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|CoB|_Spectre
08-07-2005, 07:12 AM
It seems to me that wheelbrakes may be less effective since the recent patch. Brake operation in normal ground handling on land does not present the same issues as deck handling on a carrier, so I cannot say that this problem is universal. Still, I have noticed several times, after a making a successful "trap" on a carrier, while attempting to maneuver outside the foul line to make room for other landing aircraft, I have stood on the brakes at low maneuvering speeds and been unable to slow sufficiently to engage chocks before the airplane edges over the side. Due to the relative headwind down the deck of the moving carrier, it is necessary to maintain a careful application of power while braking to counteract the plane's tendency to weather-vane and prior to the patch I had no trouble with deck handling. Has anyone else noticed this?

|CoB|_Spectre
08-07-2005, 07:12 AM
It seems to me that wheelbrakes may be less effective since the recent patch. Brake operation in normal ground handling on land does not present the same issues as deck handling on a carrier, so I cannot say that this problem is universal. Still, I have noticed several times, after a making a successful "trap" on a carrier, while attempting to maneuver outside the foul line to make room for other landing aircraft, I have stood on the brakes at low maneuvering speeds and been unable to slow sufficiently to engage chocks before the airplane edges over the side. Due to the relative headwind down the deck of the moving carrier, it is necessary to maintain a careful application of power while braking to counteract the plane's tendency to weather-vane and prior to the patch I had no trouble with deck handling. Has anyone else noticed this?

Willey
08-07-2005, 08:14 AM
Yeah, I watched this in FW cockpit. Brakes come really slowly when pushing the button http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

Maybe they were to hard before...

I'd prefer backstick braking, with differential braking on the roll axis. Disadvantage: Can't have full back evelator at 50% brakes at the same time http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif
But that could be coupled with a pumping system. Hold stick back and just tap the brake knob seveeral times. Worked quite well in WarBirds, it just had no differential brakes.

Still, the main problem is that it takes some 5-10 seconds for 100% brake power to come, but as soon as you leave the button, it's immediately at 0%. So it's really impossible to "pump" effectively which was the main way to stop a plane that would flip over from too much braking. Now that takes ages longer and with the new FM I couldn't find a plane that does not flip over...

zaelu
08-07-2005, 10:02 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Willey:
..Now that takes ages longer and with the new FM I couldn't find a plane that does not flip over... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

try HE111 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

The "FM" changed a lot on ground too... we expect a lot of tweaking in future patches. Didn't you notice that now when you reach a crest you won't flip over again? example: go to pacific islands map, take off from southern island heading north... don't raise aircraft from the ground just head it towards sea... watch the crest coming... and passing.
Also now your ride on ground is more bumpy... watch the plane humping from one whell to another very believeble.
Offcourse there are some minuses too... the A/C tends to swing too much sometimes because of a pendulum effect maybe not full tweaked.

neural_dream
08-07-2005, 02:05 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Willey:
... with the new FM I couldn't find a plane that does not flip over... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Seriously? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

|CoB|_Spectre
08-07-2005, 04:49 PM
Some models with conventional landing gear (taildraggers) have always been more susceptible to nose-over than others. The Stuka demands judicious brake application in following with historical accuracy. The 109s reportedly were very tolerant of heavy braking once the tailwheel was firmly on the ground, but Eric Brown said brakes were never the strong suite of German aircraft he'd flown. I began wondering about fixed base ground handling after my intial post and found the Fw-190 difficult to stop quickly even at low taxi speeds. Previously I would land, taxi to a spot in front of a hangar or camouflage netting and swing the aircraft around as one would to allow ground crew easy push backwards into the shelter. It is far more difficult now than prior to the patch. Again, this can be lethal on a carrier deck, especially on an escort carrier.

VT-51_Razor
08-07-2005, 09:43 PM
Yes Spectre, I've noticed all the same things you have mentioned since 4.01. Additionally, I have noticed a marked difference in braking and ground handling between the carrier and dry land with the same plane. I don't know, maybe it's just my immagination? It seems that the brakes are more effective aboard ship than they are on an airfield.

BSS_Vidar
08-08-2005, 12:06 AM
Yes, there has been a dramatic decline in braking effectiveness since 4.01 was released. The Blacksheep are very diciplined on carrier decks, and handle themselves well even when the deck is packed. As of late, we've been having our problems successfuly manuevering about the flight deck. At times we don't even bother to back-taxi anymore for another CQ cycle - We just respawn.

1. The brakes don't engage properly. Too slow.
2. Unable to pivot about one main-mount unless comming to a 'complete' full stop first. (Hard to do if your plane doesn't stop right off in the first place).
3. Differential braking input too sluggish while moving forward. i.e., plane continues to travel straight forward even after full deflection of rudder in either direction while engaging brake input. Again, not effective unless the plane is motionless.


Braking effectiveness is unacceptable for carrier operations. Granted, we do most of our gaming in the air. But this has got to be fixed just the same. Presicion taxiing around the flight deck is escential. You need your brakes to respond immediately. Oleg has let me know in no uncertain terms that we will never get differential axis for independent braking, so don't bother asking for them. Therefore, they do need to fix this BUG to compensate for the lack of a proper braking system in which the majority of the non-Russian aircraft in this game had.

FritzGryphon
08-08-2005, 01:32 AM
But, 4.01 did add the ability to do handbrake turns. That counts for something http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Track:

http://members.shaw.ca/evilgryphon3/handbrake.zip

AerialTarget
08-08-2005, 02:42 AM
Vidar is correct. However, I'm intrigued that no one has yet pointed out that while keeping rudder neutral and engaging both brakes equally, the brakes are actually more effective than before the patch.

VT-51_Razor
08-08-2005, 10:22 AM
This is true AT, although I would have said that it changed earlier than 4.01. I seem to recall them becomming more effective sometime shortly after PF came out. I noticed that you can actually hold yourself in place with full aft stick, and apply almost full throttle on some birds without moving. In fact, with proper coordination between stick and throttle, you can actually pick your tail up and hold it. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

BSS_Vidar
08-08-2005, 11:34 AM
I've actually found that even if you neutralized the rudder input while braking, the plane continues to creep forward with full braking applied. You need to try it on a flight deck to see what I mean. The space is more restricted, and you see the urgency to stop more clearly that way, instead of being on a airfield where you have plenty of room.

You can no longer engage a pivot wheel while in forward motion. This is essential for presicion taxi ops on a flight deck.

VT-51_Razor
08-08-2005, 10:57 PM
Sad, but true Vidar http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif