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View Full Version : which is better betty vs b25 vs he111 vs ju88 vs pe2



harryrriedl
02-19-2005, 05:36 AM
i thought this might be intersting to see what the forum thought wich would be best medium bomber between the betty ju88 pe2 he111 and b25 and betty.
p.s which one most manovable

Ruy Horta
02-19-2005, 05:53 AM
The Ju 88 and Pe 2 were both active in fighter variants, that should explain more than enough. The Ju 88 actually surpassed the Bf 110 as the most effective nightfighter of the Luftwaffe.

The G4M may have some advantages in terms of agility (assumption based on lightness of construction) and range, but it has earned its nickname as a No.1 lighter.

Range won't play in the "short range" world of this game series, nor can it bank on being "unknown". The Betty simply lacks the ability to absorb combat damage and fighters will have to escort it and do an effective job, else it will simply be another big target.

The He 111 will only be marginally better than the Betty judged by these terms, although having more staying power, it still needs effective cover of fighters.

The B-25 offers perhaps the best mix of being an effective level bomber wich can defend itself and absorb a great amount of damage.

I think that the Mitchell wins in terms of the classic going in unescorted AGAINST enemy fighter opposition.

The Ju 88 and Pe2 rely on their relative speed, not the ability to defend themselves, so although I rate them both higher in general ability as aircraft, the Mitchell wins as a medium bomber, especially when judged in gaming terms.

So Mitchell as medium bomber, but the Ju 88 and Pe2 as multi-role aircraft. But we are forgetting another nice multi-role aircraft: the A-20.

fherathras
02-19-2005, 06:24 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ruy Horta:
But we are forgetting another nice multi-role aircraft: the A-20. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>



And it kicks ****! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

Akronnick
02-19-2005, 06:37 AM
And Don't forget the (Crosses fingers) Mosquito! That baby is gonna be one Bad Mutha Fokker!

Aztek_Eagle
02-19-2005, 07:34 AM
betty is the best as long as doesnt get hit

p1ngu666
02-19-2005, 08:12 AM
well b25 has best turrets i think, but pansy bombload of only 3000lbs (1.5 tons)

he111 can take 4 tons? so can ju88, pe2 can take more, as can mossie http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

aggy said pe2 wont have bombsite, many wherent fitted with them, and he couldnt find references http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

we only getting fb mossie, and IV mossie will be AI only http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

think its ju88, vs b25, ju88 is a more capable bomber, but b25 has the better defensive armament

JunkoIfurita
02-19-2005, 07:28 PM
Mossie will be fantastic for its speed, but let's not forget that it was (practically) made out of paper-mache.

Maybe it was just because air-warfare was new to us Aussies, but not very many RAAF mossies made it home after their missions. In fact most of the stories of daring among Aussie Mossie pilots are of those who actually managed to ditch safely and escape - the most famous being one pilot who arranged transfer of his ditched aircraft on a raft from one of the solomon islands. Australia had so few aircraft that he considered it worth the target he presented in getting it home. Unfortunately, his raft was sunk, and now you can go scuba-dive in the wreck (literally just a skeleton with a cockpit).

It's a fascinating dive...it's been so overun by coral that it looks like the mossie has been rebuilt from of coral polyps.

Anyway I'm blabbering http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

Cheers,
Junko 'Kimura' Ifurita

----

heywooood
02-19-2005, 07:39 PM
Ju88 was the best twin from an engineering standpoint...it could do almost everything from night intercept, to minelaying, to dive bombing, torpedo bombing, and level bombing...and all with better performance than the others.

Mossie was fastest and prettiest though...

I hope we will get the Pe-2...I have read a little about them but to compare, even in a sim, would be awesome.

3.JG51_BigBear
02-19-2005, 07:51 PM
I'd say B-25. Great defenisve armament for something that size with very useful fields of fire. Reasonably manueverable, heavy bomb load, and its built like a friggin tank.

The Betty is made out of toilet paper, the he111 has really ackward defesnive positions, and then the Ju88 and pe2 are kind of in a different class than the other three.

HellToupee
02-19-2005, 08:15 PM
b25 pretty sturdy with good defensive arment but small bomb load, betty weak but the 20mm rear defensive gun is just plain nasty. Ju88 he111 big bombs strong but no so great defense wise, mossie good looking fast hard to spot on radar winna.

p1ngu666
02-19-2005, 08:45 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JunkoIfurita:
Mossie will be fantastic for its speed, but let's not forget that it was (practically) made out of paper-mache.

Maybe it was just because air-warfare was new to us Aussies, but not very many RAAF mossies made it home after their missions. In fact most of the stories of daring among Aussie Mossie pilots are of those who actually managed to ditch safely and escape - the most famous being one pilot who arranged transfer of his ditched aircraft on a raft from one of the solomon islands. Australia had so few aircraft that he considered it worth the target he presented in getting it home. Unfortunately, his raft was sunk, and now you can go scuba-dive in the wreck (literally just a skeleton with a cockpit).

It's a fascinating dive...it's been so overun by coral that it looks like the mossie has been rebuilt from of coral polyps.

Anyway I'm blabbering http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

Cheers,
Junko 'Kimura' Ifurita

---- <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

mossie was tough, be sure http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

mossie did all the things ju88 did, and more http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

ju88 best multirole of a typical design, the mossie used a odd, if logical appoarch http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

HotelBushranger
02-19-2005, 08:55 PM
The thing I hate the most about the B-25 is the waist guns, they can hit bugger all.

He111 is definitely the prettiest, but all over I would have to say the best was....the Blenheim http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Giganoni
02-19-2005, 10:40 PM
I think it is tough to decide what is a better medium bomber (although betty has been classified as a heavy) because it all depends on the role it is to play and the situations of the mission. If range is to be a factor and under strong fighter protection, then obviously Betty would be best. Reverse the situation and its the worst. So to me it all depends on many factors. You could look at the historical success of the bombers, but again that too is very dependent on factors outside the bomber's design.

harryrriedl
02-20-2005, 10:05 AM
so that mees that the bomber are depended on outside surcamstances.

by the way i dident inclued the mossie because it was in a diffrent class unlike theies 5.

one last thing how many a20 were made. im tired and cant think http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Zyzbot
02-20-2005, 02:43 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by harryrriedl:
so that mees that the bomber are depended on outside surcamstances.

by the way i dident inclued the mossie because it was in a diffrent class unlike theies 5.

one last thing how many a20 were made. im tired and cant think http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Quite a few were made:

Production ended in late 1944 after a total of 7,385 A-20 models were made. 3,000 or so were sent to the Soviets, 455 were sent to the RAF, 28 to the Netherlands and 31 to Brazil.

The type also had the following designations: P-70 (nightfighter), F-3 (Recon), and BD (USN bomber).

Gunner_361st
02-20-2005, 03:34 PM
This thread's question is pretty generic. What would you classify as "better" ? Largest bombload, most range, most durability, most defensive firepower, most versatility?

Well, my opinions are...

Firepower and durability - The B-25 hands down. The most firepower and handy powered turret systems.

Bombload - Heinkel-111. Apparently this H6 could carry 2x 2000 KG bombs. Obviously that wouldn't be a standard loadout, as they had to be carried externally, but quite a feat. Thats 8,800 pounds.

Range - The Betty, hands down. The Betty was one of if not THEE longest range land-based bomber in the world. However, in the world of FB, range really doesn't mean much, since noone wants to fly for 5 hours before seeing some action.

Versatility - From what I've read, the JU-88 and Mosquito were two of the most versatile aircraft of this general category of two-engine medium bombers in the world. The Mosquito has been called by some veterans I've seen interviews of the most versatile military airplane ever built. Granted, its an awkward design, as it is built for speed and doesn't have defensive armament.

All-around package for traditional level bombing with a bombsight - The B-25 I have to say. Great firepower, great durability, decent speed for the type it is, easy to fly, and while its bombload is not the best, it carries one large enough to cause serious havoc to the enemy. There is also the factor of the Norden bombsight, it being one of the most advanced and accurate bombsights in the world at that time, so much so that bombadiers were responsible for its safety and told to destroy it should they crash-land in enemy territory.

But anyway, just my opinions. Nice thread, I wish the forums had more like this; people politely expressing opinions and talking about factual data, rather than whining for something to be changed. ~S~

Gunner

Kurfurst__
02-21-2005, 05:26 AM
For in game purposes, I think its probably the Ju 88 that will be liked the most. The HE 111 has the greatest loads, and it can absorb damage, but we only have an earlier variant whichs defensive armament is lacking.. not much of a role left for it with its conventional level bomber method.

The B-25 is similiar. At least the guns are great, and it rugged - but imho for a determined fighter w. heavier armament can shoot it down rather easily, like the he 111, and not very manouverable. Bombload is enough, but too convinient for online.. like the 111, its rather questionable if it worths to take the plane for a 30min mission just to kill three trucks with a volley of bombs. Any fighter can do the same.

The bettys range has no use in the game, defensive guns suck, and its a torch. Suicidal for online imho. Fanatics only.

The Mossie FBVI will be like the Bf 110 imho. Its just too vulnerable. No defensive guns. F.B. versions have little bombload (well, it was LIGHT bomber), though the forward armament is devastating. A good strafer, even better bomber killer, fairly well suited for online, but all the fighters can catch it. And if they catch it, it will be easy to shoot it down - not even defensive armament to worry about, and it cant seriously outmanouver a fighter. A Mossie pilot will have to plan the approach carefully, get in fast, hit hard, get out to minimize the chances of a successfull interception. He has good speed, only slightly below the fighters. If he does it well, he wont be even noticed.

Then comes the Ju 88.. I have flown it as AI, its a GREAT online aircraft! Good guns, good field of fire. Tough skin. Rather fast. Great variaty of heavy loads.. and above all... ITS FREAKING AGILE! Almost feels like a fighter.. Even La-7s had problems with it online. It can evade a lot of hits by wild manouvering, while it can shoot back, so the attack on it is quite tricky. I guess US .50cals will work better on it than cannons, killing the closely grouped crew rather than wrecking the plane itself. It probably has the best balance of all of them.

Spitf_ACE
02-21-2005, 08:03 AM
Are we talking about Real Life, or within the confines of this game?

Another way of looking at it is to ask; Which plane did the enemy fear the most?

Was it the one that could cause most damage on the ground? Or, the one that was most difficult to stop?

Hendley
02-21-2005, 08:25 AM
Speaking of _ingame_, I think Kurfurst will proven right vis a vis the Mossie. Without a rear gun (and presumambly, no rear view?) it is going to be a difficult ride on the dogfight servers. It'll be a bit like the Beau, albeit faster... Not much to do except go low and fast and hope no-one spots you http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

One issue with the B-25 I've noticed recently (again, speaking dogfight servers) is that it has to fly against the Luftwaffe fighters and their cannon--one hit in the wing and boom! It may be tougher than the 111 but it doesn't feel like it. In the latter you have a lot more time to pepper P51 and Spitfire inline engines with bullets...

With the Betty mostly only facing 50cal-armed USN fighters, she might not be too bad a ride either, though who knows...

Tooz_69GIAP
02-21-2005, 08:52 AM
The in game site on the B-25 is not a Norden, but is the He-111 Lofte site. They just transplanted it over.

I wonder if the Betty will have the same.

WOLFMondo
02-21-2005, 08:53 AM
A20 for me! Not as well armed as the B25 but its like a slow P47 with 2 defensive gunners and can turn well. I'd prefer a Wellington to all of them thoughhttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Kurfurst__:

The Mossie FBVI will be like the Bf 110 imho. Its just too vulnerable. No defensive guns. F.B. versions have little bombload (well, it was LIGHT bomber), though the forward armament is devastating. A good strafer, even better bomber killer, fairly well suited for online, but all the fighters can catch it. And if they catch it, it will be easy to shoot it down <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I would have thought the mossie would have far better performance than the BF110 at all heights , probably only loosing out in sustained turning.

Maybe in 1944+ server like WC where all the very late war LW planes are available but in 1942/43 maps I'd expect it to do ok as it has a pretty high top speed and ceiling and two or three of them together could probably work over any fighter it came up against.

Yimmy
02-21-2005, 09:10 AM
In game wise, I think the He111 gets the prize.

As far as I know, it is the only one capable of sinking a carrier in a lone sortie (2 x 2000kg bombs on the deck).

p1ngu666
02-21-2005, 09:20 AM
mossie should be really fast, and it should out manover a 190, 109 briefly like il2 did back in the day?

109 climb, dive and turn better, mossie has better speed

u should never fly a mossie below 300mph which is 500kph
360mph on the deck should be within reach...

onwhine, probably take 8 rockets and 2 500lb bombs. the machine guns have 1000rounds each. cannons 240, or 283 rounds each.

but onwhine, it will probably face the massed ranks of mw50 109's and dora's.

bomber version of mossie took a 4000lb cookie bomb, and drop tanks, i see no reason why it couldnt take bombs on the wings aswell, for shorter range missions if needed.

the idea of the mossie, is that is extremely hard too intercept, rather than the more classic view of bomber devlopment, with defensive armaments. last few times ive flown ju88 its only done 300kph ias http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif
mossie could do 410kph ish on 1 engine http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif and climb on 1 engine too

i dont think itll do aswell onwhine as the real thing did, but should do pretty well

imo the best jabo plane is 262 2a, cos its SO fast, ok "only" 500kg of bombs, but ull get to target...

hitler wanted them for when the allies invaded, thought that was the only plane capable of pinning down the allies while his panzers race to the beaches, because the allies would have vast numbers of planes...

p1ngu666
02-21-2005, 09:27 AM
btw im really lookin forward to ju88 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

110, and ju88 are outclassed by mossie really...

mossies gutted the night fighter units in germany....

mossie was all things to all men. any task, anywhere, anytime. (even did night time photo recon http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif)

harryrriedl
02-21-2005, 12:34 PM
how about adding the this medidum bomber to the list ki2x sally better defences and slightly better kamikies it would a be a good bomber to add. i love early britsh bomber like blenimem i wish it would be added for sentermental resons but it would unliky have a pit in FB but i hope it will be added in BOB

p1ngu666
02-21-2005, 01:00 PM
it was in fb, for the finnish i think
i got a vid on it, cool plane http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
in its day, it was more impressive than the mossie, 60mph over fighters then in service with raf...

eddiemac0
02-21-2005, 10:26 PM
The best medium bomber we have in game is the F4U-1D... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

CKY_86
02-22-2005, 05:54 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by p1ngu666:
btw im really lookin forward to ju88 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

110, and ju88 are outclassed by mossie really...

mossies gutted the night fighter units in germany....

mossie was all things to all men. any task, anywhere, anytime. (even did night time photo recon http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif) <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

as soon as the mossies started gathering the LW nightfighter pilots were told to land http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

p1ngu666
02-22-2005, 08:21 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by eddiemac0:
The best medium bomber we have in game is the F4U-1D... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

yep id agree with that http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

eddiemac0
02-22-2005, 06:56 PM
p1ngu666
Thankfully we can't get off the deck with that kind of firepower (at least I haven't seen/done it), otherwise I'd have a lot more Japanese carriers on my fuselage..

Gibbage1
02-22-2005, 08:02 PM
My vote is P-38. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

p1ngu666
02-22-2005, 09:47 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gibbage1:
My vote is P-38. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

hehe http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif