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Manu-6S
09-23-2007, 06:43 AM
Because Italians do it better http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

F1 World Champion
http://www.ferrariworld.com/images/f1-2007/photo/070007pre_558x372.jpg

MotoGP World Champion
http://www.traffyk.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/04/stoner500.jpg

German Report on Serie 5:
Macchi 205: Average
Reggiane 2005: Good
Fiat G55: EXCELLENT

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat_G.55

Manu-6S
09-23-2007, 06:43 AM
Because Italians do it better http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

F1 World Champion
http://www.ferrariworld.com/images/f1-2007/photo/070007pre_558x372.jpg

MotoGP World Champion
http://www.traffyk.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/04/stoner500.jpg

German Report on Serie 5:
Macchi 205: Average
Reggiane 2005: Good
Fiat G55: EXCELLENT

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat_G.55

Kurfurst__
09-23-2007, 06:55 AM
You might want to check my site in the near future for those tactical trials at 'E'-Stelle Guedonia'. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Manu-6S
09-23-2007, 07:00 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Kurfurst__:
You might want to check my site in the near future for those tactical trials at 'E'-Stelle Guedonia'. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Of course mate http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Xiolablu3
09-23-2007, 09:36 AM
Italians do it better?

In the Desert 250,000 Italians vs 30,000 British/Canadians/Aussies/NZ and the Italians were hammered.



In Malta around 30 biplanes and then 20-30 SPitfires kept the whole Italian Air Force at bay and they had to call in the Luftwaffe to try and do the job.


Its no good having a few prototypes of a good plane if your soldiers/pilots are so useless and change sides/give up the moment the pressure is on!!

'East Africa

1941 Jan. 19 - British captured Kassala and retook Eritrea in East Africa from Mussolini.
1941 Feb. 22 - British colonial troops from Kenya captured Mogadishu and took Italian Somaliland, and retook British Somaliland by Feb. 25.
1941 Apr. 6 - British captured Addis Ababa and retook Ethiopia and put Hailie Selassie back on the throne.
1941 May 16 - The last Italian troops surrendered, after losing 420,000 killed or captured, to the British losses of 3,100'

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/halo.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Manu-6S
09-23-2007, 10:11 AM
Xiola, leaving all the reference to italian losses (you should study the reasons too... your statements are too semplicistic) I think you totally missed the meaning of the thread http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Ferrari and Ducati are little factories, with few workers, that produce few but excellent machines... like Italian industries in the late war...

Kurfurst__
09-23-2007, 11:11 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
Italians do it better? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blush.gif

AKA_TAGERT
09-23-2007, 11:16 AM
Worst pizza I ever had was in Italy

Manu-6S
09-23-2007, 11:21 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by AKA_TAGERT:
Worst pizza I ever had was in Italy </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Probably it was your first REAL pizza... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Cajun76
09-23-2007, 11:36 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Manu-6S:
Xiola, leaving all the reference to italian losses (you should study the reasons too... your statements are too semplicistic) I think you totally missed the meaning of the thread http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Ferrari and Ducati are little factories, with few workers, that produce few but excellent machines... like Italian industries in the late war... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That is the point in regard to war machines. What good does it do to build a few good examples, especially when those examples are competitive, not dominant?

AKA_TAGERT
09-23-2007, 11:37 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Manu-6S:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by AKA_TAGERT:
Worst pizza I ever had was in Italy </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Probably it was your first REAL pizza... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>First and worst! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Manu-6S
09-23-2007, 11:53 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Cajun76:
That is the point in regard to war machines. What good does it do to build a few good examples, especially when those examples are competitive, not dominant? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Infact Italy couldn't win the war: good soldiers but old stuff (early war) and too few good stuff (late war).

The thread is not on Italy's war power, but on perfomance of the Italian products... even if in small number they were really good (the best of Axis according to Oberst Petersen).

I make it because today Ducati won the MotoGP Championship and 7 week before Ferrari won: certainly if all that counts is the number of machine, they can't compete against bigger industries.

WOLFPLAYER2007
09-23-2007, 12:36 PM
italian guns are very good, i have a Beretta 9mm and I can blow a tree to pieces with it.

