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OD_79
08-29-2006, 07:06 AM
~S~
Just thought I would ask this while I got the chance. Will IL2 still work with the new Windows, which is supposed to be out next year?

Only asking as I was thinking of building a new system from scratch and thought I might as well get the new Windows. I suppose the same question goes for BoB as well.
Cheers,

OD.

OD_79
08-29-2006, 07:06 AM
~S~
Just thought I would ask this while I got the chance. Will IL2 still work with the new Windows, which is supposed to be out next year?

Only asking as I was thinking of building a new system from scratch and thought I might as well get the new Windows. I suppose the same question goes for BoB as well.
Cheers,

OD.

FoolTrottel
08-29-2006, 07:19 AM
It does run.
On the Vista Beta that is.
Performance is quite poor though, mainly 'cos video drivers aren't available yet.
Haven't tried any tweaking though...
(P4 2.4ghz, 1Gb, ATI 9800Pro)

OD_79
08-29-2006, 07:44 AM
Thanks,
I was hoping it would, am I right in recalling that it doesn't use Open GL as well though? In which case it will look different anyway, as it would be run in DirectX, but would it be DirectX 10?

OD.

LEXX_Luthor
08-29-2006, 08:08 AM
If you want the "gaming" Vista version, it could be 400 dollars or more.

Microsoft Leaks Vista Pricing
Canadian gaffe reveals all

~> http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=33996


If an "open" sim comes to Linux, no matter how primitive to start with, that's where I'm going. From my reading, flight simmers in the 1980s got as much enjoyment out of their sims, at the time, as "modern" flight simmers today, and possibly more, without all the Anger and Frustration on teh modern internet flight sim webboards. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

OD_79
08-29-2006, 08:15 AM
Going to be one of the most expensive parts then! Hope it is worth it, might just stick with XP and upgrade when it has been tried and tested all over.
Cheers,

OD.

-HH-Quazi
08-29-2006, 08:40 AM
Eh, if that is the case, I hope BoB will run on XP so I can tell Uncle Billy to stuff it.

Urufu_Shinjiro
08-29-2006, 08:52 AM
First off, the inquirer is not the most reliable source on the internet. Second, OD_79, they have since resolved the open_gl issue and it will run just fine on vista. And LEXX, since when is "ultimate edition" required for gaming?

crazyivan1970
08-29-2006, 09:17 AM
More likely it will support Vista. Vista is not going to be 400 bucks. mid 200`s. Which is not cheap either. Personally i am pretty happy with XP64 PRO. Runs excellent. Not sure if i`ll jump on Vista right away. I dont like the fact that it will be too strict. Limited tweaking abilities and certification of everything that goes on teh OS software wise.

Waldo.Pepper
08-29-2006, 09:20 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">If you want the "gaming" Vista version, it could be 400 dollars or more. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

What a COLOSSAL waste of money. Nothing MS could make would be worth that!

slipBall
08-29-2006, 01:10 PM
I plan to stay with my xp pro, till they no longer support it, or longer. Vista was planned for 2003, I think Gates likes to keep the money flowing, with a new os every couple years. I think its a ripoff to the millions that are forced to use his os

Willey
08-29-2006, 01:51 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FoolTrottel:
It does run.
On the Vista Beta that is.
Performance is quite poor though, mainly 'cos video drivers aren't available yet.
Haven't tried any tweaking though...
(P4 2.4ghz, 1Gb, ATI 9800Pro) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

There's a Vista Catalyst... but it doesn't work with my X1800XT http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif
Neither does the Vista X-Fi driver... both 64bit versions...

Willey
08-29-2006, 01:54 PM
I think Home Premium will be enough for most users... that's some 200 bucks. IIRC, XP was a bit more expensive, when it was released.

VW-IceFire
08-29-2006, 03:09 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by OD_79:
Thanks,
I was hoping it would, am I right in recalling that it doesn't use Open GL as well though? In which case it will look different anyway, as it would be run in DirectX, but would it be DirectX 10?

OD. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
It'll likely run much better in the final form. Most peoples experiences in general are from Beta 2 which was a steaming pile of slow **** (who knew). Apparently they have made huge strides...people who were deriding the performance before are quite pleased now. SO I hold out some hope for a very good final version. I would give it a few months to see how the dust is settling before jumping in whole hog.

The OpenGL thing is a non issue. Windows Vista will now (recently announced) support upto OpenGL 2.0 (whichs is awesome) inside of the graphics framework. Either way...the video drivers can run OpenGL outside of their framework so it doesn't matter. Basically Microsoft had to cave into this...OpenGL is too important professionally and for some of the top game engines for them to try and cut it out of the marketplace (they'd love to - but they'd be stupid to actually go ahead and do it).

As far as DirectX goes...there are two versions. DirectX9 (modified form) in Vista for compatibility and DirectX 10 as native. It'll be a while before you see a card that can properly take advantage of DirectX 10 or a game that actually uses it.

I'm probably going to build a system in the new year (I assume thats when your building yours) so it'll be about the same sort of ride when we get there. I'm waiting just a bit to see how the chips fall and what things become issues and what things get sorted out.

mazexx
08-29-2006, 03:51 PM
I just tried IL2 on the latest Vista Business 32bit Pre-RC1 (build 5536) and it works really nice using the standard MS driver for my X800Pro (Direct X and not Open GL as ATI works better on Dx as far as I know). I could not feel any performance degradation but it's not based on actual FPS but the general feeling...

My Sidewinder FF2 is detected automatically by Vista but the FF effects does not work in IL2... That's the only gripe I have with it right now... Have to fiddle a bit with that.

/Mazex

-HH-Quazi
08-30-2006, 01:16 AM
I've still yet to give the 64-bit version of XP a try. It hasn't been out for that long has it? I am not really interested in Vista, especially if BoB runs fine with either the 32 or 64-bit XP OS's.

Manu-6S
08-30-2006, 07:39 AM
Oleg should sell a version of BOB for Linux; using OpenGL he can do it.

daFat1
08-30-2006, 08:15 AM
I just yesterday happened to download the Vista Ultimate edition RC1, which is more or less final!
I downloaded the ATI-driver for vista and installed it too!

PF runs like **** on it, so I cannot really say lets go for it. Seems we have to wait a Looong time to make the switch!

A64 3800 X2 on ASUS nForce4ultra, radeon x850xt, 1GB ram

Cheers

mazexx
08-30-2006, 11:53 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by daFat1:
I just yesterday happened to download the Vista Ultimate edition RC1, which is more or less final!
I downloaded the ATI-driver for vista and installed it too!

PF runs like **** on it, so I cannot really say lets go for it. Seems we have to wait a Looong time to make the switch!

A64 3800 X2 on ASUS nForce4ultra, radeon x850xt, 1GB ram

Cheers </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I guess you're talking about build 5536 just as I do? Obseve that it's not RC1, it's Pre-RC1 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif Did you try it with the M$ driver? It runs just fine on my system at least accept the non functional FF (XP3000+ 32bit, 1Gb ram, X800Pro, A7N8XDL Mb).

Are you running OpenGl or Direct X? OpenGL is really slow on Vista due to low level architecture issues...

/Mazex

jamesdietz
08-30-2006, 12:00 PM
I can add something to this post...I have been told by a very high source at Microsoft that WINDOWS VISTA will be out for business use this Fall, but not released to the general public until January of '07 AND not to buy a new PC until then..definately not buy.... a new PC until VISTA is in general release.Soooooooooooooooo you if can put 2 & 2 together ,this means that even if Oleg gets BoB released this year (somewhat doubtful I think you'd agree,) no one will be able to buy ( or better put: SHOULD NOT buy...) a new Super- hyper- ptooey (technical term for top of the line..) PC to run it properly until the new year....

