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Call_me_Kanno
04-08-2005, 06:53 PM
I've had this in my garage for about 32 yrs and decided to see if anyone knows what kind it might be. It appears to have been fired and a dud. It has a ring in the nose that looks to have been set on some numbers and locked.

And yes, it has been disarmed. No explosive is in it.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v22/Kanno/Oldartyshell004.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v22/Kanno/Oldartyshell001.jpg

stelr
04-08-2005, 07:05 PM
Spent 30 years in the Army as an Artilleryman and I've never seen one quite like it. I doesn't appear to be of US origin judging by the fuse and the rotating bands at the bottom. I've never seen a fuse quite like that one. The ring you describe is probably the time setting on the fuse.

It looks too blunt to be from a howitzer. My guess would be a gun or direct fire weapon of some kind. But...I'm only guessing.

Sorry I could't help more.

FI_Willie
04-08-2005, 07:26 PM
Looks WWI'ish to me. EARLY WWII maybe.

Check it close for markings and get a diameter size on it, in MM preferably. I'm guessing it's around 75mm. IF you find the markings, get a pic of them if you can. Fill in the marks with chalk if it will help 'em show. I'll check some of my old EOD stuff and see what we can come up with.


Looks like it was just about out of juice when it landed or it hit in really soft dirt.

Got a bud that is currently EOD and I'll point him at the pic too.

Neat doorstop!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Tully__
04-08-2005, 07:35 PM
Looks to be about 3" (76mm)

My housemate (16 years experience with Australian military) says definitely artillery, possibly AAA. Markings would help if there are any.

3.JG51_BigBear
04-08-2005, 07:45 PM
The fuse looks like a German dopelzunder 96 (I think that's how its spelled). The fuse would have gone on a 7.7cm shell.

Cess-SGTRoc
04-09-2005, 03:40 AM
Looks like a AA Round, German like the other guy said.
The rings are for time and Proxsimity (Spelling?)
Some of the german rounds had a fuse that set off the AA round when it was close to a large aircraft. That way it did not go on by if the range was to high on the shot.
The slots on the ring for the spanner wrench was to set the time and also for it to pick up the Aircraft when it was close and there was a vent so the barometer could read the ALT. The other rings where for the arming and alt. you wanted the round to go off at.If I remember right there was 3 fuses on the thing. They would set the ALT/Arming So if the round misfired it would not go off close and kill or injury the gunners. And I was told by OD that this was not uncommon when they had been firing rounds most of the day or night.
Almost sure on this as we found one in the water that looked almost like it. Had to have OD come and defuse it though it was almost 35 years old when we dug it out of the water and sand. Still live lol.

Waldo.Pepper
04-09-2005, 04:23 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
Some of the german rounds had a fuse that set off the AA round when it was close to a large aircraft. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

What round is that, which you have described? Please provide more info/details if you can please.

I think thats a VT or proximity fuze and that was a late war ALLIED development. Certainly the Luftwaffe had fuzed rounds, but they did not sense proximity to an aircraft and detonate at the right moment.

fherathras
04-09-2005, 04:58 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Waldo.Pepper:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
Some of the german rounds had a fuse that set off the AA round when it was close to a large aircraft. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

What round is that, which you have described? Please provide more info/details if you can please.

I think thats a VT or proximity fuze and that was a late war ALLIED development. Certainly the Luftwaffe had fuzed rounds, but they did not sense proximity to an aircraft and detonate at the right moment. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>



well, the gremans did have proximity fuzes for torpedoes, that worked!


so, it wouldnt suprise me if this was the case in aaa artillery either, seems difficult to do thogh.
and that shell is, i think abit old "WWI/early WWII", to have sucth tecnology

SnapdLikeAMutha
04-09-2005, 05:29 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Waldo.Pepper:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
Some of the german rounds had a fuse that set off the AA round when it was close to a large aircraft. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

What round is that, which you have described? Please provide more info/details if you can please.

I think thats a VT or proximity fuze and that was a late war ALLIED development. Certainly the Luftwaffe had fuzed rounds, but they did not sense proximity to an aircraft and detonate at the right moment. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yep the proximity fuse used a small radio tranciever and was originally developed by US labs, although was also manufactured under license.

*edit* I found this which explains things better than I can this early.... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

http://www.history.navy.mil/faqs/faq96-1.htm

"Captured documents indicate that German work on proximity fuze development had begun in the early 1930's, and was still in process when hostilities ended in the European Theatre."

FI_Willie
04-09-2005, 08:24 AM
I found this;
http://www.xs4all.nl/~verdun/Nederlands/Reisver****en/Figuren/Groep/6.jpg
"* Thanks to our military munition expert Jens from Germany we know that these are not shells, these are German 77 mm Wurfminen (mortar-mines) fired from the Leichte Minenwerfer. The big brass fuse is some kind of double-fuse for impact and time (burning) ignition.*"

More pics of some different arty rounds on this page:
http://www.xs4all.nl/~verdun/Engels/Travelreports/travelreports.htm

Looks similar and the size is about right.

Question, does that old round have holes in the base of it? If it doesn't, it isn't the round described.

Call_me_Kanno
04-09-2005, 09:48 AM
Here are the markings on the fuse: Model 1907 M LOT436518 BH

And here is what is on the casing: ACC LOT3332GAT03 18

On the very bottom is a square mark near the edge.

ploughman
04-09-2005, 11:51 AM
I think it's a US 75mm artillery shell. The fuze is American and there's one on e-bay here. (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=584&item=6524171115&rd=1&ssPageName=WD2V)

FI_Willie
04-09-2005, 02:06 PM
Yep, Sure looks like the thing is identified.

I'll did some more scratchin around and found this;
http://users.belgacom.net/artillery/artillerie/3373.html#230138

with this very descriptive pic.. LOL
http://users.swing.be/sw208720/char1/230139.jpg
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Howitzer of French origin, made in the USA, delivered to the British in the frame of Lend & Lease and served here by Polish soldiers training in Scotland in 1941. Except for the tired wheels, the weapons was little different from the WWI 75mm Model 1897 <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

ploughman
04-09-2005, 04:26 PM
Well there is an irony, I used to live in St Andrews, Scotland. That was the home of the Free Polish forces in Britain during World War Two. I used to walk through the garden of remeberance and before the bust of General Sikorsky on my way to lectures. It's a small world.

Waldo.Pepper
04-09-2005, 06:09 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by fherathras:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Waldo.Pepper:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
Some of the german rounds had a fuse that set off the AA round when it was close to a large aircraft. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

What round is that, which you have described? Please provide more info/details if you can please.

I think thats a VT or proximity fuze and that was a late war ALLIED development. Certainly the Luftwaffe had fuzed rounds, but they did not sense proximity to an aircraft and detonate at the right moment. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>



well, the gremans did have proximity fuzes for torpedoes, that worked!


so, it wouldnt suprise me if this was the case in aaa artillery either, seems difficult to do thogh.
and that shell is, i think abit old "WWI/early WWII", to have sucth tecnology <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Torpedos are not my strong suit, but I don't think that they were proximity detonated. There were contact fuzed that will blow up when they go bump up against the ship. There are magnetically detonated warheads on some torpedoes that go off when a relay within the warhead is magnetically disturbed from the nearby passage of a large metal object (maybe this is what you mean) And then there were acoustic torpedos, which homed in on the sound of the target ships engines (screws really) then detonated on contact (or magnetically).

This type of technology is far removed from installing something like that into the small space of an artillery shell. (To say nothing of surviving the stress of the round being fired). Late in the war the Americans deplued the VT fuze artillery round and AAA round. (Dramatically inproving lethality). Other nations shells would detonate after a certain time had elapsed (based upon the length of a fuze carried internaly within the shell). German shells are in no way capable of proximity detection. Often the practice was for Luftwaffe planes to shadow bomber formations to then relay the altitude to their flak comrades on the ground. The shells were set to detonate after a certain time period (hopfully this would coincide with the measured altitude of the target bombers). That's it.

Cess-SGTRoc
04-09-2005, 11:07 PM
Waldo.Pepper I sent you a private message. Check that and I will get you the info that I had ok.
I will call OD at troop in the morning and see what they have.

SnapdLikeAMutha
04-10-2005, 05:46 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Waldo.Pepper:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by fherathras:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Waldo.Pepper:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
Some of the german rounds had a fuse that set off the AA round when it was close to a large aircraft. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

What round is that, which you have described? Please provide more info/details if you can please.

I think thats a VT or proximity fuze and that was a late war ALLIED development. Certainly the Luftwaffe had fuzed rounds, but they did not sense proximity to an aircraft and detonate at the right moment. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>



well, the gremans did have proximity fuzes for torpedoes, that worked!


so, it wouldnt suprise me if this was the case in aaa artillery either, seems difficult to do thogh.
and that shell is, i think abit old "WWI/early WWII", to have sucth tecnology <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Torpedos are not my strong suit, but I don't think that they were proximity detonated. There were contact fuzed that will blow up when they go bump up against the ship. There are magnetically detonated warheads on some torpedoes that go off when a relay within the warhead is magnetically disturbed from the nearby passage of a large metal object (maybe this is what you mean) And then there were acoustic torpedos, which homed in on the sound of the target ships engines (screws really) then detonated on contact (or magnetically).

This type of technology is far removed from installing something like that into the small space of an artillery shell. (To say nothing of surviving the stress of the round being fired). Late in the war the Americans deplued the VT fuze artillery round and AAA round. (Dramatically inproving lethality). Other nations shells would detonate after a certain time had elapsed (based upon the length of a fuze carried internaly within the shell). German shells are in no way capable of proximity detection. Often the practice was for Luftwaffe planes to shadow bomber formations to then relay the altitude to their flak comrades on the ground. The shells were set to detonate after a certain time period (hopfully this would coincide with the measured altitude of the target bombers). That's it. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yep, the German magnetic detonators were AWFUL though, this was comprehensively demonstrated in the Narvik campaign, I think out of about 50 torpedos fired only one succesfully detonated, this sank HMS Thistle. This was of course largely due to their proximity to their relative proximity to the North Pole, they were also affected by subterranean deposits of iron ore.

The contact torpedos were also all but useless, they often failed to detonate properly ifthe target was struck at an oblique angle. They also often ran far too deep; during the first battle of Narvik HMS Hardy's crew watched German fish pass right below them before going on to explodea against the shoreline

Big juicy targets spared due to faulty torpedos in the early stages of the war included HMS Ark Royal, Nelson and Warspite (twice!).

The Germans only really solved the detonation problems after capturing HMS Seal in May 1940. The depth problems weren't solved until 1942

FI-Aflak
04-10-2005, 02:16 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Waldo.Pepper:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by fherathras:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Waldo.Pepper:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
Some of the german rounds had a fuse that set off the AA round when it was close to a large aircraft. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

What round is that, which you have described? Please provide more info/details if you can please.

I think thats a VT or proximity fuze and that was a late war ALLIED development. Certainly the Luftwaffe had fuzed rounds, but they did not sense proximity to an aircraft and detonate at the right moment. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>



well, the gremans did have proximity fuzes for torpedoes, that worked!


so, it wouldnt suprise me if this was the case in aaa artillery either, seems difficult to do thogh.
and that shell is, i think abit old "WWI/early WWII", to have sucth tecnology <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Torpedos are not my strong suit, but I don't think that they were proximity detonated. There were contact fuzed that will blow up when they go bump up against the ship. There are magnetically detonated warheads on some torpedoes that go off when a relay within the warhead is magnetically disturbed from the nearby passage of a large metal object (maybe this is what you mean) And then there were acoustic torpedos, which homed in on the sound of the target ships engines (screws really) then detonated on contact (or magnetically).

This type of technology is far removed from installing something like that into the small space of an artillery shell. (To say nothing of surviving the stress of the round being fired). Late in the war the Americans deplued the VT fuze artillery round and AAA round. (Dramatically inproving lethality). Other nations shells would detonate after a certain time had elapsed (based upon the length of a fuze carried internaly within the shell). German shells are in no way capable of proximity detection. Often the practice was for Luftwaffe planes to shadow bomber formations to then relay the altitude to their flak comrades on the ground. The shells were set to detonate after a certain time period (hopfully this would coincide with the measured altitude of the target bombers). That's it. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

no, they could sense the magnetic feild of a ship and explode.

They do more damage detonating just under the keel than hitting the side.

They also probably had backup collision fuses, though.

Call_me_Kanno
04-11-2005, 02:51 PM
Thanks folk's. Looks like it's a 75mm round for sure. It was one of them things that I kept for all those years and every time I looked at I wondered what it was. I knew the members here would know. Thanks for all the great info on all the ordinance discussed here. Now can you imagine the kick this thing had being fired out of a B-25's nose. No wonder the planes crew's said it felt like the plane would stop in mid air when it went off.