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Wildnoob
06-11-2009, 12:48 PM
I found this link that is a testimonial from a RN Fairly Swordfish torpedo bomber aicraft called
Charles Lamb, maybe this content everybody already know, but somewat I would post it here.

Charles Lamb was a Swordfish pilot who took part in a number of actions including the bombing of the Italian fleet in Taranto, action from Greece and other activities in the Med.

have taken a number of extracts from his book to describe what it was like flying the old Swordfish. As a link to one of the ships on the site, in January 1941 Lamb had to ditch, and was rescued by HMS Juno.
Flying instruments on the early Swordfish were basic. "The blind-flying panel and artificial horizon had not appeared on the scene, and all we had to guide us was a Reid and Sigrist Turn-and-bank indicator, and some red mercury in a small thermometer tube, to tell the pilot whether he was flying nose-up or nose-down." New panels were fitted later before they went to the Mediterranean.
Landing on deck was not easy. "The Swordfish has a Bristol Pegasus 111 M.3 radial engine which obscures the flight-deck - and the ship - in the very last stages of a deck landing. Normally, by approaching in a gentle turn to port, right down to the deck, it is possible to keep the deck in sight until straightening up; then it is necessary to look between the engine cylinders, at 'eleven and twelve o'clock', when the yellow bats come into view for a split second as the deck swoops upwards at an alarming rate. This is fine by day, but at night the cylinders are always red-hot, and glow very brightly, and they can obscure the batsman's illuminated signals altogether."
Diving with torpedo. " Of all its many weapons the most devastating was the aerial torpedo. This weighed 1610 lb. and was capable of sinking a 10,000 ton ship within minutes of the moment of impact. To deliver this weapon in the face of intense opposition in daylight, pilots were taught to attack from a steep dive, at speeds of 180 knots and more. They have been known to reach 200 knots in that dive - in extremis - but there was then a real danger of the wings folding back, or tearing off. In that headlong rush to sea level, the pilot had the impression that he was standing on the rudder bar, looking over the top of the centre-section of the upper mainplane. His face was only partially screened, so that a helmet and goggles were a 'must' for all normal individuals. Those dives had to be very nearly vertical. Any modern clean-surfaced aircraft needs many thousands of feet to pull out of a dive, but the Swordfish could be eased out, with a pull-out of less than five hundred feet. After straightening out and throttling back, the forward speed came right down to 90 knots very quickly, because of the drag provided by the fixed undercarriage, and all the struts and wires between the mainplanes. This violent alteration in speed made the aircraft a difficult target for the gun-aimer on the ground, or in the ship being attacked, and the sudden deceleration helped the pilot to deliver his weapon very accurately. Nevertheless there was never any doubt that the Stringbag was a very slow machine, and a vulnerable target for all, especially in daylight."
A simple aircraft. "There were no refinements to bother with, such as flaps or a variable pitch airscrew, and the undercarriage could not be retracted; but the aircraft had one very special asset which, like everything else in the machine, was simple and most effective; its torpedo sight was foolproof if used with care. Whoever designed it was as much a genius as Marcel Lobelle (the aircraft designer). Two rods, one on either side of the front cockpit, fixed to the trailing edge of the top mainplane, displayed a neat little row of electric light bulbs, spaced equally apart. The distance between each bulb and the next represented five knots of enemy speed.

By arriving over the sea at right-angles to the enemy ship at a range of about two thousand yards, the pilot would steer towards the ship with the correct light bulb in line with the ship's bow. For example, a ship doing 20 knots needed four light bulbs between its bow and the nose of the aircraft. In a daylight attack, because the aircraft was most vulnerable during this breathtaking run-in, and the time spent low on the water had to be reduced to seconds if the pilot was going to be able to deliver his weapon and survive, the assessment of enemy speed had to be made before the pilot started his dive. Last minute yawing - by use of rudder - to keep the bulb in line, only served to throw the torpedo out of true when it was released, and then it might run in circles."
Releasing the weapon. "The torpedo, or magnetic mine, slung under the fuselage, was released by an electric firing-switch on top of the throttle, operated by the pilot with his left thumb. Because the weapon was so heavy, the moment it was released the aircraft's nose would surge upwards, and so with his right hand the pilot had to hold it down and keep the aircraft in level flight, otherwise the torpedo would 'porpoise'. If the nose of the aircraft was allowed to rise the torpedo would be tossed in the general direction of the target so that it entered the sea with a splash, like a diver doing a belly-flop; but if the aircraft was kept level and steady, the 'fish' entered the sea at the correct angle, without a splash, and sped smoothly towards its target.

All these complications were simplified if the attack could be made at night. There was then no need for a dive approach, and one crept towards the enemy ship at half-throttle in a long glide. Because the Stringbag was a spidery silhouette it was most difficult to see at night when coming in low on the water, and one could approach to very short range so that the torpedo was certain to hit the target. When it did, the first sign to the attacking pilot was a small puff of smoke bursting upwards from the ship's funnel, as she belched from this tremendous blow in the stomach. Then it was time to turn and get to hell out of it in case the ship blew up and took the Swordfish up with her."
Smoked Glass. "...the observers had to squat over the camp fire and smoke their pieces of glass. In strong sunlight, the Swordfish were very vulnerable to fighter attack from the direction of the sun, and the only way to spot them when they dived from the pilot's blind side was for the observer or air-gunner to sit staring into the sun through the smoked glass. Like our single Vickers gun, forward, and the Lewis gun, aft, smoked glass had proved very effective in the First World War, but unlike the guns we found that it was not to be despised in the Second World War."

The men who flew the Swordfish were very brave men, and that has caused me to include the obituaries of any I have seen in the Times or Telegraph, although they were possibly not involved in Greece or Crete. One such was Lt-Cdr Pat Kingsmill whose obituary appeared in the Daily Telegraph, 6 Feb, 2003. The following is a lengthy extract describing some of the action he was involved in.
"Kingsmill was the pilot of one of the six elderly Swordfish, each armed with a single torpedo, which aimed to halt the largest German fleet of the Second World War as it passed through the Channel on February 21, 1941. Although the battle cruisers Scharnhorst and Gneisenau, the heavy cruiser Prinz Eugen and their escorts had been expected to break out from Brest to make for Norway, British inter-service liaison had broken down. Most of Fleet Air Arm Squadron 825, including the 20-year-old Kingsmill, had no experience of battle.
Their leader, Lt-Cdr Eugene Esmonde, had returned the day before from being invested with the DSO at Buckingham Palace for his part in sinking the Bismark; and Kingsmill was in a barber's chair when the alarm was given that the Germans were already off Calais. Admiral Sir Bertram Ramsay, Flag Officer Dover, pleaded with the First Sea Lord not to send them to a certain death, but he gave Esmonde, the authority to decide if he had sufficient fighter cover to attempt an attack.
With only 10 Spitfires rather than the five squadrons he had been promised, Esmonde led his men as they took off from RAF Manston in Kent; the station commander, Wing Commander Tom Gleave, was so appalled that he stood at the end of the snowy runway and saluted each aircraft. The Spitfires of 72 Squadron soon became engaged in dogfights with German fighters and lost sight of the Swordfish, as 825 lumbered at 90 knots an hour towards their target. Esmonde was shot down first but, with his dying action, launched his torpedo. Kingsmill, who was following him, flew so low that he was hit by ricochets from the surface of the sea as he pressed on through the smoke and bursting shells. He watched Esmonde's aircraft erupt in a ball of fire and then his friend Brian Rose crash into the sea, before he turned towards the Prinz Eugen at a range of 2,000 yards. Kingsmill had already received the first of several wounds, a hit in the back. His observer, "Mac" Samples, had blood running from his boots, and his leading telegraphist air gunner, Don Bunce, had his seat shot away, so that he had to brace himself against falling into the sea.
Swordfish W5907 had one wing fire, there was engine damage, and the controls were becoming increasingly sluggish as Kingsmill turned a full circle to avoid enemy fighters, then steadied up for his torpedo drop. The Prinz Eugen manoeuvred violently to comb the torpedo track which just missed astern. As Kingsmill turned away, his Swordfish was hit again, detonating its distress flares. Training ragged fabric streamers and with gaping holes in virtually every part of its wings, fuselage and tail, Kingsmill tried to prevent it stalling before ditching.
There he calmly climbed from his cockpit, crawled the length of the fuselage to the tailplane, helped his crew to escape and slipped into the icy sea. Their dinghy was destroyed by gunfire. ten minutes later Kingsmill and his crew were rescued by a motor torpedo boat. Kingsmill had flown at 40ft. underneath the second flight of Swordfish as they advanced into a wall of fire, and all were shot down; 825 Squadron had lived up to its motto, nihil obstat; nothing stops us.
Afterwards Admiral Ramsay wrote that this gallant sortie constituted one of the finest exhibitions of self-sacrifice and devotion to duty that the war had yet witnessed; on the bridge of the Scharnhorst the navigating officer felt privileged to witness the pilots knowingly and ungrudgingly flying to their doom without hesitation. Esmonde was posthumously awarded the Victoria Cross. The survivors of the second Swordfish, Sub-Lieutenants Rose and Edgar Lee, were awarded the DSO, as were Kingsmill and Samples; Bunce received the Conspicuous Gallantry Medal. The others were awarded a mention in dispatches, all that was allowed by the rules.

Kingsmill died New Year's Day, 2003.

source: http://kevinmcguire.freeuk.com...dillon/swordfish.htm (http://kevinmcguire.freeuk.com/johndillon/swordfish.htm)

damm the guy already die, but it testimonial was amazing in my opinion. all combats of WWII with sure are unic ones, but with totally sure torpedo bomber crews where among the most brave ones.

if anyone may have something to say about this subject, we may do it do it, with sure is a pretty interesting one.

Wildnoob
06-11-2009, 12:48 PM
I found this link that is a testimonial from a RN Fairly Swordfish torpedo bomber aicraft called
Charles Lamb, maybe this content everybody already know, but somewat I would post it here.

Charles Lamb was a Swordfish pilot who took part in a number of actions including the bombing of the Italian fleet in Taranto, action from Greece and other activities in the Med.

have taken a number of extracts from his book to describe what it was like flying the old Swordfish. As a link to one of the ships on the site, in January 1941 Lamb had to ditch, and was rescued by HMS Juno.
Flying instruments on the early Swordfish were basic. "The blind-flying panel and artificial horizon had not appeared on the scene, and all we had to guide us was a Reid and Sigrist Turn-and-bank indicator, and some red mercury in a small thermometer tube, to tell the pilot whether he was flying nose-up or nose-down." New panels were fitted later before they went to the Mediterranean.
Landing on deck was not easy. "The Swordfish has a Bristol Pegasus 111 M.3 radial engine which obscures the flight-deck - and the ship - in the very last stages of a deck landing. Normally, by approaching in a gentle turn to port, right down to the deck, it is possible to keep the deck in sight until straightening up; then it is necessary to look between the engine cylinders, at 'eleven and twelve o'clock', when the yellow bats come into view for a split second as the deck swoops upwards at an alarming rate. This is fine by day, but at night the cylinders are always red-hot, and glow very brightly, and they can obscure the batsman's illuminated signals altogether."
Diving with torpedo. " Of all its many weapons the most devastating was the aerial torpedo. This weighed 1610 lb. and was capable of sinking a 10,000 ton ship within minutes of the moment of impact. To deliver this weapon in the face of intense opposition in daylight, pilots were taught to attack from a steep dive, at speeds of 180 knots and more. They have been known to reach 200 knots in that dive - in extremis - but there was then a real danger of the wings folding back, or tearing off. In that headlong rush to sea level, the pilot had the impression that he was standing on the rudder bar, looking over the top of the centre-section of the upper mainplane. His face was only partially screened, so that a helmet and goggles were a 'must' for all normal individuals. Those dives had to be very nearly vertical. Any modern clean-surfaced aircraft needs many thousands of feet to pull out of a dive, but the Swordfish could be eased out, with a pull-out of less than five hundred feet. After straightening out and throttling back, the forward speed came right down to 90 knots very quickly, because of the drag provided by the fixed undercarriage, and all the struts and wires between the mainplanes. This violent alteration in speed made the aircraft a difficult target for the gun-aimer on the ground, or in the ship being attacked, and the sudden deceleration helped the pilot to deliver his weapon very accurately. Nevertheless there was never any doubt that the Stringbag was a very slow machine, and a vulnerable target for all, especially in daylight."
A simple aircraft. "There were no refinements to bother with, such as flaps or a variable pitch airscrew, and the undercarriage could not be retracted; but the aircraft had one very special asset which, like everything else in the machine, was simple and most effective; its torpedo sight was foolproof if used with care. Whoever designed it was as much a genius as Marcel Lobelle (the aircraft designer). Two rods, one on either side of the front cockpit, fixed to the trailing edge of the top mainplane, displayed a neat little row of electric light bulbs, spaced equally apart. The distance between each bulb and the next represented five knots of enemy speed.

By arriving over the sea at right-angles to the enemy ship at a range of about two thousand yards, the pilot would steer towards the ship with the correct light bulb in line with the ship's bow. For example, a ship doing 20 knots needed four light bulbs between its bow and the nose of the aircraft. In a daylight attack, because the aircraft was most vulnerable during this breathtaking run-in, and the time spent low on the water had to be reduced to seconds if the pilot was going to be able to deliver his weapon and survive, the assessment of enemy speed had to be made before the pilot started his dive. Last minute yawing - by use of rudder - to keep the bulb in line, only served to throw the torpedo out of true when it was released, and then it might run in circles."
Releasing the weapon. "The torpedo, or magnetic mine, slung under the fuselage, was released by an electric firing-switch on top of the throttle, operated by the pilot with his left thumb. Because the weapon was so heavy, the moment it was released the aircraft's nose would surge upwards, and so with his right hand the pilot had to hold it down and keep the aircraft in level flight, otherwise the torpedo would 'porpoise'. If the nose of the aircraft was allowed to rise the torpedo would be tossed in the general direction of the target so that it entered the sea with a splash, like a diver doing a belly-flop; but if the aircraft was kept level and steady, the 'fish' entered the sea at the correct angle, without a splash, and sped smoothly towards its target.

All these complications were simplified if the attack could be made at night. There was then no need for a dive approach, and one crept towards the enemy ship at half-throttle in a long glide. Because the Stringbag was a spidery silhouette it was most difficult to see at night when coming in low on the water, and one could approach to very short range so that the torpedo was certain to hit the target. When it did, the first sign to the attacking pilot was a small puff of smoke bursting upwards from the ship's funnel, as she belched from this tremendous blow in the stomach. Then it was time to turn and get to hell out of it in case the ship blew up and took the Swordfish up with her."
Smoked Glass. "...the observers had to squat over the camp fire and smoke their pieces of glass. In strong sunlight, the Swordfish were very vulnerable to fighter attack from the direction of the sun, and the only way to spot them when they dived from the pilot's blind side was for the observer or air-gunner to sit staring into the sun through the smoked glass. Like our single Vickers gun, forward, and the Lewis gun, aft, smoked glass had proved very effective in the First World War, but unlike the guns we found that it was not to be despised in the Second World War."

The men who flew the Swordfish were very brave men, and that has caused me to include the obituaries of any I have seen in the Times or Telegraph, although they were possibly not involved in Greece or Crete. One such was Lt-Cdr Pat Kingsmill whose obituary appeared in the Daily Telegraph, 6 Feb, 2003. The following is a lengthy extract describing some of the action he was involved in.
"Kingsmill was the pilot of one of the six elderly Swordfish, each armed with a single torpedo, which aimed to halt the largest German fleet of the Second World War as it passed through the Channel on February 21, 1941. Although the battle cruisers Scharnhorst and Gneisenau, the heavy cruiser Prinz Eugen and their escorts had been expected to break out from Brest to make for Norway, British inter-service liaison had broken down. Most of Fleet Air Arm Squadron 825, including the 20-year-old Kingsmill, had no experience of battle.
Their leader, Lt-Cdr Eugene Esmonde, had returned the day before from being invested with the DSO at Buckingham Palace for his part in sinking the Bismark; and Kingsmill was in a barber's chair when the alarm was given that the Germans were already off Calais. Admiral Sir Bertram Ramsay, Flag Officer Dover, pleaded with the First Sea Lord not to send them to a certain death, but he gave Esmonde, the authority to decide if he had sufficient fighter cover to attempt an attack.
With only 10 Spitfires rather than the five squadrons he had been promised, Esmonde led his men as they took off from RAF Manston in Kent; the station commander, Wing Commander Tom Gleave, was so appalled that he stood at the end of the snowy runway and saluted each aircraft. The Spitfires of 72 Squadron soon became engaged in dogfights with German fighters and lost sight of the Swordfish, as 825 lumbered at 90 knots an hour towards their target. Esmonde was shot down first but, with his dying action, launched his torpedo. Kingsmill, who was following him, flew so low that he was hit by ricochets from the surface of the sea as he pressed on through the smoke and bursting shells. He watched Esmonde's aircraft erupt in a ball of fire and then his friend Brian Rose crash into the sea, before he turned towards the Prinz Eugen at a range of 2,000 yards. Kingsmill had already received the first of several wounds, a hit in the back. His observer, "Mac" Samples, had blood running from his boots, and his leading telegraphist air gunner, Don Bunce, had his seat shot away, so that he had to brace himself against falling into the sea.
Swordfish W5907 had one wing fire, there was engine damage, and the controls were becoming increasingly sluggish as Kingsmill turned a full circle to avoid enemy fighters, then steadied up for his torpedo drop. The Prinz Eugen manoeuvred violently to comb the torpedo track which just missed astern. As Kingsmill turned away, his Swordfish was hit again, detonating its distress flares. Training ragged fabric streamers and with gaping holes in virtually every part of its wings, fuselage and tail, Kingsmill tried to prevent it stalling before ditching.
There he calmly climbed from his cockpit, crawled the length of the fuselage to the tailplane, helped his crew to escape and slipped into the icy sea. Their dinghy was destroyed by gunfire. ten minutes later Kingsmill and his crew were rescued by a motor torpedo boat. Kingsmill had flown at 40ft. underneath the second flight of Swordfish as they advanced into a wall of fire, and all were shot down; 825 Squadron had lived up to its motto, nihil obstat; nothing stops us.
Afterwards Admiral Ramsay wrote that this gallant sortie constituted one of the finest exhibitions of self-sacrifice and devotion to duty that the war had yet witnessed; on the bridge of the Scharnhorst the navigating officer felt privileged to witness the pilots knowingly and ungrudgingly flying to their doom without hesitation. Esmonde was posthumously awarded the Victoria Cross. The survivors of the second Swordfish, Sub-Lieutenants Rose and Edgar Lee, were awarded the DSO, as were Kingsmill and Samples; Bunce received the Conspicuous Gallantry Medal. The others were awarded a mention in dispatches, all that was allowed by the rules.

Kingsmill died New Year's Day, 2003.

source: http://kevinmcguire.freeuk.com...dillon/swordfish.htm (http://kevinmcguire.freeuk.com/johndillon/swordfish.htm)

damm the guy already die, but it testimonial was amazing in my opinion. all combats of WWII with sure are unic ones, but with totally sure torpedo bomber crews where among the most brave ones.

if anyone may have something to say about this subject, we may do it do it, with sure is a pretty interesting one.

Dance
06-11-2009, 02:11 PM
It's good stuff Wildnoob, I have read this before, but it's always good to be reminded http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

b2spirita
06-11-2009, 02:13 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif Nice find, thanks.

Vigotsky
06-11-2009, 03:39 PM
Thanks for posting Wildnoob, I hadn't read it before http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Wildnoob
06-11-2009, 04:04 PM
hope that was a good read. again would like to apologize for had take your time to read the content of this topic if it was nothing extraordinary.

Vigotsky
06-11-2009, 04:29 PM
Hey Wildnoob, why are you always so hard with yourself?

It was an interesting read, and would you find more I would be very glad to read it too http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

b2spirita
06-11-2009, 05:01 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Vigotsky:
Hey Wildnoob, why are you always so hard with yourself?

It was an interesting read, and would you find more I would be very glad to read it too http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

+1000

Please don't feel you have to apologise so often.