NerdConnected
08-30-2006, 02:10 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by OD_79:
~S~
Just thought I would ask this while I got the chance. Will IL2 still work with the new Windows, which is supposed to be out next year?

Only asking as I was thinking of building a new system from scratch and thought I might as well get the new Windows. I suppose the same question goes for BoB as well.
Cheers,

OD. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Just installed it, still the beta2 X64 version, and tried to run Il2. Using the latest Nvidia (includes OpenGL) drivers, but fps are pretty bad.....

The X-fi beta drivers also work. Initially had some problems with X-fi, but reinstalled them manually from the unpacked archive and they seem to work ;-)

However, in its current - still beta - state I would not use Vista for gaming. It uses absurd amounts of memory for itself and only swtiching off the many services improves this situation. (it has no hardware profiles I'm aware off)

I also switched off all of the task manager jobs, but that did'nt help much either. Then the usual Nvidia tweaking, but still no acceptable fps.

Of course drivers are beta, and so is the OS, but still. I hope MS dramatically improves the performance of Vista and I hear Pre-RC1 is better, but I still have my doubts about this new consumer OS, because it's very, very bloated

You're definately going to need 2 Gb RAM (minimal) and a fast, preferably dual core cpu if you want to run some nice games on Vista.

Mark

VW-IceFire
08-30-2006, 04:12 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by daFat1:
I just yesterday happened to download the Vista Ultimate edition RC1, which is more or less final!
I downloaded the ATI-driver for vista and installed it too!

PF runs like **** on it, so I cannot really say lets go for it. Seems we have to wait a Looong time to make the switch!

A64 3800 X2 on ASUS nForce4ultra, radeon x850xt, 1GB ram

Cheers </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Thats pre-RC1. So its not RC1...and RC1 may or may not be the last test prior to heading off for duplication.

Also note that if you (or anyone else) is running the 64bit version. Its not going to be a good experience for a while yet. Even after Vista comes out...32bit I think will be standard for another 4 or 5 years before we can truly ditch it for 64.

Evil.Merlin
08-30-2006, 04:36 PM
IL2 and all it's add-ons work fine under Vista.
Performance is BETTER than XP.

With one major caviat. Run IL2 in Direct3D mode. OpenGL (at least on the Radeon X1900) runs SLOW. DirectX it runs smooth as silk.

PS: Build 5536 is far from final. Its also now far from what will be true RC1 (we are looking at 5545 or possibly 5550 for the true RC1). RC1 has MOST of the stuff that will be in production Vista, but its not all there yet, and all the performance isnt there yet. So stay tuned!

Manu-6S
08-30-2006, 04:53 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Evil.Merlin:
Run IL2 in Direct3D mode. OpenGL (at least on the Radeon X1900) runs SLOW. DirectX it runs smooth as silk. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I wonder why... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/halo.gif

OD_79
08-31-2006, 05:07 AM
Sorry not had internet connection for a few days. I will be building my new system next year. Could do it now but it doesn't seem like the right time.
I am thinking of waiting for the new Nvidia 8000 series cards, also waiting to see if the prices come down on the new Intel chips - think I was looking at the E6600. I don't need a new system to run IL2 really, but other things could be improved really.
At the moment I am running:

AMD64 3200+
Nvidia 7800GT
Audigy 2ZS
1 Gig RAM

IL2 runs with absolutely no problems, (well exceot for a black circle on the water since I upgraded graphics drivers!). I am thinking of the future though (BoB obviously). But I was also going to be sticking with IL2 for a while, in all probability, so if it did not work with the new OS then I would keep my current PC for IL2 and work and stuff - built an extreme gaming machine for BoB etc! I'm saving up at the moment, finally started a proper full time job and been paid! Wohoo!
Cheers for the responses guys,

OD.

Evil.Merlin
08-31-2006, 07:52 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Manu-6S:
I wonder why... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/halo.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually OpenGL support is Native in Windows Vista, however the OEM's need to write the drivers, else Vista falls back on DirectX translation mode for OpenGL.

