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Insuber
06-30-2007, 02:24 PM
Hi,

A friend asked me today if there is any FW190 still flying today. I don't mean a replica but a restored original WWII bird. I couldn't answer him, but I'm pretty sure that there aren't. Coul anyone confirm it?

Regards,
Insuber

PS: my father told me that once he saw a FW190 in a small airport in Switzerland in the 70's or 80's; the mechanic told him that it was flown ny a German ex-pilot, but I'm not so sure of the identification as FW190 ...

Insuber
06-30-2007, 02:24 PM
Hi,

A friend asked me today if there is any FW190 still flying today. I don't mean a replica but a restored original WWII bird. I couldn't answer him, but I'm pretty sure that there aren't. Coul anyone confirm it?

Regards,
Insuber

PS: my father told me that once he saw a FW190 in a small airport in Switzerland in the 70's or 80's; the mechanic told him that it was flown ny a German ex-pilot, but I'm not so sure of the identification as FW190 ...

berg417448
06-30-2007, 02:35 PM
This one is restored and flying but IIRC it uses a Russian engine:

http://www.flugwerk.de/fw190.shtm

Insuber
06-30-2007, 02:43 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by berg417448:
This one is restored and flying but IIRC it uses a Russian engine:

http://www.flugwerk.de/fw190.shtm </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm afraid it's a modern replica, as the /N code intends, isn'it? I knew that the only original part is the tailwheel, since they found a cache of them somewhere, but maybe I'm wrong.

Regards,
Insuber

Jaws2002
06-30-2007, 02:48 PM
There's no FW-190 flying today but there's one in flying condition. The D13 from Seatle:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v258/&lt;FA&gt;Jaws/0622703.jpg
There are now two FW-190's from JG5 being restored, in quite advanced stage, that if we are lucky, we could soon see at airshows. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif
They are being restored by White 1 foundation (http://www.white1foundation.org/)

One is the White 1, a FW-190 F8:
http://white1foundation.org/giftshopimages/tullis_profile.jpg

The other one is Black 3, a FW-190 :

http://www.white1foundation.org/photos/Black3/B3model1.jpg

If all works out well White 1 foundation (http://www.white1foundation.org/)

may bring few more Foke Wulfs to life. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

Kettenhunde
06-30-2007, 02:51 PM
Ours will be flying by 2009. Sooner if you donate!

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

There is a members section on our website that has more pictures, we post original documents, and articles about the aircrafts development/history.

You can only access it by joining.

Click on the link in my signature.

All the best,

Crumpp

Xiolablu3
06-30-2007, 02:52 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ZTxI8nYpzw

Kettenhunde
06-30-2007, 02:52 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">The other one is Black 3: </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks for the plug, Jaws!

We are restoring Black 3 to static display condition for the Norwegians.

It will not fly.

All the best,

Crumpp

Jaws2002
06-30-2007, 02:58 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Kettenhunde:
Ours will be flying by 2009. Sooner if you donate!

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Crumpp </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

I wasn't hoping she'll fly that soon.
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

My membership expired this month. I better go and renew it right now and try to help a little. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Xiolablu3
06-30-2007, 03:05 PM
Crumpp, you should put a forum on White 1's site so people can chat and talk babout FW190s.

Wouod be great to have all FW190 fans togther and pooling info on the planes.

Jaws2002
06-30-2007, 03:07 PM
There's one: http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

http://www.white1foundation.org/phpbb/index.php

Kettenhunde
06-30-2007, 03:15 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">My membership expired this month. I better go and renew it right now and try to help a little. Smile </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Better get it in Jaws!! Thanks for your help, we couldn't do it without guys like you.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

I have to get off my butt and scan the documents for the new article. I finally finished documenting the development of the BMW801 boost systems. I think you will enjoy it.

The commander of one of the units that test flew some of the engine developments lives in Florida, btw.

All the best,

Crumpp

Xiolablu3
06-30-2007, 03:17 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jaws2002:
There's one: http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

http://www.white1foundation.org/phpbb/index.php </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Ahh sorry, somehow I missed it!

