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Turkiye96
08-22-2011, 06:43 AM
ok well iv been playing Assassin's creed 1 lately, and iv been looking at the 2 different fighting systems for it and ACB. In assassin's creed 1 it wasn't much harder, but it did have some special things to help us mess up.

1- the guards would surround you ( but so would brotherhood). the difference was that 98 times of of 100 you could just counter these attacks in brotherhood while in AC1 you were very vulnerable and had to keep moving and fighting at the same time, and sometimes that wasnt even enough.

2- tells. In Brotherhood the guards have a bunch of squares on the top of them telling you how much life they have and it flashes ages before they attack. while in AC1 there were no tells, this made the time you had to counted much less. also we didnt know how much health they had, but what i personally thought was really smart was that they would do a animation where they quickly stepped up to you giving you the impression that he was gona attack and so when you pressed counter nothing happened and for a second or 2 you would be vulnerable to attacks ( at which i just got slashed to peices :P)
personally i dont think they should have the blocks flash in revelations unless you are using eagle sence while fighting at which point their body should flash.

3-weaknesses. I have found this to be the reason why most people find the combat easy.
In AC1, there was only 1 type of guard with different levels giving them more advanced fighing skills. they had no weaknesses, the only way to beat them was to counter attack and do the combo kills ( tap square the exact second the sword hit theirs) aka. skill.
they didn't have a weakness you would just swing your sword at them until they couldn't defend anymore and got to attack them. in brotherhood all we have to no is the types and we can kill anybody. brutes require you to use your hands to unequipt them and then use their own weapon against them seekers too. agiles need a simple always lethal counter.
and so on. we could kill them because we knew how.

4- counter times are much longer in acb especially with the hidden blades compared to AC1

there are a lot more reasons but i will get to them later.

what do you guys think about it? should they put some of these back in combat? or maybe you have your own ideas...

also just to let you know, i am not for making the game harder although i wouldnt be sad if they did. these are just some observations i have made

Turkiye96
08-22-2011, 06:43 AM
ok well iv been playing Assassin's creed 1 lately, and iv been looking at the 2 different fighting systems for it and ACB. In assassin's creed 1 it wasn't much harder, but it did have some special things to help us mess up.

1- the guards would surround you ( but so would brotherhood). the difference was that 98 times of of 100 you could just counter these attacks in brotherhood while in AC1 you were very vulnerable and had to keep moving and fighting at the same time, and sometimes that wasnt even enough.

2- tells. In Brotherhood the guards have a bunch of squares on the top of them telling you how much life they have and it flashes ages before they attack. while in AC1 there were no tells, this made the time you had to counted much less. also we didnt know how much health they had, but what i personally thought was really smart was that they would do a animation where they quickly stepped up to you giving you the impression that he was gona attack and so when you pressed counter nothing happened and for a second or 2 you would be vulnerable to attacks ( at which i just got slashed to peices :P)
personally i dont think they should have the blocks flash in revelations unless you are using eagle sence while fighting at which point their body should flash.

3-weaknesses. I have found this to be the reason why most people find the combat easy.
In AC1, there was only 1 type of guard with different levels giving them more advanced fighing skills. they had no weaknesses, the only way to beat them was to counter attack and do the combo kills ( tap square the exact second the sword hit theirs) aka. skill.
they didn't have a weakness you would just swing your sword at them until they couldn't defend anymore and got to attack them. in brotherhood all we have to no is the types and we can kill anybody. brutes require you to use your hands to unequipt them and then use their own weapon against them seekers too. agiles need a simple always lethal counter.
and so on. we could kill them because we knew how.

4- counter times are much longer in acb especially with the hidden blades compared to AC1

there are a lot more reasons but i will get to them later.

what do you guys think about it? should they put some of these back in combat? or maybe you have your own ideas...

also just to let you know, i am not for making the game harder although i wouldnt be sad if they did. these are just some observations i have made

ShaneO7K
08-22-2011, 06:58 AM
It was great fighting the special templar soliders you would find around the cities/ the kingdom.

luckyto
08-22-2011, 09:00 AM
I think you are dead on. I love the chain-kill system in Brotherhood and the additional weapons in AC2 but the specialized guard types, smaller numbers of guards, and weakened notoriety system really hurt combat. Plus, you have too much weaponry and medical supplies.

Dralight
08-22-2011, 09:09 AM
I don't think the combat in AC1 was necessarily much harder than AC2 and ACB, just you had less help from the game. However, combat in AC1 was quite difficult for about the first half of the game (before you can counterkill, grab break etc) but if you decide to fight with the hidden blade it makes the combat a whole lot easier again.

As for the indicators in AC2 and ACB, i agree they made the combat easier, especially the flash over an enemies head before they attack. But if you want to make the combat more of a challenge you could just turn the indicators off.

For me, the kill streaks are what made the fighting too easy (as much as i enjoy them). It got to the point where you wouldn't even have to disarm brutes/seekers as you could just kill them in a single hit from your kill chain.

I wouldn't mind the combat being made harder in Revelations, but i still find it quite fun the way it is at the moment.

Jamison_J_B
08-22-2011, 09:15 AM
yeah in AC1 once you got the counter kill ability, at least me, I could win pretty much any fight. I like to go around kill every guard I could find. Man, that is alot of fun http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

Sevenofnine-st
08-22-2011, 09:21 AM
I'm in the middle of AC1 these days and I agree that the combat is not necessarily harder than in the two other games but it does require more skills since you have a lot less weaponry at your disposal. The counter-kill does make things easier but since the timing has to be perfect, I've noticed that it's not always the right choice. Sometimes striking first is the better option.

I wish I was able to master the disarm feature in AC2 and ACB... I still can't do it properly and it's really frustrating... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

Jamison_J_B
08-22-2011, 09:33 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Sevenofnine-st:
I'm in the middle of AC1 these days and I agree that the combat is not necessarily harder than in the two other games but it does require more skills since you have a lot less weaponry at your disposal. The counter-kill does make things easier but since the timing has to be perfect, I've noticed that it's not always the right choice. Sometimes striking first is the better option.

I wish I was able to master the disarm feature in AC2 and ACB... I still can't do it properly and it's really frustrating... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I go for the disarm when their weapon is half-way down (about to hit you). It takes practice, like the counter kills for AC1.

Blind2Society
08-22-2011, 09:33 AM
It's the same as the counter kill just with bare fists. Easy as pie http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Sevenofnine-st
08-22-2011, 09:45 AM
Thanks for the tips, guys! I'll try that next time. I think it's a cool move and I've seen Ezio do it so many times in AC trailers, I really wanna be able to do it at least once.

dchil279
08-22-2011, 10:29 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Turkiye96:
ok well iv been playing Assassin's creed 1 lately, and iv been looking at the 2 different fighting systems for it and ACB. In assassin's creed 1 it wasn't much harder, but it did have some special things to help us mess up.

1- the guards would surround you ( but so would brotherhood). the difference was that 98 times of of 100 you could just counter these attacks in brotherhood while in AC1 you were very vulnerable and had to keep moving and fighting at the same time, and sometimes that wasnt even enough.

2- tells. In Brotherhood the guards have a bunch of squares on the top of them telling you how much life they have and it flashes ages before they attack. while in AC1 there were no tells, this made the time you had to counted much less. also we didnt know how much health they had, but what i personally thought was really smart was that they would do a animation where they quickly stepped up to you giving you the impression that he was gona attack and so when you pressed counter nothing happened and for a second or 2 you would be vulnerable to attacks ( at which i just got slashed to peices :P)
personally i dont think they should have the blocks flash in revelations unless you are using eagle sence while fighting at which point their body should flash.

3-weaknesses. I have found this to be the reason why most people find the combat easy.
In AC1, there was only 1 type of guard with different levels giving them more advanced fighing skills. they had no weaknesses, the only way to beat them was to counter attack and do the combo kills ( tap square the exact second the sword hit theirs) aka. skill.
they didn't have a weakness you would just swing your sword at them until they couldn't defend anymore and got to attack them. in brotherhood all we have to no is the types and we can kill anybody. brutes require you to use your hands to unequipt them and then use their own weapon against them seekers too. agiles need a simple always lethal counter.
and so on. we could kill them because we knew how.

4- counter times are much longer in acb especially with the hidden blades compared to AC1

there are a lot more reasons but i will get to them later.

what do you guys think about it? should they put some of these back in combat? or maybe you have your own ideas...

also just to let you know, i am not for making the game harder although i wouldnt be sad if they did. these are just some observations i have made </div></BLOCKQUOTE> http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif
You're dead on dude. I loved all of these aspects to the game and how Altair would grit his teeth. Show much more fun than Ezio not even trying and getting a 50 kil chain.

SupremeCaptain
08-22-2011, 11:03 AM
I love how when you attacked a skilled guard, they would counter and it would actually hurt you. Also how they would combo you and you punch you straight in the face, causing you to stagger back.

I always loved fighting the Templars because they fought just as dirty as Altair.

Bruno_Berg
08-22-2011, 11:36 AM
Oh look, it's this thread again...

Yeah, the combat is pretty easy with the counters, but it's als more fun. To be honest, how difficult was the combat in AC1 really? It was definately harder than AC:B, but also kind of boring. You just waited and countered their attacks there too, it just took longer and didn't look quite as badass. Sure, sometimes you had to dodge aswell but really, it wasn't that much better if you ask me.

BK-110
08-22-2011, 12:01 PM
In my opinion AC1 definitely had the best combat in the series. The fight against Robert and his Templars before King Richard was great and actually rather difficult.

Alpha Ender
08-22-2011, 12:06 PM
I liked the combat in AC. There's some things that AC2 made better, like making it more fluid and such, but...I dunno. AC had more realism. The synch instead of health thing was more satisfying to deal with. As much as I love kill streaking from one enemy to another, it takes away some of the thrill after the first fifty times. If I can dispatch 4 of the hardest enemies in the game in under 15 seconds using my fists, something is wrong (though I LOVE the hand-to-hand fighting and kill animations; it's all I ever fight with). Also, people saying that combat hasn't changed, there's just more weapons and such? Bullcrap. To counter with the hidden blade in AC took very precise skill. ACB, you could pretty much counter whenever and it would kill the enemy, and counters with any weapon kill everyone except Seekers (I've never had a counter happen and be blocked by anyone but Seekers). AC and AC2 understood that we're fighting fairly talented enemies, and that we can't always counter for a kill.

TL;DR ---&gt; I prefer the challenge of AC's combat system, but I prefer the...beauty of ACB's combat system. Ideally, a mix somewhat akin to AC2's system.

luckyto
08-22-2011, 12:29 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bruno_Berg:
Yeah, the combat is pretty easy with the counters, but it's als more fun. To be honest, how difficult was the combat in AC1 really? It was definately harder than AC:B, but also kind of boring. You just waited and countered their attacks there too, </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

See... here is the root of the "AC1 Combat is easy" complaints since Day One, even from professional reviewers.

Yes, you can just sit there and counter ... and survive.

But should you? Does that really count as 'playing'? To me, the combat is fun when you are on the offensive. Try to be consistent getting a combo hit kill... that is a challenge. That is the way it was designed. And counters were meant to be used between attacks.

The ideal combat for me would be --- soldiers from AC1, no medical supplies like AC1, and chain-kill ONLY with a combo attack (not a counter) which can be kept going the same way it is currently in Brotherhood. Getting a combo attack required some good timing, and was always in danger of a counter by the more skilled guards. If you were rewarded with chain-killing for successfully landing a combo, people would stop just sitting there waiting for a counter and fight more offensively.

sassinscreed
08-22-2011, 12:49 PM
only difference in ac 1 between brotherhood combat is kill chain, but in every assassins creed game when you get in combat-counter, counter, counter and everyone dead

SupremeCaptain
08-22-2011, 12:54 PM
But you couldn't just sit there and counter. Some enemies required you to attack them and bring down their health. If you countered, you would just push them away, and if you attacked, you'd get countered yourself. So you had to be cautious.

luckyto
08-22-2011, 12:55 PM
That's the easy way out.

Calvarok
08-22-2011, 01:32 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SupremeCaptain:
But you couldn't just sit there and counter. Some enemies required you to attack them and bring down their health. If you countered, you would just push them away, and if you attacked, you'd get countered yourself. So you had to be cautious. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Not if you used the hidden blade. And if you used that, all you had to do to win fights was wait for your enemy to go into his "I'm not paying attention animation" and you could kill him.

At the worst times, sometimes a fight in AC1 consisted of no enemy attacks, just Altair pouncing on enemies randomly, with an enemy recoiling in fear from that, and then getting stabbed, and then another, and excetera.

At that point, it was embarassingly bad compared to brotherhood. But at brotherhood's worst, you at least had to counter an attack to start the chain. My problem with brotherhood at its worst is not that enemies don't attack fast enough for you to need to counter, sometimes, but that the animations for a kill streak often involve the enemy holding up his weapon in fear, and doing nothing to stop Ezio completing it. I would like to see more animations that make it look like the enemies are TRYING to kill him still. Then it will feel just that much more action-packed.

But brotherhood at it's best was when you were comboing an enemy, started the animation, then aborted it to counter an enemy, dodged sand thrown at you, then continued the streak on the next guy, then countered the next, broke out of a grab, then streaked the last.

That kind of situation is the most exciting AC combat has ever been, and the most reactive, too.

Ubisoft needs to take steps to make that situation happen more often. All I want is for it to be impossible for you to fight 3 guards, and not have at least one of them attack you mid-animation, like in the gameplay vid. If that was because these are beginning-of-game guards, then fine, but I would appreciate even the lowbies being boosted to have a more rapid attack time when the story has advanced a bit, like what happened in AC2 with all lowbie's health being increased at a certain point in the story.

If the guards can keep you countering and dodging dirt every battle of 3 and higher, then the combat will be phenomenal. Just don't give so much warning with the flashes, and don't be afraid to make their attacks hurt, we have an entire lab-full of medicine.

BTW, portable medicine should heal your entire health, but have a reduced pouch size.
And maybe it should have a longer animation that requires you to be stationary, so it's not abused in combat?

Anyways, Brotherhood's combat was awesome against many enemies, as evidenced by the VR room. But I think it needs to be more punishing of people who get hit 10 times in one fight against 7 enemies.

Also, if VR missions are back, Ubi should just give us unlimited guard combat rooms, and score us on how long we last with no meds, not count a timer down.
We should be able to select what guards we want to fight in each room: lowbies, seekers, agiles, heavies, maybe even rooftop guards?

And VR training should include some very sand-boxy assassination missions, which should be scored depending on both time, and point bonuses similar to multiplayer.

luckyto
08-22-2011, 01:42 PM
There's not nearly enough guards in Brotherhood. You can wipe out a patrol and a nearby station of guards in no time. In AC 1, you had patrols of nine guards + stationed guards + random single guards who regenerated. You could stand in certain places and face onslaughts of enemies without a bag of 15 medicines to bail you out should things even start to get tense. Only in attacking Borgia towers did you ever face a challenge.

And two, the guard types led to a very monotonous fighting style for me. Brutes and spears guys - either kick and attack or bare hands counter. Agiles - counter. Other guards - combo. It was always the same. In AC1, yes, I can sit there and counter --- but if I try to attack it leads to wide variety of encounters. It actually feels like sword play, rather than arcade play.

Animuses
08-22-2011, 03:33 PM
Why is combat system easy?
Maybe because Ezio is an experienced assassin and he's fighting regular guards. The fact that Ezio overpowers the guards makes total sense.

The first AC is only hard before you regain the counter ability, after that, it's quite easy.

Calvarok
08-22-2011, 03:49 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Animuses:
Why is combat system easy?
Maybe because Ezio is an experienced assassin and he's fighting regular guards. The fact that Ezio overpowers the guards makes total sense.

The first AC is only hard before you regain the counter ability, after that, it's quite easy. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
We're not complaining about Ezio being awesome, we're complaining about how sometimes the guards don't even react quick enough to give you any counters to do mid-killstreak, or anything to dodge. They just stand there to be killed. That's if you're unlucky, sometimes guards can put up quite a resistance, but that' just because you're getting lucky with their "I should attack now" generators.

Also, no matter how skilled Ezio is, there should be more differentiation between him killing grunts, and him killing experienced soldiers.

Animuses
08-22-2011, 04:07 PM
The same crap keeps getting posted about combat being too easy. We know, stop and move on.

<span class="ev_code_RED">Please do not bypass the Language Filter.</span>

Calvarok
08-22-2011, 04:22 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Animuses:
The same crap keeps getting posted about combat being too easy. We know, stop b*tching and move on. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
True, the OP was not very original, but I think some of the discussion in the topic about what can be DONE to fix it is very good.

Panfaun
08-22-2011, 05:54 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Animuses:
The same crap keeps getting posted about combat being too easy. We know, stop b*tching and move on. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Then I guess Ubisoft should do something about it. But I don't really care about saying something that's already been said to death. So change if they want to or not, doesn't matter really.

Black_Widow9
08-23-2011, 02:39 AM
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