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LEBillfish
02-01-2008, 08:54 AM
Hi All;

Going to quit being lazy and order some new/more ram today, past that however I'm not looking to do a major upgrade till BoB/other. However, I have two so-so items in my PC that I'm considering upgrading one and or the other, and would like some quick input as to whether you feel it would even be worth my while.

The first I'm considering is a Vid Card...It must be AGP as I have no interest in upgrading the MoBo, and currently have this "MSI NX6600-VTD256 (256MB of the slower ram vs. 128 of the faster DDR)........What I'm considering is here http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814133176 ...............Think I'll see enough of difference (considering I'll still be using a 19" CRT at 1024x768) to make it worth it?

Second possible......Currently am using a basic Creative Audigy SE (Audigy 1) sound card.....Sounds seem fine to me and will be using a headset (logitech's) so my question pertains to sim performance....Would I see an improvement in "playability" going with a different one?....If so, what?

Thanks,

K2

LEBillfish
02-01-2008, 08:54 AM
Hi All;

Going to quit being lazy and order some new/more ram today, past that however I'm not looking to do a major upgrade till BoB/other. However, I have two so-so items in my PC that I'm considering upgrading one and or the other, and would like some quick input as to whether you feel it would even be worth my while.

The first I'm considering is a Vid Card...It must be AGP as I have no interest in upgrading the MoBo, and currently have this "MSI NX6600-VTD256 (256MB of the slower ram vs. 128 of the faster DDR)........What I'm considering is here http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814133176 ...............Think I'll see enough of difference (considering I'll still be using a 19" CRT at 1024x768) to make it worth it?

Second possible......Currently am using a basic Creative Audigy SE (Audigy 1) sound card.....Sounds seem fine to me and will be using a headset (logitech's) so my question pertains to sim performance....Would I see an improvement in "playability" going with a different one?....If so, what?

Thanks,

K2

VW-IceFire
02-01-2008, 09:00 AM
I'd say, given the situation, forget about the sound card as you won't notice a significant difference. You may not notice any difference at all actually...so maybe best to stick with what works in that case.

The 7600GS is not a good buy as a replacement for the 6600 you already have. If you're going to upgrade the video card something like the X1950Pro which is well regarded as being a good performer for the price may be the better option (it comes in AGP as well) and the pricing should be similar.

Remember, when switching video cards you should always purge the system of any old video drivers that may be left over before installing the new card. Regardless of nVidia to ATI or nVidia to nVidia this is always a good idea for best performance.

Xiolablu3
02-01-2008, 09:02 AM
Try and get yourself a 7900GS or X1950 instead, my 7900GS was 60, which is about $120, about 2 months ago, so they should be even cheaper now.

The 7600GT is a 'mid-range' card where as the 7900GS is much more top end of the 7XXX series, and should be about the same price, or even less. The X1950 is about the ATI equivalent of the 7900 Nvidia.


Keep your current soundcard.

buzzsaw1939
02-01-2008, 09:19 AM
Leb... I'm pretty much in the same boat, AGP, I'm ordering a HIS Radeon x1650gt from Newegg, it's got pretty good reviews, check it out!

SeaFireLIV
02-01-2008, 09:41 AM
AS for soundcard, Audigy is nice (I used to have one), but if you can go for an XFI. The XFI will actually improve your frame rate slightly over the audigy.

PF_Coastie
02-01-2008, 10:20 AM
Billfish,

What is you CPU? This will make a difference in my suggestion for you. If it is a weak CPU, you may be bottlenecked with a better GPU.

If it is a good CPU, I agree with the 1950pro.

WOLFMondo
02-01-2008, 10:27 AM
If you can get one the ATI X1950Pro AGP is probably the best AGP card you can get right now. This card beats the 7900GS in almost all bench marks.

LEBillfish
02-01-2008, 10:34 AM
What about the open GL issue or whatever it was....Thought Nvidia was the card of choice in the sim for a reason????

CPU is an Intel pentium4 2.54Ghz, 533fsb, sitting on an Intel board

Also....am not seeing X1950 in "AGP"

Urufu_Shinjiro
02-01-2008, 10:36 AM
Well, nvidia does render opengl a little faster than ati, but the image quality of ati is better, so it balances out.

LEBillfish
02-01-2008, 10:44 AM
Ok, well since I think some may have missed the AGP part, most of the suggested cards PCI-E or whatever it is.....and in that the sound will not make a "significant change"......Guess it simply means more beer for me getting just ram.

Will wait about an hour for any late input though.

Thanks for the help guys.

DrHerb
02-01-2008, 10:47 AM
Sapphire X1950 Pro (http://www.sapphiretech.com/us/products/products_overview.php?gpid=168&grp=2)

They make one, its a good place to start

I have that card and I love it

-HH-Quazi
02-01-2008, 10:49 AM
If you are using omboard sound, a vanilla Audigy 2 Value will definitley help in the fr performance as your cpu will no longer have to render in game souns. This frees up those cycles to run the game. Made a big difference for me back in the day when I was running a Dell Dimension 4550 with a P4 2.4GHz 533FSB cpu. I picked up 8 fps across the board in all missions.

