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boohaa
11-20-2004, 01:53 PM
I like to play alot offline.Setting up realistic matches between planes and then using the strength of given plane to defeat opponent.

I had gotten so fed up with Forgotten battles though in that all the planes seemed the same to me.Was the reason I stopped playing.Many people on here said that you have to play online in order to get the correct FM's for individual planes.

What I am asking here...did PF get a change in AI so that the planes now use the correect FM.
It seems so but then exact next mission a Zero was zoom climbing with my corsair???

VW-IceFire
11-20-2004, 03:07 PM
You can't actually have the AI run with the same FM system that human pilots do. Simply, you, I, and everyone else does not have the computer system to handle an AI sophisticated enough to fly, fight, aim, and use tactics under the same FM considerations that humans do.

So what you're asking for is essentially impossible these days. AI is still a new science...I've read some research journals on AI doing work for a few essays and the simple fact that game AI like the ones in Pacific Fighters operate at all is a wonder.

That all said, I believe, and others have noticed, that the AI in PF is more aware, more random, behaves more like humans (makes mistakes). But its not perfect and it suffers from some of the same flaws.

boohaa
11-20-2004, 04:03 PM
Thanks Icefire,I appreciate your comments but I dont think your correct.Racing sims have AI that use the same physics as the player so why not a Flight sim.If we believe what you just said then we should expect the same AI for BOB.That would really suck as the AI are what most people fight against in all of Oleg's sims.

I really hope that Oleg not only increases the physics but the AI to a better degree than we have now.

Oh well I guess its back to onlinehttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gifhttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

LEXX_Luthor
11-20-2004, 09:22 PM
Don't feel bad. When you race you are against how many opponents? In flight sim you have no limit to the number of opponents except as limited by AMD/Intel. Also, flying in 3D air combat is much harder to program than racing on 2D surface which is mostly linear stuff.

clint-ruin
11-20-2004, 09:53 PM
Racing sims use the full player-physics model for all AI cars all the way around? Really? Which game is that and why are they burning that much CPU time doing something so completely pointless?

Think of it like this - when you pull the trigger and fire your guns, the game is not literally calculating the round being set off, the force of the round being pushed out of the casing and through the rifling, the individual atoms pushed aside as the round flys to the target, or doing full physics based magic bullet modelling once it hits something. Neither are the FMs generated in realtime for all possible surface positions and engine output and the drag caused by the single .303 round that hit the tailplane an hour ago. It's all a bunch of limited precomputed states with the players input fed into it. Different elements are switched on and off as needed. The trick is to make what you can precompute as realistic or as entertaining as possible, and save your [very, very limited] power for things that absolutely have to be calculated right that second. PF is actually pretty bad in this respect - there's a lot it could switch off or fake, but doesn't, doing it in realtime instead [tracking/consistency issues and the freefloating camera probably play a part here]. Not much of a problem until you push the number of objects that are interacting with each other at one time, but if you do, it gets ugly.

Every game hides what it can with smoke and mirrors, and hopes the player never notices the code behind the curtain. If you play Il-2 for years on end, eventually you will learn to predict what it does - whether it's flying a plane or dropping a bomb or fighting the AI. It's good that you do notice, otherwise you might have foetal alcohol syndrome or something.

I would suggest a similar approach to FM discussions if you want to improve the AI. Name what you think is the problem and what you would do to prevent it from occuring. If the FM discusions make your head spin around, the AI ones are unlikely to be much kinder to your brain.

Bearcat99
11-20-2004, 09:54 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by boohaa:
Thanks Icefire,I appreciate your comments but I dont think your correct.Racing sims have AI that use the same physics as the player so why not a Flight sim.If we believe what you just said then we should expect the same AI for BOB.That would really suck as the AI are what most people fight against in all of Oleg's sims.

I really hope that Oleg not only increases the physics but the AI to a better degree than we have now.
Oh well I guess its back to onlinehttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gifhttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The difference between racing AI and flight sim AI is that racing AI is operating in 2 dimensions basically with acceleration and deceleration.... on the ground. Flight sim AI has pitch,roll,yaw,climb,airspeed,weapon load outs,climb,dive,accelerate decelerate and a slew of other factors that are just not in racing sims, (everything that is in racing sims and THEN some) factors that cannot be easily duplicated to the same extent that human pilots do. BoB will have better AI count on it.. if for no other reason that when it is released there will be advances in computing and coding..but it still wont be as good as a human pilot. I think the best thing about the AI in this sim is that you can mix them up... and if youare so good that you can routinely take out enemy AI on ace in thsi sim then you need to up the odds a bit. Go 3:1 odds against you or 4:1......

VW-IceFire
11-20-2004, 11:03 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by boohaa:
Thanks Icefire,I appreciate your comments but I dont think your correct.Racing sims have AI that use the same physics as the player so why not a Flight sim.If we believe what you just said then we should expect the same AI for BOB.That would really suck as the AI are what most people fight against in all of Oleg's sims.

I really hope that Oleg not only increases the physics but the AI to a better degree than we have now.

Oh well I guess its back to onlinehttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gifhttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Gotta keep in mind that racing sims don't have the same level of complexity required for the AI. Two dimensions, no gunnery, no air combat manuvers, no real need for sophisticated evasive tactics, no rear gunners, and no massed formations of bombers. I admit that they still need alot of AI behind their cars too but I'm fairly certain the proportion of CPU time spent on their AI is less.

As for BoB, I expect better. Faster computers means better AI. Oleg was also talking about scalled AI with different levels of priority being assigned based on players perspective in the single player game (i.e. distance). Presumably so you can do 100-150 He-111's attacking London without the choking of computer.

I play offline alot myself...and I find the experience challenging and fun most of the time. I build my own missions most of the time and I do spend time to make sure the AI is where I want them to be. Once that happens, its good fun. But I admit sometimes they are stupid or predictable and thats the way it is right now in my view...to each is own http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Enjoy the game as best you can.