-2006, 05:59 AM
AKA_TAGERT

From what I can see devicelink is only restricting the read out of instruments as the virtual cockpit application lets you drive selection of flaps, prop pitch etc from a client pc.

I think the term "server" confused me (my fault) with a dedicated server. Deviclink only reports from the pc running IL2 i.e the host so if you joined an online server even if it did not have devicelink enabled then virtual pilot would still work. I'll check what the dedicated OMK_Server has in the config.ini and see if its the case.


In any event the discussion has helped me understand a possible angle on why not to enable devicelink fully for online use

Willey
02-14-2006, 06:44 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by AKA_TAGERT:
It is the non standard gauges that people are concerned about. For example, using speed and alt I could make an "E" gauge. That is beyond the standard gauges that non-DeviceLink people have access to. Thus, you could call that a "cheat" IMHO. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have no Track IR - so it's a cheat that others have it? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

AKA_TAGERT
02-14-2006, 08:23 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Junkers_Jack:
AKA_TAGERT

From what I can see devicelink is only restricting the read out of instruments as the virtual cockpit application lets you drive selection of flaps, prop pitch etc from a client pc.

I think the term "server" confused me (my fault) with a dedicated server. Deviclink only reports from the pc running IL2 i.e the host so if you joined an online server even if it did not have devicelink enabled then virtual pilot would still work. I'll check what the dedicated OMK_Server has in the config.ini and see if its the case.


In any event the discussion has helped me understand a possible angle on why not to enable devicelink fully for online use </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Ah, ok, I heard once that the server had to enable *it* for anything to work.. But, like I said the devicelink.txt is not all that telling.. So, all the buttons and switches work all the time and only the guages dont work online? My guess is they did that for the reasons I mentioned, or, like someone else pointed out.. maybe the devicelinkn gauges still work when the virtual cockpit gauges have been damaged?

AKA_TAGERT
02-14-2006, 08:24 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Willey:
I have no Track IR - so it's a cheat that others have it? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Nope. Like I said, TrackIR does NOT give you views that other people dont have, it is just a diferent way to point.

MrQBerrt
02-15-2006, 11:36 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I think you missuderstood what I said.. There are no EXTRA gauges in DeviceLink. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Nah, I think you misunderstood me. I realize there are no extra gauges in DeviceLink. However you can get extra INFORMATION that is not available to a real-life pilot. Roll-Rate, Energy, TAS can all qualify as such, but also IAS, temp, etc if the gauges are broken in the in-game cockpit. So, I was suggesting, that if Oleg considers the online availability of this info as a cheat, then he could post only the info that you get from in the cockpit. So, if you could see the speedometer needle in your cockpit pointing to 155 mph, you would get a value from devicelink that said 155 mph, but you couldn't get anything that was not displayed directly on your cockpit.
Savy?

Jetbuff
02-15-2006, 12:03 PM
I may be wrong but I suspect DeviceLink is disabled for offline because of it's 'put' features rather than the 'get' functionality. i.e. you could write elaborate stall recovery programs, autopilots, etc. using DeviceLink. I suspect that if DeviceLink could be only partially activated (only acquiry of data allowed instead of two-way communication) it wouldn't be as much of a problem.