Jaws2002
06-30-2007, 03:32 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Kettenhunde:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">My membership expired this month. I better go and renew it right now and try to help a little. Smile </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Better get it in Jaws!! Thanks for your help, we couldn't do it without guys like you.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif



Crumpp </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Got it. check PM pls.

Insuber
06-30-2007, 03:55 PM
So, 20'000 built, some 30 static survivors, none flying ... so sad.

Insuber

Xiolablu3
06-30-2007, 04:22 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jaws2002:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Kettenhunde:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">My membership expired this month. I better go and renew it right now and try to help a little. Smile </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Better get it in Jaws!! Thanks for your help, we couldn't do it without guys like you.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif



Crumpp </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Got it. check PM pls. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


I have been trying to drag Crumpp for a 'fun night' with us on Ukded2 one night, Jaws.

See if you can twist his arm a bit more. It would be cool to all fly Fw190A4's togther vs some Spitfires. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Jaws2002
06-30-2007, 05:34 PM
Won't be easy to find Spit pilots. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

Kettenhunde
06-30-2007, 05:55 PM
Thanks for the invite. Maybe we can do it next week.

All the best,

Crumpp

polak5
06-30-2007, 07:43 PM
werent they working on the WHite1 here in texas at one point but then moved to FL?

Manu-6S
07-01-2007, 03:41 AM
Thks for the D13'image Jaws: it's now my new wallpaper... wonderful... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/heart.gif

Manu-6S
07-01-2007, 03:51 AM
I fell in love...

http://www.cebudanderson.com/yellow10.htm

Ratsack
07-01-2007, 03:53 AM
There's an Fw 190 A-5 being restored in the UK, too. It came out of Russia, and the airframe is mostly complete already.

cheers,
Ratsack

Insuber
07-01-2007, 07:09 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Manu-6S:
I fell in love...

http://www.cebudanderson.com/yellow10.htm </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Awesome pictures, what a beauty ... thanks for sharing Manu!.

Insuber

Manu-6S
07-01-2007, 07:25 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Insuber:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Manu-6S:
I fell in love...

http://www.cebudanderson.com/yellow10.htm </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Awesome pictures, what a beauty ... thanks for sharing Manu!.

Insuber </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

I read that D13 made a simulated dogfight against a TempestV: a german D9's pilot againt a canadian pilot, and the conclusion was that only pilot's skill could decide the battle.

mynameisroland
07-01-2007, 07:56 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Manu-6S:
I read that D13 made a simulated dogfight against a TempestV: a german D9's pilot againt a canadian pilot, and the conclusion was that only pilot's skill could decide the battle. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


So where does that leave the poor old D9 ?

Ratsack
07-01-2007, 08:00 AM
Isn't the D-13 the same as the D-9 except for firepower? (I know I'll be expelled from the Fw 190 fan club for saying this, but I've always preferred the look of the A series...never been that interested in Doras).

cheers,
Ratsack

mynameisroland
07-01-2007, 08:07 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ratsack:
Isn't the D-13 the same as the D-9 except for firepower? (I know I'll be expelled from the Fw 190 fan club for saying this, but I've always preferred the look of the A series...never been that interested in Doras).

cheers,
Ratsack </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

IIRC D13 has a better engine, the Jumo 213 C which produced almost 2250 HP - more than the 213A.

Kettenhunde
07-01-2007, 09:05 AM
The FW190D13 was heavier and the power production below 6000meters was ~same as the Jumo 213A.

Major differences were the supercharger and the ability to mount a motor cannon.

I agree with you Ratsack, the Antons are my favorite too.

All the best,

Crumpp

mynameisroland
07-01-2007, 10:20 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Kettenhunde:
The FW190D13 was heavier and the power production below 6000meters was ~same as the Jumo 213A. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

What altitude did the 213A produce 2250 PS Crummp?

"n Flensburg she received the provisorical transition number ˜USA 14' and should be transported to the USA.Meanwhile some RAF - members came to the idea to organize a testflight between a British Hawker Tempest and a German FW 190 ˜ Langnase ˜(longnose) .They organized a German pilot , the commander of JG 51, Major Heinz Lange and some ground crew from a nearby prison camp. The weapons were removed (why ...... ;o) and the plane was fitted with fuel for about half an hour. Everybody was keen to see a dogfight under equal circumstances - one against the other - to get some more information about the quality of the different planes .....

