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LAPIII1980
04-11-2007, 07:28 AM
Is there ever a reason to trim except for on Runways? When and how do you trim? Is there some place where I can learn more about trimming? If I move for a trim how do I recenter when I'm done?

LAPIII1980
04-11-2007, 07:28 AM
Is there ever a reason to trim except for on Runways? When and how do you trim? Is there some place where I can learn more about trimming? If I move for a trim how do I recenter when I'm done?

Hanglands
04-11-2007, 07:43 AM
Hi,

Trim is important for many reasons, from giving your hand a rest (ooer!) to fuel economy, to achieving optimal speeds, to taking off in a storm.

Check this guide :
http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/il2guide/downloads/il2guide.pdf (http://people.ee.ethz.ch/%7Echapman/il2guide/downloads/il2guide.pdf)

Check the Ground School section, then look ito the Secondary Control Surfaces chapter, then select the Trim heading.

Not often is there a need to ask the same question in more than one part of the forums.

Cheers.

VonTonar
04-11-2007, 02:20 PM
I trim almost as much as I fly http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

VW-IceFire
04-11-2007, 04:14 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by VonTonar:
I trim almost as much as I fly http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
It's almost safe to say that I spend more time thinking about checking the trim than I do about flying. I'm thinking I need to write a guide or something about it.

Trimming is essential to keep your nose up or down depending on your speed. Likewise if your plane is slipping to the left or right due to torque from the engine then you need to use rudder trim. The worst culprits are the P-39, P-63, Tempest, Mustang, Spitfire, and Yak. Probably more. The 109 and 190 are pretty light on the trim requirements...just elevator.

WB_Outlaw
04-11-2007, 08:09 PM
Trimming the aircraft does nothing more than allow you to fly without contantly laying on the controls. The German fighters only have trim on the elevator so rudder and aileron input is required for coordinated flight at all but the cruise speed (that's what the fixed rudder/aileron trim tabs are set for). Except in cases where the stick force is a limiting factor trimming the aircraft is no different than using the stick/rudder.

Torque is countered with aileron trim as it produces a rolling moment. Rudder trim is used to counteract the helical propwash and p-factor effects.

--Outlaw.

BSS_Vidar
04-17-2007, 08:51 PM
E'rbody is kind'a beatin' around the bush here. He wants to know when and why.

Proper proceedure for trimming an airplane 101.

Reason - To facilitate steady-state flight. Meaning level flight, constant speed climb, constant speed decent, or speed change. Also, being this is a Combat Flight sim, trimming to counter any damage to maintain steady-state flight.

* note: Keep in mind, this is a Russian sim and they use a differnt point of view in regards to trim. In this game, trim direction is in regards to tab movement, not aircraft nose movement reletive to the horizontal plane like in the western world.
i.e. Positive Trim here is an upward movement of the trim tab on the elevator. This will result in a downward pressure on the elevator, thus, pushing the nose down. Positive makes a negative... go figure. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif

Step 1. Enter the attitude you wish to maintain at a specific power setting. see list above.

Step 2. While maintaining the desired attitude with stick pressure, select a trim function that takes the dynamic pressure out of the flight controls by allowing you to maintain the desired attitude and heading "almost hands off".

If you change speed, revert back to Step 1.
example: An increase in speed will generate more lift, thus the nose will pitch up, and visa versa. New power settings require revised trim settings.

Hope this helps.

LEXX_Luthor
04-18-2007, 03:00 AM
BSS_Vidar:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Reason - To facilitate steady-state flight. Meaning level flight, constant speed climb, constant speed decent, or speed change. Also, being this is a Combat Flight sim, trimming to counter any damage to maintain steady-state flight.
:
:
* note: Keep in mind, this is a Russian sim and they use a differnt point of view in regards to trim. In this game, trim direction is in regards to tab movement, not aircraft nose movement reletive to the horizontal plane like in the western world.
i.e. Positive Trim here is an upward movement of the trim tab on the elevator. This will result in a downward pressure on the elevator, thus, pushing the nose down. Positive makes a negative... go figure. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Pilots used trim in combat maneuvers during World War 2, although the fidelity of the flight models here may not be high enough to model this use. I don't have the latest versions of this sim, so I dunno.

If I recall, positive or negative with respect to trim control movement is set in the game's controls menu. Its up to the player's choice. If that's what you are trying to say, you could have been more clear.

MaxMhz
04-18-2007, 04:40 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Pilots used trim in combat maneuvers during World War 2, although the fidelity of the flight models here may not be high enough to model this use. I don't have the latest versions of this sim, so I dunno. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Trim could be used in combat maneuvres in the original IL-2 Sturmovik. Sadly Oleg and team gave in to the constant whining of this community and toned-down the effect of trim and also introduced a time delay. This makes it allmost worthless in combat maneuvres from FB V1.0 onward. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif The dev. team would do good to completely ignore this community IMHO.

gdfo
04-18-2007, 04:52 AM
"also introduced a time delay."

So it is not just me!!! How despicable to introduce an unrealistic time delay on a point in realism that they have control over. Making the trim time delay is a reverse exploit, an inverted cheat. If the game is modeled the correct type of trim for some planes and then the effect is not correct, IT SHOULD BE CHANGED in the next patch.

BSS_Vidar
04-18-2007, 02:13 PM
Trim was not used in combat maneuvers the way some of you are thinking. This problem was also in CFS2.

Trim had to be manueally manipulated to take out dynamic forces in the flight controls. This process took time to do. They didn't have high torque electric motors to move the tabs. Even by today's standards with electric powered trim, the changes are pretty slow.

These 2 games allowed "Gamers" to assign trim to an axis where-by instantanious full deflection of the trim tab was available to the gamer. This was a completely inaccurate issue with the game's flight model, so they did the right thing by "dumbing it down".

If you want to use Chuck Yeager's trim tactics, you pre-set significant nose-up trim prior to manuevering. Thinking that Gen Yeager took his hand off the throttle in a dog fight to really give his elevator trim wheel a really hard spin is completley inaccurate. The trim wheel did NOT spin freely, nor does it in todays high performance aircraft.

LEXX_Luthor
04-18-2007, 03:15 PM
BSS_Vidar:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Thinking that Gen Yeager took his hand off the throttle in a dog fight to really give his elevator trim wheel a really hard spin is completley inaccurate. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
P-51 pilot Bud Anderson writes of using the trim wheels in combat, although he was a fine pilot. At least in his writings, Mr. Anderson does not use the intentionally deceptive Online Dogfight Gamer slogan of "hard spin" when he refers to using the trim wheels in combat.

Vidar, can you clear up your poast about "positive" and "negative" trim here? Ya kinda faded away there, in a wee bit of fogg.

LEXX_Luthor
04-18-2007, 03:50 PM
MaxMhz:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Trim could be used in combat maneuvres in the original IL-2 Sturmovik. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
If you refer to slider elevator trim "cheating" that is said to have happened in original IL-2, that was a game design fault and should not be possible. If you refer to "normal" computer controls, like mousewheel I use for elevator trim, well I don't know if original IL-2 FMs were that detailed to model the combat trim use Bud Anderson describes. Perhaps so. I dunno. I do know in FB 1.0 Oleg crippled his own flight models by artificially slowing elevator trim in an attempt to prevent "online cheating" with slider controls, at the cost of 95% of the customers who play Offline and the many Online players wanting to use trim in their flight models. But, this majority of customers were accused of being "online cheaters" at this webboard for such a desire, including the purely Offline players, and even real World War 2 pilots.

In the words of the "Online Cheater" Bud Anderson...

Mr. Anderson:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Good old Mustang.

He is falling away now, and I flop the nose over and go after him hard. We are very high by this time, six miles and then some, and falling very, very fast. The Messerschmitt had a head start, plummeting out of my range, but I'm closing up quickly. Then he flattens out and comes around hard to the left and starts climbing again, as if he wants to come at me head on. Suddenly we're right back where we started.

A lot of this is just instinct now. Things are happening too fast to think everything out. You steer with your right hand and feet. The right hand also triggers the guns. With your left, you work the throttle, <span class="ev_code_yellow">and</span> keep the airplane in trim, which is easier to do than describe.

Any airplane with a single propeller produces torque. The more horsepower you have, the more the prop will pull you off to one side. The Mustangs I flew used a 12-cylinder Packard Merlin engine that displaced 1,649 cubic inches. That is 10 times the size of the engine that powers an Indy car. It developed power enough that you never applied full power sitting still on the ground because it would pull the plane's tail up off the runway and the propeller would chew up the concrete. With so much power, you were continually making minor adjustments on the controls to keep the Mustang and its wing-mounted guns pointed straight.

