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Xabre_361st1956
08-23-2005, 11:31 AM
Ok.....the admistrator finnally closed the "dissapointment of the complete IL2 series...T.G. for that...it was becoming a pissing match!
Now for my next topic.
CHIVALRY DURING THE ETO!
I was flying a DF server yesterday and of of course I was trying to land my severly shot up la7 my wheels were down on the ground and some guy comes whizzing down and flames me about halfway down the runway. I emmediately told him that he had no sense of honor..he chats back and said there was no chivalry during WWII.....WRONG as a matter of fact there was lots especially during the Battle of Britain.
As a matter fact Hitler had given direct orders to Goering and stated that if an Allied pilot bailed that all Luftwaffe pilots were to straffe said pilot on the way down or the pilot who brought down said Spit or Hurri would be shot upon arriving back at his base.It is true that some Luftwaffe pilots who did straffe were in fact black balled by the units or asked to transfer to another squad. Many pilots frowned on unsportsman like conduct ; why becuase the vast majority of Luftwaffe pilots had a deep sense of honor as well as the British pilots..it is well known that if a enemy pilot was shot down that many pilots both British and German would, if possible make sure the downed pilot survived his bail,in some cases the winning pilot would either fly low and slow or come down and dip his wings in solute to the downed pilot .
it is also fact the in some rare cases pilots recognising the soluting pilots markings, or downed pilots markings in a sorte later in the week or month would solute each other and then square off and go at it again or would not fight each other at all.
It is also true that some pilots who survived the war which were few I might add, became fast friends.
So no chivalry ......there was plenty of it in the first year or so of the War.
As we no the PTO was a whole differant story.

X

Xabre_361st1956
08-23-2005, 11:31 AM
Ok.....the admistrator finnally closed the "dissapointment of the complete IL2 series...T.G. for that...it was becoming a pissing match!
Now for my next topic.
CHIVALRY DURING THE ETO!
I was flying a DF server yesterday and of of course I was trying to land my severly shot up la7 my wheels were down on the ground and some guy comes whizzing down and flames me about halfway down the runway. I emmediately told him that he had no sense of honor..he chats back and said there was no chivalry during WWII.....WRONG as a matter of fact there was lots especially during the Battle of Britain.
As a matter fact Hitler had given direct orders to Goering and stated that if an Allied pilot bailed that all Luftwaffe pilots were to straffe said pilot on the way down or the pilot who brought down said Spit or Hurri would be shot upon arriving back at his base.It is true that some Luftwaffe pilots who did straffe were in fact black balled by the units or asked to transfer to another squad. Many pilots frowned on unsportsman like conduct ; why becuase the vast majority of Luftwaffe pilots had a deep sense of honor as well as the British pilots..it is well known that if a enemy pilot was shot down that many pilots both British and German would, if possible make sure the downed pilot survived his bail,in some cases the winning pilot would either fly low and slow or come down and dip his wings in solute to the downed pilot .
it is also fact the in some rare cases pilots recognising the soluting pilots markings, or downed pilots markings in a sorte later in the week or month would solute each other and then square off and go at it again or would not fight each other at all.
It is also true that some pilots who survived the war which were few I might add, became fast friends.
So no chivalry ......there was plenty of it in the first year or so of the War.
As we no the PTO was a whole differant story.

X

9th_Spitin
08-23-2005, 11:43 AM
I agree with some of what you say, but, the part about you landing and being shot, come on now. It's not that you were in a chute drifting onto the runway, you were flying. They did not wave off an attack on a landing plane and salute the other, they went for the kill and took out the enemy threat to obtain air superiority.

I can remember back in the CFS2 days that some servers had rules of Wheels down=SAFE, but have not seen that in IL2. And no vulching is for spawning planes so they can have a chance to get moving, not landing.

If you don't want to get shot when landing, then don't land when being followed or just stay away from DF servers.

faustnik
08-23-2005, 12:06 PM
Wrong forum.

RAF74_Poker
08-23-2005, 12:11 PM
Honor on a d/f server .... my pipedream:
A/ 1 pass on the enemy airbase ... no perching (perching is sitting up high and constantly attacking planes taking off .. different from my definition of vulching.....1 pass = vulch, 2+ passes = perching)
B/ no chute shooting
C/ once defeated, drop gear and flaps, turn on navs .. that means you are done, and leaving the fight. This means you leave and RTB .. no raising gear and rejoining once out from the defensive position. Anyone w/ navs on, gear down is considered a non combattant.
D/ Kills are team oriented ... use comms and coordinate because it really doesn't matter who gets the kill.
E/ No smack talk ... people know who the team players are ... there's no need to toot your own horn. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
F/ Be gracious in victory and defeat.

Feel free to add more ideas ... after all, it is only a pipedream ! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Reality: Kill 'em all, let God sort 'em out. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Xabre_361st1956
08-23-2005, 12:14 PM
Ya missed the point completely...I was talking about rare cases of Chivalry,between the RAF and the Luftwaffe.
I for one do not shot strcken planes that have landed and are halfway down the runway,especialy when the server rules say not too and he's got Navs,landing lights,flaps down gear down im thinkin he's done for that sorte...leave the guy alone...if the rules say kill everyone and everything then thats differant...I still wouldnt straffe a landed plane...anyway cause to me that does not show skill in flying.
Guys that like doing that are looking to get team killed....which is a good thing cause there are most deserving of being flamed on a regular basis.
X

Hoarmurath
08-23-2005, 12:16 PM
There is a general discussion forum. Your post should be at home in it.

So as to your knowledge of ww2 history, it seem to be on a par with your military rank. It is virtual.

Xabre_361st1956
08-23-2005, 12:24 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Hoarmurath:
There is a general discussion forum. Your post should be at home in it.

So as to your knowledge of ww2 history, it seem to be on a par with your military rank. It is virtual. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Wow Man you are some kinda harsh...why are you so insulting,and my knowlegde of military history in pretty darn good for your information....as far as my military history I read it in "The Gathering Storm" by Winston Churchill
who would probably know about Chivalry better than both you and I.
Oh...thats right guys like you dont really care about Military history you care about making someone else look ignorant....sorry my mistake.

X

WWMaxGunz
08-23-2005, 12:29 PM
What Faustnik said: Wrong Forum.

Xabre, you seem to get your history from sources... more sanitized for kids perhaps?
Very slanted to make rather than fit pictures.

What is this that Brits in parachutes were to be straffed or the LW pilot who shot them
down was to be executed? Yes I just went and re-read that in your original possibly soon
to be edited post and that's what it says. WIH do you get this stuff?

Please, stop the TROLLING.

Xabre_361st1956
08-23-2005, 01:22 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by WWMaxGunz:
What Faustnik said: Wrong Forum.

Xabre, you seem to get your history from sources... more sanitized for kids perhaps?
Very slanted to make rather than fit pictures.

What is this that Brits in parachutes were to be straffed or the LW pilot who shot them
down was to be executed? Yes I just went and re-read that in your original possibly soon
to be edited post and that's what it says. WIH do you get this stuff?

Please, stop the TROLLING. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I didnt realize I was trolling...To answer the question from the afforementioned book by Churchill...but you know what, it really doesnt matter,Im finding you jokers only pull what you think is relavent with out getting the real context of what I was saying...and then crapp all over it.
A couple of fellow flyers warned me that this is a regular ocurrance on this particular forum.
insults and inuendos are all you guys are capable of...pity.
All im guilty of is bringing up topics that I feel will enhance this forum....but of course there are people do not take the comments for face value....they use it as an excuse ...again
to make themselves feel like theyve done a one up on someone else....pathetic.
The fact is what I stated is true...for the time there was glimpses of chivalry by both the allied and axis forces during about th first 18 monthes of the war...which as the war progressed became more and more less previlant...until about the end of 1943 it became totally
barbaric, and all sides were showing no quarter on any front. in both the skies and on the ground. but I geuss my comments dont matter, fact or fiction ....Im just trolling ...sorry my mistake.

X

Ps I'll scan the text that I get all this misinformation from and then just copy it to this forum
and that way you guys wont have a reason to B**tch.....oh that wont work you would find a reason anyway.

Jetbuff
08-23-2005, 02:01 PM
Regardless of whether you were trolling or not or the validity of your information... WRONG FORUM DUDE! GD is over yonder... yep, right in the middle of that smoking crater over there.

Happy... whatever it is you're doing.

womenfly
08-23-2005, 02:48 PM
What about bombers bombing airfields with fighter escort.

Is it okay if the fighter straffe the airfield too? Shooting up planes and pilots running out to them? How about the defending fighters taking-off to attack the bombers ... is it okay to straffe them?

I do understand what you are saying .. pilot to pilot, air to air, but Chivalry, depends on the situation ... huh.

x__CRASH__x
08-23-2005, 03:06 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xabre_361st1956:
HOGAN!!!! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
http://www.lasvegasmercury.com/2005/MERC-Mar-17-Thu-2005/photos/guest.jpg

Stanger_361st
08-23-2005, 03:10 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by x__CRASH__x:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xabre_361st1956:
HOGAN!!!! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
http://www.lasvegasmercury.com/2005/MERC-Mar-17-Thu-2005/photos/guest.jpg </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

Man I loved that show.

Xabre_361st1956
08-23-2005, 03:23 PM
LOL outstanding! ILMAO.....Stop your killing me LOL

X

GBrutus
08-23-2005, 03:29 PM
Hitler ordered his pilots to strafe bailed airmen? Never heard of this before. I have read that Goering considered shooting bailed airmen during the Battle of Britain but this idea wasn't popular with the Luftwaffe. The reasoning was that a bailed RAF pilot (being over his own territory) could be up flying again while the German pilots would obviously become P.O.W's.

As for chivalry with regards to a computer game? I'm all for having a certain level of conduct on servers but to use the term 'chivalry' is a little pretentious for my liking.

Xabre_361st1956
08-23-2005, 03:32 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by womenfly:
What about bombers bombing airfields with fighter escort.

Is it okay if the fighter straffe the airfield too? Shooting up planes and pilots running out to them? How about the defending fighters taking-off to attack the bombers ... is it okay to straffe them?

