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View Full Version : Feedback and Design Suggestions on Investigations and Collectables/Unlockables



Redfeather1975
12-09-2007, 08:51 PM
I hope it's okay to post this feedback. I really did like this game, however I wanted to share some thoughts on aspects of the game that were lacking and could use some improvement.
I could not find a topic that already existed on gameplay feedback, yet if I misssed it, I would be very thankful if a moderator could direct me to that topic or add this post to it.

On to feedback and suggestions.

I felt it would be nice if information gathering missions were revamped to add more depth and challenge. They lack serious entertainment value and unforunately make the game's fun factor very inconsistent.
Also the achievements involving finding x number of things should have some kind of incentive to do so. Otherwise it just feels tacked on in order to increase gameplay longevity in a very lack luster way.

So I got some suggestions. I apologize that it's a long read.
But I would really like to know if what I found wrong with the game were things others also wished were improved and hopefully spark some ideas on how to improve them that fit into the context of the existing gameplay style. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Interrogation:
Currently it's punching a guy in the face until a cutscene starts. It needs depth and challenge.
Follow the target, get their attention, then initiate interrogation. That's good! But there needs to be more.
Allow the player to control what body language they use and lines they say throughout the interaction with the NPC in order to intimidate/charm/bribe the target into revealing information at certain points throughout the conversation.
The player can continue the interrogation as long as they wish to try multiple possibilities, however there will be a catch.
A person is looking for the NPC and if they see you interrogating them things get really ugly.
You can halt interrogation, grab the target and push them along to quiet areas to continue interrogations longer.
Essentially it needs more depth, challenge and tension.

Eavesdropping:
Currently there are some Eavesdropping missions that involve getting into tricky places. This is good! People don't talk about sensitive information so carelessly out in the open.
Eavesdropping's challenge and depth should come from the difficulty of staying close enough to hear what is being said while remaining inconspicuous. Considering that when people discussing sensitive information don't necessarily stand still and don't do so in the open, this style of mission should be filled with continuous tension and challenge throughout the NPCs conversation.
The ability to move throughout the conversation in order to continue to hear what is being said, while remaining either hidden or inconspicuous would bring that continuous tension and challenge. Listening in on people talking about sensitive information won't always give you the luxury of staying still. People can talk while on the move too!

Pick Pocket:
Apart from 2 missions I did where the NPC moved to well guarded areas, these missions were very plain and extremely short!
They require more depth, but unfortunately I have no suggestions that would accomplish this.
Pick pocketing should be very crafty. I would imagine it would sometimes involve creating distractions to create opportunities, and perhaps even incapacitating the target in a way that looks like an accident then taking their possessions.

Informant:
The assassination ones are fine. They fit into the style of the game. However the flag gathering ones really break immersion and feel tacked on.
When I bought AC, I did not picture controlling an assassin to pick up flags under a time limit. It just feels very out of place.
The idea of having to create 'lines' of quick travel in order to accomplish a goal within a short time limit is very entertaining though. Perhaps it would be more interesting if that gameplay idea were used in following NPCs who are moving very quickly to an unknown destination. You must keep up with them until they reach their destination, all while remaining undetected.
Still fast paced, yet more immersive.
I would not restrict that style of gameplay to just informant missions though. Any of the other missions could involve this type of gameplay as part of it. An NPC you have to pick pocket information from, or people talking about something you wish to listen in on, could move very quickly at times and you'd have to find ways to keep up while remaining inconspicuous.
Also, informants who wish to share information may want information in return. It's possible to go anywhere with that idea in mind. As an example, you could be required to stealthily scout an area and use eagle vision to gain information about NPC placement or special object locations.

Achievements:
Whether it be finding hidden items, killing x number of NPCs hiding all over the game, or the various unlockable achievements such as 'Enemy of the Poor', every optional challenge should provide some kind of incentive to do these things. They should also provide some kind of perk when completed that help add even more depth to gameplay in a way that is not game breaking.
Perks could range from anything to incredibly convenient shortcuts from one area of the city to another (such as a tunnel), an enhancement of an ability, or enhanced interaction with the various NPC types throughout the game that could be used in gameplay.
Currently these extra tasks are simply not viable enough to adequately enhance replayability, or gameplay longevity.

Many of the things I mentioned above are elements of the game that both many players and critics alike criticized as detracting from the overall quality of the game. Despite good sales for AC, there are people who are now wary about purchasing any sequels to the game based on their negative experiences with the first.
I am just hoping that game design focuses on addressing those issues so that any following AC title will do well! Hype has significantly less effect on the sales of a sequel!
Also longevity, and more importantly, replayability are incredibly important factors to success in a franchise. They should not be overlooked. They should be strengthened with each successive game. They are very much what affects a video game consumer's decision as to whether a title is a 'weekend rental' or a 'must buy'.

That's all I've got to share. Thanks to all who took the time to read.

Redfeather1975
12-09-2007, 08:51 PM
I hope it's okay to post this feedback. I really did like this game, however I wanted to share some thoughts on aspects of the game that were lacking and could use some improvement.
I could not find a topic that already existed on gameplay feedback, yet if I misssed it, I would be very thankful if a moderator could direct me to that topic or add this post to it.

On to feedback and suggestions.

I felt it would be nice if information gathering missions were revamped to add more depth and challenge. They lack serious entertainment value and unforunately make the game's fun factor very inconsistent.
Also the achievements involving finding x number of things should have some kind of incentive to do so. Otherwise it just feels tacked on in order to increase gameplay longevity in a very lack luster way.

So I got some suggestions. I apologize that it's a long read.
But I would really like to know if what I found wrong with the game were things others also wished were improved and hopefully spark some ideas on how to improve them that fit into the context of the existing gameplay style. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Interrogation:
Currently it's punching a guy in the face until a cutscene starts. It needs depth and challenge.
Follow the target, get their attention, then initiate interrogation. That's good! But there needs to be more.
Allow the player to control what body language they use and lines they say throughout the interaction with the NPC in order to intimidate/charm/bribe the target into revealing information at certain points throughout the conversation.
The player can continue the interrogation as long as they wish to try multiple possibilities, however there will be a catch.
A person is looking for the NPC and if they see you interrogating them things get really ugly.
You can halt interrogation, grab the target and push them along to quiet areas to continue interrogations longer.
Essentially it needs more depth, challenge and tension.

Eavesdropping:
Currently there are some Eavesdropping missions that involve getting into tricky places. This is good! People don't talk about sensitive information so carelessly out in the open.
Eavesdropping's challenge and depth should come from the difficulty of staying close enough to hear what is being said while remaining inconspicuous. Considering that when people discussing sensitive information don't necessarily stand still and don't do so in the open, this style of mission should be filled with continuous tension and challenge throughout the NPCs conversation.
The ability to move throughout the conversation in order to continue to hear what is being said, while remaining either hidden or inconspicuous would bring that continuous tension and challenge. Listening in on people talking about sensitive information won't always give you the luxury of staying still. People can talk while on the move too!

Pick Pocket:
Apart from 2 missions I did where the NPC moved to well guarded areas, these missions were very plain and extremely short!
They require more depth, but unfortunately I have no suggestions that would accomplish this.
Pick pocketing should be very crafty. I would imagine it would sometimes involve creating distractions to create opportunities, and perhaps even incapacitating the target in a way that looks like an accident then taking their possessions.

Informant:
The assassination ones are fine. They fit into the style of the game. However the flag gathering ones really break immersion and feel tacked on.
When I bought AC, I did not picture controlling an assassin to pick up flags under a time limit. It just feels very out of place.
The idea of having to create 'lines' of quick travel in order to accomplish a goal within a short time limit is very entertaining though. Perhaps it would be more interesting if that gameplay idea were used in following NPCs who are moving very quickly to an unknown destination. You must keep up with them until they reach their destination, all while remaining undetected.
Still fast paced, yet more immersive.
I would not restrict that style of gameplay to just informant missions though. Any of the other missions could involve this type of gameplay as part of it. An NPC you have to pick pocket information from, or people talking about something you wish to listen in on, could move very quickly at times and you'd have to find ways to keep up while remaining inconspicuous.
Also, informants who wish to share information may want information in return. It's possible to go anywhere with that idea in mind. As an example, you could be required to stealthily scout an area and use eagle vision to gain information about NPC placement or special object locations.

Achievements:
Whether it be finding hidden items, killing x number of NPCs hiding all over the game, or the various unlockable achievements such as 'Enemy of the Poor', every optional challenge should provide some kind of incentive to do these things. They should also provide some kind of perk when completed that help add even more depth to gameplay in a way that is not game breaking.
Perks could range from anything to incredibly convenient shortcuts from one area of the city to another (such as a tunnel), an enhancement of an ability, or enhanced interaction with the various NPC types throughout the game that could be used in gameplay.
Currently these extra tasks are simply not viable enough to adequately enhance replayability, or gameplay longevity.

Many of the things I mentioned above are elements of the game that both many players and critics alike criticized as detracting from the overall quality of the game. Despite good sales for AC, there are people who are now wary about purchasing any sequels to the game based on their negative experiences with the first.
I am just hoping that game design focuses on addressing those issues so that any following AC title will do well! Hype has significantly less effect on the sales of a sequel!
Also longevity, and more importantly, replayability are incredibly important factors to success in a franchise. They should not be overlooked. They should be strengthened with each successive game. They are very much what affects a video game consumer's decision as to whether a title is a 'weekend rental' or a 'must buy'.

That's all I've got to share. Thanks to all who took the time to read.

kew414
12-11-2007, 07:50 PM
Those are some really awesome ideas you have there http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif
Yeah, I would also like there to be a better reward for finding flags and stuff than just, like, 10 gamer points http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

Siemirad
12-11-2007, 08:39 PM
I agree 100% http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif

I would also add possibility of trade, so you can improve/buy new equipment in exchange for money or flags that you collect.

Redfeather1975
12-11-2007, 11:10 PM
Siemirad, I like the idea that collectables and hunting templars could offer upgrades.
Instead of flags it would feel more emmersive if perhaps the Brotherhood had a treasury and it was raided.
You could still have templars to find and kill, but instead of flags you'd have small sparkling coins on the ground. Kinda more immersive and trickier to see from a distance.
Finding and taking care of 10 templars or collecting 25 stolen brotherhood coins, then returning to Masyaf or an assassin's bureau, could net you a new rank and upgrade.

Also, I see people talking about multiplayer ideas and thought that would be great for replayability!
I was sitting down earlier and thought about a multiplayer mode and wanted to share just for fun.
It's a long read. There's quite a few nuances to it.


Multiplayer game - Mercenaries

Setting:
A couple of different themed cities, each one containing 5-6 strongholds.
Players are divided into 2 groups of 8-16 mercenaries hired to protect one of the strongholds leaders.
The house they are hired to protect is random. So there will be 3-4 strongholds not associated with players.

Goal: Kill the noble of the house the opposing team is hired to protect.
or...
Steal enough treasure from the other strongholds and bring them back to your stronghold's treasury.

Players:
All players are equipped with the standard weapons found in the game.
Players start with a synchronization bar of 20 units.
If players are killed, they are respawned within the closest stronghold their team has control of at 2 minute intervals. Each time a player is killed their synchronization bar is permanaently lowered by 5 units, but cannot be lowered past 5 units.
Players choose a model identical to the various NPCs in the game. This is important because players are at their most vulnerable when recognized as being players!
NPCs will walk around naturally, pause at merchant stands or even run through the city. Sometimes they will even start fights with each other.
This coupled with your generic looks, makes blending in and not appearing like a player controlled character possible at any time. If you can trick opposing players into thinking you are just another NPC you generally have the upperhand.
Running around might seem like a bad idea, but some NPCs will also run (especially if you quickly do something to freak them out), so it's still possible to blend in as an NPC when running. If another player does suspect you are also a player and follows you, that's a good way to identify them! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
Walking around with bodyguards is sure to get you noticed. However you have a huge advantage in combat. Bodyguards are tough! (See bodyguards below)
Players with weapons drawn cannot sprint as fast as players with no weapon drawn. You can sheath your weapon, give chase and catch up to use the tackle move. However the other player, just like in the single player game, can use citizens and merchant stands to slow you down. When giving chase, don't forget that you could be following bait right into a player ambush! D:
Hightlighting, then pressing the target button, then the freehand button performs context sensitive actions. These include motioning special NPCs to follow or halt (such as bodyguards or nobles), pulling stronghold gate levers to open and close gates, or picking up crates to bring to your treasury or hide.

Player vs. Player hidden blade:
The hidden blade works differrently against players. Here are the differences.
Hidden blade can only be used when targeting a person with the target button.
If a player is facing you or has their weapon drawn, they will ALWAYS fend off your hidden blade attack.
If a player trips or falls and lands face first, they will NEVER be able to stop a hidden blade attack.
In any other situation, if the player is targeted by someone who has hidden blade selected, or is being targeted by someone who switches to the hidden blade weapon, that player will get a quick flash to alert them that their 6th sense suspects danger and to be prepared. If they press O right when a hidden blade attempt is made they will counter it and push the other player back.
In other words, if you plan on killing with the hidden blade you need to get close enough to them without them suspecting you. Otherwise you tip them off to get ready to counter it. For example stand at a merchant stand and wait for them to brush by...very quickly target+x to nail em with the hidden blade!
If you suspect an NPC of actually being a player, just go about your normal business by blending in, but target them with the hidden blade selected. They'll get that warning flash. See if they flinch and break their cover without exposing your own cover. XD

Throwing knives:
Throwing knives do not instant kill other players. It causes damage to their synchonization bar and makes them stagger backwards.
This is a good way to test if an NPC is a player, however guards will freak out on you and citizens will run away like crazy.
Any opposing players in the vicinity watching will now know you are another player.
You can pickpocket more knives from NPCs...and other players! Steal their knives then run away laughing. XD

Counter kills/Combo kills:
Players can only counter kill/combo kill another player when that other player's synchonization bar is 5 units or less.
If you are in battle and your synch bar is reduced to 5 or less units, don't stick around! Unless you got nerves of steel. :O

NPCs:
Noble - This is the lady or gentleman of the house.
If they are killed and a player group was associated with that house, that group loses. So protecting the head of the house is advised.
Targeting your teams noble and pressing O will motion them to follow you. Pressing O again will allow them to continue on their own.
You can lead them to any area in the city for protection, although the stronghold is the most fortified.
There is one noble per stronghold. Their model is randomly chosen and the only indication as to what they look like is a portrait of them within their stronghold. This means players starting off protecting that house have immediate access to knowing what the head of that house looks like, but in order to know what the head of the other households look like, you must sneak into their strongholds and view their portrait. After this point your eagle vision will make them light up like a christmas tree if they are closeby. If you can figure out who a number of opposing players are, and see them sticking close to or leading a particular NPC, chances are it's their noble! D:
Killing nobles of strongholds not belonging to either team, instead forces them to surrender. All their NPCs are allied with your team and that noble's bodyguards can be directed to follow you or your teammates. This alliance only lasts until the other team manages to get to that noble and threaten them. At that point all the NPCs and bodyguards will ally to that team. Meaning if the bodyguards are accompanying you and the other team gets to and threatens that noble, those bodyguards will turn on you!

Archers - These are a form of long range guard for the strongholds. If they identify you, you appear on the GPS of the player team that controls that stronghold, until you manage to find a hiding spot.

Soldiers - These are short range guards found in and around the strongholds. If they identify you, they will 'mark you' and hunt you until you break line of site and hide. Being marked means that soldiers will recognize you from that point on if you get too close to them.

Bodyguards - These protect the nobles quarters as well as patrol the stronghold's treasury, which is where the crates of gold are kept if your team is trying to win the match by collecting enough gold. They cannot be counter killed, are good at breaking your guard, and will counter throws. Getting swarmed by these is incredibly bad. They will chase you to the outergrounds, but no further. It's possible to distract them by luring them into the outergrounds of the stronghold though! Yah, for teamwork. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
Also when a noble belonging to a non-player stronghold is threatened, their bodyguards can be directed to accompany you using target+freehand. If they are already following you it will motion them to stand and secure the area. In this manner bodyguards can be made to leave the stronghold. They will follow you wherever you wish.
A very big advantage if you choose to use brute force in the match. Especially if you gain control of every house, by threatening all the nobles.

Soldier/Archer/Bodyguard NPCs don't respawn. Try not to kill many of them if you plan on taking over a stronghold.

Phew! That's all I managed to think of. My head hurts. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Siemirad
12-12-2007, 07:52 PM
Cool! If this could be done it would be the best multiplayer game ever!

Also, some kind of deathmath could be interesting... sort of battle including dozens of players online with simple rules like 'capture the flag' or 'top of the hill'.

Ambience could be like this:

siege - part of the city walls with few siege towers (like this you can see in front of Acra on the left, actually remainings)

battle - just a battlefield and two armies in many different enviroments like desert, river, forest or mountains.

you could play as light armoured agile Masyaf solider or heavy armoured knight like templar or hospitalier. you could have possibility to choose your caracter from all types of armies: jewish, saracen, english, masyaf forces, hospitalier or templars. But coosing for example saracen you could only join game where this army is fighting so there will be no funny mix of nations in the one army. also there should be possibility to add bots so battle could look more realistic when there is not enough players or when someone wish to play battle mode along http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Redfeather1975, they should hire you in the Ubisoft http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

olendvcook
12-12-2007, 08:04 PM
co-op