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Knight Of The Skies
05-28-2004, 08:56 AM
My apologise for my english isnt perfect. I cant help thinking is it really posible for a plane to glide without its engine turned on. I think it could glide for some time , but not as long as in il2:fb. I have read some articles of airplane crashes and in some of them it says that the crash occured because the engine of the plane stopped working and the plane was badly damaged or fully destroyd. In Il2:fb youre always able to bellyland your blane even if its engine doesnt work at all. What do you experts say?

P.S im sorry if this topic has been posted earlier

Knight Of The Skies
05-28-2004, 08:56 AM
My apologise for my english isnt perfect. I cant help thinking is it really posible for a plane to glide without its engine turned on. I think it could glide for some time , but not as long as in il2:fb. I have read some articles of airplane crashes and in some of them it says that the crash occured because the engine of the plane stopped working and the plane was badly damaged or fully destroyd. In Il2:fb youre always able to bellyland your blane even if its engine doesnt work at all. What do you experts say?

P.S im sorry if this topic has been posted earlier

christopher65
05-28-2004, 08:58 AM
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
this is not always the case-just keep on practising the belly landings and youll see what i mean!! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

SUPERAEREO
05-28-2004, 09:03 AM
Any plane in FB could also safely glide in reality.

Gliding is actually rather easy, the problem is finding somewhere to land within easy reach and with a reasonably simple approach, because obviously one cannot make a second pass when landing.

S!

"The first time I ever saw a jet, I shot it down."
Chuck Yaeger

Zeus-cat
05-28-2004, 09:13 AM
I read a story in old Reader's Digest of a Canadian plane ( I believe it was a 767) that ran out of fuel at cruising altitude (about 35,000 feet). It glided a considerable distance, something like 20 miles and made an emergency landing on an abandoned runway. The pilot was a very experienced glider pilot which helped a great deal.

The incident occurred when they plane was refueled between flights. The pilot ordered 10,000 from the refueling truck. The truck put 10,000 pounds of fuel on board. The pilot was expecting 10,000kg of fuel, so he only got 45% of the fuel he was expecting. The plane ran out of fuel in mid-flight. To make matters worse, the cockpit was one of the first planes to have an all electronic cockpit, so when the engines shutdown the pilots lost all instruments. They deployed the emergency air ram to spin the emergency turbine and got partial electrical power back, but they had one heck of a flight. Great story if you can find it.

Zeus-cat

Knight Of The Skies
05-28-2004, 09:28 AM
Ok , thanks for your information. I'l try to find the story of the 767 , sounds quite interesting.

Cold_Gambler
05-28-2004, 09:34 AM
I think he's referring to the Air Canada (?) flight that landed at Gimli, Manitoba about a decade ago... More recently (3 years ago?) the same thing happened to an Air Transat flight from Toronto to Portugal- ran out of fuel over the Atlantic but was able to safely land in the Azores.

John_Stag
05-28-2004, 09:42 AM
Any aircraft can glide as long as it has sufficient airspeed and altitude. Problems start when you run out of one, or both. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>:Sergeant! Where are you taking those vultures?

Sergeant: Officers to the mess, NCO's to the Guardroom, Sir!

:Like hell you are, they made this mess, get them to clean it up!

Sergeant: But what about the officers, Sir?

:Give 'em a bloody shovel.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

AdEridanus
05-28-2004, 09:42 AM
If you're looking for the story, the plane has often been called the "Gimli Glider", so that may help you find it.

Chadburn
05-28-2004, 09:59 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Knight Of The Skies:
My apologise for my english isnt perfect. I cant help thinking is it really posible for a plane to glide without its engine turned on. I think it could glide for some time , but not as long as in il2:fb. I have read some articles of airplane crashes and in some of them it says that the crash occured because the engine of the plane stopped working and the plane was badly damaged or fully destroyd. In Il2:fb youre always able to bellyland your blane even if its engine doesnt work at all. What do you experts say?

P.S im sorry if this topic has been posted earlier<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Just this morning I was reading about the the Battle of Britain. Erwin Leykauf said quite often the low-fuel light would come on in his Bf109E while returning across the channel to France after dogfighting. In the particular tale I just read he said that the light came on while he was still over England but close to Dover. He said he was not worried, however, because he knew from his altitude of 4000m he would be able to glide home, a distance of about 35km.

http://home.cogeco.ca/~jkinley/FB_JG27.jpg

Fennec_P
05-28-2004, 10:16 AM
In the past I've tried gliding some of the planes in FB, and they seem to glide very well. At least, good compared to an F-16.

Generally speaking, the mainstay fighters seem to have glide ratios around 8/1 or 9/1. For every 1km of altitude, you can glide about 8-9 km horizontally. Like Chadburn said, a 109 at 4000m would be able to glide at least 35-40 km. At 10,000m, you could glide over 90km.

The best gliders seem to be low drag planes, like P-51 and Me-262. These can peek over a 10/1 ratio. The worst gliders are high drag, like the Stuka or P.11. Weight or wing loading doesn't seem to make much difference.

Best gliding speed appears to be about the same as the best climb speed. However, gliding at slightly higher or lower speeds will yield about the same distance.

I have not been able to find any official figures for glide ratios for any other these planes. I wonder if anyone knows where to find this information?

[This message was edited by Fennec_P on Fri May 28 2004 at 09:33 AM.]

lindyman
05-28-2004, 11:16 AM
I guess this comes as a surprise, but to me 8:1-10:1 sounds low. A not too modern GA aircraft has about that glide, and they're not very aerodynamic. I think 8:1 is about the same as a paraglider.

I'm too as surprised, however, since I fairly often practice deadstick landings (you never know when you'll need it, but when you do, you really do!,) and I definitely feel that most aircraft in FB glides better than the GA aircraft I'm used to.
_
/Bjorn.

ploughman
05-28-2004, 11:19 AM
On the subject of gliding commercial jets, there was a BA 747 that suffered a 4-engine
flame-out over Java, the result of flying through volcanic ash thrown up by the eruption of Mt Gunung in 1983 (or 2). It lost 20 000 ft of altitude before being able to restart an engine; the mountains of Java are 12,000ft high. The pilot said afterwards that he really didn't like gliders very much.

The volcanic dust had effectively sandblasted the entire jet, making windows opaque and the friction converted the aircraft into a charged particle that rendered the radio ineffective. The dust blasted the engines,eroding some of fan blades to virtually half their original size, and yet the pilot was able to land at Halim in Jakarta on intruments and all four engines. Thank god for Rolls Royce.

FennecP
05-28-2004, 01:22 PM
Numbers for AEP. 0% fuel @ best climb speed. Tested from 2000m to ground.

TB-3: 7/1
109G2: 7.5/1
109K4: 7.5/1
Spit Vb: 9/1
190D9: 9/1
B239: 9.5/1
A6M early: 10/1
Me-163: 10/1
Me-2621A: 10.5/1
P-51DNA: 10.5/1
YP-80: 11.5/1


The low drag machines are king, with the best being the YP-80. The low-loaded crowd aren't bad either, with the A6M and B-239 getting good numbers. The drag machines are poorest, one of the worst being the TB-3. The 109s don't glide well at all, for whatever reason.

Also note that I used auto prop pitch in all cases. It maybe be possible to stretch out the glide in some planes by using different pitch, or by feathering the prop.

[This message was edited by FennecP on Fri May 28 2004 at 12:32 PM.]

ptegomerpyle
05-29-2004, 08:28 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ploughman:
eroding some of fan blades to virtually half their original size<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Saves having to feather them http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

http://img3.photobucket.com/albums/v32/PrivatePyle/minge.jpg

YouthInAsia
05-29-2004, 08:48 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by AdEridanus:
If you're looking for the story, the plane has often been called the "Gimli Glider", so that may help you find it.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Here's a website with the story of the "Gimli Glider" - with pics:

The Gimli Glider (http://www.elchineroconcepts.com/Technology%20Folder/gimli_glider.htm)

Jieitai_Tsunami
05-29-2004, 10:05 AM
I've glided home many times in this game. It is hard work and you can't go far but it can be done. Although I think because the aircraft are not designed for this they can't go hard.
I wonder if there are thermals in this game. I nether thought of that hehe.

SithSpeeder
05-29-2004, 11:48 AM
OK everyone...hands up! I'm hijacking this thread (as I think the original poster's question has been answered) http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/smileys-gun2.gif.

In IL-2 FB, what is the appropriate prop pitch setting to minimize drag? Is it 0%? 50%? I'm thinking of the case where your engine dies (or frequently, in my case, gets shot and killed) and you are trying to make it back over friendly territory so you have to glide as long as possible. Is the prop pitch/drag modelled in this game?

* _54th_Speeder *

http://members.cox.net/~ijhutch/_images/400x200sig.jpg

IL2-chuter
05-29-2004, 12:12 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by FennecP:
Numbers for AEP. 0% fuel @ best climb speed. Tested from 2000m to ground.

TB-3: 7/1
109G2: 7.5/1
109K4: 7.5/1
Spit Vb: 9/1
190D9: 9/1
B239: 9.5/1
A6M early: 10/1
Me-163: 10/1
Me-2621A: 10.5/1
P-51DNA: 10.5/1
YP-80: 11.5/1


The low drag machines are king, with the best being the YP-80. The low-loaded crowd aren't bad either, with the A6M and B-239 getting good numbers. The drag machines are poorest, one of the worst being the TB-3. The 109s don't glide well at all, for whatever reason.

Also note that I used auto prop pitch in all cases. It maybe be possible to stretch out the glide in some planes by using different pitch, or by feathering the prop.

[This message was edited by FennecP on Fri May 28 2004 at 12:32 PM.]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>



The German fighters should have had props feathered but I don't think it's modelled in game (more difficult to tell without feathered prop graphic). Have read Heinz Knoke's account of flying a brand new G-6 with coolant shot out switching engine on/off (as engine cooled/overheated)and feathering prop (while engine off) to maximize glide. He came up short (much to his mechanics despair).


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"I fly only Full Real in Il2 Forgotten Battles." -Mark Donohue

darkhorizon11
05-29-2004, 02:49 PM
Hey, yeah I was curious about this. In real life every aircraft has an L/D max ratio. Basically its where there is the biggest distance between the amount of lift being produced and the amount of drag being produced. It happens a certain airspeed called velocity best glide which is obviously different for each plane. Weight has nothing to do with L/D max or best glide speed. (Unless its bombs in which case the bombs are creating parasite drag).

My question is does anyone have some performance charts showing best glide speed with no engine for any of these planes??

mortoma
05-29-2004, 03:18 PM
One of my most memorable missions in FB was once when I accidentally flamed out my engines in a 262 and it was before Oleg allowed them to be restarted in midair. I was just barely able to make my airfield and once down and stopped on the runway I was able to restart and go back to battle. Upon return to battle I was able to shoot down a LA-7 on the a$$ of one of my AI compatriots, thus saving him. I had shot down 3 planes before flaming out. I also recently had a
tough mission in 109K4 where I had shot down a couple La-5FNs but then had trouble with two pesky Yak-3s. I could have outrun them and gone home but I wanted to kill at least one of them.
I was able to finally climb above them and hit one of them on a downward dive, crippling him ( he crashed later ). I had to keep looking at my
fuel guage the whole time and just after I crippled the Yak, I was almost out, so at 7,000 meters I outran the remaining Yak and then I killed my engine to save the remaining fuel and glided towards home. Once there I miscalculated slightly and could not make it to the threshold of the runway by pure gliding, would have landed short. Then I remembered I still had a little fuel left so I restarted the engine and had just enough fuel to get me to the runway. I ran out about 100 meters from the threshold and had enough speed to glide the rest of the way, and made a fairly nice touch down. Doesn't get any better than that!!!

Tully__
05-29-2004, 07:53 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by darkhorizon11:
Weight has nothing to do with L/D max or best glide speed. (Unless its bombs in which case the bombs are creating parasite drag).
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not quite correct. Weight has nothing to do with L : D ratio but more weight will increase best glide speed. Within quite a broad range of weights the glide ratio that results at corresponding best glide speeds remains more or less constant (in real life, don't know about game physics).

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