I do understand what you are saying .. pilot to pilot, air to air, but Chivalry, depends on the situation ... huh. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
All im saying is this...is the server says vulching with bombs only then that is the rules.... just follow the rules its very simple.
Some pilots want to flame when ever and how ever they can... Im saying if a guy (or girl) is landing and everything indicates that the pilot is done for that sorte let the poor Bas88rd land. show a little class show a little honor, hell I usually will buzz the guy as low as possible to let him know that I had him if I wanted him but land get a new ride and I'll meet @ angels 20...that simple.

X

Hoarmurath
08-23-2005, 03:35 PM
Goering was against the idea. Old school you know, he was a fighter pilot in ww1.

I suggest you read Galland, this is where you will find a reference to this idea.

Xabre_361st1956
08-23-2005, 03:35 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by x__CRASH__x:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xabre_361st1956:
HOGAN!!!! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
http://www.lasvegasmercury.com/2005/MERC-Mar-17-Thu-2005/photos/guest.jpg </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Ya know the Luftwaffe uniform sure looked good....as a matter of fact I'd look great in that uniform...dont you think?

X

GBrutus
08-23-2005, 03:39 PM
Yes, I know goering wasn't too keen on it either but he still discussed the idea with his various unit commanders.

danjama
08-23-2005, 03:42 PM
didnt u guys read the title before u started jumping in and dissin mr X. Besides i thought the post was quite nice to think about. Give him a break.

GBrutus
08-23-2005, 03:43 PM
Is that Galland book, I believe it's called "The First and the Last", actually any good? A reviewer somewhere hinted that it was a little long-winded. Just wanted someones elses opinion as I nearly bought it last week but picked up Norbert Hannigs book instead.

Stanger_361st
08-23-2005, 03:43 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Hoarmurath:
Goering was against the idea. Old school you know, he was a fighter pilot in ww1.

I suggest you read Galland, this is where you will find a reference to this idea. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes I read about Galland the same. He was from the old school.

Oops I meant Goering

Hoarmurath
08-23-2005, 03:49 PM
i found Galland book very interesting.

Stanger_361st
08-23-2005, 04:06 PM
I think I read the same book. When I get home have to check. It was 4 years ago and really enjoyed the read.

Xabre_361st1956
08-23-2005, 05:09 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Stanger_361st:
I think I read the same book. When I get home have to check. It was 4 years ago and really enjoyed the read. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>I'll have find the book,Galland was a great pilot....is he still alive or did pass?
X

x__CRASH__x
08-23-2005, 05:24 PM
Passed several years ago.

Xabre_361st1956
08-23-2005, 05:29 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by GBrutus:
Hitler ordered his pilots to strafe bailed airmen? Never heard of this before. I have read that Goering considered shooting bailed airmen during the Battle of Britain but this idea wasn't popular with the Luftwaffe. The reasoning was that a bailed RAF pilot (being over his own territory) could be up flying again while the German pilots would obviously become P.O.W's.

As for chivalry with regards to a computer game? I'm all for having a certain level of conduct on servers but to use the term 'chivalry' is a little pretentious for my liking. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
OK there is some confusion as to what I said...let me clarify.
Orders came down from the Luftwaffe HQ that if an opportunity arose were a bailed British pilot could be straffed on his way down, the pilot was to do so. . There were ,however some pilots who did Straffe bailed pilots, but these pilots were Black balled by there own squad mates There was just no honor in killing a bailed pilot . Now this order stated that if any Luftwaffe had an opportunity to carry this order out...and DID NOT, they would be shot. of course the Luftwaffe pilots never reported each other.because they did not believe in this order...it was not honorable to shoot a bailed pilot on either side.This is what I meant by Chivalry.
I think this same kind of chivalry should carried over o the flight simm. wouldnt you agree?

X

GBrutus
08-23-2005, 05:54 PM
S! Xabre, I can't argue with you since I detest being shot in my 'chute online.

However, while a player has still to bail, everything else is fair game. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Hoarmurath
08-23-2005, 06:21 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xabre_361st1956:
OK there is some confusion as to what I said...let me clarify.
Orders came down from the Luftwaffe HQ that if an opportunity arose were a bailed British pilot could be straffed on his way down, the pilot was to do so. . There were ,however some pilots who did Straffe bailed pilots, but these pilots were Black balled by there own squad mates There was just no honor in killing a bailed pilot . Now this order stated that if any Luftwaffe had an opportunity to carry this order out...and DID NOT, they would be shot. of course the Luftwaffe pilots never reported each other.because they did not believe in this order...it was not honorable to shoot a bailed pilot on either side.This is what I meant by Chivalry.
I think this same kind of chivalry should carried over o the flight simm. wouldnt you agree?

X </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

More bs

neural_dream
08-23-2005, 07:33 PM
Act they way you feel better m8. If you want to let the guy live good for you. If you want to kill him then i guess you have your reasons. Maybe your gf left you or you failed your exams. If you are the victim then shut up and next time be more careful. The dead shouldn't be whining. They are dead.

Chivalry is not something you can demand.

Stanger_361st
08-23-2005, 09:19 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Chivalry is not something you can demand. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
That sums it up nicely

Fenris459
08-23-2005, 10:25 PM
Chivalry, as well as civility may not be dead everywhere

but they are dead, buried and worm riddled in these forums.

Remember

He who knows not and knows he knows not is a child, teach him

He who knows not and does not know he knows not is a fool, shun him

He who knows and knows that he knows is a teacher, learn from him

Why not educate instead of denegrate?

Xabre_361st1956
08-23-2005, 11:03 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Hoarmurath:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xabre_361st1956:
OK there is some confusion as to what I said...let me clarify.
Orders came down from the Luftwaffe HQ that if an opportunity arose were a bailed British pilot could be straffed on his way down, the pilot was to do so. . There were ,however some pilots who did Straffe bailed pilots, but these pilots were Black balled by there own squad mates There was just no honor in killing a bailed pilot . Now this order stated that if any Luftwaffe had an opportunity to carry this order out...and DID NOT, they would be shot. of course the Luftwaffe pilots never reported each other.because they did not believe in this order...it was not honorable to shoot a bailed pilot on either side.This is what I meant by Chivalry.
I think this same kind of chivalry should carried over o the flight simm. wouldnt you agree?

X </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

More bs </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

yes ...yes it is if that is your reality....If letting your target land if he is indicated,he is through with the sorte by flaps down,gear down Navs and lights on,and you flame him while he is trying to land anyway, yes my post was BS. If you flame a target while in the air he bails...and you turn and fire on him while his chute is open yes my post is BS. but that is your reality and also,your sense of fair play.Oh im sorry fair play in a simm is BS


X

Xabre_361st1956
08-23-2005, 11:07 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Fenris459:
Chivalry, as well as civility may not be dead everywhere

but they are dead, buried and worm riddled in these forums.

Remember

He who knows not and knows he knows not is a child, teach him

He who knows not and does not know he knows not is a fool, shun him

He who knows and knows that he knows is a teacher, learn from him

Why not educate instead of denegrate? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well said good sir

X

Xabre_361st1956
08-23-2005, 11:09 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by neural_dream:
Act they way you feel better m8. If you want to let the guy live good for you. If you want to kill him then i guess you have your reasons. Maybe your gf left you or you failed your exams. If you are the victim then shut up and next time be more careful. The dead shouldn't be whining. They are dead.

Chivalry is not something you can demand. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Another good point ....good on ya m8
X

PBNA-Boosher
08-23-2005, 11:23 PM
In the Western Theater, yes

In the eastern front you would be VERY hard pressed to find it. Two countries that are bitter enemies, both raised to hate the other, will not treat each other like that.

______________________________________

On another note:

I was on EasternHotshots a day ago in a Bf-109. I snuck up on and heavily damaged an La5FN, I must have put 5 MG-151/20 rounds into the engine, but it didn't seem to be damaged... go figure. When I split essed I found an La-5, most likely the same one, i wouldn't know, it didn't have any markings and neither did many of the planes in the D/F. I opened fire and destroyed his control cables, hit his cockpit, and only just noticed the landing gear coming down out of the bottom. I apologized profusely. I did not know that he wanted to surrender. As soon as I saw it I broke off, but he was too far gone to save himself. I feel really bad about that.

In another dogfight a while later, I was damaged by another La-5FN beyond fighting capability. Immediately I flashed my lights as a sign of surrender as I negotiated my way down safely without an elevator. The La-5FN pilot escorted me down all the way, waggled his wings, and flew on off.

so In game I would say that many of us hold honor for each other pilot. For me at least, I do my best, but sometimes I don't catch it until the last minute.

SeaFireLIV
08-23-2005, 11:25 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by neural_dream:
Act they way you feel better m8. If you want to let the guy live good for you. If you want to kill him then i guess you have your reasons. Maybe your gf left you or you failed your exams. If you are the victim then shut up and next time be more careful. The dead shouldn't be whining. They are dead.

Chivalry is not something you can demand. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Good words. I, myself, can`t bear to shoot a pilot in his chute. Many timse I`ve flown near as if to attack just to scare him, but never shoot - puff smoke at the last minute! If I do that with you, then you`ll know it`s Seafire!

If I see an enemy pilot shoot a friendly in his chute, then I will shoot him if I catch him hanging also.

wayno7777
08-23-2005, 11:35 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by GBrutus:
Is that Galland book, I believe it's called "The First and the Last", actually any good? A reviewer somewhere hinted that it was a little long-winded. Just wanted someones elses opinion as I nearly bought it last week but picked up Norbert Hannigs book instead. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Interesting read. Galland was appalled when Goering brought it up. He told Galland that he agreed that it was despicable and without honor. Galland said he would have to disobey such an order...

Targ
08-23-2005, 11:52 PM
I have to be honest and tell you that in my opinion you come across rather strong and self rightous as a new member.
Perhaps a less condescending attitude will win the day, just a thought. I also have to ask why you feel that stirring the pot will make this place more interesting?
You are intertaining though,
good luck.

Pirschjaeger
08-24-2005, 01:46 AM
Are we for realism or arcade games? Of course you can strafe an enemy plane whether he's landing or taking off. This was the way it was in the real war.

About Chute shooting; Hitler may not have been the sharpest knife in the drawer but he wasn't a spoon either. Politically an order like that would have hurt Hitler.

I have an interview of Bud Anderson on dvd. He admitted to strafing a German chute because he said he had seen the pilot strafing bomber crews in their chutes. He said he slowly picked the German pilot's plane apart to purposely force him to bail. After that he opened up the 50's on the pilot.

Anderson said this was completely taboo for the Luftwaffe and the Allied side. But he said he couldn't believe it when he saw it. He also mentioned that his squadron never trusted him again.

I'm not saying everyone was perfect or even all sides were fair. The Russians earned their own reputation in this matter. But, from what I've read there was a he11 of a lot more respect for the opposing sides then what you'll find in this sim. I've never read a real pilot's account of chasing a burning plane to the deck.

I will strafe any enemy plane on the ground. I will try not to kill the pilot. IMHO, that is honorable to both sides. Defend your nation while defending humanity.

Fritz

Pirschjaeger
08-24-2005, 01:52 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:

I, myself, can`t bear to shoot a pilot in his chute. Many timse I`ve flown near as if to attack just to scare him, but never shoot - puff smoke at the last minute! If I do that with you, then you`ll know it`s Seafire!
. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Or Pirschjaeger. I do the same thing, kind of like a salute in my opinion.

Fritz

Pirschjaeger
08-24-2005, 02:01 AM
I flew on a local server before but I won't mention which one, cough**CHN**cough, ahem.

Not only did many of them like chute shooting but they also alternated their flights so it was impossible to even taxi to the runway. This BS went on for about an hour before I was able to get airbourne.

I told this to one of my squadron members and he posted my story in a Chinese website. Later I found out my whole squadron had gone to the server for payback. The next time I flew on that server I thought it was strange everyone was extra friendly. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Chute shooting is for those with weak minds.

Fritz

Siwarrior
08-24-2005, 02:42 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">la7

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
this ain't 1940 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Deadmeat313
08-24-2005, 02:52 AM
I'm still VERY new at this whole Online Dogfight thing, but when I was flying Red last night on EasternHotshots (my second time ever in an online war) I angled in on a 109 that was mixing it in a fairly large dogfight (3-4 fighters each side engaged). I could see him firing his nose cannon at a comrade as I approached. Realistically, my chances of getting him were pretty low as he had a slight energy advantage over me.

As I closed, he levelled off and went into a shallow dive. His navigation lights flashed on and he started streaming wingtip smoke. I was however not convinced of his "non-combattant" status. (In my own experience of flying 109s I tend to run out of cannon ammo WAY before I'm out of MG ammo, so there was every chance this guy was still dangerous.) Also, while I can see that during final approach maybe, with gear down and nav lights on an enemy aircraft could be left alone - this chap was in the middle of a furball miles from his home base. Could the "Don't Shoot Me - I'm Non-Combattant" message really hold much water here - even if he IS out of ammo?

I continued my pursuit.

My opponent didn't complain (though to be honest I never came close enough to seriously threaten him) but he presumably spotted me and asked for help. Very promptly, another Luftwaffe aircraft screamed in and blasted cannon shells through my front canopy. Think of Wedge waving Luke from a TIE fighter in a head on pass over the Death Star. Black screen. Dogfight over. Nice shooting Wedge.

Was I in the wrong here? Would I have breached an unspoken rule of online fighting? I don't go online to Get Kills (fortunately http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif ). I actually get very immersed and try to think as a combat pilot would. To me, even if he has no ammo thats no reason to break off a capable opponent while his machine is still battle worthy.

But I can see that from a gaming perspective it might be better to concentrate on those who are up for a fight and let the rest RTB and ReFly in their own time.

PS: I have used my navigation lights, but only on final approach so that my ALLIES on the ground could easily see that an aircraft is approaching the runway and don't try to use it to take off. I would not expect an enemy pilot to leave me airworthy if caught in flight - nav lights or not.

Just my 2p.

T.

neural_dream
08-24-2005, 04:50 AM
Next time do your best to shoot him down.

SeaFireLIV
08-24-2005, 05:11 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Deadmeat313:
His navigation lights flashed on and he started streaming wingtip smoke. I was however not convinced of his "non-combattant" status. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, Shoot him down. There are various reasons why he does this:

1. He`s calling for help (maybe on TS also).

2. He`s trying to lag your PC, so you get some pauses.

3. He`s hoping you`ll be confused and waste precious seconds wondering whether to open fire or not.

4. He really does want to surrender in the middle of a dogfight just when you got on his tail. In which case he`s dumb - shoot him down.

5. It`s Hristo-Goering himself. I`m not joking, it`s almost used as much as his guns (he must have a couple of buttons on his stick just for this!) Hristo thinks it attracts the entire Allied force to him because he`s so infamous. Whatever his reasons, shoot him down with all prejudice.

Shoot them whatever the situation, unless you, by your own decision, decide not to.

Even if they`re at home base. There`s being honourable and there`s being taken advantage of. Don`t be taken advantage of. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Philipscdrw
08-24-2005, 05:48 AM
There's no reason to attack Xabre (except for choosing a name that can't be easily pronounced... :P ) This is an interesting topic which we can have a good discussion about.

From what I understand, there wasn't very much chivalry even on the Western front and the BoB. The attitudes of some of the British pilots seemed to be 'What the **** are these ****** ****ing ****ers doing here, dropping ******* bombs, the ****ers?' and wouldn't hesitate to finish off crippled aircraft, aim for cockpits deliberately, etc. (The Polish and Czech aircrew were even more vehement, as many had lost their families to the Germans.) 'Sailor' Malan, one of the leading fighter pilots of the BoB, deliberately aimed to wound or kill most of the crew of each bomber in order to lower morale in the Luftwaffe. War is no time to be chivalrous - you're fighting people who are trying to kill you, and every dead enemy aircrew is one less who won't be shooting your wingman or bombing your capital next week.

