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View Full Version : 1v1 BnZ = Endless head-ons?



MelonheadUK
06-02-2005, 12:12 PM
Hi guys

I'm hoping you can help me out here. I've only been flying for about 3 weeks, but have great fun 1v1 flying a Spit VIII against a 109E. Lots of twists and turns and chases.

Yesterday I decided to try a different type of plane in place of the Spit - a P47D. I soon realised that the P47D was not going to be able to emulate the Spit and a new strategy was needed. A quick read of SimHQ had me all clued up on Boom and Zoom, so today I thought I'd have a go. Here's the result of a QMB battle:

1) We fly at each other head-on, guns blazing
2) 109E goes into usual instant turn. I keep flying for 3 boring minutes being chased by the 109 until I've put 3km beween us and can safely turn before he's on me
4) We fly at each other head-on again, guns blazing
5) I fly for 3 boring minutes to put 3km between us and turn
6) We fly at each other head-on again...

You see the pattern emerging here? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Now I totally accept that I am new to all this, but to me it seems pretty clear that if you're trying to BnZ a plane that just turns into you all the time, all you're going to get is a series of head-on encounters. Does BnZ rely on there being more than just 1v1, or the element of suprise in a 1v1? Because if just 2 planes start out facing each other I don't see how it's ever gonna end in anything but the potluck shoot-out of repeated head-ons.

I'm happy to go back to my style of TnB if need be, but I'm sure I'm missing something fundamental here...

MelonheadUK
06-02-2005, 12:12 PM
Hi guys

I'm hoping you can help me out here. I've only been flying for about 3 weeks, but have great fun 1v1 flying a Spit VIII against a 109E. Lots of twists and turns and chases.

Yesterday I decided to try a different type of plane in place of the Spit - a P47D. I soon realised that the P47D was not going to be able to emulate the Spit and a new strategy was needed. A quick read of SimHQ had me all clued up on Boom and Zoom, so today I thought I'd have a go. Here's the result of a QMB battle:

1) We fly at each other head-on, guns blazing
2) 109E goes into usual instant turn. I keep flying for 3 boring minutes being chased by the 109 until I've put 3km beween us and can safely turn before he's on me
4) We fly at each other head-on again, guns blazing
5) I fly for 3 boring minutes to put 3km between us and turn
6) We fly at each other head-on again...

You see the pattern emerging here? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Now I totally accept that I am new to all this, but to me it seems pretty clear that if you're trying to BnZ a plane that just turns into you all the time, all you're going to get is a series of head-on encounters. Does BnZ rely on there being more than just 1v1, or the element of suprise in a 1v1? Because if just 2 planes start out facing each other I don't see how it's ever gonna end in anything but the potluck shoot-out of repeated head-ons.

I'm happy to go back to my style of TnB if need be, but I'm sure I'm missing something fundamental here...

RedDeth
06-02-2005, 12:16 PM
read this thread by jumo. itll explain a lot. its on this forum same page. heres the link though.

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/23110283/m/7361081623

carguy_
06-02-2005, 12:36 PM
B&Z relies on shooting effectiveness more than anything.

AerialTarget
06-02-2005, 02:18 PM
Boom and zoom is a completely different (and much, much better) tactic than a head-on firing pass. When a boom and zoom is properly executed, the enemy will never get a chance to fire at you, although good pilots being boom and zoomed may be able to pull up at the right moment and force a head-on if you are not careful.

The idea is to attack from above and behind (hopefully at least five thousand feet higher than the enemy). After you fire, don't immediately pull up, but extend to a good distance (I wait until the aircraft's wings are no longer rendered on normal zoom). Then gently, very gently, pull back on the stick. You should pull it back no more than an inch. If timed right, and your plane is faster than his, you should end up above him again. Perform a hammerhead on the pitch axis instead of the yaw axis, and fall back down on him.

LStarosta
06-02-2005, 02:30 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">great fun 1v1 flying a Spit VIII against a 109E. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

... What a great matchup. Try SpitVIII vs Bf109K

WWSensei
06-02-2005, 02:38 PM
"Captain, his actions indicate 2 dimensional thinking..."

lbhskier37
06-02-2005, 02:41 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LStarosta:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">great fun 1v1 flying a Spit VIII against a 109E. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

... What a great matchup. Try SpitVIII vs Bf109K </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I was going to say the same thing, but then I realized he was probably new. Me and my buddy that is new to the game have been flying a similar 1v1 with him in a Spit mkIX lf and me in an F2A. Ya gotta start somewhere.

SithSpeeder
06-02-2005, 03:31 PM
What AerialTarget said...

So how do you do it against AI in this game? They are typically quite predictable. I have effectively used a P-51 vs. a (insert AI piloted plane here) to BnZ by doing a gentle turn 180 degrees away from the incoming bandit while climbing at a speed slightly faster than my best climb speed. This is to both give me separation as well as a reasonably good climb. Then I continue my climbing turn so that the bandit is now abeam (another 90 degrees... so that I can see them coming in under my wingtip). Usually by now, I have at least 1000m altitude on them. I'll turn just a bit more while having enough to do a 'lite' high yo-yo, then come screaming down firing at the cockpit from above (as they pull up). Then, gently pull up, conserving E (no blackout should occur--using elevator trim can help do this), return to a place above them, then wingover and repeat.

The goal is to make your gunnery so good that you can get the deflection shot at least half the time (more is better).

Hope that helps. I might could post a track if you don't understand my description, though. I frequently do this either 1 vs 2 to 4 OR 2 vs. 2 to 4 (if I want to have an AI wingman).

* _54th_Speeder *

Recon_609IAP
06-02-2005, 04:23 PM
I pick up a bunch of speed on the initial pass by going nose down, then I zoom climb - the bandit usually goes under and turns hard to come up but typically can't match the climb - I do more of a spiral climb, keeping the bandit in my rear sights. (immelman style)

I roll over at the top - positioned in a lag pursuit and then continue to make passes on him, never turning hard.

He will try to pull me into a scissor, I tend to avoid that until I've damaged him. Also - he will do a split-S and go low - I tend to not follow, but instead keep him visually in my sights. Once he is low from the split-S I have successfully taken his altitude from him and he has no chance.

AerialTarget
06-02-2005, 10:46 PM
Now, since we clearly have some good boom and zoomers here, I would like to ask for advice. I never got the hang of using the slow (in the game) P-38 in boom and zoom. I find two things happen. First, compression and the subsequent airbraking or, in the case of the J, throttle chop and pitch lowering, cause you to lose so much energy that no matter what your original height was, you will only be able to gain about five thousand feet. Since most airplanes in the game that you encouter online are faster than the P-38, you have to get him within a very few attemps because he will quickly catch up to you.

The other thing that I noticed happening is that it seems to be physically impossible to zoom climb high enough in the P-38, because of the aforementioned energy loss due to compression, to be out of the range of the potential boomee's guns. The tactics which work for me with every other aircraft, from the slow P-40 E to the average Me-109 G-2 to the fast Me-109 K, simply do not work with the P-38. I have tried many things. Some people at this forum claim that the P-38 is a capable boom and zoomer; might one of you P-38 boom and zoomers (Gibbage? Cuda?) show me what I am doing wrong in this track, and perhaps post on of your own showing what action I could have taken?

I shall return shortly with tracks.

jurinko
06-03-2005, 12:19 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by AerialTarget:
Now, since we clearly have some good boom and zoomers here, I would like to ask for advice. I never got the hang of using the slow (in the game) P-38 in boom and zoom. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

P38 sux.. not good for turning and bad high speed handling for BnZ. Good against japanese slow planes in horizontal BnZ. Use flaps wisely, aerial brake on late model and use elevator trim often. Rumours about the patch say P-38 is kinda more realistic (better).

AerialTarget
06-03-2005, 12:53 AM
I agree with you perfectly. However, every time I open my mouth to say that the P-38 in the game is a miserable plane, I get half a dozen people chiming in with, "There's nothing wrong with the plane, you just can't fly it."

I'm afraid that I have no tracks right now. I cannot get the artificial intelligence to do what a player does - use war emergency power on the Me-109 G-6 with boost, and fire at me as I zoom climb. I shall try again when I next fly with Odin.

han freak solo
06-04-2005, 06:08 PM
This endless head-on attack approach does get friggin' boring. I get stuck in it flying the P-40B against the Ki-43 sometimes. ZZZZZZZZZZ. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif