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regulator7
04-23-2007, 03:28 AM
is it just me or anyone noticed that the ai skills in fb 1946 are inferior to the ones in the other il2 games? is it more arcadish?? for example yaks and la 7 in quick combat level ace in 1946 are almost easy prey , not the same in fb, originalil2.

regulator7
04-23-2007, 03:28 AM
is it just me or anyone noticed that the ai skills in fb 1946 are inferior to the ones in the other il2 games? is it more arcadish?? for example yaks and la 7 in quick combat level ace in 1946 are almost easy prey , not the same in fb, originalil2.

stalkervision
04-23-2007, 04:49 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by regulator7:
is it just me or anyone noticed that the ai skills in fb 1946 are inferior to the ones in the other il2 games? is it more arcadish?? for example yaks and la 7 in quick combat level ace in 1946 are almost easy prey , not the same in fb, originalil2. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You may be right. I have the original Il-2 with patches and I believed the Ai was a whole lot better skillwise then this version IMO..

p-11.cAce
04-23-2007, 06:35 AM
IMHO the AI are about the same as they have always been - though I fly much better now than I did then http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif We just had a 7+ page post about how uber the AI are though so who knows? Certainly and area where ones perceptions are the rule.

TgD Thunderbolt56
04-23-2007, 06:50 AM
It's just you.

While the AI is sketchy and predictable at times, it hasn't changed much in the last several iterations.

BrotherVoodoo
04-23-2007, 10:19 AM
Seems to be the same old AI to me. As you get better the AI become easier to take down. You also get used to their tactics as time goes on.

crazyivan1970
04-23-2007, 10:30 AM
I`m with BrotherVoodoo on this one.
Also, i think AI is better now then in original IL-2. I think you guys forgot how it was. I still have it installed and differences are obvious.

XyZspineZyX
04-23-2007, 10:44 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

The sim is more "arcade-like" because of the ease with which you can defeat the AI? Um...both your level of proficiency in regards to predicting AI actions, and your general proficiency at flying flight sims, has (I hope!) gone up since you first flew the original Il-2, yes?

Or no?

TC_Stele
04-23-2007, 10:47 AM
I've noticed the AI will keep chasing you even if you're hovering just 5 feet off the ground. Can't use that trick anymore.

Pollack2006
04-23-2007, 11:00 AM
The AI has more tactical finesse but in regards of a good knife-fight the current AI (since v.4.00) they are a huge drop in skill-level.

Bearcat99
04-23-2007, 11:15 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by crazyivan1970:
I`m with BrotherVoodoo on this one.
Also, i think AI is better now then in original IL-2. I think you guys forgot how it was. I still have it installed and differences are obvious. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree. I have seen AI stall in a simulated panic move... While I still have the AI som,etimes fly wing to my attacker... or go for my target instead of attacking his wingman who is lining up on me... overall Id say the AI is better.

crazyivan1970
04-23-2007, 11:35 AM
I think... the main problem with AI is - It is not consistent. I have seen in COOPs AI fly incredibly good, sometimes you couldnt tell the difference between them and humans... but in the same time... while you still in amazement, you see AI doing something incredible stupid.

WWSensei
04-23-2007, 11:58 AM
I haven't a significant difference in the AI since the one patch where they started flying as pairs. They still do the same dozen or so set moves in situations and can still be defeated pretty easily. They do become a threat in large numbers but otherwise no, they aren't much different.

DKoor
04-23-2007, 12:21 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by WWSensei:
I haven't a significant difference in the AI since the one patch where they started flying as pairs. They still do the same dozen or so set moves in situations and can still be defeated pretty easily. They do become a threat in large numbers but otherwise no, they aren't much different. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>This is true.
I bolded Sensei's key sentence.
I guess that Ai is in their "BnZ" mode, they will always seek alt advantage nowadays. Wasn't like that in the past.
I guess that nowadays it's quite harder to fight versus several aces at one time just because of their "seek for energy"... but otherwise...
I like that they got rid of that "death spiral" which affected them in few patches (when hit in wings even minor hit they just spiral down).
Also cool thing is that they wont start to evade on 600m from us if we open fire on them, so we wont be able to do that "trick" anymore in order to catch up with them fast.

For those of you that forgot how it all looked like back then check this out:
QMB realistic sett.: Bf-109G6AS vs 4xACE LA-7 -- FB V2.00 (http://www.esnips.com/doc/c7ee4cad-6a55-4ed0-a835-781ba3681e19/DKoorBf109G-vs-4xLA7-200)

See the difference? Try to use the same approach now, and they'll blast you in a matter of seconds. But back then, this approach worked miracles. Total opposite from now. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

ytareh
04-23-2007, 02:39 PM
Motivated by this thread Ive just flown an hour on IL2 (the (last?)version with the BI Rocket plane)
I usually fly Average skilled opponents (I know the Ace are so much better but ...er...em... the Ace are SO much better-and Vets seem about the same as Ace)
Anyway comparing a few of my fave set QMB missions there is no doubt in my mind that AI are more skilled now.You can just fly up behind IL2s and pick them off one by one.Try that in 4.08 and theyre telepathically detecting you , dropping bombs and breaking away into dives.
I did wonder if weapons were harder to get on target ...seemed to be shooting needles instead of tree trunks in some cases...(same convergence ,realistic gunnery etc)
Some glaringly obvious inferior things like the pilot models (LOL!) Mk108 mg lik rate of fire and the unbelievably radioactive lizard green of IL2 and I16.Trim ONLY works in taps not continuous key pressure,WEP over rides throttle etc etc ...prefer the slimline 109 gunsight cross and its the same as one in BOB:WOV though...

SlowBurn68
04-23-2007, 02:59 PM
4.2 had the best AI IMHO.

horseback
04-23-2007, 03:22 PM
Naah. FB/AEP 2.04, be sure. Pacific Fighters hosed it all up.

cheers

horseback

crazyivan1970
04-23-2007, 03:34 PM
Are you saying it because you feel like it horseback.... or you 100% sure. Case in 2.04 AI was a turkey shoot. rookie, veteran, ace - doesnt matter.

DKoor
04-23-2007, 03:48 PM
CrazyIvan with that remark "turkey shot" in V2.04... I don't seem to recall what they have been like back then (although I have a track with Ai V2.00) but they always were almost "turkey shots" 1vs1 AFAIK (from day one).

When you fly vs. multiple bandits then this V4.04-V4.08 must be the toughest time by far.

I can understand if someone says that it doesn't get better than this (intelligence wise), that Ai Spitfire can't realize that he actually can outturn me in 190, but... I'd like to see Ai against which I'm at least able to fly realistically; eg. using RL tactics.

Will they be more porked, more easy to shoot down?
I don't care.
At least I can "pretend" that I'm flying vs "humans" when I outclimb Ai Spitfire in 109 (although I know I can equally successfully outturn it as well).

crazyivan1970
04-23-2007, 04:13 PM
Back in FB days i flew COOPs for the most part.... and AI was very easy to shoot down... they simply didnt defend themselves. I still host COOPs and AI suprized me more then in one occasion, i dont even wait anymore as i use to, to fill out COOP. AI does pretty good work. They use tactics, they use streingth of the aircraft they in...and they shoot pretty good. So yea, i`ll take this AI over previous any day.

lowfighter
04-23-2007, 09:06 PM
Nicest AI patch for me 4.02.
As for the early fb versions like 1.0 do you remember how easy was to fool a b&z plane to turn with you while you flying an il2? I remember having set 4 FW190 against me in an il2 and shot all down after I fooled them to loose all advantage and crawl at 300 Km/h on the deck. Not anymore possible. That's really nice and realistic.
Some defensive combat maneuvres especially when done by planes which have simultaneously good turn and good speed (like the Spitfire and Bf109) characteristics look less realistic to me starting with 4.04 patch.
Seems also that starting 4.04 I see poorer ground attack handling, more AI would crash when ordered to repeat ground attack. In fact to me this is a big issue, I see on average half of the ground attack planes I command crash in a mission on flat or almost flat land IF I give them the order to repeat attack a couple of times. This wasn't a problem before and I think it's also an 4.04 and after issue because that's the pack which introduced pretty funny AI flying at low altitude. Seen already a couple of times a fighter flying reverted at 100 m for 5-10 seconds for apparently no reason with me on his 6. If you see that kind of thing it's pretty sad.
No matter, we'll get one more patch and things won't change. Overall it's not so bad, I liked 4.02 better, but almost everybody said the AI was weak then. Yes it was. But they flew more like humans in REAL planes perhaps. With 4.02 I learned from them a mild style of fighting I don't want to give up... because ther's no bravery in pulling high g turns in front of a computer. Nor diving at maximum speed and recovering at 5 m altitude.

VW-IceFire
04-23-2007, 09:52 PM
So the AI is a bit funky and that makes it arcadish? You folks need to go play an actual arcade game...then come back. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

tigertalon
04-23-2007, 10:53 PM
Key question here is what settings you fly. Fly cockpit off/externals on, and ace AI is quite easy to defeat.

Flying full real versus ace AI on the other hand can be a pain since AI always "uses" easy settings
- no cockpit view (it can pull 60 degree high speed deflection shot),
- externals on (they always miraculausly see you even when you approach them from low 6 and break in the moment you want to fire - "using" F6)
- no blackouts redouts,
- no engine overheat

AI skill should be depending on settings human player is using. Or at least reduced when flying FR.

Aaron_GT
04-24-2007, 02:00 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">You also get used to their tactics as time goes on. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is true. You get to know what the AI is going to do, or what sequence of moves it is going to make.

I still reckon EAW had the best AI.

regulator7
04-24-2007, 02:11 AM
hello thanks for your opinions people. well i think that yes, flying skills get better with experience but i played the same quick combat in both games and i found it easier in fb 1946 to shoot the enemy dowm. Maybe you are right about the ai doing somethings better than before but i agree with pollack2006 the bots skills in dogfights, turning fights,(thats what you mean with knife fights do you?)are a lot poorer,for example in fb 1946 i can sometimes turn inside yak3s or la7s with the bf 109 f4,i cant do that in fb , turning fighters almost always outturn me,i have to use climbing to get rid of them, turning fighters in fb always go into horizantal scissors with you taking advantage of their turning abilities,not the case in 1946. Other thing is the boom and zoomm fighters i agree with you they are more skilled now ,but turning fighters skills really mediocre.