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View Full Version : Stealth - Cover System? Crouch?



tjbyrum1
04-02-2011, 08:13 AM
When I play Assassin's Creed, I play it like it should be. Stealthily.

I prefer sneaking around, killing certain individuals in the right order, and that type of stuff. And I do, and I am sort of good at it.

But for some reason, AC just doesn't (and never has) appealed as a good STEALTH game. Sure, there's the ledge assassinations I like, double killing two guards,creating distractions, silently poisoning a foe, and all. These are all great stealth-related things. But I think I have two simple things that Assassin's Creed could have to make it more 'stealthy'.

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A Cover System
Now, I do not mean hiding behind a wall and shooting around it. I just mean something where the Assassin sticks into cover more easily, and can see around the corner. Shooting the hidden gun or darts or even crossbow around it would be cool. Hell, even waiting for the guard to come to you and assassinate him from around a wall would be nice. I know you can simply 'stand' behind a wall, but a cover system would feel better.

A 'secondary' cover system, such as one where hiding in shadows makes you invisible, would even be cool. This idea could be built onto.

Crouching
Crouching is in just about every game. Almost. Well, maybe a few. But crouching is a good thing. I wish AC had crouching in it. Sure you can hold down RT and hold down A to 'crouch', but you cannot crouch-move.

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You might no think it, but there were several times when I wish I had these two features. I also find it quite dumb when the Guard's see you, but you press B to hide over a ledge and they supposedly 'forget' about you.

bitebug2003
04-02-2011, 08:24 AM
Cool poll.

The 'hiding in shadows' would be like Splinter Cell (although those missions were mainly in dark areas/night time with minimal lighting).

AC would have to incorporate dark alleyways or darker nights to be able to pull it off - not sure how they would do it though.

I love stealth games, and would appreciate more stealth based gameplay.

ChaosxNetwork
04-02-2011, 09:03 AM
I like the idea of the cover system it would make tailing people better instead of being far round a corner but still being able to see the victim (The 25s timer not starting)
But I am not bothered about the crouch system.
I also like your poll http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Mr_Shade
04-02-2011, 09:24 AM
Originally posted by bitebug2003:
Cool poll.

The 'hiding in shadows' would be like Splinter Cell (although those missions were mainly in dark areas/night time with minimal lighting).

AC would have to incorporate dark alleyways or darker nights to be able to pull it off - not sure how they would do it though.

I love stealth games, and would appreciate more stealth based gameplay. Indeed...

Sounds like a Splinter Cell / AC mix tape http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Best of both worlds..

[I'm currently playing through Spliner Cell 3D - and nothing beats a little neck snapping from the shadows]
LOL

tjbyrum1
04-02-2011, 11:04 AM
Yeah, the '25 timer' thing wouldn't be as constant with a cover system.

Never played Splinter Cell. Though it sounds good. FPS?

Mr_Shade
04-02-2011, 11:18 AM
Originally posted by tjbyrum1:
Yeah, the '25 timer' thing wouldn't be as constant with a cover system.

Never played Splinter Cell. Though it sounds good. FPS? No.. Third Person http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[over the shoulder]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8sZW7MsYTGc

TorQue1988
04-02-2011, 01:33 PM
great ideas ...and it think for it to work in the AC style ,all of this functions should require only a button,let's say a Sneak Button:
-the Sneak Button is lock-on and not required to be pressed all the time.
-to exit sneak tap Sneak Button or press Profile/Block + Legs/Feet(just like exiting combat mode)
-when Sneak Button is pressed Ezio(or any ancestor) enters a stealthy state,sneaking around silently;
-while sneak is activated Ezio auto-covers when near a wall or object;
-to exit auto-cover press Empty Hand Button(or Profile/Block + Legs/Feet)
-to move from cover to cover tap the Legs/Feet + directional keys;
-look around corners (to aim pistol or crosbow) by pressing left,right or up according to the scenario,or just lock on to the enemy and press attack (blind-fire);
-to assassinate while in cover logically press the attack button;
-to crouch while sneaking keep free arm button pressed(don't know about this one,maybe is unnecessary because Ezio is walking silently anyway while sneaking,and besides the free arm button would be necessary to grab enemies);
-while sneaking or in cover Ezio can throw rocks to attract targets to a specific spot.
-i also like the idea of hiding in the shadows;maybe when entering a shade Ezio would automatically enter a secondary sneaking mode,and you could tap the head button to whistle or make some noise and attract targets into a deadly trap.
-also some type of interrogations would be nice,like in Splinter Cell Conviction or the Godfather games.