What i most dislikes in italian stuff of ww2 are the tanks.

MEGILE
09-23-2007, 12:39 PM
I like Italian mountains.
And women ofcourse, but that goes without saying.

Skunk_438RCAF
09-23-2007, 12:46 PM
Why does it look exactly like a MC205?

anarchy52
09-23-2007, 12:50 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by AKA_TAGERT:
Worst pizza I ever had was in Italy </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I never thought that for once I will agree with tagert 100%...

Bremspropeller
09-23-2007, 12:58 PM
I'm glad, Tagert didn't ask for a coffee http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Manu-6S
09-23-2007, 02:42 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by anarchy52:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by AKA_TAGERT:
Worst pizza I ever had was in Italy </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I never thought that for once I will agree with tagert 100%... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh, now you guys are scaring me http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

In which city did you eat that pizza? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

Gitano1979
09-23-2007, 02:53 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by anarchy52:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by AKA_TAGERT:
Worst pizza I ever had was in Italy </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I never thought that for once I will agree with tagert 100%... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm sorry to say it guys... You found the classic tourist-trap http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Xiolablu3
09-23-2007, 03:29 PM
Apologies for my tongue in cheek post.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

It was a little payback for your constant 'Spitfire couldn't possibly be that good' sig.


I realise that the G55 was a great aeroplane, however I really dont believe it could possibly be THAT good... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

If its ever modelled in SOW, I will have a sig complaining about its bugs, just for you Manu http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Manu-6S
09-23-2007, 03:43 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
Apologies for my tongue in cheek post.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif Don't worry mate.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
It was a little payback for your constant 'Spitfire couldn't possibly be that good' sig.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Probably they really were good like ingame, I can admit it... I'm only pissed of our Antons aren't modelled correctly (you know, the accelleration problem http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif )... Look at my last post here:
http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/63110913/m/5501049975/p/2

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
I realise that the G55 was a great aeroplane, however I really dont believe it could possibly be THAT good... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I can't know it too... I base my words on the german test that Kurfy will provide in the next future (can't wait).

If they decided that G55 was the best Axis plane and to convert the german production, there must be something real... The problem was the build time, the double of a 109 build time, and german had no time.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
If its ever modelled in SOW, I will have a sig complaining about its bugs, just for you Manu http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Don't worry, I'll accept it... wishing that they will be positive bugs (but without bugs is better http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif )

BTW: you should know that my hate for Spits (ingame spits) is the only thing that keep me on this game.
Sometime I'm so pissed that I would uninstall all; but I can't live without killing some Spits every week.

Cajun76
09-23-2007, 09:07 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Manu-6S:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Cajun76:
That is the point in regard to war machines. What good does it do to build a few good examples, especially when those examples are competitive, not dominant? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Infact Italy couldn't win the war: good soldiers but old stuff (early war) and too few good stuff (late war).

The thread is not on Italy's war power, but on perfomance of the Italian products... even if in small number they were really good (the best of Axis according to Oberst Petersen).

I make it because today Ducati won the MotoGP Championship and 7 week before Ferrari won: certainly if all that counts is the number of machine, they can't compete against bigger industries. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

With the racing stuff I see your point. A small, dedicated shop can put out some amazing products. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

However, on the war front, I must disagree. Take swords for example. You can invest a month and make the finest sword ever made. Skills being equal between combatants, I'll take 10 guys with rusty pipes vs one with a samurai sword. And so in a war of attrition, it makes little difference to build the best Axis fighter of the war if you only have 150 or so. Same goes for fighters like the Ta-152, Do-335 or XP-72. Great designs, but not a factor.

