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Red_Russian13
07-21-2004, 07:14 PM
Greetings All;

My observations could be wrong, and I think they must be as no one has posted this yet, but I just flew my normal ride (Bf-109G-6) and it seems the Mk 108 rate of fire is faster than before. I only say this because I fly the 109 all the time, and usually with the 108 cannon. It just seems a bit faster to me. Anyone else observe this?

My observations are not saying that this is right or wrong, as I'm not an expert in the ROF of German WWII cannons. I'm merely stating my observance. My brain could be fried from the sun and my perception could be wrong. Just wanted to know your opinion of this. Let me know what you think.

Red Russian

Red_Russian13
07-21-2004, 07:14 PM
Greetings All;

My observations could be wrong, and I think they must be as no one has posted this yet, but I just flew my normal ride (Bf-109G-6) and it seems the Mk 108 rate of fire is faster than before. I only say this because I fly the 109 all the time, and usually with the 108 cannon. It just seems a bit faster to me. Anyone else observe this?

My observations are not saying that this is right or wrong, as I'm not an expert in the ROF of German WWII cannons. I'm merely stating my observance. My brain could be fried from the sun and my perception could be wrong. Just wanted to know your opinion of this. Let me know what you think.

Red Russian

carguy_
07-21-2004, 08:12 PM
It is even worse now.You can miss from 20m.The arcade recoil and porked accuracy make it the most porked weapons in FB.Just to ensure it is not too deadly.

Obviously facts and data just as good as .50 whiners didn`t convince Oleg to bring back 1.22 MK108.

http://carguy.w.interia.pl/tracki/sig23d.jpg

LEXX_Luthor
07-21-2004, 08:13 PM
Red:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>My brain could be fried<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
That's "ok" nobody noticed Wing Snap in a recent Patch until Oleg told them about it a few weeks later. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif


__________________
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/10.gif Flyable Swedish "Gladiator" listed as J8A ...in Aces Expansion Pack

"You will still have FB , you will lose nothing" ~WUAF_Badsight
"I had actually pre ordered CFS3 and I couldnt wait..." ~Bearcat99
"Gladiator and Falco, elegant weapons of a more civilized age" ~ElAurens
:
"Damn.....Where you did read about Spitfire made from a wood?
Close this book forever and don't open anymore!" ~Oleg_Maddox http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

Red_Russian13
07-21-2004, 08:42 PM
Carguy;

I did sort of notice some increased inaccuracy of the 108 when I tried it out (one time), but I chalked it up to me having a bad day, not to mention I'm not a crack shot anyway. So I didn't figure it was anything.

But do you notice an increase in the ROF? It appears slight, but it appears none the less (I think...again, I only think this! For those who would flame me, read my first post!)

LEXX;

That's humorous!

Red Russian

Fennec_P
07-21-2004, 11:07 PM
Obviously facts and data just as good as .50 whiners

Where?

The only reference I have seen for the MK108 is a guncam video, and it appears to match what is in the game.

heywooood
07-21-2004, 11:16 PM
used to seem most people were happy overall..

now - you cant find one satisfied customer around here... wha happened?

there is a difference between what you are used to and what is correct, no?

One problem with making alot of changes is that the perception becomes one of 'it was fine before -now its screwed up' when the reality is that you got used to it, and then it changed. And if the changes reduce effectiveness, the change is seen as 'incorrect' or at least it is easier to challenge it - especially if you dont KNOW what the truth is.. you only know what you were USED to before and now its not as good.

It seems to be more a matter of perception and not necessarily that it is a mistake by the devs. or worse - from our paranoid contingent- a purposeful attempt by the devs. to impose pain and misery on the community.

Every one should stop posting for a few days...take a big break. Study airframe and powerplant manuals on all the warbirds in this massive sim - go ahead - I'll wait here. Then, after you have mastered all the information - study all the weapons and armaments manuals from all the countries represented in this massive sim ... I'll wait here... OK.

Now you can post responsibly... otherwise its just jibberjabber. relax - and fly. Learn the plane you like and fly it.



http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v250/heywooood/ac_32_1.jpg
"Check your guns"

Red_Russian13
07-21-2004, 11:58 PM
Heywooood;

You cannot possibly be responding to me, correct? I just want to make sure because I don't want to jump the gun so to speak. And if so, I do hope you read what I originally posted.

Red Russian

[This message was edited by Red_Russian13 on Wed July 21 2004 at 11:12 PM.]

WTE_Galway
07-22-2004, 12:15 AM
what about the mk103 then .. is it better than the 108?

in one patch it was less effective than the 108 by heaps .. which was just crazy as the 108 was a cheap pressed metal mass produced down powered mk103

Red_Russian13
07-22-2004, 12:26 AM
WTE_Galway;

I haven't observed the Mk 103, and I never messed with it much before the patch so I can't speak to it at all. But I'm not saying that anything is better than any other weapon at any time during any patch. Because I simply do not know. I just thought that the 108's ROF was increased slightly. Whether it's equal to, greater than or less than the 103, I don't know.


In addition...(and this is not directed to your thought Galway, even though I am writing in this post)

But let me make it clear to anyone who would suggest otherwise, I'm only asserting my opinion and observation of the Mk 108 over a 15 minute flight experimenting with the patch. I'm not suggesting that this (increase) is right or wrong, heck, I'm not even suggesting that my observation is right or wrong. I simply noticed something, and opened it for discussion to see if anyone else might have noticed it (which is still free to do, no?). If not, fine, then my observation was wrong and I can live with that. Frankly, I don't care if they increased the ROF in it or not, I only wish for it to be accurate, and for that, I'll take the developer's word for it. I was merely bringing the issue up for an honest open discussion to see what others thought. Hope that clarifies my statements.

Red Russian

LeadSpitter_
07-22-2004, 01:03 AM
seems slower rof to me i was flying them all last night, it seems like less recoil to me on one shot and they are the ultimate 1 hit snipe weapon like they should be and destroy any aircraft in 1 shot except a lagg3 fuselage but a wing hit will ripp it clean off. Il2s still can take about 2-4 hits to the wings. The 190s feels different to me as well maybe slightly more elevator at slower speeds same with the 109s less freeze up of elevator doing 6000-700kmph , the p47 seems alot faster now too in accelration

All the people were enjoying the 108 last night.

car guy are you holding down the cannon button for along time try doing short bursts something 109s nerver had to do before with the 108 or cannon.

I seen you ranting last night .50s are stronger then the 108 cannon. theres absoulety noway. try not having a favortie ride fly all planetypes and enjoy them equally, you really get a bias feel from flying just one aircraft.

http://img14.photobucket.com/albums/v43/leadspitter/LSIG1.gif

John_Stag
07-22-2004, 01:58 AM
Here's a link:

http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/MK%20108%20cannon

And Here's the body of the text for those that don't want to click on the link in case they see something they don't like:

The MK 108 (German: Maschinenkanone - Machine Cannon) was a heavy machine gun (30mm calibre) manufactured in Germany during World War II by Rheinmetall-Borsig for use in aircraft
The weapon was developed as a private venture by the company in 1940 and was submitted to the Reichsluftfahrtministerium (RLM - Reich Aviation Ministry) in response to a 1942 requirement for a heavy aircraft weapon for use against the Allied bombers appearing en masse in German skies. Testing verified that the cannon was well-suited to this role, requiring as little as five hits with high-explosive ammunition to bring down a heavy bomber such as a B-17 Flying Fortress or B-24 Liberator. The MK 108 was quickly ordered into production and was installed in a variety of Luftwaffe, including the Messerschmitt Bf 109, Focke-Wulf Fw 190, Heinkel He 219, Messerschmitt Me 163, and Messerschmitt Me 262
. Apart from the high-explosive (or "mine" round), incendiary rounds were also produced for it.

The cannon proved to be very effective and reliable, its main shortcoming only that its shells arced too much due to its low muzzle velocity, making aiming more difficult. Otherwise, it was simple to manufacture and maintain and its compact size and weight made it ideal for aircraft installation. The cannon's distinctive heavy pounding sound gave it the nickname pneumatic hammer amongst Allied aircrews.

The MK 108 was also fitted to night fighters in an unusual installation, called "Schr├┬Ąge Musik", literally "slanting music" ). In this configuration, the cannons were mounted in the fuselage, aiming upwards at an almost vertical angle. This allowed the night fighter to attack a bomber by making a high-speed pass underneath the enemy aircraft.

Specifications

* Calibre: 30 mm
* Length: 1057 mm (3 ft 6 in)
* Weight: 64 kg (141 lb)
* Rate of fire: 600 rounds/min (later models 850 rounds/min)
* Muzzle velocity: 540 m/s (1,770 ft/s)

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>:Corporal! Where are you taking those vultures?

Corporal: Officers to the mess, NCO's to the Guardroom, Sir!

:Like hell you are, they're responsible for all this, get them to clean it up!

Corporal: But what about the officers, Sir?

:Give 'em a bloody shovel.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Xnomad
07-22-2004, 03:29 AM
Well I scored some amazing long distance high crossing speed 90 degree deflection shots with it yesterday and some other lovely long distance shots, either I was having a really good day or your observations are incorrect.

http://www.xnomad.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/sig.jpg

Zayets
07-22-2004, 03:37 AM
Was in the 110 last night fighting a Hurricane.He came on my six and I took out his engine.Which stopped.Climb,roll,divr,I'm right behind him now and I let 108 loose.Hit his wing,right one,an explosion and I was just about to fly thru debris.Or so I thought.I was almost ram the plane!My 108 took only his aileron.http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Zayets out

http://server5.uploadit.org/files/Zayets-sigIAR.jpg

F19_Ob
07-22-2004, 04:07 AM
Didnt notice any difference in rate of fire.
When I practice in Qmb I mostly use single bops with cannon only and some times two rounds go off on one quick squeeze, like before patch.


I had posted this separately.
-------------------------------------------------
Ok I did the same test as previous patch.
Atleast 40 quickmissions.

As before many planes "can" sometimes be downed with one hit but also can remain flying after 3 hits, although they are badly damaged. So the results are the same as before.

P47 can still sometimes take up to 4-5 hits and fly.

P51d can take up to 3 hits but often gets damaged after one.


As before planes generally sustain hits better directly from behind where the blast will hit the edges of a wing or tail surface.
There is more damage if it hits from an angle and on to the surface.

--------------------------------------------------

Havent tested the axis 20mm cannons yet but on allied planes I seem to get better single hit results with p38 cannon on a 109 ,than i do with the 2 cannons on the spitfire.
I flew 10 QM each and the single cannon of the p38 caused the 109 to burn more often than with the spits 2 cannons.
10 missions is brobably to few to be accurate, so it may be different if i do 20 missions more.

It surely would be interesting to see what u guys find about the p38 cannon compared to the spit.

Rab03
07-22-2004, 05:59 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by carguy_:
It is even worse now.You can miss from 20m.The arcade recoil and porked accuracy make it the most porked weapons in FB.Just to ensure it is not too deadly.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

My personal experiences differ greatly from those you stated. I had no problem shooting down ponies with Mk108 from several hundred meters far and high (I was low) with big deflection (up to 70 degrees)!
From my perspective Mk108 is very deadly, but I prefer 20mm on my G-6 because of it's higher rate of fire and larger ammo supply.

Red_Russian13
07-22-2004, 11:34 AM
Hmmm...interesting observations everyone. I suppose time will tell after we all use it a bit.

I've never thought it an overly accurate weapon, but this is coming from someone who isn't an overly accurate shooter! But I do love the ole 108, if nothing than for the sound and seeing huge yellow tracers!

Thanks again for your comments.

Red Russian