NonWonderDog
08-31-2006, 08:02 AM
Latest news is still that native OpenGL support will not ship with Vista, whether drivers are written or not.

If drivers are written, and they certainly will be, they will be available for download from Windows Update. This will add native OpenGL support to Windows Vista.

Kinda stupid.

Lemky
08-31-2006, 08:54 PM
What happened to Windows Longhorn

VW-IceFire
08-31-2006, 09:00 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Lemky:
What happened to Windows Longhorn </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Longhorn was always a codename...just as Blackcomb and some of the others have been.

OpenGL will come with the video drivers. As those tend to be undeveloped so far in Vista (working on it but not there yet) I think we'll see great strides in this later on.

Evil.Merlin
08-31-2006, 09:58 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by NonWonderDog:
Latest news is still that native OpenGL support will not ship with Vista, whether drivers are written or not.

If drivers are written, and they certainly will be, they will be available for download from Windows Update. This will add native OpenGL support to Windows Vista.

Kinda stupid. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Native OpenGL support WILL ship with Vista. But its up to the OEM's as I stated to write the hardware drivers.

Microsoft is actually supporting THREE OpenGL paths.

Legacy ICD's like Windows XP
MS OpenGL translation via Direct3D
and now Windows Vista ICD which is direct access to the video card GPU and buffering via OpenGL.

IvanoBulo
09-01-2006, 12:57 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Manu-6S:
Oleg should sell a version of BOB for Linux; using OpenGL he can do it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I would like this too because Vista will also needs:
1. Firewall
2. Antivirus

h.e. +100$ minimum...

Ah, forgot about RAM... is there are 2x2Gb memory kits on the market to feed this monster?.. (rithorical question http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif)

I would rather pay 3xPrice for BOB which will run on Linux... This would be cheaper...

Evil.Merlin
09-01-2006, 11:56 PM
Windows XP has a built in firewall... as does Vista.

Microsoft cannot package a OOTB Antivirus due to whiney companies that cannot make good enough products to sell enough of them to stay in business. That being said Microsoft does offer OneCare which is one of the better anti malware packages out there.

ANY operating system needs a decent anti-malware application. The ONLY reason there are not more Mac and Linux malware out and about because between the two of them its about a 6% marketshare, and malware writers only care about one thing... number of systems hit.

Comments about RAM are just plain simple mindedness. To get Linux running well, with KDE or GNOME and the basics to bring it to the level of usablity Windows XP provides requires the same amount of RAM...

Games on linux is just dumb. Why spend the money on less than 3% of the installed desktop market, not to mention the fact that Linux uses typically never want to pay for a darn thing. To them everythign should be free, like IL-2 and what not. Its a proven fact that the majority of Linux users will not pay for retail software as 1.) it costs money 2.) its closed source.



<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by IvanoBulo:
I would like this too because Vista will also needs:
1. Firewall
2. Antivirus

h.e. +100$ minimum...

Ah, forgot about RAM... is there are 2x2Gb memory kits on the market to feed this monster?.. (rithorical question http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif)

I would rather pay 3xPrice for BOB which will run on Linux... This would be cheaper... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

mortoma1958
09-02-2006, 10:52 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by slipBall:
I plan to stay with my xp pro, till they no longer support it, or longer. Vista was planned for 2003, I think Gates likes to keep the money flowing, with a new os every couple years. I think its a ripoff to the millions that are forced to use his os </div></BLOCKQUOTE>I'm still using Win98SE and they haven't supported it for the longest time. I have two HDs with Win98, one for gaming, the other for internet. I have relatively few problems with Win98. It's starting to show it's age but it runs the IL2/FB/AEP/PF series great!! Just limited to 1GB ram is all. I had an install of XP about 2004 but don't use it anymore because I gave the disc to my brother and we couldn't both be registered/activated for the same OS.