DuckyFluff
06-11-2009, 05:05 PM
Great post WildNoob, maybe reminds people of the pure courage and bravery displayed by ordinary people trying to do an extraordinary job. true Heroes all of them. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

How many here would have got into a big paper bag held together with string, wire, and glue, to take on multiple German Battleships together with the cream of the Luftwaffe? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif

Wildnoob
06-11-2009, 05:37 PM
I don't think I'm hard with myself, it's actually vice versa. know, I need to act like that because if I don't have self control I start to act really like a idiot. other day I fell just a LITTLE out of control and created a topic here thinking I was flying a B5N, and just because I had this magic inspiration I open a tread about it. when I check it in the other day I was choked. though "no, I don't belive creat this topic, can't belive that have done this to my buddys". I'm a very problematic person, have a lot of problems in my life that the fault belong to anyone more them myself. think I gonna start treatment with a physiatrist. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

this is a OFF and VERY discuting personal subject, but somewat I have say it. I'm really crazy, don't give attention to me folks, seriosly. and let's forgot this, the subject here is the Fairly Swordfish and all other torpedo bombers and related subjects or anything that come in your thoughts.

PS: thank you so much for have say this to me guys, I really love you all, but really don't care for this.

WTE_Galway
06-11-2009, 05:44 PM
Its such a shame the swordfish that was talked about never made it into the game.

Not just becasue we needed more torpedoe bombers in general. The Stringbag is awesome in its own right.

Wildnoob
06-11-2009, 05:46 PM
by the way, I don't know anything about torpedo sigths.

Oleg didn't modelate them for some planes that actually have this device in IL2, with sure have his reasons because it was SO much work to do, but take a look at this shots from cockpits of Japanese planes from CFS-2:

http://plasticmodel.nobody.jp/pc-game-2.htm

oh, there's something that caugth my curiosity and may let some persons in doubt; the B5N cockpit that I know is actually the first one in the images from the link, that has 5 instruments in the upper console. the another below with 4, I really don't have any idea of wat could be. MAYBE can be a B5N1 and not maybe, this is very provable, as this is not show in the numeration in the second description. but I will confirm this, because don't know anything about modifications in the panel instrument from the B5N1 from the B5N2. don't have information if this occur or not, would confirm this information, hold on. well, both the G4M and the G3M can be see with such kind of device also.

anyway folks, would like to ask something if possible please, I have almost totally sure of it, but this kind device calculate the deflection angle of the moving target vessel and speed of the plane to launch the torpedo and ensure a hit on the target logic as far away from AAA as possible logic, it's operational is somewat like a gyroscopic gunsigth I belive, isn't?

Vigotsky
06-11-2009, 05:47 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Wildnoob:
I don't think I'm hard with myself, it's actually vice versa. know, I need to act like that because if I don't have self control I start to act really like a idiot. other day I fell just a LITTLE out of control and created a topic here thinking I was flying a B5N, and just because I had this magic inspiration I open a tread about it. when I check it in the other day I was choked. though "no, I don't belive creat this topic, can't belive that have done this to my buddys". I'm a very problematic person, have a lot of problems in my life that the fault belong to anyone more them myself. think I gonna start treatment with a physiatrist. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

this is a OFF and VERY discuting personal subject, but somewat I have say it. I'm really crazy, don't give attention to me folks, seriosly. and let's forgot this, the subject here is the Fairly Swordfish and all other torpedo bombers and related subjects or anything that come in your thoughts.

PS: thank you so much for have say this to me guys, I really love you all, but really don't care for this. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You mean the post about your hope that Oleg would also model the navigator position etc.. in multi-seat aircraft, so as to have even more immersion in having to communicate with them?

Actually I liked the idea a lot and I've been thinking about it recently just because of you.

Wildnoob
06-11-2009, 06:09 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by WTE_Galway:
we needed more torpedoe bombers in general </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

agreed totally buddy. but we don't need more, we need torpedo bombers, because we didn't have have ANY though the history of this sim (by official devolphment), at least from the carrier born models!

no Fairly Swordfish, no TBD Devastator, no TBM/TBF Avenger, no B5N, no B6N. shame really, Oleg may had his reasons but this is one of the worst negative sides for the pacific figthers (in my personal opinion is the worst one in the pacific theater of operations) expansion and IL2 itself now all expansions are united in a single package.

Wildnoob
06-11-2009, 06:13 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Vigotsky:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Wildnoob:
I don't think I'm hard with myself, it's actually vice versa. know, I need to act like that because if I don't have self control I start to act really like a idiot. other day I fell just a LITTLE out of control and created a topic here thinking I was flying a B5N, and just because I had this magic inspiration I open a tread about it. when I check it in the other day I was choked. though "no, I don't belive creat this topic, can't belive that have done this to my buddys". I'm a very problematic person, have a lot of problems in my life that the fault belong to anyone more them myself. think I gonna start treatment with a physiatrist. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

this is a OFF and VERY discuting personal subject, but somewat I have say it. I'm really crazy, don't give attention to me folks, seriosly. and let's forgot this, the subject here is the Fairly Swordfish and all other torpedo bombers and related subjects or anything that come in your thoughts.

PS: thank you so much for have say this to me guys, I really love you all, but really don't care for this. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You mean the post about your hope that Oleg would also model the navigator position etc.. in multi-seat aircraft, so as to have even more immersion in having to communicate with them?

Actually I liked the idea a lot and I've been thinking about it recently just because of you. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't have words, really.

say thank you very much is just isn't enough and even any other word.

but really thanks, can't belive that someone like from this idea, but really would like to express my gratitude, even that done this is impossible.

Vigotsky
06-11-2009, 06:27 PM
You don't have to thank me for liking your idea http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

But on topic, I'm sorry that I can't help on the CFS:2 screenshots... I'm no good in B5N2 cockpits.

Wildnoob
06-11-2009, 06:47 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Vigotsky:
You don't have to thank me for liking your idea http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

But on topic, I'm sorry that I can't help on the CFS:2 screenshots... I'm no good in B5N2 cockpits. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

oh, of course I need mister Vigotsky. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

no way and never more say sorry to me please. and such info I will find, you or anyone here should loose searching for this, leave this one for me.

well, I found something that may can have conection:

"AFAIK, the B5n1 and B5N2 were identical externally with the exception of the nose area. The B5N2's Sakae engine was smaller in radius than the B5N1's Hikari engine, and the cowling was shrunk to make the plane more streamlined. Also, the B5N2 has a spinner, while the B5N1 just had the bare propellor hub. The difference is quite noticeable, actually. The B5N2 cowling is straight, whereas the B5N1 cowling appears to bulge out towards the nose.
HTH,
Micah Bly"

source: http://www.j-aircraft.com/faq/B5N.htm

I need the specific information, but looks quiet probable I belive, because there changes in the nose area due to the new engine, and it's really possible that alterations where done in the instrument panel. but this may could had happen, life I've say, I'll find this info because will never let anyone here with doubt about this.

WTE_Galway
06-11-2009, 06:47 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Wildnoob:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by WTE_Galway:
we needed more torpedoe bombers in general </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

agreed totally buddy. but we don't need more, we need torpedo bombers, because we didn't have have ANY though the history of this sim (by official devolphment), at least from the carrier born models!
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well there was the IL2T but as you say, not a carrier plane. I used to get silly scores on HL sinking boats with the IL2T while other ppl were doing the macho furball thing http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I believe the NG intellectual property farce killed off one of the American torpedo bombers along with a virtually ready US carrier.

If you haven't already got a copy, Charles Lambs "War in a Stringbag" is an awesome read ...

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41Lm7pL3HDL._SS500_.jpg

Wildnoob
06-11-2009, 06:59 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by WTE_Galway:
I used to get silly scores on HL sinking boats with the IL2T while other ppl were doing the macho furball thing http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

say the same mister WTE_Galway!

I keep imaginating, you taking off, flying, sunk one boat, RTB, sunk another, sunk another and you manage to complete the mission objective for your side while everyone is in a furball turning inside another plane while another one is turning inside another one in, well, the furball logic.

I laugth a lot really, you are very brave, and people like you that really win the missions. nothing against figther pilot's LOGIC, even that a real figther pilot will provide suport for strike aicraft, they know very well their task. but know, every time I remember of the people in the furballs that just know turn inside a enemy plane and just do this, and pilot's like you that go there and strike everything they have and they even don't see you in most times because they are busy searching for enemy figthers, can't stop of laugth. it's very fun, because you just take a fligth route a little out of their base location that normally there will be no pilot's making patrols in other areas. I don't play much in HL and logic that this is not a generalization for the online public, but I see this with frequency, and it's very fun to destroy all the surface targets and complete the mission when the enemy figthers are just searching for another figthers. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">If you haven't already got a copy, Charles Lambs "War in a Stringbag" is an awesome read ...

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41Lm7pL3HDL._SS500_.jpg </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

pretty interesting, thanks for the recommendation, with sure will aquire this publication!

seems really very interesting.

Zeus-cat
06-11-2009, 08:46 PM
I also recommend To War in a Strinbag. I have read it as well as another Swordfish book, Bring Back My Stringbag. Both are excellent books and well worth reading.

Stringbag pilots loved their aircraft and it is amazing how effective they were even in 1945.

WTE_Galway
06-11-2009, 10:13 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Zeus-cat:
I also recommend To War in a Strinbag. I have read it as well as another Swordfish book, Bring Back My Stringbag. Both are excellent books and well worth reading.

Stringbag pilots loved their aircraft and it is amazing how effective they were even in 1945. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I recall reading somewhere it was the success of the Stringbag torpedo attacks in the Mediterranean that inspired the Japanese to go ahead with plans for the attack on Pearl Harbor.

I haven't read that second book will have to chase it up.

F19_Orheim
06-12-2009, 06:26 AM
War in a Stringbag.. excellent book:
My little review:

War in a stringbag
by Charles Lamb
Autobiographical
ISBN-10: 030435841X
ISBN-13: 978-0304358410

Do you like crapplanes? Do you like to read about immensly brave men who piloted (and gunned) hugely obsolete airplanes - who flew these biplanes with a bug fueltank wide open in the extra seat? This is the memoirs of one of these extraordinary men; Charles Lamb - a young Fleet Air Arm pilot who flew the Swordfish during the war. He first handedly experienced the sinking of HMS Courageous early in the war (he was the last to land on her - there is even a photo of this landing in the book), he dropped mines in German ship lanes, participated in the Taranto raid and other missions in the Med. I won't tell you TOO much, but this is indeed a VERY good read, written by the man himself.

Wildnoob
06-12-2009, 07:10 AM
thank you very much guys guys for the recommendations, attention and everything else, really thanks! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Trefle
06-12-2009, 07:49 AM
Thank you for the article Wildnoob , it's good to remember them , these pilots were real heroes in their rudimentary Swordfish , one really needed balls of steel to attack battleships in those fragile biplanes

Durchstarten
06-12-2009, 09:58 AM
Which reminds me, one of the crews who attacked the Bismark is still alive and well and living in Scotland.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sco..._central/4931310.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/tayside_and_central/4931310.stm)

I saw Commander John Moffat on TV the other week at the Fleet Air Arm event in London.

Wildnoob
06-12-2009, 11:05 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Durchstarten:
Which reminds me, one of the crews who attacked the Bismark is still alive and well and living in Scotland.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sco..._central/4931310.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/tayside_and_central/4931310.stm)

I saw Commander John Moffat on TV the other week at the Fleet Air Arm event in London. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

wow thanks for the info! long and extremely happy life to those brave aviators! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

RedToo
06-12-2009, 03:29 PM
This is a good book about the Swordfish:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v369/RedToo/Stringbag.jpg

The Swordfish relies on her Peggy,
The modified Taurus ain't sound,
So the Swordfish flies off on her missions
And the Albacore stays on the ground.

Bring back, bring back,
Oh bring back my Stringbag to me ...


RedToo.

Waldo.Pepper
06-13-2009, 05:05 PM
A contribution from me. Swordfish as Nightfighter! Yes Nightfighter.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/WaldoPepper/book/nf1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/WaldoPepper/book/nf2.jpg