Urufu_Shinjiro
02-01-2008, 11:03 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LEBillfish:
Ok, well since I think some may have missed the AGP part, most of the suggested cards PCI-E or whatever it is.....and in that the sound will not make a "significant change"......Guess it simply means more beer for me getting just ram.

Will wait about an hour for any late input though.

Thanks for the help guys. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The 1950 pro and the 7900gs both come in AGP.

polak5
02-01-2008, 11:05 AM
Little past the hr.. but u might still read this http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
If pretty much the only game that you are waiting for is BOB id wait and upgrade your card when it comes out.
I recently upgraded another 2 gigs of ram instead of getting a vid card. The game is much smother and now when i record it does not skip, and my fps is much better.
Soo I mean if your pretty much in the same boat as me, that is waiting for BOB, id just wait little longer.

EDIT: BTW im using a 6800gs PCIe

LEBillfish
02-01-2008, 11:09 AM
Well, going to buy at NewEgg for ease, and none of the cards suggested are there, and I'm assuming they'd start being a bit more then the 150 I'm willing to spend for a "temp-card"....In kind having a sound card....Though low end if I'll see minimal improvement then just going with the ram (from currently 1 up to 2gig all the MB will take)...

So thanks for your help, I'll drink an extra beer in money saved for each of you...It's good to be a non-productive member of society http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Chris0382
02-01-2008, 11:15 AM
This 7600GT is the only AGP Pro I can see on New Egg worthy of playing the game,

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130099

Xiolablu3
02-01-2008, 11:43 AM
Yeah, actually, just looking at prices in the US on ebay for the 7900GS AGP and they are $300 (!).

Mine was PCI-E which is ironically far cheaper at 60 GBP = just over $120.


The 7600GT is still apretty good card, but Im not sure about the benefit from a 6600, is yours a 6600GT? If its a plain 6600 then you will probably see a good benefit.

See the benefit here vs all other cards :-

6600GT and 7600GT in blue...

http://www23.tomshardware.com/graphics_2007.html?modelx...model2=716&chart=318 (http://www23.tomshardware.com/graphics_2007.html?modelx=33&model1=722&model2=716&chart=318)

If yours is a non-GT 6600 then the difference is quite a lot bigger as the GT version was much faster than the 'vanilla' 6600.

DrHerb
02-01-2008, 11:52 AM
Actually its looking like the AGP X1950 Pro is getting harder and harder to find http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

Worf101
02-01-2008, 11:53 AM
Hey Billfish:

Most company's have stopped production of the 1950 Pro AGP card but I managed to score one. It's great. However if you can't get a hold of it, get the 2600Pro instead. Good card, not that much more expensive and it'll do you right.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814161209

Da Worfster

TheFamilyMan
02-01-2008, 12:05 PM
Here's (http://www.tomshardware.com/2008/01/03/the_best_gaming_graphics/page6.html) a table that may be useful. It's at the end of a roll-up review of what Tom's Hardware considers that the best buys currently available. Check it out if you hadn't already.

Xiolablu3
02-01-2008, 12:05 PM
Just as the 7900GS and X1950Pro are almost identical in avergae benchmarks, so are the 7600GT and the 2600 Worf mentions.

(See the link in my post above)

Its really comes down to which you can get cheapest.

VW-IceFire
02-01-2008, 12:22 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LEBillfish:
What about the open GL issue or whatever it was....Thought Nvidia was the card of choice in the sim for a reason????

CPU is an Intel pentium4 2.54Ghz, 533fsb, sitting on an Intel board

Also....am not seeing X1950 in "AGP" </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
They are around...haven't gone specifically looking for them but for a while the X1950Pro in AGP form was the best AGP card available. A few have come out since.

As for the nVidia/ATI OpenGL debate...I've had both nVidia and ATI cards and seen very little difference in performance one to another. Maybe its changed in the very last round although I doubt it. ATI's OpenGL implementation is a bit slower here and there but the overall image quality is higher. For the nVidia card to look like the ATI card (turn up very high quality texture filtering basically) its actually slower on my own systems. The nVidia is a bit more flexible but the rest doesn't hold water with me.

Thats my own opinion so feel free to do research on the issue but I think its not very credible.

Xiolablu3
02-01-2008, 12:34 PM
I totally agree with Icefire, both makes of card are as good as each other.

Just get the fastest card you can, from either make, for the cheapest price.

Forget about ATI vs Nvidia. I have been happy with every card I have bought EXCEPT ONE which was a Nvidia 5900 Ultra. Claiming shader 2.0 support when it cannot actually play ANY games fast enough in PS 2.0 is a downright con. Trying to play Shder 2.0 games on it was a slideshow.

my history of 3d cards, I have been extremely happy with every single one apart from the one thats marked...

ATI Rage Pro
Geforce 2 MX
ATI Radeon 8500
Geforce TI4600
Geforce 5900 Ultra (Sh*te card)
ATI X800 Pro
Geforce 7900GS (today)



I must say that I definitely prefer the ATI drivers and utilities to the Nvidia ones at present. It was a real disappointment when I had to lose the ATI drivers to put in my 7900GS. CHanging GAMMA and Brightness etc from within games was a doddle with my ATI card. It sucks bad with my Nvidia at present.

I could get the gamma as bright as I wanted it with the ATI drivers, right up to the screen being bright white, simply by using a hotkey while playing the game. I have had real problems on my dark monitor with the Nvidia drivers.

Also with ATI cards, I dont know why, but it feels more like I have a quality product, whereas with Nvidia, they seem to me to be all out for performance. Just my feelings, its n ot a strong enough feeling to make me buy a slower card, just to get ATI however.

PF_Coastie
02-01-2008, 04:16 PM
All of you are ignoring the fact that she has a relatively slow CPU. She would be severely bottlenecked with anything more than what she has IMHO.

I think you are doing the right thing with the ram Billfish.

Have a beer for me next time you say: "hooked up"!

Wtornado_439th
02-01-2008, 04:23 PM
Just wondering about this I have a P4 2.8
with a GF-7800GS OC and since the 4.09bm
patch I have tried every setup possible
and have a poor frame rate even at medium
settings.With the 4.08m I had no trouble at
all.

Anyone else?

potpie69
02-01-2008, 04:34 PM
Well I have a Nvidia 7800 GSOC 256m, had it for a year and it works great on all my games. Looked for it on newegg but couldn't find it. Worth the price I paid.

Stiletto-
02-01-2008, 04:56 PM
Just ordered a ATI 3870X2 off of newegg on tuesday, I am so pumped! Best card out there for the price, and arguably the best card out there period. If it doesn't come today it will come on monday! I Can't wait that long though! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/bigtears.gif Upgrading my whole system as well, but I have a AGP Nvidea 7800gs that has MAJOR compatability problems with my motherboard chipset.. It seems as if they port the PCI-E cards over to AGP without really taking the time and effort to see if they run smoothly.

I guess once a certain format gets popular, you might as well jump to it next time you need to upgrade, or feel the neglect for older technology! Had an ATI 9800pro before my 7800gs, and I am happy to be going back to ATI, Nvidea has lost a customer... Sorry for getting a little off the main topic, but I am like a kid waiting for christmas day here.. Hopefully BoB will come out sometime before this 450 dollar card becomes a total dog.

MrBunnies
02-01-2008, 05:57 PM
Eat crow until you cannot stand the chop anymore. You are throwing your money away on pcie prices for a half the bandwidth card. When you get stuck look to sell your system intact and start fresh or invest in a new motherboard,cpu, mem, and card.2gigs of corsair xms ddr2 800 is 30 dollars after rebate via newegg. You can offset the cost easily by parting out our system on ebay. You will get twice the system for close to the same price. I build systems and it drives me up the wall seeing people throw their money away. x1950gt 512 cards in pcie are a hundred dollars and eat agp's lunch. only real out of pocket is power supply but it will be worth it.

Xiolablu3
02-02-2008, 06:40 AM
There really wont be any benefit from a PCI-E card over AGP on her system.

LEBillfish
02-02-2008, 12:35 PM
The ONLY way you can go with a PCI-E card on an AGP system is to buy the cards, new CPU, new MB, new ram, possibly even new HD's or it a pain to use the old, new PS possibly....Etc.. IOW, a new PC sans case........So I think we've just left the realm of economical a tad http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Went with just the ram......All the big improvements to come as said once BoB or the like is out as for the most part...The system runs just fine for IL2, ram I think the weakest link at 1gig vs. 2.

AGP as I expected is long gone, anything you find simply surplus (and AGP mb's are not PCIe). What I was however wondering was if that particular card would show enough improvement to justify $140.00......Since not, I'll call that $140 TIR/Books/Beer/Pron/firestarter whatever instead of wasting it to basically get what I got.

Thanks for all your help.

K2

Wtornado_439th
02-02-2008, 06:00 PM
I have an AGP system with a P4-2.8 and a GF-7800
GS OC 256m and 1 gig of mem and she is pretty well at the end of the line when it comes to DX-9 games.I have to go duel core 3.5 or 4 with a
GF-8800 card too BF.She was a good rig last year but this year she is having a hard time with all the new games.

Bearcat99
02-02-2008, 06:10 PM
K2 consider this on the bay (http://cgi.ebay.com/ATI-Radeon-x1950-PRO-512MB-AGP-X1950PRO-VISTA-1950-NEW_W0QQitemZ230219007305QQihZ013QQcategoryZ3762QQ rdZ1QQssPageNameZWD2VQQcmdZViewItem?_trksid=p1638. m122).. a X1950 Pro for $159 + $20 for shipping to the U.S. I am seriously considering that myself as I have a 939 mobo and dont want to spend too much more money until a year or so..

I was thinking of upgrading to a PCIE mobo and getting a PCIE card.. but I have been seeing the PCIE 939 mobos that I can find going for ridiculous prices... and I am hesitant to spend the bread.