PDA

View Full Version : Spitfire Mk IX



roughsleep
10-09-2005, 09:06 AM
have they got the spit MK IX with the merlin 63 or 66 in il2 or pacific fighters , the 61 apparently could opnly just equal the 190 , any comments lads .........

roughsleep
10-09-2005, 09:06 AM
have they got the spit MK IX with the merlin 63 or 66 in il2 or pacific fighters , the 61 apparently could opnly just equal the 190 , any comments lads .........

Grey_Mouser67
10-09-2005, 02:31 PM
I think the Mk IX that is in the game is a Merlin 66.

The Spitfire has a different set of combat assets than the Fw and I find the mk IX to be a fun match up with the Fw.

The thing you have to remember with the Fw is that it can't out turn a spit so don't try. The Spitfire can't out roll or out speed a Fw so don't try...

If you get jumped by a Spit in a Fw, roll and dive and fly away from them...if you get jumped by a Fw in a Spit turn and climb away once energy is close to the same.

If you fly them both to their strengths, then you will find them to be an equal match but if you fly only one way, you are surely to be dissappointed with one of them....

Also, the Spit is not a match for a Dora outside turning circle and that is marginal...whatever shot the Dora got in recent patches, it is a one pilot wrecking crew so beware of servers with Dora's....we really need a Mk XIV and Tempest with which to do battle!

ImpStarDuece
10-09-2005, 03:42 PM
The Spitfire IX flew with 4 main engine types;

Spitfire F.IX Merlin 61 around 1000 produced

Spitfire F.IX Merlin 63/63A w/ around 270 produced

Spitfire LF. IX Merlin 66 w/ around 4000 produced

Spitfire HF. IX Merlin 70 with around 400 produced

The Merlin 61 was the first 2 stage, 2 speed engine fittted to production Spitfires. It produced about 1565 Hp at 12,500 feet and 1390 at 23-24,000 feet.

The Merlin 63/63A and Merlin 66 were essentailly identical in performance terms. They were better at low altitudes, producing around 1710 hp at 8,500 feet and 1510 hp at 21,000 feet.

The Merlin 70 was a high altitude derivitave of the Merlin 66 with different blower ratios. It produced about 1710 hp at 11,000 feet and 1495 hp at 24,000 feet.


Compared to the current Merlin 66 engined Spitfires we have in game, the Merlin 61 engined variants were inferior below 20,000 feet roughtly equal between 20-24,000 feet and superior above that altitude.

The Merlin 66 adds 750-900 feet per second peak climb at low levels. It drops max level speed of 405-410 mph performance from 27,000 feet to about 22,000 feet, but keeps its top speeds through a larger band of altitudes. Merlin 66 engined variants offer an increase of about 25 mph below 14,000 feet compared to the Merlin 61. They are roughly equal between 14,000 and 16,000 feet, then the Merlin 66 is anywhere between 5 and 25 mph faster between 18,000 and 27,000 feet. Over this height the Merlin 61 Spitfire IX is about 5-10 mph faster. Merlin 61 engined Spitfires have a ceiling of about 44,000 feet, about 3,000 feet higher than the Merlin 66 engined Spitfires.

VW-IceFire
10-09-2005, 08:59 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by roughsleep:
have they got the spit MK IX with the merlin 63 or 66 in il2 or pacific fighters , the 61 apparently could opnly just equal the 190 , any comments lads ......... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
All Spitfire IX models in the game have a Merlin 66 engine except for the Spitfire HF.IXe which has a Merlin 70.

It is not that the Merlin 61 "could only just equal the FW190"...thats not the reason. The Merlin 66 and 61 are essentially the same engine.

The difference is where the second stage supercharger kicks in. The trick with the Merlin 61 was that the Spitfire IX would be faster than the FW190 at some altitudes and slightly slower than it at other altitudes. So the engineers changed the gear ratios and produced the 66. The difference was that the second stage supercharger kicks in at a lower altitude (I think its 22,000 feet rather than 26,000 feet). This gives the Spitfire IX a higher top speed than the FW190 it was compared against (I have no idea which version) at all altitudes except at very low altitude (where its really hard to see any difference either way).

Some Spitfire trivia for you.

Spitfires using the Merlin 61/63 engines are officially known as Spitfire F.IX. Those with Merlin 66 are LF.IX and those with the 70 are HF.IX. Interestingly enough, these planes were on the frontlines before the official desginations were thought up so many veterans refer to the Spitfire IX as the IX-A and IX-B. Which is not infact in reference to armament either...all Spitfire IX's were using C or E type armament.

LF also has nothing to do with clipped or non-clipped wings. A frequent error.