There were three little palm-sized wheels you had to keep fiddling with. They trimmed you up for hands-off level flight ((a simplification ignoring climb and descent as BSS described, ~Lexx)). One was for the little trim tab on the tail's rudder, the vertical slab which moves the plane left or right. Another adjusted the tab on the tail's horizontal elevators that raise or lower the nose and help reduce the force you had to apply for hard turning. The third was for aileron trim, to keep your wings level, although you didn't have to fuss much with that one. Your left hand was down there a lot if you were changing speeds, as in combat . . . while at the same time you were making minor adjustments with your feet on the rudder pedals and your hand on the stick. At first it was awkward. But, with experience, it was something you did without thinking, like driving a car and twirling the radio dial.

It's a little unnerving to think about how many things you have to deal with all at once to fly combat.

So the Messerschmitt is coming around again....

~&gt; http://www.cebudanderson.com/ch1.htm

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

BSS_Vidar
04-18-2007, 08:57 PM
Sure!

In the game, "elevator trim positive" and "elevator trim negative" are the names of a key commands which give direction of trim tab movement - not nose up or down movement. Even though it says "positive trim", it is in fact nose down trim.

When the trim tab goes up, it forces the elevator down, which gives you nose down trim. Visa verso fortrim tab downward movement. Tab down + elevator up = nose up.

P.S. As for my "spinning the thrim wheel" comment, I was joking. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif
Some monitor jokeys in here think they should have insta-trim.

BM357_Sniper
04-18-2007, 08:59 PM
In that neat little excerpt (Lexx) you posted it looks like he is talking about chasing someone and trimming in the process. (over 6 miles worth) You'd be hard pressed to be constantly trimming while in a turn fight. The same goes for the way everyone is constantly using flaps in here. Listen to Vidar, he knows what he is talking about. He's not just someone that reads books and sits behind a monitor with IL2. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

LEXX_Luthor
04-18-2007, 09:21 PM
Sniper:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Listen to Vidar, he knows what he is talking about. He's not just someone that reads books and sits behind a monitor with IL2. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Oleg's customers had enough of hostile Online players hiding behind the mask of "real life pilot(tm)" claims. We had "real life" commercial pilots at this webboard accusing Oleg's customers of wanting to cheat online with sliders, when these accused customers didn't use sliders, or were Offline and Online players who didn't use sliders for trim but were merely asking for functional elevator trim in their World War 2 flight models.

Vidar:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Some monitor jokeys in here think they should have insta-trim </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Note the use of the traditional hostile Online players' slogan "insta trim(tm)." This slogan dates from the old Trim Wars at this webboard. The one (1) real life pilot, that I recall, who did not lie to this community about aircraft was TX_Ecodragon, an aerobatic pilot who told us aircraft elevator trim responds very quickly and was not modelled by the artificially slowed trim of the pre-4.0 game.

Note as well the insult against people who nobody here knows are are pilots or not pilots. In this case, we may well call TX_Ecodragon a "monitor jokey."

The community will, however, listen to Bud Anderson.


Sniper:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">In that neat little excerpt (Lexx) you posted it looks like he is talking about chasing someone and trimming in the process. (over 6 miles worth) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
The "six miles" was a figure Mr. Anderson gave for the altitude the combat generally took place, as you read. When you wish to talk with this community without deception, this community is willing to talk with you.

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d178/Lexx_Luthor/Smileys/thumbs.gif

BSS_Vidar
04-18-2007, 10:18 PM
NICE SHOT Lex! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/typing.gif

I am a commercialy rated pilot, I do have some time in the Extra 300 and the P-51D Mustang. Along with a few thousand hours flying in the Navy for 20 years of my life.

But hey, this is only trim we're talking about. As far a hostility goes, I had no intention. I retract my "Monitor Jockey" statement. I was just having a lil fun. Sorry folks.

LEXX_Luthor
04-18-2007, 10:25 PM
Vidar:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I am a commercialy rated pilot, I do have some time in the Extra 300 and the P-51D Mustang. Along with a few thousand hours flying in the Navy for 20 years of my life. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Great, now start acting like a real pilot, and not some bitter computer gamer. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif Thanks!!

The pos/neg labels are mixed up. I recall stories or writings of military jet test pilots pulling the wrong lever. Happens to even the best. The first time I mapped trim to my mousewheel, it went opposite the way I hoped. So, I reversed the wheel movement in setting the mapping. If its a "Russian" way of doing things, it may be the way they do things, like Luftwaffe aircraft have metric instrument guages. I never figured how two Peoples sharing such a great cultural similarity could goto war. I really love metric guages, and as far as I know, this is the first sim outside the original FLAKER sim of 1995 to offer the customer metric instrument panel.

LEXX_Luthor
04-18-2007, 10:40 PM
If you really want to see a "snafu," chzech this out...

Diecast model, F-16 Fighting Flacon ~&gt; http://www.snafudiecast.com/DR50037.jpg

Which adds another to My List...

Su-27 Flaker
F-22 Rapper
F-16 Flacon

BM357_Sniper
04-19-2007, 04:19 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LEXX_Luthor:
Sniper:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Listen to Vidar, he knows what he is talking about. He's not just someone that reads books and sits behind a monitor with IL2. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Oleg's customers had enough of hostile Online players hiding behind the mask of "real life pilot(tm)" claims. We had "real life" commercial pilots at this webboard accusing Oleg's customers of wanting to cheat online with sliders, when these accused customers didn't use sliders, or were Offline and Online players who didn't use sliders for trim but were merely asking for functional elevator trim in their World War 2 flight models.

Vidar:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Some monitor jokeys in here think they should have insta-trim </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Note the use of the traditional hostile Online players' slogan "insta trim(tm)." This slogan dates from the old Trim Wars at this webboard. The one (1) real life pilot, that I recall, who did not lie to this community about aircraft was TX_Ecodragon, an aerobatic pilot who told us aircraft elevator trim responds very quickly and was not modelled by the artificially slowed trim of the pre-4.0 game.

Note as well the insult against people who nobody here knows are are pilots or not pilots. In this case, we may well call TX_Ecodragon a "monitor jokey."

The community will, however, listen to Bud Anderson.


Sniper:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">In that neat little excerpt (Lexx) you posted it looks like he is talking about chasing someone and trimming in the process. (over 6 miles worth) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
The "six miles" was a figure Mr. Anderson gave for the altitude the combat generally took place, as you read. When you wish to talk with this community without deception, this community is willing to talk with you.

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d178/Lexx_Luthor/Smileys/thumbs.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

WOW! Talk about twisting words and being defensive! I never attacked you or even came close to trying to flame. I said, the way it looks.......Maybe you should take a flight lesson or two, maybe something with manners. Since you had to go there, Vidar and myself are both commercial pilots, although I did something different in the military.

The only aircraft that may have your wished for gaming trim like eco is talking about is an aerobatic plane. I can't answer that (aerobatic aircraft), however I can agree with Vidar in saying that any aircraft I've flown doesn't have trim that is so sensitive that you can just click it a few times and its in full deflection or even close. If you want some info on warbirds there are about 25 sitting out on our ramp and I can find out directly from the source. Just promise me you won't flip out and that you'll take your meds before you reply this time. That bipolar thing of yours is really inturupting this discussion.

LEXX_Luthor
04-19-2007, 07:02 PM
Sniper:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">The only aircraft that may have your wished for gaming trim like eco is talking about is an aerobatic plane. I can't answer that (aerobatic aircraft), however I can agree with Vidar in saying that any aircraft I've flown doesn't have trim that is so sensitive that you can just click it a few times and its in full deflection or even close. If you want some info on warbirds there are about 25 sitting out on our ramp and I can find out directly from the source. Just promise me you won't flip out and that you'll take your meds before you reply this time. That bipolar thing of yours is really inturupting this discussion. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Pilots who were honest with the community here have told us that aircraft -- other than "aerobatic" planes -- respond quickly enough to trim changes that trim was usable in flight, unlike the FB 1.0 crippled trim when not used with sliders.

Other controls besides "sliders" did not give the instant full deflection you speak of. These other controls are what most of Oleg's customers use. Highly competitive Online players, including some self-advertised "real life" pilots at this webboard who were also very highly competitive Online Forgotten Battles gamers, accused Oleg's customers of wanting to cheat online with sliders, even accusing the Offline players and Online players who didn't use sliders when these customers asked Oleg to return functional elevator trim to their flight models.

When you wish to talk about non-slider trim control at this webboard, the community is willing to talk with you. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

BM357_Sniper
04-19-2007, 07:26 PM
Hopefully this will get my thoughts across better. If trim is on a slider without the delay all we have to do is just flip it with our thumb. In most planes, that we're talking about, it takes more than a thumb flip. In most aircraft, I'd dare say you'd have to remove your hand from the throttle to adjust the trim. Does any of that make sense?

LAPIII1980
04-19-2007, 07:34 PM
Yes it makes sense, thank you

buzzsaw1939
04-19-2007, 07:44 PM
Is this aa private brawl, or can anyone join ? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif the pitch trim is too slow, (period
!!) what the hell is a slider? and how do you cheat with the trim?? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

LEXX_Luthor
04-19-2007, 08:12 PM
Sniper:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Hopefully this will get my thoughts across better. If trim is on a slider without the delay all we have to do is just flip it with our thumb. In most planes, that we're talking about, it takes more than a thumb flip. In most aircraft, I'd dare say you'd have to remove your hand from the throttle to adjust the trim. Does any of that make sense? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
That makes sense and applied to players who used a slider for elevator trim, and applied to Online players who were cheated by other Online players exploiting the slider trim. Thank You!

Other pilots here were willing to teach the non-flying FB community long ago that the delayed trim of FB 1.0 did not allow players to use trim while flying their aircraft in the game while non-slider controls were used for trim control, and they taught how real aircraft have trim that is usable by, and very helpful to, the pilot during flight.

And it made sense last page where we read Bud Anderson's writing of working throttle and trim during combat manuevers.

BSS_Vidar
04-21-2007, 01:55 PM
That's the point Sniper is trying to make here. Trim IS instantanious when put in to flight controls in the realisitc amounts it was intended for (which is very small with each turn of the trim-wheel). The slider allows full deflection of the trim tab instantaniously - which is what I was refuring to when calling it "Insta-trim". No trim on ANY aircraft has worked like that. Flight control management for steady-state flight would be unmanagable. Several revolutions of the trim wheel would have to occure for full delefection - and that takes time to do.

So, even though Yeager and Anderson DID use trim in a fight at times, (I am VERY aware of these two great combat aces) there was very little movement of the tab at any give adjustment. However, it was enough to help out in high G manuevers which would make stick inputs easier on the pilot.

The delay "I think" allows the playing field to be evened out by not allowing certain gamers to take advantage of players who are more into the realistic feeling of flight. The delay pretty much restricts everyone to utilize trim for what it was meant for. Stablizing your aircraft.

LAPIII1980
04-21-2007, 04:54 PM
I'm just curious, how much do you all trim?

BSS_Vidar
04-21-2007, 05:27 PM
Whenever I change speed - Just like in the real world. However, due to the delay in the game, it takes a little more effort to attain steady-state flight than in a real aircraft. So, I'm constantly bumping in a little and taking out a little here an there.

However; Once I'm in a dogfight, trim is the last of my worries. I bump a little nose up just befor engaging and leave it alone. I re-trim when I'm RTB for the new weight due to less gas, and any damage that needs to be countered.

LEXX_Luthor
04-21-2007, 07:27 PM
Right. FB 4.0 with the new flight models have returned responsive trim to normal computer controls, including my mousewheel (at least as of Patch 4.04!!) . Indeed, the New FM requires fast acting and thus usable trim more than the auto-stable old flight models, and it was a funny episode when so many "hardcore" Online players at ubi.com complained about suddenly having to learn how to trim for the first time after Patch 4.0. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif


Vidar:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">The delay "I think" allows the playing field to be evened out by not allowing certain gamers to take advantage of players who are more into the realistic feeling of flight. The delay pretty much restricts <span class="ev_code_yellow">everyone</span> to utilize trim for what it was meant for. Stablizing your aircraft. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
That was the intent -- preserve Online gameplay from "cheating" with elevator trim mapped to sliders, although as directly honest online player and pilot TX_Ecodragon and a few others (example - JetBuff) noted clearly to our non-flying members, the artificial trim delay introduced with FB 1.0 eliminated aircraft trim as a useful simulation feature for the majority of Oleg's customers -- ~95% of "everyone" -- who did not use sliders and/or who did not fly online.

gdfo
04-22-2007, 07:17 AM
To answer one question.

You manage trim when you change engine power,fuel consumption, ammo load out,and course changes.

As to the issue of instant response to trim, I think the creators did a bad thing by putting the delay on the trim functions. The correct course should have been to correct the flight models themselves. There are exploits in any game. A player with a very powerfull computer and many expensive hardware add ons has a distinct advantage over players who do not have those things. Many players do not have Trak IR or Rudder pedals or expensive flight controlers or enough ram or fast internet or processors that push the game easily. Are any upgraded machines banned? NO.

If the trim response is wrong then it should be fixed. If the FM's are wrong then they should be fixed.

I have seen the most ridiculous flight manurvers in on line play. I am told it is due to lag or bad pings. Some of that I belive some of it I do not believe.

Back to original question,trim the plane as often as needed in the circumstances you are playing in.