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jds1978
09-05-2005, 06:21 AM
just wondering...who here plays "Dead is Dead"
ie: no refly...you bail out and get captured you're screwed...wounded?...skip the next two campaigns.

i've started this practice recently with lowengrins DCG. really hellish. the longest i've lasted was 12 consecutive missions. Un- Lucky 13 anyone?... you guessed it! smoked out of the sky on my 13th mission. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_redface.gif

jds1978
09-05-2005, 06:21 AM
just wondering...who here plays "Dead is Dead"
ie: no refly...you bail out and get captured you're screwed...wounded?...skip the next two campaigns.

i've started this practice recently with lowengrins DCG. really hellish. the longest i've lasted was 12 consecutive missions. Un- Lucky 13 anyone?... you guessed it! smoked out of the sky on my 13th mission. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_redface.gif

neural_dream
09-05-2005, 06:43 AM
I do the same with the official campaigns and i even keep a "virtual diary" with the thoughts before and the outcome of the sortie. When you fly "dead is dead" you have a lot to think and possibly to write before you fly http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif. When i die (the longest was 9 missions in the Finnish fighter campaign and the shortest 2 missions twice) i don't play again for a week, which makes dying painful. Meanwhile to feed my addiction i may go for a few hours online until then. The whole process made me much better at surviving online and avoiding very dangerous circumstances but it didn't help my average kills at all http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

Kuna15
09-05-2005, 07:25 AM
I've give up because there is virtually no way that I can play 180+ missions without being captured or dead.

I can last very long if missions are over friendly territory or are not ground attack missions. But that again depends a lot on plane type. For instance you can not really expect to live long while in Tchaika (usually G-attack missions).

JFC_Rautaristi
09-05-2005, 07:34 AM
For me, there's simply no other way. I started to do it in Red Baron II and have done it since then.

Popey109
09-05-2005, 07:55 AM
I do, but I've given up trying to think up new names for my pilots. (no imagination) so I've killed Robert (shallow Grave) pain about 50 time now€¦he's a resilient devil. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif

Rebel_Yell_21
09-05-2005, 08:54 AM
Dead is dead and DCG is the only way to play vs the ai.

Nimits
09-05-2005, 10:06 AM
Personally, I believe it is the only fair way to evaluate the AI. After, in real life, that;s how they "played."

MEGILE
09-05-2005, 10:30 AM
When I die in IL2, I open the window of my 12th floor apartment and jump.
Can't beat full real.

stansdds
09-05-2005, 11:23 AM
If I die in an on-line flight or even if I just have to bail out, I remain silent and do not talk or comment until my group ends its mission. I just sit and watch.

Fox_3
09-05-2005, 12:43 PM
Seems kind of dumb to me anyway, to play the same or similar missions over and over, and never finish the campaign/s.

Popey109
09-05-2005, 01:10 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Megile:
When I die in IL2, I open the window of my 12th floor apartment and jump.
Can't beat full real. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>LOL!! Dued, thats got to make you the most dedicated DiD pilot on the borads http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif wouldnt take long to get good...or give up http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

Kuna15
09-05-2005, 01:59 PM
Nah .. he's joking. He jumps with parachute.

jds1978
09-05-2005, 02:20 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Seems kind of dumb to me anyway, to play the same or similar missions over and over, and never finish the campaign/s. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

check into lowengrin's DCG

http://www.lowengrin.com/content.php?article

the missions are not repetitive at all!

han freak solo
09-05-2005, 09:20 PM
"Dead is Dead"? I play "Alive and Living". http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

In CFS2 I used the selection it gave you after a mission and had a bunch of celebrity named pilots either dead, captured, retired, or still fighting. It was cool with CFS2 because the campaigns were short compared to FB/AEP/PF.

With FB/AEP/PF I've yet to do the "Dead is Dead" thing. That would leave me with several campaigns to delete, and as mentioned keep a log of it somewhere to remind me of my "passing".

It's great that we can play this game however we want to, since it is a game. I'd hate to do the real life version and not have a "refly" button. Salute to all the real pilots and airmen that did not have that button. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

And a thumbs up to y'all that play "Dead is Dead". http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

IL2-chuter
09-06-2005, 02:38 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by JFC_Rautaristi:
For me, there's simply no other way. I started to do it in Red Baron II and have done it since then. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Red Baron II (or 3D) in my honost opinion (that's right, I spelled it out) had the very best campaign design of any flight sim *period* http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

jds1978
09-06-2005, 03:26 AM
" It's great that we can play this game however we want to, since it is a game. I'd hate to do the real life version and not have a "refly" button. Salute to all the real pilots and airmen that did not have that button."

My thoughts exactly...I hope to see the day when war is confined to the history books (or at very least, my PC)

Hopefully no-one gets the idea that i started this thread to be macho or superior.

enjoy your day, folks! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Popey109
09-06-2005, 06:51 AM
Not at all€¦it€s really a good question. I€ve never cared for FPS games but I have played em (don€t know why they don€t have a dynamic campaign) I never hesitate to re-play a mission if it ends badly. I used to play CFS 3, for some reason I don€t understand I never felt bad about re-flying a mission? (Even though it has a dynamic campaign) there€s something about FB+PF that wont allow me to re-fly (even though I haven€t changed my pilots name in 6 months) I have to start over!...it€s really very maddening!...I€ll probably never complete a campaign. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_redface.gif

TacticalYak3
09-06-2005, 07:10 AM
Another option with DCG of course is to have your stats reset on death. This is ideal for online campaigns, as you want folks to continue along in the campaign (unless you're anti-social of course http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif).

Folks have commented how much they like knowing that if they are killed their stats are all gone, and they must reset over in order to earn them there medals.

TactS!

stubby
09-06-2005, 08:02 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by jds1978:
just wondering...who here plays "Dead is Dead"
ie: no refly...you bail out and get captured you're screwed...wounded?...skip the next two campaigns. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_redface.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://combatsimgroup.com/KB/index.php

DID is the only way to fly. Here's a db created by Jetlag, maintained by Rummy, that allows offliners to record their 'DID' glory. Everything is based on the honor system.

Once you start flying in such a way, missions take on a whole new meaning. Survival actually becomes as rewarding as bagging kills. Hitting refly totally removes the anxiety and stress component of flying missions. I can tell you that having a 30+ mission guy means nothing is routine and no chance in combat trivial. My motto is always live to fight another day even if it means I give up an 'easy' kill.

stubby
09-06-2005, 08:03 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by stubby:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by jds1978:
just wondering...who here plays "Dead is Dead"
ie: no refly...you bail out and get captured you're screwed...wounded?...skip the next two campaigns. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_redface.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://combatsimgroup.com/KB/index.php

DID is the only way to fly. Here's a db created by Jetlag, maintained by Rummy, that allows offliners to record their 'DID' glory. Everything is based on the honor system. In additions to recording your glory in the killboard db, there's a forum where you can actually post up a pilot diary to add more to the immersion process.

Once you start flying in such a way, missions take on a whole new meaning. Survival actually becomes as rewarding as bagging kills. Hitting refly totally removes the anxiety and stress component of flying missions. I can tell you that having a 30+ mission guy means nothing is routine and no chance in combat trivial. My motto is always live to fight another day even if it means I give up an 'easy' kill. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

stubby
09-06-2005, 08:07 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Kuna15:
I've give up because there is virtually no way that I can play 180+ missions without being captured or dead. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not true. I know of a few folks that have lived well beyond a 100 missions but it takes whole new level of self discipline to do it. I've tried a hundred times to reach 100 missions alive but have failed (two best runs was 47 missions and my current streak of 53). Each time I have failed in the past was because I did something stupid like chase a bandit down to the deck or allow him to drag me over his airfield where I got greeted by a hail of flak. It's rare that I bought it because of something entirely out of my control. I would say greed is the biggest single factor in ending a survival streak.

neural_dream
09-06-2005, 09:30 AM
Exactly. I can still only dream of the self-discipline that is needed for such streaks, but it can be done. When you die you immediately know why. You knew long before you died, when you took that stupid decision to chase that one last bomber, although you already had smoke coming off your engine. And the frightening thing is that the more you play DID the more you know you would probably do exactly the same in real life. You would go for that last bomber.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Fox_3:
Seems kind of dumb to ..... never finish the campaign/s. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
It's not the destination that counts my friend http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Ithaca

As you set out for Ithaca
hope your road is a long one,
full of adventure, full of discovery.
Laistrygonians, Cyclops,
angry Poseidon - don't be afraid of them:
you' ll never find things like that on your way
as long as you keep your thoughts raised high,
as long as a rare excitement
stirs your spirit and your body.
Laistrygonians, Cyclops,
wild Poseidon - you won't encounter them
unless you bring them along inside your soul,
unless your soul sets them up in front of you.

Hope your road is a long one.
May there be many summer mornings when,
with what pleasure, what joy,
you enter harbours you're seeing for the first time;
may you stop at Phoenician trading stations
to buy fine things,
mother of pearl and coral, amber and ebony,
sensual perfume of every kind -
as many sensual perfumes as you can;
and may you visit many Egyptian cities
to learn and go on learning from their scholars.

Keep Ithaca always in your mind.
Arriving there is what you're destined for.
But don't hurry the journey at all.
Better if it lasts for years,
so you're old by the time you reach the island,
wealthy with all you've gained on the way,
not expecting Ithaca to make you rich.

Ithaca gave you the marvelous journey.
Without her you wouldn't have set out.
She has nothing left to give you now.
And if you find her poor, Ithaca won't have fooled you.
Wise as you will have become, so full of experience,
you'll have understood by then what these Ithakas mean.

K.Kavafis

jds1978
09-06-2005, 12:51 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">And the frightening thing is that the more you play DID the more you know you would probably do exactly the same in real life. You would go for that last bomber. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

oh man, thats so true!

Stubby...thanks for the heads up...i'm gonna be checking into that site.

For the record, i've made it past mission 13. currently getting ready to fly mission 15. unfortunately, my wingman bought the farm during mission 11. we're getting ready to fly a anti-shipping strike. loading up w/ AP HVARs. the skip bombing thing is a little to freaky at my level of (in) experience. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

major_setback
09-06-2005, 01:11 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Megile:
When I die in IL2, I open the window of my 12th floor apartment and jump.
Can't beat full real. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

'You one of 'the un-dead' Megile? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

jds1978
09-06-2005, 01:23 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">'You one of 'the un-dead' Megile? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Naw, i'm thinking more like a George Romero zombie http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif No offense of course http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

"Dawn of the Dead is Dead" anyone?

Treetop64
09-06-2005, 07:15 PM
It's oh so difficult to do it, but when I die, or get captured, I ignore that "Refly Mission" button and go on to delete the campaign.

I wish there was an option to remove the "Refly Mission" button in the difficulty settings when you start a new campaign.

stubby
09-07-2005, 06:57 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Treetop64:
I wish there was an option to remove the "Refly Mission" button in the difficulty settings when you start a new campaign. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Of course the guys that value kills above surviving, they would hate that option.

Here's an idea and one tossed around before. Allow an exclusive 'DiD' option. 'DID' option would have pirks and bonuses not available in other modes that allow 'refly'. For example, real-time kill tally markings on your plane or a special set of nose-art. Additional plane-sets for pilot careers that wouldn't be availabe in other modes (e.g., like a ju88). Unique pilot skins. Maybe CGI cutscreens showing your pilot getting promotions/medals or possibly just stumbling into a pub after a long mission. Maybe include a virtual barracks or someting where you could maintain a pilot diary or view cool details about the squad your in.

neural_dream
09-07-2005, 07:38 AM
You can't ask for special DID bonuses. People will then reboot their machine 1 sec before they get killed. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

In DID it's the joy you find inside that counts. Let it remain like that. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

stubby
09-07-2005, 07:41 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by neural_dream:
In DID it's the joy you find inside that counts. Let it remain like that. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

amen brotha.

jds1978
09-07-2005, 08:25 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Here's an idea and one tossed around before. Allow an exclusive 'DiD' option. 'DID' option would have pirks and bonuses not available in other modes that allow 'refly'. For example, real-time kill tally markings on your plane or a special set of nose-art. Additional plane-sets for pilot careers that wouldn't be availabe in other modes (e.g., like a ju88). Unique pilot skins. Maybe CGI cutscreens showing your pilot getting promotions/medals or possibly just stumbling into a pub after a long mission. Maybe include a virtual barracks or someting where you could maintain a pilot diary or view cool details about the squad your in. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


superb ideas!

MLudner
09-07-2005, 05:51 PM
I play Dead is dead, but I don't fly in the pregenerated campaign; I build my own. I use a table I created to generate the mission type based on whether the pilot is in the AF on the offensive or defensive and the kind of unit (Fighter or Attack) based on a D20 (20 sided dice, for those of you who are not miniature wargamers or role-playing gamers) roll with the most likely mission types in the average area with the most numbers. Id est: If you're on the offensive then escort missions will be more common than intercepts, fighter sweeps more common than CAP, et cetera. Before I build I look up who's next on the roster, then roll for his mission type.
So far I have lost 2 VVS pilots on the Southern Front in 1941:
SL Alexei Kurdanov, 12 victories, MiG-3UD
ML Ivan Petrofsky Skevar, 8.5, I-16 / LaGG-3
One USAAF pilot in my Ardennes campaign:
2Lt. Thomas Farrow, 0, P-38J

My leading ace is Oberleutnant Manfred Ludner, Staffelkapitan / 2 / I / JG51, 66 Luftsieg (64 vs VVS, 2 Spitfire Mk I's over Britain), Bf-109F4. Ludner has gone down several times, but has been lucky so far in that he made it to his own lines before bailing or bellying in. In one case he bellied-in amongst the very leading elements of the Das Reich division near Pochinok south of Smolensk after bomber defensive fire wrecked his engine.

It is very annoying when one of my guys goes down, but so-be-it. I'll be seriously annoyed if Ludner ever catches it.
I will refly a mission, though, if stupid **** happens. As an example: I built a mission for Leutnant Kurt Kessler, Luftwaffe in my Ardennes Campaign (Flying on the Moscow 1 map since the Ardennes map in the game just will not do), having rolled one of the rare and unlikely missions for a unit on the defensive: an Intruder mission. The target was the RAF base at Eindhoven. Kessler's is in a fictional shlachtgeschwader flying Bf-110G2's and Fw-190A8's; Kessler flies Bf-110's. The mission was designed to be dangerous, but not suicidal. 2 schwarme of 110's (8 ships), 1 und 3 Schwarm of 6 Staffel / SG91, are sent out on the mission; Kessler is Nummer 10, Katschmarek for the Schwarmfuhrer of 3 Schwarm. At Eindhoven the alert flight is a flight of Tempest V's. They are set to appear just as we arrive. 4 Tempests vs 8 110's is almost even odds for the 110's.
We start predawn. Nummer 4 crashes into a bridge at waypoint 2, when I take position of my leader's left-rear I look around and notice that Nummer 12 is gone. I have no idea what happened to him, no cries for help or otherwise, he's just not there. I wince, realizing that 6 vs 4 completely unbalances the mission in the favor of the Tempests. I then note that we are flying at about 285 KPH IAS. This is bad, because the timing is for 300 KPH. If the game had triggers it wouldn't be a problem, but it don't so it does. We arrive at Eindhoven, all 4 Tempests are in the air waiting for all 6 of us. It's a ruthless massacre.
I reenter the FMB and delay the Tempest's generation by 3 minutes.
Refly, assuming the early losses were an anomaly.
They weren't. Nummer 4 crashes into the same bridge, Nummer 12 goes poof! again. The timing works better; the Tempests appear when we arrive instead of before. Much better ... in theory. This time because we attacked the base 1 Schwarm ends up way in front of us after our attack. 4 Tempest V's catch-up with the 3 of us. 1 Schwarm flies on its merry way, leaving us to our fates. 3 Bf-110's vs 4 Tempest V's. Guess what happened...
2nd refly:
Repeat of the 1st.
Now I'm getting suspicious about the program. Thrice now it has shaved 2 ships from us immediately after start.
But, hoping it's still just an anomaly:
3rd Refly:
Repeat of 1st and 2nd ... except that this time I managed to cream one of the Tempests before I got creamed.

I am beginning to think I should shave the Tempest flight into a Tempest Element.
But -
4th Refly:
Alle todt ... again.

FMB: Select Tempest Flight. View Object. Switch flight to element.

5th Refly:
Much better. This time the three of us only get attacked by 2 Tempests as we slowly high-tail it away from Eindhoven. I shoot their leader off of my leader's tail, but no victory because while he was trailing thick white smoke his wingman forced me to break before I could polish him off and I did not see him go down. I am then left alone to fend-off the remaining Tempest by my heroic and exceptionally courageous AI komeraden, Nummer 9 and Nummer 11. However, I soon throw the verdammt Tempest and when he can't shake me (I could not close as he was too fast) after repeated attempts to get around on me he seems to lose stomach for the fight and flees (much to my relief!). With a sigh I hit the deck and run for my life. I run into the Tempest one more time (He had fled going east ... which was the same direction I had to go) but the result is the same and he flees again. I then sight my heroic schwarm ahead ... just in time to see 3 Spitfire IX's on CAP descend on them. I race to help, but I could not get there in time. Both 110's are downed, 2 Spits go down (1 shot down by 11 while attacking 9, the other by defensive fire from 9). I attempt to avenge them, but the result is the same as with the No. 2 Tempest and the Spit climbs away into the night after losing his stomach for the fight. I returned to base having destroyed 3 Spit IX's parked next to a taxiway at Eindhoven with 4 SC50's.

Fox_3
09-07-2005, 06:24 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by neural_dream:
Exactly. I can still only dream of the self-discipline that is needed for such streaks, but it can be done. When you die you immediately know why. You knew long before you died, when you took that stupid decision to chase that one last bomber, although you already had smoke coming off your engine. And the frightening thing is that the more you play DID the more you know you would probably do exactly the same in real life. You would go for that last bomber.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Fox_3:
Seems kind of dumb to ..... never finish the campaign/s. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
It's not the destination that counts my friend http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Ithaca

As you set out for Ithaca
hope your road is a long one,
full of adventure, full of discovery.
Laistrygonians, Cyclops,
angry Poseidon - don't be afraid of them:
you' ll never find things like that on your way
as long as you keep your thoughts raised high,
as long as a rare excitement
stirs your spirit and your body.
Laistrygonians, Cyclops,
wild Poseidon - you won't encounter them
unless you bring them along inside your soul,
unless your soul sets them up in front of you.

Hope your road is a long one.
May there be many summer mornings when,
with what pleasure, what joy,
you enter harbours you're seeing for the first time;
may you stop at Phoenician trading stations
to buy fine things,
mother of pearl and coral, amber and ebony,
sensual perfume of every kind -
as many sensual perfumes as you can;
and may you visit many Egyptian cities
to learn and go on learning from their scholars.

Keep Ithaca always in your mind.
Arriving there is what you're destined for.
But don't hurry the journey at all.
Better if it lasts for years,
so you're old by the time you reach the island,
wealthy with all you've gained on the way,
not expecting Ithaca to make you rich.

Ithaca gave you the marvelous journey.
Without her you wouldn't have set out.
She has nothing left to give you now.
And if you find her poor, Ithaca won't have fooled you.
Wise as you will have become, so full of experience,
you'll have understood by then what these Ithakas mean.

K.Kavafis </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet?.........

Sorry couldn't resist. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

Kuna15
09-07-2005, 07:03 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by stubby:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Kuna15:
I've give up because there is virtually no way that I can play 180+ missions without being captured or dead. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not true. I know of a few folks that have lived well beyond a 100 missions but it takes whole new level of self discipline to do it. I've tried a hundred times to reach 100 missions alive but have failed (two best runs was 47 missions and my current streak of 53). Each time I have failed in the past was because I did something stupid like chase a bandit down to the deck or allow him to drag me over his airfield where I got greeted by a hail of flak. It's rare that I bought it because of something entirely out of my control. I would say greed is the biggest single factor in ending a survival streak. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

What are you exactly saying? That you know someone who did not died for 180+ missions?

First just to show that I am nor greedy (I don't have too large kill tally that - isn't my goal) nor newbie (I have played hundreds of offline missions as you can see);

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b366/Kuna15/Pacific_Fighters/careers.gif

These are currently all campaigns/careers that I have played under this profile (I had played more campaigns during my FB playing than these 11).

On this pictures I have selected out only those with most missions, all are default missions on realistic settings and with all default settings (length=very long etc.)

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b366/Kuna15/Pacific_Fighters/career_finnish_f.gif

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b366/Kuna15/Pacific_Fighters/career_german_fsouth.gif

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b366/Kuna15/Pacific_Fighters/career_hungarian_f.gif

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b366/Kuna15/Pacific_Fighters/career_IJA_f.gif

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b366/Kuna15/Pacific_Fighters/career_romanian_f.gif
------------------------------------------------

Now as you can see I have A LOT of offline experience and when I said that cannot be done I stand behind it.
It can be done ONLY under experimental (testing) purposes which eliminates every kind of fun + is completely unhistorical and cheating. For example flying missions only to take off and then immediatelly land etc. And that cannot be taken into consideration.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Each time I have failed in the past was because I did something stupid like chase a bandit down to the deck or allow him to drag me over his airfield where I got greeted by a hail of flak. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

So you never did bomber escort missions? Or ground attack missions? Or for that matter even a mission over enemy territory? Because every gun that is on enemy territory will open fire on enemy aircrafts. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif What is stupid in these missions? Nothing, but every one of them will drag you over flak eventually.
That is really unwise sentence that you can only die because of your own stupidity. Just think about it again. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Now I will repeat; show me anyone who can say "I have flown 180+ campaign missions in this game and stayed alive and never captured untill the end of campaign."

If you can not do that then you shouldn't posted that in the first place. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

stubby
09-08-2005, 05:51 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Kuna15:
I've give up because there is virtually no way that I can play 180+ missions without being captured or dead. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Kuna15:
If you can not do that then you shouldn't posted that in the first place. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Dude - you don't know **** about me but to clue you in on something, just because you've never achieved such an accomplishment doesn't mean others haven't. Two folks I know personally that fly full real DiD, no cheese reflies and don't do the take-off land **** to rack up a mission tally have exceeded 100+: Scout (formally with 5./JG52) and Siggi.

So roll your eyes all you want. I'm on my 56th mission and going strong but I have nothing to prove to you because single player dead-is-dead is not a coop/online thing, it's a self challenge to replicate the feats of those that really did manage to fly the entire length of the war and live to tell about it. Just keep it real and stop acting like a pansy-***. Folks have managed to fly and survive. I could go into detail about things that can be done to substantially increase one's probability of surviving while also completing mission objections but you don't sound like the type to such take advice since you come off as being a know-it-all *****.

Kuna15
09-08-2005, 08:05 AM
If you came in here and said "I have just finished 180+ without dead or captured" or that you know someone else who did it I would believe you. You haven't did that so far. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Look above on the the number of campaign missions, these are what I had in mind:
Finish 182
German fighter South 298
Rumanian fighter 198
I like to play long campaigns and I am aware that one can fly a long time without being dead, but so far I saw noone who said that he/she has finished these alive and not captured.

You don't have to prove me anything, your word is good for me. But it obviously isn't the case on your side, considering your insults.
Good luck with campaigns. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

stubby
09-08-2005, 08:25 AM
Kuna15 - why do you keep associating me with saying anything about '180 missions'? That was from a different poster. I'm still not sure what you're about. Go back and re-read what I said because you've obviously mis-read some things. btw, it was you that started the bs basically calling me an f'in liar. folks like you is why many never post on such forums.

BSS_Goat
09-08-2005, 08:57 AM
I'm on mission number 6 now http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

No deaths http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

I beat @ss http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

neural_dream
09-08-2005, 09:57 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by stubby:
... I could go into detail about things that can be done to substantially increase one's probability of surviving while also completing mission objections ... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Please, go ahead.

Kuna15
09-08-2005, 10:02 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by stubby:
Kuna15 - why do you keep associating me with saying anything about '180 missions'? That was from a different poster. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

What different poster? Scroll up the page No2 of this thread and you'll see your answer to my "180+ mission". You said "Not true".
Just a little remainder:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by stubby:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Kuna15:
I've give up because there is virtually no way that I can play 180+ missions without being captured or dead. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not true. ... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
________________________________________________
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">btw, it was you that started the bs basically calling me an f'in liar. folks like you is why many never post on such forums. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Just show me where I started "bs" or where I called you "a liar".
And watch your language, you are far from being polite. I would appreciate if you stop swearing.

stubby
09-08-2005, 11:24 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Kuna15:

What different poster? Scroll up the page No2 of this thread and you'll see your answer to my "180+ mission". You said "Not true". </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I was addressing your absurd notion that just because you have failed to survive a 180 missions doesn't mean nobody else in the whole Il2 universe hasn't done it. Basically you were saying that if I - ace pilot Kuna15, can't survive this number of missions then there's no way on God's green earth that any other person could do it unless they cheese a mission. I gave you two examples of folks that flew beyond a 100 and lived but there's probably thousands of folks that fly offline that never post or read forums that have done it. Stop splitting hairs of words.

neural_dream
09-08-2005, 12:10 PM
Stubby, may i repeat my request please? Any tip would be more than welcome. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Kuna15
09-08-2005, 12:18 PM
@stubby, I can't really see where are you getting at. Silliness aside, you haven't offer me anything other than your opinion that it is possible to do it. Yet you personally didn't do it (I presume that you are playing this game for couple of years now considering your registering date) nor you know anyone who has done that.

I look at it this way; even if someone on God's green Earth could achieve such thing, just how many times will that be repeated?

Not to mention that to finish one 180+ campaign (regardless of settings and regardless of how many we have times we hit 'refly' button) run we need A LOT of playing hours.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Basically you were saying that if I - ace pilot Kuna15, can't survive this number of missions then there's no way on God's green earth that any other person could do it unless they cheese a mission. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Never said that I'm ace on the contrary mate... How am I an ace with so many deaths? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
I'm just a guy with opinion on matter based on my experience with the game. Never said anything against yours 'till you posted just how wrong my opinion is.

stubby
09-08-2005, 12:45 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by neural_dream:
Stubby, may i repeat my request please? Any tip would be more than welcome. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ok Neural_dream, here goes.

I can honestly say that after hundreds of DID pilots I've sent to the bone yards, it all boils down to common sense and purging the psyche of the greed. Some things to ponder if you€re crazy enough to take the DiD path. In my opinion, it's the most stressful, painful yet rewarding style of play there is.

Live to fight another day. That should be painted across your monitor.

Things will happen in a mission that will constantly force you to make decisions. Examples: Do I dive to the deck, behind enemy lines to participate in a massive furball? Do I chase a bandit over his base or a heavy flak area in order to get the all precsious kill? Do I continue on the mission even though I sustained a fuel leak or took minor damage to my control surfaces before reaching the objective? Do I follow a bandit through a massive cloud banks or pull off and climb towards the heavan and wait? Do I allow AI buddies to lead or do I? Is it worth dying in order to prevent a friendly AI from stealing my kill? Do I attempt to land a damaged plane or climb to safe altitude and bail? Do I park my plane on the *** of a bomber in order to get the easy shot?

For me and all my failures, 99% of my DID pilot KIAs boiled down to greed, lack of common sense or just plain acts of stupidity.

Some answers to the above questions that will help you survive for the long hall.

Avoid furballs on the deck, especially behind enemy lines. Don€t let the AI s foolishness be the end of you. A prime example is if I€m flying 109E4 and my AI buddies decide to give up their 2000 meter advantage to furball with I16s 500 meters off the deck, that€s a recipe for disaster. I let them go and sit tight and observe. I pick and choose engagements only when I have a far superior advantage. When you do make the run, avoid at all costs the temptation to turn, rudder, slow up in order to achieve the perfect shot. If my AI buddies buy it, it€s on them. They shouldn€t have given up their advantage and then expect me to risk my *** to save them.

Chasing bandits - sure way to get yourself killed. Many do it, including me, because I hate when my AI buddies steal my kill. If you linger on the six of a baddie for more than a few seconds, most likely you are being dragged and bagged. If you know you€re being dragged towards an enemy base/city, just let him go. Better to let him go, live and fight another day under better circumstances.

Fuel leaks or damage to your plane - RTB. I€ve attempted to complete missions with €˜minor€ fuel leaks or minor damage to control surfaces only to find out that I€ve run out of fuel many kilometers behind the lines or when it came time to dogfight, I lacked fully functioning control surfaces and ened up being easy fodder for the enemy.

Common sense - keep your bomber intercepts to slashing attacks or head ons. Know what the enemy bomber is like and avoid their fields of fire. It€s hard to give up an €˜easy€ kill like a big buff but with their sniper skills, it€s folly to make straight line attacks especially from angles where they have guns.

Some other nuggets. Avoid getting in a conga line when attacking a bad guy. I€ve died many times when I tried to nose my way into a line of 5 planes chasing the same bad guy. Just pull away and climb and watch the clowns kill each other.

Don€t get too close when going for the kill. A few bad things could happe. One - if you do score a fuel tank hit and the plane explodes, debris field can kill you. A bigger threat is the AI has a habit of scissoring into your plane and that€s all she wrote. Try to keep speed, fire from a few hundred meters out and peel away, repeat.

Most of the things are boring and most don€t find practicing extreme forms of caution in a combat sim as fun. It€s hard to explain but some of my best and most intense missions are those where not a single bullet from my guns.

stubby
09-08-2005, 12:51 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Kuna15:
@stubby, I can't really see where are you getting at. Silliness aside, you haven't offer me anything other than your opinion that it is possible to do it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

in a nutshell, you say it can't be done, i believe it can be done. true, i don't know of a single person that has done it but then again, i've not polled the some 10,000+ folks that have purchased Il2 to see somebody has. i've sent 100s of DID pilots to the grave in a painful attempt to fly four virtual years without dying and the best I can muster to date is 56 missions over the course a few months, far short from 180. i'll keep trying because I like the challenge and believe I can do it. i'm sure back in wwII nobody thought a guy could score 350 air kills yet it was done. it's all about the attitude and believing that the bridge will be there.

Kuna15
09-08-2005, 01:08 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">in a nutshell, you say it can't be done, i believe it can be done. true, i don't know of a single person that has done it but then again, i've not polled the some 10,000+ folks that have purchased Il2 to see somebody has. i've sent 100s of DID pilots to the grave in a painful attempt to fly four virtual years without dying and the best I can muster to date is 56 missions over the course a few months, far short from 180. i'll keep trying because I like the challenge and believe I can do it. i'm sure back in wwII nobody thought a guy could score 350 air kills yet it was done. it's all about the attitude and believing that the bridge will be there. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

With that I agree completely. H"ck, I would be also happy if someone can prove me wrong, to come on forum and say "folks I've did it". http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

If I may comment on your suggestions above, they have all proven true in my experience also. Greed is No1 reason for death. Either online or offline.
About type of missions ground attack are the the worst pilot killers especially on enemy airfield. I don't get those too often but I do get 'em eventually. And those are the single most dangerous missions IMHO, not so much for level bomber as for fighter (I fly fighters almost exclusively).

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Most of the things are boring and most don€t find practicing extreme forms of caution in a combat sim as fun. It€s hard to explain but some of my best and most intense missions are those where not a single bullet from my guns. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif I have a recorded .nrtk while I was flying a Rata where about 4-5 Bf-109s were attacking me continually for quite a long time. I have desperately asking help from tower and from the rest of my hammered flight, and to my joy they were eventually come to my rescue. I haven't achieved anything except for saving myself... but it was so good experience.

jds1978
09-08-2005, 04:25 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Do I park my plane on the *** of a bomber in order to get the easy shot? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, for the record, my latest campaign ended that way...sniped out of the sky by a Betty's tail gunner http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/cry.gif

i managed to rack up 21 missions and 19 kills, though

stubby
09-08-2005, 06:42 PM
Well Kuna, take everything I said about survival and optimism and throw it out the window when referencing mud moving. When I've attempted a mud moving did career, i've never made it beyond 10 missions. I guess doing it with level bombing from 20,000 feet might provide the best chances of surviving but it seems flak knows no alt limit.

Hey jds1978 - the Betty sports a 20mm cannon on the tail http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Not a good idea to go anywhere near that thing.

Zjoek
09-09-2005, 01:45 AM
I thought this was an interesting idea. So I took my existing LW career and vowed that I would discontinue if I died. In the career I had 47 kills and I could finally lead flights. Sure enough on the next mission the nasty VVS *** scissored right into me and took my wing off. Spiralling to the ground, I couldn't escape by parachute and died. GARGH!

jds1978
09-09-2005, 04:51 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Hey jds1978 - the Betty sports a 20mm cannon on the tail Not a good idea to go anywhere near that thing </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

ain't it the truth! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

"Sure enough on the next mission the nasty VVS *** scissored right into me and took my wing off. Spiralling to the ground, I couldn't escape by parachute and died. GARGH!"

...sooo, i loaded up a new campaign, and guess what? my first mission out i was involved in a nasty mid-air collision with one of those IJN float plane recon/bombers! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

i'll second that emotion...GARGH X 2!!!!!

MLudner, good post!

FF_Trozaka
09-09-2005, 10:59 AM
Great discussion!
I love DID flying, it invokes the law of averages. The better you do , the worse your odds get for completing the next mission.
Reminds me of an interview with a B-17 crewmember talking about the 25 flight tours of duty. He had said they didn't expect them to live past 25 missions, so why schedule more.

S!