The ˜ dogfight ˜ took place at an altitude of round about 3000 Meters (9800 ft) and showed, that the two planes were nearly matching each other.It looked, that in this case, the quality of the pilot was the most important thing. At that day, the German pilot proved to be the better one and forced the Tempest into a position which would have sent her down, if he would have been equipt and willing to do so. After this happened, there was some kind of discussion between the English and German observers ....."

If the Fw 190 D13 was flying with no ammo/guns ? and only 30 min fuel it would perform better than one would in normal combat config ? Also 3000m seems like a strange height for the Tempest to fight at - right on supercharger switch height.

Kettenhunde
07-01-2007, 11:09 AM
The motors had similar power production. The FW190D13 was better armed for similar performance. The FW-190D13 was heavier than the Dora.

http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/503_1183309483_jumo213athp.jpg

http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/503_1183309521_jumo213f.jpg

http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/503_1183309502_fw190d13placard.jpg

All the best,

Crumpp

mynameisroland
07-01-2007, 11:36 AM
Crummp the data seems to be for the Jumo 213 A and then the Jumo 213 F ? Is there any mention of the C there?

Also what weight is the D13 compared to the D9 - I have read they are apporximately the same weight. And how would the D13 in the test vs the Tempest be heavier than a normal D9 if its weapons were removed and its fuel was set to 30 minutes?

Kettenhunde
07-01-2007, 11:41 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">f the Fw 190 D13 was flying with no ammo/guns ? and only 30 min fuel it would perform better than one would in normal combat config ? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

IIRC they just removed the ammunition but left the guns.

I imagine that puts the FW-190D13 in the same vicinity as the Dora-9 for weight purposes.

I will look in the ladeplan's to confirm the weight.

The Jumo 213C was the Jumo 213A with peripherals rearranged to allow a motor cannon installation.

Interestingly enough, some of the MW50 endurance testing of Jumo series shows the Jumo 213A producing more power than the Jumo 213E at the same altitudes. It just cannot produce it at the higher altitudes due to the supercharger.

All the best,

Crumpp

Kettenhunde
07-01-2007, 12:16 PM
I still have to dig out the ladeplans. Busy with other things so I will get them later.

IIRC the FW190D13 is ~240Kg heavier than the FW-190D9 at Take Off weight. Given the fact "Yellow 10" is an R11 variant it will be heavier than a normal fighter too.

All the best,

Crumpp

Kettenhunde
07-02-2007, 09:51 AM
I don't have ladeplan for the FW901D13 only for the prototypes.

I do have a considerable amount of flight testing on the production machines that list a weight of 4550Kg for the FW-190D13..

The same test flights list the Dora weights as 4100Kg.

Looking at that fact the FW-190D13 was the heavier aircraft and has similar power to the Dora 9 I would have to conclude the test is probably well within the ballpark of relative performance for the FW-190D9 vs Tempest. Especially considering the FW190D13 flew in a lightened condition for the test

IIRC the aircraft was serviced by German crews and was certainly flown by a German pilot. This is probably one of the more representative anecdotes of the war IMHO.

The largest factor for the weight is fuel. Fuel consumption can range from about 25gph to almost 200gph between economy cruise and Emergency power.

What was the yardstick for the 30 min of flight?

10 minutes of combat is almost an hour of cruise flight.

5 minutes of combat is about 30 minutes of fuel at cruise. From the description of the maneuvers I would think they fought in mock combat for more than 5 minutes. Of course the FW190D13 might not have used it's combat rating at all.

Fuel capacity is also the largest weight variable. The reasonable effect though is it will vary the weight slightly above, equal or slightly below the FW-190D9's take off weight depending on the flight profile they fueled the plane for it's 30 minites. Either way it is not going to grossly effect the outcome IMHO.

All the best,

Crumpp

faustnik
07-02-2007, 10:06 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mynameisroland:
<span class="ev_code_YELLOW">It looked, that in this case, the quality of the pilot was the most important thing</span>. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It amazes me how people force themselves to ignore this, and search for anyway to say that their favorite (or really any a/c from their country of origin)was superior.