notafanboy
04-02-2011, 01:51 PM
Originally posted by TorQue1988:
great ideas ...and it think for it to work in the AC style ,all of this functions should require only a button,let's say a Sneak Button:
-the Sneak Button is lock-on and not required to be pressed all the time.
-to exit sneak tap Sneak Button or press Profile/Block + Legs/Feet(just like exiting combat mode)
-when Sneak Button is pressed Ezio(or any ancestor) enters a stealthy state,sneaking around silently;
-while sneak is activated Ezio auto-covers when near a wall or object;
-to exit auto-cover press Empty Hand Button(or Profile/Block + Legs/Feet)
-to move from cover to cover tap the Legs/Feet + directional keys;
-look around corners (to aim pistol or crosbow) by pressing left,right or up according to the scenario,or just lock on to the enemy and press attack (blind-fire);
-to assassinate while in cover logically press the attack button;
-to crouch while sneaking keep free arm button pressed(don't know about this one,maybe is unnecessary because Ezio is walking silently anyway while sneaking,and besides the free arm button would be necessary to grab enemies);
-while sneaking or in cover Ezio can throw rocks to attrack targets to a specific spot.
-also some type of interrogations would be nice,like in Splinter Cell Conviction or the Godfather games.
it would make more sense for him to throw coins.

Saracenar
04-02-2011, 09:09 PM
I like that idea. It would be really cool to be able to stick to walls and such, like in Batman: Arkham Asylum, and have similar 'takedowns' based on cover.

Considering that there is a day/night cycle in the game, you could implement the 'stick to the shadows' thing at night only and thus provide a better reason to hunt at night. Night is cool.

Colossus_1191
04-03-2011, 06:16 PM
I believe these things would have developed from AC1, but people complained so much about that game that they decided to make it flashy instead.

ElleCore
04-04-2011, 03:43 AM
I voted for Crouching only, never liked cover systems, and will never like them.

Xanatos2007
04-04-2011, 05:00 AM
Run (not sprint) into a wall to press up against it. This makes the ancestor harder to spot as there's less chance of him sticking out from around a corner.

Hold High Profile + Legs Button to crouch. You cannot move in this position, although it's useful for ducking behind crates/chimneys/rooftops out of the line of sight.

itsamea-mario
04-04-2011, 05:20 AM
Originally posted by TorQue1988:
great ideas ...and it think for it to work in the AC style ,all of this functions should require only a button,let's say a Sneak Button:
-the Sneak Button is lock-on and not required to be pressed all the time.
-to exit sneak tap Sneak Button or press Profile/Block + Legs/Feet(just like exiting combat mode)
-when Sneak Button is pressed Ezio(or any ancestor) enters a stealthy state,sneaking around silently;
-while sneak is activated Ezio auto-covers when near a wall or object;
-to exit auto-cover press Empty Hand Button(or Profile/Block + Legs/Feet)
-to move from cover to cover tap the Legs/Feet + directional keys;
-look around corners (to aim pistol or crosbow) by pressing left,right or up according to the scenario,or just lock on to the enemy and press attack (blind-fire);
-to assassinate while in cover logically press the attack button;
-to crouch while sneaking keep free arm button pressed(don't know about this one,maybe is unnecessary because Ezio is walking silently anyway while sneaking,and besides the free arm button would be necessary to grab enemies);
-while sneaking or in cover Ezio can throw rocks to attract targets to a specific spot.
-i also like the idea of hiding in the shadows;maybe when entering a shade Ezio would automatically enter a secondary sneaking mode,and you could tap the head button to whistle or make some noise and attract targets into a deadly trap.
-also some type of interrogations would be nice,like in Splinter Cell Conviction or the Godfather games.

You mean like there's low profile / high profile, there should be a botton for 'stealth' profile? yeah that could work.

I always thought some kind of stealth system would be good, social stealth is nice an all, but sort of fails for infiltration missions.

Usually i'll just stand by a corner and just assassinate as a guard goes past, it works but it could be vastly improved, with corner based assassination moves, say he quickly assassinates and then pulls the guard around to his side of the corner, kind of thing.

Using rafters looks stealthy however, and is usually the best way to avoid detection.

tjbyrum1
04-04-2011, 08:09 AM
The only stealth in Assassin's Creed has to do with you hanging you off a ledge, or jumping from a ledge to assassinate someone.

I hate knowing that standing beside a wall is supposedly stealthy.

You know when you run and a guard will turn around to look at you? Well, what if crouching made you quiet and you could go up to him crouching to kill him without him looking behind you?

Imagine using a cover system and waiting for a guard to walk near. You could use a 'distract' feature - make noise so the guard will come to check it out.

GunnarGunderson
04-04-2011, 10:50 PM
I'd like to see some hitman esque assassination missions

bveUSbve
04-05-2011, 01:59 AM
I'd like both suggested features. However, a cover-system where all/most locations prone to become fighting-areas are obviously stuffed with designed-to-take-cover objects should definitely be avoided...

You might no think it, but there were several times when I wish I had these two features. I also find it quite dumb when the Guard's see you, but you press B to hide over a ledge and they supposedly 'forget' about you.
Yes, the guard/enemy-AI could benefit from more "realistic" behavior including "memory" when they once have detected you.

On an related note: I liked in AC2 that I could wander the roof-tops and not necessarily needed to kill all the guards up there -- instead (in most cases) I tried to disarm them; and if they hadn't reinforcements within reach, they gave up fighting (after some seconds..). http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

This tactics regrettably is not applicable in 'Brotherhood', because here the guards on the roofs are armed with crossbows and cannot be disarmed (or I don't know how). And they are way more aggressive (annoyingly so) and dodge normal fist-attacks.

So most of the time it's too much trouble to act like a "true" assassin (who wouldn't kill anyone getting in his way -- or at least that's the way I would prefer playing him..). Killing them after they detected you is the only "effective" method to deal with those crossbow-equipped guards.

To me this is a contradiction to Ezio sometimes even sparing the life of truly "evil" enemies -- like Micheletto in 'Brotherhood'.

obliviondoll
04-05-2011, 02:10 AM
Originally posted by bveUSbve:
I'd like both suggested features. However, a cover-system where all/most locations prone to become fighting-areas are obviously stuffed with designed-to-take-cover objects should definitely be avoided...
"Chest-high walls. Must be a fight coming up!"

No thanks.

Agreed, bveUSbve.

Xanatos2007
04-05-2011, 02:29 AM
Kyuuketsuki-ka?! Haven't seen you online in ages. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/icon_twisted.gif

I think Ubisoft needs to make better use of the whole 'social stealth' thing in future instalments, those are always my favourite mission types.

obliviondoll
04-05-2011, 03:31 AM
Originally posted by Xanatos2007:
Kyuuketsuki-ka?! Haven't seen you online in ages. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/icon_twisted.gif

I think Ubisoft needs to make better use of the whole 'social stealth' thing in future instalments, those are always my favourite mission types.
Been a while since we've had a run-in, you're right.

I'm still around, I've just been in the next room. (click my sig for directions). Hope to see you there sometime soon.

Inorganic9_2
04-05-2011, 08:09 AM
You've come up with a great idea when you speak about the peering round a corner thing. It made me think of "assassinate from a corner". Imagine, rather than stepping out, probably making yourself noticed, stabbing, waiting for the guard to fall, then picking up their corpse, walking back round the corner and dropping them... (see how long that was?)

Assassinate from a corner: As they walk towards you, you dart out from the corner, stab and drag them back round the corner in one move, thereby making it a quick manoeuvre which shouldn't get you noticed as much.

Also, I think sound should play a part in sealthy sections. Sometimes, you can drop to the floor or run behind a guard and make a lot of noise without them noticing you're there! Advanced stealth/low profile assassination: a stab as usual with the assassin lowering the person to the ground so the sound of them hitting the floor doesn't alert anyone (it's kind of like that with the high profile, close range moving assassination, only the actual stab alerts everyone!)