Manu-6S
09-24-2007, 12:55 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Cajun76:
However, on the war front, I must disagree. Take swords for example. You can invest a month and make the finest sword ever made. Skills being equal between combatants, I'll take 10 guys with rusty pipes vs one with a samurai sword. And so in a war of attrition, it makes little difference to build the best Axis fighter of the war if you only have 150 or so. Same goes for fighters like the Ta-152, Do-335 or XP-72. Great designs, but not a factor. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

But I agreed with you in my post above http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Kurfurst__
09-24-2007, 02:10 AM
A bit of a teaser http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif


III. Taktish - technische Gegenüberstellung.

Von den 4 Flugzeugen, die am Vergleich beteiligt waren, ist die
Fiat G 55 in der Beurteilung so gut, daß eine taktisch-techni-
sche Gegenüberstellung erfordlich ist:

Die Vorteile der Fiat G 55 sind : Größere Fläche, besseres Seiten-
verhältnis, geringere Flächenbelastung (175 kg pro qm). Verglei-
che Bf 109 G 4 = 195 kg pro qm und Fw 190 A 5 = 210 Kg pro qm.
Hierdurch erhält das Flugzeug bessere Eigenschaften, die sich
auswirken in größere Gipfelhöhe, bessere Kurvenwendigkeit und
bessere Steigleistung in der Höhe. Letztere erscheint nicht
ganz zutreffend, da die Leistungbelastung höher ist als bei
der Bf 109 G 4.

Ein weiterer Vorteil ist der Waffeneinbau. Die z.Zt. vorhandene
Bewaffnung von 4 12,7 mm MG und 1 151/20 Kanone (200 Schuß),
die zentral im Rumpf angeornet sind, haben auch einen ausrei-
chenden Munitionsvorrat, je 360 Scuß. Die Bewaffnung der Bf 109
G 4 degegen mit 1 151/20 Kanone und 2 7,9 mm MG mit je 500
Schuß ist als viel zu gering zu bezeichnen. In der Weiterent-
wicklung sind 3 151/20 Kanonen und 2 12,7 mm MG vorgesehen.
Diese Bewaffnung ist sehr gut und wird erreicht, ohne daß die
Fligerischen Eigenschaften und Leistungen so start beeindträch-
tigt werden, wie es z.Zt. bei den deutschen Jagdflugzeugen durch
Anbau der Rüstsätze der fall ist.

Die Fligerischen Eigenschaften sind nicht so gut wie bei der
Bf 109 G 4 und der Fw 190 A 5. Die Sichtverhältnisse sind etwas
schlechter als bei der Bf 109 G 4 und der Fw 190 A 5. Ein wesent-
licher Nachteil der Fiat G 55 gegenüber den deutschen Jagdflug-
zeugen ist die Ungeeignetheit für den Jaboeinsatz. Dieser darf
nich ausseracht gelassen werden, da an allen Fronten der Jabo-
einsatz in den Vordergrund getreten ist.

Als Vorteil der Fiat G 55 erscheint, daß die Zelle für den
Einbau des DB 605 sehr geeignet ist. Damit tritt eine erhebliche
Leistungsteigerung ein und der vorhandene Nachteil, daß sie
in der Geschwindigkeit unterlegen ist (ca 25 km pro Stunde Lang-
samer als Bf 109 G 4 und Fw 190 A 5) wird überholt. Es kommt
hinzu, daß das Flugzeug zusätlich eine 3 cm Kanone auf-nimmt.

Zussammenfassund ist also festzustellen:

Die Fiat G 55 ist den deutschen Jägern ebenbürtig n der Steig-
Höhenleistung, überlegen in der Bewaffnung und Reichweite,
unterlagen in der Geschwindigkeit (z.Zt. 25 km/h), wobei zu
berücksichtigen ist, daß der ital. DB 605 100 PS weniger
leistet.

Da nach Angabe des Konstrukteurs, der DB 603 ohne wesentlichen
Umbauten gezw. Änderungen einzubauen geht, gewinnt bereits unter
Berücksichtung der derzeitigen Leistungen das Flugzeug sehr an
Interesse, da es mit dem DB 603 allen derzeitigen Jägern in je-
der Hinsicht überlegen wäre.

Manu-6S
09-24-2007, 02:40 AM
@Kurfurst:
Very interesting, thanks mate. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

LW_lcarp
09-24-2007, 06:47 AM
Had an Itailian pizza in germany once.

And didnt the Ferrari team struggle alot with its designs till Schuie signed with em. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/mockface.gif