WWSensei
09-03-2006, 05:42 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Microsoft cannot package a OOTB Antivirus due to whiney companies that cannot make good enough products to sell enough of them to stay in business. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Cute, and appears like a good, traditional competitive argument, but not the case. M$ was prevented from bundling it directly because it was a direct conflict of interest scenario. Buy or get their AV to protect you against security holes they introduce into their products? It's like hiring a security guard from the same company that botched the install of your alarm system. Or, as more likely the case in legal terms--extortion. "Pay me to protect your system or I open this vulnerability to the world."

As for firewalls, Vista's is better than XPs (which wasn't really a firewall of any worth) and if they double its capabilities they might be as good as any of the other firewalls from 5 years ago. But they have money and resources so they will catch up eventually.

You are correct about Linux. It's too small a market share to make large scale investment for a home user worthwhile and a majority of the Linux user base is not known for revenue generating.

It's growing in popularity on the Enterprise side of things mainly because IBM is pushing and supporting it. Of course, they make billions on OS400 and AIX and have for years and I doubt many people have an AS400 or AIX box at home.

Evil.Merlin
09-04-2006, 07:06 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by WWSensei:
Cute, and appears like a good, traditional competitive argument, but not the case. M$ was prevented from bundling it directly because it was a direct conflict of interest scenario. Buy or get their AV to protect you against security holes they introduce into their products? It's like hiring a security guard from the same company that botched the install of your alarm system. Or, as more likely the case in legal terms--extortion. "Pay me to protect your system or I open this vulnerability to the world."

As for firewalls, Vista's is better than XPs (which wasn't really a firewall of any worth) and if they double its capabilities they might be as good as any of the other firewalls from 5 years ago. But they have money and resources so they will catch up eventually.

You are correct about Linux. It's too small a market share to make large scale investment for a home user worthwhile and a majority of the Linux user base is not known for revenue generating.

It's growing in popularity on the Enterprise side of things mainly because IBM is pushing and supporting it. Of course, they make billions on OS400 and AIX and have for years and I doubt many people have an AS400 or AIX box at home. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Give me a break. EVERY OS has major security issues. Look at the number of releases Apple has popped out for OS X 10.4, I think at last count it was 9, all of which contained between 10 and 27 security fixes. Total combined downloads were around a nice fat 150MB... Linux has the same exact issues, and if you think otherwise, you really are not paying attention, and are not keeping your Linux box up to date in any fashion... I think your senses are a wee bit clouded on this issue. All software has issues, mostly because Humans write the stuff. Your lack of understanding of that simple topic makes you sound like some type of Slashdot freak.

Linux and WIndows are BOTH gaining popularity in the Enterprise market.

WWSensei
09-04-2006, 08:13 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Evil.Merlin:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by WWSensei:
Cute, and appears like a good, traditional competitive argument, but not the case. M$ was prevented from bundling it directly because it was a direct conflict of interest scenario. Buy or get their AV to protect you against security holes they introduce into their products? It's like hiring a security guard from the same company that botched the install of your alarm system. Or, as more likely the case in legal terms--extortion. "Pay me to protect your system or I open this vulnerability to the world."

As for firewalls, Vista's is better than XPs (which wasn't really a firewall of any worth) and if they double its capabilities they might be as good as any of the other firewalls from 5 years ago. But they have money and resources so they will catch up eventually.

You are correct about Linux. It's too small a market share to make large scale investment for a home user worthwhile and a majority of the Linux user base is not known for revenue generating.

It's growing in popularity on the Enterprise side of things mainly because IBM is pushing and supporting it. Of course, they make billions on OS400 and AIX and have for years and I doubt many people have an AS400 or AIX box at home. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Give me a break. EVERY OS has major security issues. Look at the number of releases Apple has popped out for OS X 10.4, I think at last count it was 9, all of which contained between 10 and 27 security fixes. Total combined downloads were around a nice fat 150MB... Linux has the same exact issues, and if you think otherwise, you really are not paying attention, and are not keeping your Linux box up to date in any fashion... I think your senses are a wee bit clouded on this issue. All software has issues, mostly because Humans write the stuff. Your lack of understanding of that simple topic makes you sound like some type of Slashdot freak.