Actually, I revise my statements. Chivalry is not a luxury that those who are defending can afford. If someone's attacking you then you're morally justified in kicking him in the groin full force, but if you're attacking someone (speaking strategically here) you're not in as desperate a situation and can be 'nicer'.

Of course, playing a game on a computer, it's a different kettle of fish. No-one dies (unless they never quite get round to logging off, and starve to death at the keyboard).

Deadmeat313
08-24-2005, 06:41 AM
Thanks for the advice guys. I agree that battlefield chivalry is mostly down to the discretion and common sense of the pilot. Speaking of my target, I'd have blown him to Kingdom Come if I'd got within range. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/icon_twisted.gif

As to Xabre's original post, I agree that there was honourable fighting shown on all fronts in WWII (some a great deal more than others), but this should in no way be EXPECTED from an adversary. If I am on someones six and I damage his plane it might be a worthy thing for me to break off and let him try for home otherwise unmolested, but it would be equally right of me to Finish The Job and put him down. Thats what I'm up there for. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif

Really, in my short online career I have seen a great deal of honour already. My comrades and adversaries have given me some excellent examples to follow. I have also been mercilessly chopped from the sky like the pitiful dog I am. Thus I have evolved the philosohpy:

"If someone shows mercy then recognise it for what it is and be thankful, but if they riddle you with bullets and stomp on your wreckage you can hardly blame them. War is Hell after all." http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

T.

polak5
08-24-2005, 07:01 AM
Xabre i dont really understand the purpose of your thread. Are u trying to vent out your anger on these forums of a bad experience in HL?. Hypperlobby is a good place to fly with some good people, dont let one rotten apple ruin it.
regards,polak

Xabre_361st1956
08-24-2005, 08:17 AM
Well, i certainly have gotten a lot of feed back off this topic...thanks to all who participated, i do value all oppinions even the ones that, shall we say are rather vehement in there rebuttles.
I will not fire on an open chute!, and if a plane is near his field navs on, flaps and gear down on final again i will certainly buzz him to let him know he was a dead man...and then briskly move to the next target...but thats me
Some of you of course would not hesitate blow that stricken lander 2 yards from touch down, but hey, Pay backs a M****r F****r and i personally make a point of remembering the blighter and of course hunt him down like the dog he is and emty my guns into his sorry *SS.
It does seem that in Gallands book the order to fire on allied pilots was discussed and that the order never did become official,I guess there were cases of the cowrdly act ,but for the most both allied German and British fighters let there targets bail with no firing on chutes.
However on the eastern front from what i understand it became ugly and no one showed any quarter whatso ever, if you bailed over enemy territory you were a dead man and did not matter what side you on.

X

Xabre_361st1956
08-24-2005, 10:37 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Philipscdrw:
There's no reason to attack Xabre (except for choosing a name that can't be easily pronounced... :P ) This is an interesting topic which we can have a good discussion about.

From what I understand, there wasn't very much chivalry even on the Western front and the BoB. The attitudes of some of the British pilots seemed to be 'What the **** are these ****** ****ing ****ers doing here, dropping ******* bombs, the ****ers?' and wouldn't hesitate to finish off crippled aircraft, aim for cockpits deliberately, etc. (The Polish and Czech aircrew were even more vehement, as many had lost their families to the Germans.) 'Sailor' Malan, one of the leading fighter pilots of the BoB, deliberately aimed to wound or kill most of the crew of each bomber in order to lower morale in the Luftwaffe. War is no time to be chivalrous - you're fighting people who are trying to kill you, and every dead enemy aircrew is one less who won't be shooting your wingman or bombing your capital next week.

Actually, I revise my statements. Chivalry is not a luxury that those who are defending can afford. If someone's attacking you then you're morally justified in kicking him in the groin full force, but if you're attacking someone (speaking strategically here) you're not in as desperate a situation and can be 'nicer'.

Of course, playing a game on a computer, it's a different kettle of fish. No-one dies (unless they never quite get round to logging off, and starve to death at the keyboard). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


LOL its pronounced Saber..but theres many sabers out in the vertual skies so I deciced to spell it with a X and use the french pronounciation of "ber" "BRE" hence XABRE so I hope this helps Cheers!

X

Xabre_361st1956
08-24-2005, 10:45 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by polak5:
Xabre i dont really understand the purpose of your thread. Are u trying to vent out your anger on these forums of a bad experience in HL?. Hypperlobby is a good place to fly with some good people, dont let one rotten apple ruin it.
regards,polak </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Im not trying to vent at all, I get vulched all the time...I prefer not to vulch or fire on chutes, or fire on a pilot who is clearly out of the sorte and trying to land, because it does not show expertise in your flying ability. its just an easy kill for points.
I would much rather have that pilot land respawn and meet up high for a punch up.I also believe its resect for your fellow pilot if you show that your an honorable pilot he will, in most cases show the same. If not you'll know better next time that he cannot be trusted. I hope this explanation clarifies your query.

X

Xabre_361st1956
08-24-2005, 10:52 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Deadmeat313:
Thanks for the advice guys. I agree that battlefield chivalry is mostly down to the discretion and common sense of the pilot. Speaking of my target, I'd have blown him to Kingdom Come if I'd got within range. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/icon_twisted.gif

As to Xabre's original post, I agree that there was honourable fighting shown on all fronts in WWII (some a great deal more than others), but this should in no way be EXPECTED from an adversary. If I am on someones six and I damage his plane it might be a worthy thing for me to break off and let him try for home otherwise unmolested, but it would be equally right of me to Finish The Job and put him down. Thats what I'm up there for. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif

Really, in my short online career I have seen a great deal of honour already. My comrades and adversaries have given me some excellent examples to follow. I have also been mercilessly chopped from the sky like the pitiful dog I am. Thus I have evolved the philosohpy:

"If someone shows mercy then recognise it for what it is and be thankful, but if they riddle you with bullets and stomp on your wreckage you can hardly blame them. War is Hell after all." http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

T. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I believe that if you fly alot which i do the word gets around through the servers that your either an honorable pilot or a point hogg... Usually a point hogg will see a target and fly off to get the points while your up there with *ss hangin in the breeze, while an honorable pilot will watch your six and will always let you know what he's doing. who would you rather fly with...?
X

Xabre_361st1956
08-24-2005, 12:00 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by GBrutus:
Hitler ordered his pilots to strafe bailed airmen? Never heard of this before. I have read that Goering considered shooting bailed airmen during the Battle of Britain but this idea wasn't popular with the Luftwaffe. The reasoning was that a bailed RAF pilot (being over his own territory) could be up flying again while the German pilots would obviously become P.O.W's.

As for chivalry with regards to a computer game? I'm all for having a certain level of conduct on servers but to use the term 'chivalry' is a little pretentious for my liking. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Pretentious you say! if you read the posts you'll find that Galland put out a book that discussed this very subject.....His cohorts said we will NOT fire on bailed pilots.

Xabre_361st1956
08-24-2005, 12:02 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by GBrutus:
Hitler ordered his pilots to strafe bailed airmen? Never heard of this before. I have read that Goering considered shooting bailed airmen during the Battle of Britain but this idea wasn't popular with the Luftwaffe. The reasoning was that a bailed RAF pilot (being over his own territory) could be up flying again while the German pilots would obviously become P.O.W's.

As for chivalry with regards to a computer game? I'm all for having a certain level of conduct on servers but to use the term 'chivalry' is a little pretentious for my liking. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> Pertentious you say!
If you read on you will find that some of the respondance have mentioned a book by Galland that when Goreing discussed this with him and that Firing on bailed pilots was out of the question
X

triggerhappyfin
08-24-2005, 12:02 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by x__CRASH__x:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xabre_361st1956:
HOGAN!!!! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
http://www.lasvegasmercury.com/2005/MERC-Mar-17-Thu-2005/photos/guest.jpg </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v257/Triggerhappyfin/namnlscopy.jpg


OOOPS! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

Xabre_361st1956
08-24-2005, 12:07 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by triggerhappyfin:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by x__CRASH__x:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xabre_361st1956:
HOGAN!!!! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
http://www.lasvegasmercury.com/2005/MERC-Mar-17-Thu-2005/photos/guest.jpg </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v257/Triggerhappyfin/namnlscopy.jpg


OOOPS! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Nice edit on the Photo.....Klink never flipped the bird ...he just had Shultz go out shot the poor basT**rd "I know nothiiiiing"

polak5
08-24-2005, 12:08 PM
^^^^^ http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif lol Trigger
______________________________________________
Yea xabre most people dont vulch like that, just dont let a couple of bad experiences get to you

MrOblongo
08-24-2005, 12:18 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xabre_361st1956:
Ok.....the admistrator finnally closed the "dissapointment of the complete IL2 series...T.G. for that...it was becoming a pissing match!
Now for my next topic.
CHIVALRY DURING THE ETO!
I was flying a DF server yesterday and of of course I was trying to land my severly shot up la7 my wheels were down on the ground and some guy comes whizzing down and flames me about halfway down the runway. I emmediately told him that he had no sense of honor..he chats back and said there was no chivalry during WWII.....WRONG as a matter of fact there was lots especially during the Battle of Britain.
As a matter fact Hitler had given direct orders to Goering and stated that if an Allied pilot bailed that all Luftwaffe pilots were to straffe said pilot on the way down or the pilot who brought down said Spit or Hurri would be shot upon arriving back at his base.It is true that some Luftwaffe pilots who did straffe were in fact black balled by the units or asked to transfer to another squad. Many pilots frowned on unsportsman like conduct ; why becuase the vast majority of Luftwaffe pilots had a deep sense of honor as well as the British pilots..it is well known that if a enemy pilot was shot down that many pilots both British and German would, if possible make sure the downed pilot survived his bail,in some cases the winning pilot would either fly low and slow or come down and dip his wings in solute to the downed pilot .
it is also fact the in some rare cases pilots recognising the soluting pilots markings, or downed pilots markings in a sorte later in the week or month would solute each other and then square off and go at it again or would not fight each other at all.
It is also true that some pilots who survived the war which were few I might add, became fast friends.
So no chivalry ......there was plenty of it in the first year or so of the War.
As we no the PTO was a whole differant story.

X </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The only place from where i have hear about pilots straffing crashed pilots if from P-51 pilots acounts here:
http://www.cebudanderson.com/262.htm


"It skidded over several fields and came to rest and caught fire. The pilot hopped out and started to run. The rest of my flight came over and strafed the plane and No. 4 man hit the pilot running away from the plane. The enemy aircraft was burning brightly, giving off great clouds of black smoke."

"Both P-51 pilots then strafed the pilot on the ground, but his fate is uncertain. Zach remembers that he missed, but thinks Karger may have hit him. "

Zyzbot
08-24-2005, 12:23 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MrOblongo:
[
The only place from where i have hear about pilots straffing..." </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


You need to read more books. You'll find that strafing pilots and shooting at parachutes was done by all sides...and done more often that many would like to admit.

MrOblongo
08-24-2005, 12:24 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Zyzbot:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MrOblongo:
[
The only place from where i have hear about pilots straffing..." </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


You need to read more books. You'll find that strafing pilots and shooting at parachutes was done by all sides...and done more often that many would like to admit. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, i must agree with that also

diomedes33
08-24-2005, 12:29 PM
If you were really flying in WWII, would you put your life in the hands of the "good nature" of your enemy? Who I might add, a few moments ago you were trying to kill or may have killed his friend.

Granted this is only a game, but as long as the aircraft has its pilot, is not heavily smoking or on fire and in one piece, its fair game. Especially the russian birds where they can change from landing configuration to attack very quickly because their flight envelope is best at low alts and medium speeds.

I'm not advocating chute killing in the least, but its just as much your responsibilty to evade and survive as it is to shoot enemy aircraft.

Xabre_361st1956
08-24-2005, 01:03 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by diomedes33:
If you were really flying in WWII, would you put your life in the hands of the "good nature" of your enemy? Who I might add, a few moments ago you were trying to kill or may have killed his friend.

Granted this is only a game, but as long as the aircraft has its pilot, is not heavily smoking or on fire and in one piece, its fair game. Especially the russian birds where they can change from landing configuration to attack very quickly because their flight envelope is best at low alts and medium speeds.

I'm not advocating chute killing in the least, but its just as much your responsibilty to evade and survive as it is to shoot enemy aircraft. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Agreed!I am advocating if he is still flying and trying to evade, press your attack until the fight is over.However if all indications that he is done (flaps,gear down nav and landing lights and on final let him land.

X

Xabre_361st1956
08-24-2005, 01:13 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MrOblongo:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Zyzbot:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MrOblongo:
[
The only place from where i have hear about pilots straffing..." </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


You need to read more books. You'll find that strafing pilots and shooting at parachutes was done by all sides...and done more often that many would like to admit. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, i must agree with that also </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yes I know especially after 1943 in the eastern theatre it was brutal, and even more so in the pacific theatre.. the Nips releshed firing on chutes and even pilots who did emergency landings... Tojo thought it was his duty to kill every last enemy of the imperial empire any way they could...As a consequence the allies meated it back to them three fold especially on the Islands, Iwo, Tinian, Tarawa,Guam Saipan etc.It became inhuman on both sides. we are now experiacing the same fanatisism in Iraq.....scary!


X

Zyzbot
08-24-2005, 01:22 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xabre_361st1956:
[

Yes I know especially after 1943 in the eastern theatre it was brutal, and even more so in the pacific theatre.. the Nips releshed firing on chutes and even pilots who did emergency landings... Tojo thought it was his duty to kill every last enemy of the imperial empire any way they could...As a consequence the allies meated it back to them three fold especially on the Islands, Iwo, Tinian, Tarawa,Guam Saipan etc.It became inhuman on both sides. we are now experiacing the same fanatisism in Iraq.....scary!


X </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


There is nothing special about 1943. Check events in Poland in 1939. BOB and France in 1940. A lot of parachute shooting going on then too. Some Japanese were doing it in China long before the Americans came into the war. Once the Americans got in, some of them began doing it as well.

dgaggi
08-24-2005, 01:23 PM
In the cockpit, prop(s) turning = target. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif War is hell! Chuck Yeager shot down a 262 on final approach. He admitted that it was not a nice thing to do. If hadn't have shot it down, someone else might have been on the recieving end of that 262 later. Vulching may be frowned on by some and I personnally don't do it, but if I get vulched it tells me that the base is hot and that I need to take off from a safer place. Self preservation! I don't get my "panties" in wad about it. It is after all a game.

triggerhappyfin
08-24-2005, 04:28 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xabre_361st1956:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by triggerhappyfin:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by x__CRASH__x:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xabre_361st1956:
HOGAN!!!! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
http://www.lasvegasmercury.com/2005/MERC-Mar-17-Thu-2005/photos/guest.jpg </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v257/Triggerhappyfin/namnlscopy.jpg


OOOPS! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Nice edit on the Photo.....Klink never flipped the bird ...he just had Shultz go out shot the poor basT**rd "I know nothiiiiing" </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually he isnt flippin any bird..Just asks:

SCHULTZ! Vere hav jo been wiz my bestd vacazion fingerrr?? It zmellz like knudel und kraut, mann!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif