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View Full Version : AC:B - combat evolved or combat desolved?



adarwinter
10-04-2010, 10:36 AM
I am sure im not the only one that noticed how combat was dumbed down from AC1 to AC2.

the need for good timing and lil skill is gone in AC2 with the emission of many aspects -
no more defense breaks.
no more need for delicate timing with counters.
no more power attacks that take longer and throw u off your counter timing.
no more enemies that can both dodge AND counter.
no more enemies that can grab you.
no more challenge when running away (near sighted AI).
no more need to escape to end a mission - all u need to do is kill the target and u can die the next second...

many of what made the combat in AC1 a lil more sophisticated was gone in AC2 and , IMO, for no good reason. more moves added but IMO they just simplified the combat to an unbalanced state where fighting with fists is just like fighting with a sword. there is no bigger risk VS bigger reward. same with fighting with the hidden blades.

the worse things about AC2's combat are:

a)enemies are divided into groups\types and each type can only do one special move - dodge, attack or power attack. there is no longer a need to be prepared for anything. enemies feel like robots that can not surprise nor adapt.

b)kill combos - the fact that u can just combo kill almost anyone without most enemies ever blocking the combo or stepping up to intervene in a middle of a combo making this feature an overkill.

in AC2 it seemed like UBI wanted to give more to the player but instead of balancing this out by making the AI more deadly and interesting they just went and made Ezio so powerful that combat has tured from fun to a chore. if u can never lose in combat than u are not excited about it and u just want to get the combat over with.

I am just curious as whether ACB will improve upon this. in the latest walkthrough all i saw from the combat is it getting bumb and dumber. one hit kills all over the place and enemies that STILL stare at you instead of attacking and now im scared that the combat is even more shallow that how it was in AC2.
I read that the combat is supposed to be more on the offensive side compared to AC2 and AC1 but to me it just looks like Ezio can kill more easily if he initiates moves instead of making him slightly more at risk if he is just waiting for a counter.

empowering one aspect without empowering the opposite aspect is not an improvement, UBI. it's un-balancing.

i just hope UBI gets it. as the AC franchise progresses im more and more concerned that it's going the FABLE way - to kids and casual gamers with no regard to ppl how know action games and want to use their gaming skills and feel challenged and satisfied with success.

adarwinter
10-04-2010, 10:36 AM
I am sure im not the only one that noticed how combat was dumbed down from AC1 to AC2.

the need for good timing and lil skill is gone in AC2 with the emission of many aspects -
no more defense breaks.
no more need for delicate timing with counters.
no more power attacks that take longer and throw u off your counter timing.
no more enemies that can both dodge AND counter.
no more enemies that can grab you.
no more challenge when running away (near sighted AI).
no more need to escape to end a mission - all u need to do is kill the target and u can die the next second...

many of what made the combat in AC1 a lil more sophisticated was gone in AC2 and , IMO, for no good reason. more moves added but IMO they just simplified the combat to an unbalanced state where fighting with fists is just like fighting with a sword. there is no bigger risk VS bigger reward. same with fighting with the hidden blades.

the worse things about AC2's combat are:

a)enemies are divided into groups\types and each type can only do one special move - dodge, attack or power attack. there is no longer a need to be prepared for anything. enemies feel like robots that can not surprise nor adapt.

b)kill combos - the fact that u can just combo kill almost anyone without most enemies ever blocking the combo or stepping up to intervene in a middle of a combo making this feature an overkill.

in AC2 it seemed like UBI wanted to give more to the player but instead of balancing this out by making the AI more deadly and interesting they just went and made Ezio so powerful that combat has tured from fun to a chore. if u can never lose in combat than u are not excited about it and u just want to get the combat over with.

I am just curious as whether ACB will improve upon this. in the latest walkthrough all i saw from the combat is it getting bumb and dumber. one hit kills all over the place and enemies that STILL stare at you instead of attacking and now im scared that the combat is even more shallow that how it was in AC2.
I read that the combat is supposed to be more on the offensive side compared to AC2 and AC1 but to me it just looks like Ezio can kill more easily if he initiates moves instead of making him slightly more at risk if he is just waiting for a counter.

empowering one aspect without empowering the opposite aspect is not an improvement, UBI. it's un-balancing.

i just hope UBI gets it. as the AC franchise progresses im more and more concerned that it's going the FABLE way - to kids and casual gamers with no regard to ppl how know action games and want to use their gaming skills and feel challenged and satisfied with success.

mustangmaniak20
10-04-2010, 12:04 PM
Good point.However, you cant deny it makes the game more fun and enables you to see more horrific eye candy.

GermainZ
10-04-2010, 12:07 PM
Difficulty settings = Win.

PlagueDoctor357
10-04-2010, 12:08 PM
He can admit that.

I was so disappointed by AC2s combat I felt a little sad inside haha.

I mean, they add a big ugly health bar. A health bar, sheesh.

In AC1, if you could time it good you could get any kill you wanted.

I could take guys out in awesome combos by just hitting the attack button again when the swords connect.

Then in AC2 you have to wittle down their little healthbar and then do the timing it's just not as fun.

Now we got Ezio in this new game doing Batman Esque combat taking out groups of people like nothing.

Easier and easier everytime.

adarwinter
10-04-2010, 12:38 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mustangmaniak20:
Good point.However, you cant deny it makes the game more fun and enables you to see more horrific eye candy. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

there is no reason why the great new moves should come on the expense of the old balance.
if the new moves came ON TOP of the old ones than i'd be happy. before i bought AC2 i thought that this is the case. then i started fighting and thought - i can hold block and go to the bathroom and come back and nothing will happen to me. this is an invulnerability button. also i can combo and the AI wont even resist. and what happened to the skill it took to make a counter? now i can press counter anytime. only knives require a bit of timing but they are weaker so what's the point of using them?

there were a lot a new cool moves that were a lot of fun to pull off but the combat was hollow. it was button mashing.

im not even touching on how ezio had too much health and too much medicine etc. im just talking about the depth of the combat system going down the drain.

Batmak:AA had a very very simple combat system. much much more simple than AC, yet it was balanced. it was very very gamy and made no sense but it was BALANCED. enemies constantly attacked, u constantly had to be skillful to counter in time, u had to make sure u position yourself right and attacking the right ppl. it was really simple yet smart.

AC1 has a rather complex system compared to batman yet a very very shallow system. it makes no sense in the basic gameplay logic of it and it only caters to ppl who have no clue on how to play.

sadly the PC version im waiting for will only arrive next year or whatever and by then i will have a lot of time to watch youtube videos and see if the combat made another step backwards in design.
i dont want the ability to one-hit-kill everyone with ease! i want enemies that constantly attacking making me constantly juggling between attacking and defending without giving me a all-around-best-weapon like it was until now - being defensive and only countering, which is easy to do and enemies can't do nothing about it besides the rare brutes.

if i was to improve the combat the first thing i would do is bring the defense break back and make the AI use it if ezio is holding block for more than a second. bam! problems solved.

the speed of combat in AC is a lot more realistic than in almost any other game so why not compensate for that by involving new game mechanics?!
like having the need to "aim" towards the attacking enemy in order to block him or at least in order to counter him. it'd make enemies attacking from the back a problem. why would enemies circle around ezio if attacking from behind is just as easy to block as attacking from the front?

@ PlagueDoctor357 - im also afraid of the ability to kill 15 enemies without ever risking your life. the easiness of combat in AC2 made stealth useless. it wasnt necessary to sneak anywhere if u could take on the entire national guard on your own.
and if ezio can handle 10 enemies with greater ease in ACB than a mission should have ezio fight 20 enemies to counter-balance.
AC2 made enemies worse in combat but also smaller in numbers. it made no sense to me.

the worse thing is that UBI thinks that if the game is easy than more ppl finish it and that's a good thing.
yeah, AC2 was easy. i finished it and that's exactly why im probably not going to buy brotherhood unless a mod comes out to make it satisfying (like the tool for AC2).

Iskander_Estel
10-04-2010, 09:17 PM
during the first single player demo from E3 (you know, the one where villa Auditore is beeing detroyed) the enemies seemed faster end they could atack you while you're doing a combo, so you have to counter him, or interrupt and block...
seem easy but you have to mantain you're attencion...

but on the exotic gameplay the fight's looks so easy, you can start a combo and even kill brutes with a common sword... so now i don't know what to think... look like the only way the developers found to force you on stealt it's to dsynchronize you if you give away your possition.

so let's see how it works at the end.

AC-FANBOY
10-04-2010, 10:47 PM
It looks far too easy now. Well, Ezio is a grand master assassin now...So...LETS OWN THE BORGIA!

Account_Deleted
10-04-2010, 10:56 PM
tl;dr
their new motto is
" strike first, kill first"

they'd send more enemies agasint Ezio, and well trained i suspect

phil.llllll
10-04-2010, 11:23 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Account_Deleted:
tl;dr
their new motto is
" strike first, kill first"
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's why you should actually read posts before posting. The problem isn't exactly being able to kill first, it's that the AI sits there and lets them without putting up a fight - hence it's very unbalanced.

I'm hoping that the AI in the footage they showed was intentionally done that way to show off some new moves and hopefully it'll be much improved in the final game - like they said it would from the beginning.

Account_Deleted
10-04-2010, 11:32 PM
they'd find something to balance it rather less health or medicine at least