Linux and WIndows are BOTH gaining popularity in the Enterprise market. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I didn't say others didn't have issues. And I am far from a Slashdot freak. They are mostly a bunch of morons to busy feeling smug to be useful.

Linux and Apple combined have less than 15% market share and neither is offerring to provide security as a commercial product on top of their OS as an added cost--only Microsoft is. People whine about paying for patches now, how will they react to Microsoft making you pay to plug holes in their product. It's the ultimate in pay-for-patch.

Reality check, Windows own 85% of the home market and around 40%-50% of the Enterprise market. A security bug there is an enormous impact. An Apple vulnerability affects about 25 people and some graphic artists--in other words their vulnerabilities are of no consequence.

I'm no noob to computers--I understand the topic and the market far more than you think. Been in the industry about 20 years now. Was an original kernel contributor to Linux (wrote the 3COM network drivers), have a Sun Microsystems certification for working on anything in the Enterprise series up to and including the Starfire. I've also done quite a bit of AIX and HPUX.

Yes, all OS's have security issues.

Only Windows has the market share dominaince therefore their vulnerability is automatically a bigger risk.

relying on Microsoft to provide security to your machine with a Microsoft vulnerability is simply non-sensical. Instead of spending money and time on things like OneCare why don't they spend the time to fix the vulnerability? If you can't trust them to code the OS to be more secure exactly why would you trust them to code the security programs any better?

For example, the Firewall in XP and in Vista. Still vulnerable because both rely on the WDM database entry--a database readable and writable by any process on the system. It's completely insecure. The OS even comes with builtin tools to change it on the fly. You can fool Security Center into thinking you have AV running and a Firewall up when both are down. It's like double bolting a door to a house with no walls.

And lastly, currently I work very close with Microsoft. I manage four programming teams writing products that work with Exchange, Sharepoint, ISA and Live Server. I am, in fact, heading to Redmond at the end of September for a final rundown of the TAP program for the Office 12 release scheduled for later this year. The program managers at Microsoft of those four products know me by name.

As for my Linux box and updates you can get off the high horse. I've done more Linux installs (hell, I've actually written code for the kernal) and updates than you can even count.

My senses are clouded? Hehe. Dream on.

The reality is if every Linux box used in a critical system went belly up tomorrow the net effect would be nil. The same cannot be said for Windows boxes.

I'm not the one being clouded by his biases. You sound like all the other Microsoft/Gates fanbois found on XBox forums.

-HH-Quazi
09-04-2006, 10:11 PM
Looks like Evil.Merlin called out the wrong m8! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

Evil.Merlin
09-05-2006, 04:07 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by -HH-Quazi:
Looks like Evil.Merlin called out the wrong m8! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not quite... WWSensei lack of knowledge about Vista is clearly showing.

Anyone who understands Vista as much as he claims to, wouldn't have made the above post...

And for a very big reason...

But hey I've only been working on Vista for the past 3 years...

WB_Outlaw
09-08-2006, 07:13 AM
It's a battle of wits with an unarmed man. As usual, the better armed man will always lose this fight. Don't feel bad Sensei, no one can win 'em all.

--Outlaw.

zimbower1
09-08-2006, 09:25 AM
Dont forget the DX10 REALTIME DISPLACEMENT!

http://www.gamespot.com/pc/sim/microsoftflightsimulator....html?sid=6155710%29 (http://www.gamespot.com/pc/sim/microsoftflightsimulatorx/news.html?sid=6155710%29)

http://www.mrayyan.com/?p=69

http://www.bit-tech.net/gaming/2006/04/20/crysis_new_screenshots/1.html

Aaron_GT
09-08-2006, 03:49 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">You are correct about Linux. It's too small a market share to make large scale investment for a home user worthwhile and a majority of the Linux user base is not known for revenue generating. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


This might change over time, though. There are big efforts in South East Asia, China, and India to promote the use of open source software. This is also true in Brazil. With the One Laptop Per Child project its use may also be promoted in Africa. These are likely to be the new emerging markets. Currently Western markets are fairly saturated, so these will be the new markets which offer a chance of increasing revenue for Microsoft, or not as the case may be. The new markets also want to be able to sell Windows applications to the West, so there will still be demand for Windows in these new markets.


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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">The reality is if every Linux box used in a critical system went belly up tomorrow the net effect would be nil. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Do you mean in the sense that there are few Linux boxes running critical systems? There are fair few critical systems running on UNIX-like OSes, at least, (Properietary and BSDs) and increasingly on Linux.

Of course every operating system is full of bugs and holes. It's hard to know what the defect density in Windows is, as this is not a figure that Microsoft publishes, although you can do static analyses of Linux, etc. You can also harden Linux via work done by the NSA. The openness of Linux (and others) tends to promote discussion of flaws, but in theory people can also read the source, find a flaw, and exploit it, but then script kiddies have no problem exploiting Windows without the source, so the source is not required before exploitation.

IvanoBulo
09-09-2006, 03:54 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by zimbower1:
Dont forget the DX10 REALTIME DISPLACEMENT!

http://www.gamespot.com/pc/sim/microsoftflightsimulator....html?sid=6155710%29 (http://www.gamespot.com/pc/sim/microsoftflightsimulatorx/news.html?sid=6155710%29)

http://www.mrayyan.com/?p=69

http://www.bit-tech.net/gaming/2006/04/20/crysis_new_screenshots/1.html </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Looks nice. Although, why most peoples thinks that such visual effect cannot be achieved by OpenGL? You will see that after some time there will be a lot of extensions for OpenGL and you'll be able to see all of these features in OpenGL games. Just forget about the Vista and play BoB under Windows XP, because for the money you can save for not buying Vista, you will be able to buy most expensive video card and maybe even BoB dvd-box for the change http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

daFat1
09-10-2006, 12:40 AM
Dear OLEG n Crew,

after reading all this stuff about Vista and the CHAOS that seems to come with it, I really hope that (since they are now on intel) there will be a Mac OS X version of BOB!

Cheers

|ZUTI|
09-10-2006, 10:21 PM
I tried il2 on vista RC1 and i must say i am impressed. It ras quite nicely. Not as fast as on XP, that was to be expected, but it was playable. The only thing that made me recover my XP image was the fact that drivers arent' there yet. And that was to be expected too http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif nvidia drivers were crashing on my setup. They did recover, but nonetheless. Performance factor on my system went up for at least 200% since last beta.

System:
6600GT
Barton 2500+ clocket at @2200Mhz(more like a duron theese days with only 128KB of L2 cache, probably does have some inpact on performance)
1.5GB DDR at (178Mhz).

Satisfied with the progress. And vista itself is runing like a charm. I bet it will be working quite well on worse systems.

EDIT: Oh yes, i was running OpenGL and did not reinstall the game. Just played what i alredy had on HDD after Xp installation.

CARBONFREEZE
09-14-2006, 02:00 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Manu-6S:
Oleg should sell a version of BOB for Linux; using OpenGL he can do it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Agree 110% + MW50!

I for one will not be purchasing Longhorn/Vista until there are games that I cannot get running under Linux/Wine or XP Pro. Hopefully this will never occour. After switching to linux about four years ago, I only use Windows for my Starforce games and some picky games that just won't run right under WINE.

IL-2 does work great with the newer wine versions, my CH fighterstick, Cougar, and CH pedals all work fine. Cougar works with whatever map you had setup in windows (microstick as mouse etc).

OldMan____
09-14-2006, 03:17 PM
OpenGL can do everything DX can and wil always do. A ssoon as M$ releise a new DX, a few weeks alter NV and ATI implement theirs extensiosn to GL. GL does nto need to change version to incorporate features, so its much more flexible. Also when NV and ATI invent a new feature they usually implement it in OpenGL , because they need M$ to release a new DX version to support it. Example. Shader Model 3.0, first game ot use it? Pacific Fighter.. OpenGL. First DX game to use it came one year later.

Evil.Merlin
09-16-2006, 08:53 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by OldMan____:
OpenGL can do everything DX can and wil always do. A ssoon as M$ releise a new DX, a few weeks alter NV and ATI implement theirs extensiosn to GL. GL does nto need to change version to incorporate features, so its much more flexible. Also when NV and ATI invent a new feature they usually implement it in OpenGL , because they need M$ to release a new DX version to support it. Example. Shader Model 3.0, first game ot use it? Pacific Fighter.. OpenGL. First DX game to use it came one year later. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh my god, you are soooo wrong. I love how people claim this.

DirectX is NOT just a API for 3D graphics. OpenGL is.

DirectX is made up of Direct3D (which is similiar to OpenGL), DirectSound, DirectPlay, DirectInput, DirectMusic, DirectSetup, DirectX Media and Objects. (most of which are being superceeded in DirectX 10 with XNA

Hell it wasn't even till OpenGL 2 that OpenGL even supported programmable stages, which Direct3D supported from day 1. Currently most video hardware manufacturers don't fully support OpenGL 2, mostly because of the support for GLSL which requires a rather large rewrite of any existing OpenGL drivers.

If you honestly think OpenGL can do what Direct3d can do you really should re-check both API's. I would highly recommend reading up on shader models, which would be one of the biggest differences between OpenGL and Direct3D.

Aaron_GT
09-17-2006, 02:21 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I for one will not be purchasing Longhorn/Vista until there are games that I cannot get running under Linux/Wine or XP Pro. Hopefully this will never occour. After switching to linux about four years ago, I only use Windows for my Starforce games and some picky games that just won't run right under WINE. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


That's what I'd be doing too, except for lack of TrackIR support and the fact that I stupidly bought an ATI 9800 Pro, and I've never been able to get the 3D support for it working to a decent standard and frames per second. Next time it's a card that works well with Linux.

CARBONFREEZE
09-17-2006, 01:32 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Aaron_GT:

That's what I'd be doing too, except for lack of TrackIR support </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

There was someone working with the guys that made TrackIR to write a driver, but I think it was for 2.4 kernels - and I'm not sure if it would work because there is no support for it in WINE (AFAIK). I just use the microstick on my cougar as a mouse and that works rather well for view changes along with a hat switch.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">ATI 9800 Pro, and I've never been able to get the 3D support for it working to a decent standard and frames per second. Next time it's a card that works well with Linux. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, I learned that lesson when I was using a 9800pro. ATI drivers have imporved since then but they are still more difficult to install compared to nvidia; unless your distro has an installation source (feed) which contains the drivers.

Aaron_GT
09-17-2006, 04:25 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Yeah, I learned that lesson when I was using a 9800pro. ATI drivers have imporved since then but they are still more difficult to install compared to nvidia; unless your distro has an installation source (feed) which contains the drivers. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm using Ubuntu 6.06 and I've downloaded the ATI drivers a few times in the past and tried to get them install and provide some 3D capability, even if just for the additional desktop eyecandy, but it never seems to quite work and then I lose patience.

USB Audio support for my external module isn't great, and the Midi/Audio recording tools aren't up to the level of tools on Mac or Windows, so I still have Windows installed for that so it wasn't worth investing any more time getting the ATI drivers to work.

One day, hopefully, the audio/midi music tools will the there and the ATI drivers, or I'll be back on Nvidia. One of the two.

I wonder if there is a way of using ndiswrapper to get the TrackIR Windows drivers to work? Might work, but I doubt it would talk to wine or cedega.