Spitfire nomenclature is confusing and contradictory when you first look at it.

ImpStarDuece
10-10-2005, 06:11 PM
Actually Ice, the Merlin 63 and 66 are slightly different from the Merlin 61. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif Picky, I know!

The Merlin 61 had a one-piece cylinder head/bank assembly. The Merlin 63 introduced an improved two piece assembly. They also strengthened the propellor quill shaft, which allowed for the higher boost ratings. Max Hp output for the Merlin 61 was about 1,565 hp at 15 lbs boost. Max Hp output for the 63/66 was 1720 hp at 18 lbs boost and about 2025 hp with +25lbs boost.

A +25lbs boost Spitfire IX would amost bring a tear to my eys.

SlickStick
10-10-2005, 07:12 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ImpStarDuece:
...about 2025 hp with +25lbs boost.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://img240.imageshack.us/img240/9574/homerdrooling7mq.jpg

p1ngu666
10-10-2005, 09:01 PM
25lb IX would be great till it gets on your 6 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

ploughman
10-11-2005, 02:43 AM
Well, he did say he'd think about it. Fingers crossed. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Monty_Thrud
10-11-2005, 02:25 PM
...And toes...hope we get it soon..i'm in agony...cant walk very far... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

luftluuver
10-11-2005, 02:59 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">It is not that the Merlin 61 "could only just equal the FW190"...thats not the reason. The Merlin 66 and 61 are essentially the same engine.

The difference is where the second stage supercharger kicks in. The trick with the Merlin 61 was that the Spitfire IX would be faster than the FW190 at some altitudes and slightly slower than it at other altitudes. So the engineers changed the gear ratios and produced the 66. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not just the supercharger gear ratios but also the Merlin 61 had a 0.42 prop reduction gear ratio while the Merlin 66 had a 0.477 ratio.

mynameisroland
10-12-2005, 05:20 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by roughsleep:
have they got the spit MK IX with the merlin 63 or 66 in il2 or pacific fighters , the 61 apparently could opnly just equal the 190 , any comments lads ......... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
All Spitfire IX models in the game have a Merlin 66 engine except for the Spitfire HF.IXe which has a Merlin 70.

It is not that the Merlin 61 "could only just equal the FW190"...thats not the reason. The Merlin 66 and 61 are essentially the same engine.

The difference is where the second stage supercharger kicks in. The trick with the Merlin 61 was that the Spitfire IX would be faster than the FW190 at some altitudes and slightly slower than it at other altitudes. So the engineers changed the gear ratios and produced the 66. The difference was that the second stage supercharger kicks in at a lower altitude (I think its 22,000 feet rather than 26,000 feet). This gives the Spitfire IX a higher top speed than the FW190 it was compared against (I have no idea which version) at all altitudes except at very low altitude (where its really hard to see any difference either way).

Some Spitfire trivia for you.

Spitfires using the Merlin 61/63 engines are officially known as Spitfire F.IX. Those with Merlin 66 are LF.IX and those with the 70 are HF.IX. Interestingly enough, these planes were on the frontlines before the official desginations were thought up so many veterans refer to the Spitfire IX as the IX-A and IX-B. Which is not infact in reference to armament either...all Spitfire IX's were using C or E type armament.

LF also has nothing to do with clipped or non-clipped wings. A frequent error.

Spitfire nomenclature is confusing and contradictory when you first look at it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hi IceFire,

From what I can remember the RAF captured a few examples of the Fw 190. The tests you mentioned appear to have been of the Fw 190 A3. There has been great debate as to whether this was a derated version (as mentioned by the RAF test documents) or if it was a normal version that the RAF used at a higher boost than the Germans did. The A3's speed was recorded at 389 mph - now this is fatal misestimation by the RAF as the Fw 190 A3 could achieve over 404 maybe even 410 mph. The trial between the first Spitfire IX's and the Fw 190 A3 mentions that both aircraft perform similarly at most altitudes up to 25000 ft at which point the Spit takes control. This is measured against the 389 mph speed. Now did the RAF misread the dials or was it a derated Fw 190? What I am sure of is that the Fw 190 encountered when flown by the Luftwaffe was faster at altitudes below 20000ft against any contemporary Spitfire IX. The difference may not have been huge but it was enough for the Fw 190 pilot to go in to a shallow dive and break off combat. Even the L.F versions of the Spitfire were not pumping out as much HP as the BMW 801 at lower altitudes and the wetted area of the early Fw Antons was low so in a straight out speed contest the Fw was faster.

I still think that the Speed difference in game is pretty accurate below 5000m and that the match up we have is pretty good. A well flown Fw is a tough target for a Spitfire IX and vice versa.As mouser put it the Fw 190 and Spitfire require two totally different styles ~ something which we both know too http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

p1ngu666
10-12-2005, 04:03 PM
up high the high wingloadin, average supercharging would mean the 190 was in trouble

iirec the russian planes achive best speeds at resonable alts, BUT there not good in combat up high
2k or so is where the yak starts to be worse.

imo if 190 was equal speed with spit for example, then the spit would probably win..

VW-IceFire
10-12-2005, 04:53 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ImpStarDuece:
Actually Ice, the Merlin 63 and 66 are slightly different from the Merlin 61. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif Picky, I know!

The Merlin 61 had a one-piece cylinder head/bank assembly. The Merlin 63 introduced an improved two piece assembly. They also strengthened the propellor quill shaft, which allowed for the higher boost ratings. Max Hp output for the Merlin 61 was about 1,565 hp at 15 lbs boost. Max Hp output for the 63/66 was 1720 hp at 18 lbs boost and about 2025 hp with +25lbs boost.

A +25lbs boost Spitfire IX would amost bring a tear to my eys. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
For the sake of argument and the point of detail...yes you're being picky http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

And yes...a +25lb boost Spitfire would be a nice little force equalizer http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

VW-IceFire
10-12-2005, 04:56 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mynameisroland:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by roughsleep:
have they got the spit MK IX with the merlin 63 or 66 in il2 or pacific fighters , the 61 apparently could opnly just equal the 190 , any comments lads ......... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
All Spitfire IX models in the game have a Merlin 66 engine except for the Spitfire HF.IXe which has a Merlin 70.

It is not that the Merlin 61 "could only just equal the FW190"...thats not the reason. The Merlin 66 and 61 are essentially the same engine.

The difference is where the second stage supercharger kicks in. The trick with the Merlin 61 was that the Spitfire IX would be faster than the FW190 at some altitudes and slightly slower than it at other altitudes. So the engineers changed the gear ratios and produced the 66. The difference was that the second stage supercharger kicks in at a lower altitude (I think its 22,000 feet rather than 26,000 feet). This gives the Spitfire IX a higher top speed than the FW190 it was compared against (I have no idea which version) at all altitudes except at very low altitude (where its really hard to see any difference either way).

Some Spitfire trivia for you.

Spitfires using the Merlin 61/63 engines are officially known as Spitfire F.IX. Those with Merlin 66 are LF.IX and those with the 70 are HF.IX. Interestingly enough, these planes were on the frontlines before the official desginations were thought up so many veterans refer to the Spitfire IX as the IX-A and IX-B. Which is not infact in reference to armament either...all Spitfire IX's were using C or E type armament.

LF also has nothing to do with clipped or non-clipped wings. A frequent error.

Spitfire nomenclature is confusing and contradictory when you first look at it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hi IceFire,

From what I can remember the RAF captured a few examples of the Fw 190. The tests you mentioned appear to have been of the Fw 190 A3. There has been great debate as to whether this was a derated version (as mentioned by the RAF test documents) or if it was a normal version that the RAF used at a higher boost than the Germans did. The A3's speed was recorded at 389 mph - now this is fatal misestimation by the RAF as the Fw 190 A3 could achieve over 404 maybe even 410 mph. The trial between the first Spitfire IX's and the Fw 190 A3 mentions that both aircraft perform similarly at most altitudes up to 25000 ft at which point the Spit takes control. This is measured against the 389 mph speed. Now did the RAF misread the dials or was it a derated Fw 190? What I am sure of is that the Fw 190 encountered when flown by the Luftwaffe was faster at altitudes below 20000ft against any contemporary Spitfire IX. The difference may not have been huge but it was enough for the Fw 190 pilot to go in to a shallow dive and break off combat. Even the L.F versions of the Spitfire were not pumping out as much HP as the BMW 801 at lower altitudes and the wetted area of the early Fw Antons was low so in a straight out speed contest the Fw was faster.

I still think that the Speed difference in game is pretty accurate below 5000m and that the match up we have is pretty good. A well flown Fw is a tough target for a Spitfire IX and vice versa.As mouser put it the Fw 190 and Spitfire require two totally different styles ~ something which we both know too http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yes this is a good point. I think what we end up with is, as you say, the FW190 performing slightly better below 20,000ft and the Spitfire better above. The end result is that the FW190A's and Spitfire IX perform with similar performance in terms of speed right across the board.

The FW190 advantage at lower alts is definately the acceleration.

Fighting styles is definately where its at. Anyones game with proper tactics and teamwork.