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Kaleun1961
07-25-2007, 12:53 PM
Patton's speech updated for our day. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

YouTube Patton (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyUX6wV1lBQ)

Kaleun1961
07-25-2007, 12:53 PM
Patton's speech updated for our day. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

YouTube Patton (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyUX6wV1lBQ)

comanderFritz
07-25-2007, 01:07 PM
that is just about the best speech ive ever herd. rock on patton

Liddabit
07-25-2007, 02:15 PM
I loved that thanks http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif Can't wait to show to hubby when he gets home tonight, he has a big framed patton painting in our bedroom :P

danurve
07-25-2007, 02:55 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Liddabit:
I loved that thanks http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif Can't wait to show to hubby when he gets home tonight, he has a big framed patton painting in our bedroom :P </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif Oh my..

Minoos
07-25-2007, 03:10 PM
http://www.zazzle.com/rlv/isapi/designall.dll?style=stein_mug&color=white_gold&size=22oz&max_dim=500&bg=0xffffff&drawareaboundingbox=false&drawsafearea=false&square_it=true&draw_relative_size=true&rvtype=product&view=outside&lon=90&action=realview&pdt=mug&pending=false&pid=168904581677144219

PhantomKira
07-25-2007, 04:28 PM
"You sons of B**** etc" Yes. Very endearing. I respond well to being called names. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif.

The_Silent_O
07-25-2007, 08:56 PM
...If only our modern Generals would TALK and ACT like Patton, Sherman, Grant, LeMay, Eisenhower... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif

...This 'insurgency' might be over by now...

...instead we get speeches that sound like a Doctorate Thesis... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/sleepzzz.gif

MarkSynthesis
07-25-2007, 09:41 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by The_Silent_O:
...If only our modern Generals would TALK and ACT like Patton, Sherman, Grant, LeMay, Eisenhower... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

In all fairness, these men didn't act, or even talk, all that similarly.

For example, Eisenhower could laugh at a joke at himself. Patton...well, he'd just have you shot for making it. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Generals were just as varied as normal people, really.

The_Silent_O
07-26-2007, 10:06 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MarkSynthesis:

In all fairness, these men didn't act, or even talk, all that similarly.

For example, Eisenhower could laugh at a joke at himself. Patton...well, he'd just have you shot for making it. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Generals were just as varied as normal people, really. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

My assertion wasn't that they were similar in nature, but instead were all men of action that spoke in simple and direct (non-political) terms about how they would defeat the enemy.

Compare a GEN Patton or Sherman quote to a modern day General's, you'll see what I'm talking about.

Modern day Generals (in my Army) have whole committees that vet what they are going to say to the public.

Modern day Generals in this war (Iraq) are also more bound by our congress, president and public (media) then Generals were in the past.

Men like Patton, LeMay etc could ACT more autonmously and probably wrote their own speeches (statements) about 2 minutes before they said them.

Celeon999
07-26-2007, 10:18 AM
I like this quote from Patton :

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">"The two most dangerous weapons the Germans have are our own armored halftrack and jeep. The halftrack because the boys in it go all heroic, thinking they are in a tank. The jeep because we have so many God-awful drivers." </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Its so ironic that he later died in a car accident involving a u.s army truck.

Celeon999
07-26-2007, 10:56 AM
But as we are talking about Patton's positive character aspects we should also discuss the other side of his personality.

His antipathy for political correctness and disability to keep his tongue under control brought him more into problems than getting him respect.

He once refered to the nazi party as "a fully normal political party" and even compared it with the established political parties in the USA. (He lost his command for making this statement)

Another example is his suggestion to forge a alliance with Germany against the Soviet Union which brought him into serious trouble considering the USA's ww2 alliance with the Soviets.

Another thing was his statement about his view of the russians :

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> the Russian has no regard for human life and they are all out sons-of-bi*****, barbarians, and chronic drunks </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Patton never made a big secret of his anti-semitic views and expressed them openly just like he did with other things.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">[others may believe]... that the Displaced Person is a human being, which he is not, and this applies particularly to the Jews, who are lower than animals </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Although it is stated that Patton was shocked just like all of his men when he liberated a concentration camp, his admiration of the SS was not really affected by that.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">The SS is a damn good looking bunch of disciplined sons-of-bit***** </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Another comment from his later published diary brought him post-humous criticism

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> I have great respect for the german soldiers, actually the germans are the only decent people living in Europe. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


So as much as Patton was a great man from a military point of view, he surely wasnt a great man beside that.

To be honest , Patton's personal and political views are in several aspects against that what america stood and stands for. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

So, yes there is no doubt that he was a controversial man. Beside all admiration for his positive character aspects, one should always remember that there was more on Patton than just that.

Should he be considered a role model ? No. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif Take 50 % and forget about the rest of him.

AbleMaster
07-26-2007, 11:33 AM
Very good, enjoyed that thanks. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif

MarkSynthesis
07-26-2007, 11:44 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Celeon999:
But as we are talking about Patton's positive character aspects we should also discuss the other side of his personality.

His antipathy for political correctness and disability to keep his tongue under control brought him more into problems than getting him respect.

He once refered to the nazi party as "a fully normal political party" and even compared it with the established political parties in the USA. (He lost his command for making this statement)

Another example is his suggestion to forge a alliance with Germany against the Soviet Union which brought him into serious trouble considering the USA's ww2 alliance with the Soviets.

Another thing was his statement about his view of the russians :

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> the Russian has no regard for human life and they are all out sons-of-bi*****, barbarians, and chronic drunks </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Patton never made a big secret of his anti-semitic views and expressed them openly just like he did with other things.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">[others may believe]... that the Displaced Person is a human being, which he is not, and this applies particularly to the Jews, who are lower than animals </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Although it is stated that Patton was shocked just like all of his men when he liberated a concentration camp, his admiration of the SS was not really affected by that.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">The SS is a damn good looking bunch of disciplined sons-of-bit***** </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Another comment from his later published diary brought him post-humous criticism

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> I have great respect for the german soldiers, actually the germans are the only decent people living in Europe. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


So as much as Patton was a great man from a military point of view, he surely wasnt a great man beside that.

To be honest , Patton's personal and political views are in several aspects against that what america stood and stands for. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

So, yes there is no doubt that he was a controversial man. Beside all admiration for his positive character aspects, one should always remember that there was more on Patton than just that.

Should he be considered a role model ? No. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif Take 50 % and forget about the rest of him. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Don't be so sure--antisemitism and racism were as much part of 1940s America as anything else. Patton wasn't unique in his feelings--he just felt the need to express them.

I remember Patton was also held responsible for executions of German Army POWs in retaliation for the brutal fighting in Italy before 1944--"psychological warfare" against the rest of the German Army. I'm not saying that compares to the acts of the SS or anything, but that doesn't make it less of a warcrime.

It may be a different general I'm thinking off--though I think it was Patton.

Celeon999
07-26-2007, 12:07 PM
You surely refer to the "Biscari massacre"

Patton had no connection to it.

But the involved u.s soldiers claimed they were just following orders given by him.

Biscari Massacre (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biscari_Massacre)


If you ask me, the quoted part of his speech gives a good insight on why he admirated the SS.

comanderFritz
07-26-2007, 01:07 PM
i still think of patton as a role moddle i knew most of those things but not all of them and now that i know all of them my opinion of him hasnt changed at all. i still think we shouldnt have stopped marching untill we reached moscow.

The_Silent_O
07-26-2007, 02:34 PM
Like him or hate him, Patton was unique and complex. So much so that they made a very popular movie about him that won academy awards.

"O" trivia -- When the "O" was in High School he lived about three house down from where Captain George Patton once lived. (Fort Sheridan, IL).

Because Patton was so bombastic, over great generals have been overlooked: Bradley, Ridgeway, Gavin and Clark ... these were some humble men who did their missions well.

MarkSynthesis
07-26-2007, 02:44 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Celeon999:
You surely refer to the "Biscari massacre"

Patton had no connection to it.

But the involved u.s soldiers claimed they were just following orders given by him.

Biscari Massacre (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biscari_Massacre) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, that was what I was thinking of. I knew he was connected with it, but i wasn't aware of the actual details--I suppose given his personality and attitudes, it would be easy to (unfairly) blame Patton.

I do know he hated the Red Army with a passion (as did many American commanders)--though I don't know whether he seriously entertained the delusion that the next logical step, after Berlin's surrender, was to repeat Operation Barabossa, or merely to attempt to force the Red Army out of Eastern Europe.

I remember hearing a few "radical" British officers who, before 1946, put together a rough battleplan of it--Operation Something-or-another. It never materialized into anything, of course, because it was so unfeasible...though if Patton had been alive, who knows? As they say, perhaps Russians would be speaking English now, or Britons would be writing in Cyrillic.