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mcgslo
08-24-2010, 01:57 AM
At least 9 Factions would be nice more preferable.

GOOD factions: (magic schools: White magic,Nature Magic,Water Magic)

-Heaven/Human: with tier7 Angels or Paladin-Angels (primary White Magic)

-Rangers/Nature: with tier7 White Dragons or Giant treants (could attack with underground roots..) (primary Nature Magic)

-Swamp/watter castle: with tier7 Hydras or Giant Snakes (primary Water Magic)


EVIL Factions: (magic schools: Fire Magic, Black Magic, Warrior Shouts)

-Hell: with tier7 Devils or "balrog kind of creature" (primary Fire Magic)

-Barbarrians: with tier7 Behemonds or trolls (primary Warrior shouts)

-Necromancer: with tier7 Ghost Dragons or death reapers (primary Black Magic)


NEUTRAL Factions: (magic schools: Order Magic, Air Magic, Earth Magic)

-Wizards/Academy/Cloud city: with tier7 Titans (primary Order Magic)

-Dungeon: with tier7 Black Dragons (primary Earth Magic)

-Elemental City: with tier7 Phoenix (primary Air Magic)


OTHER Faction ideas:
-Industry City: with tier7 Machanical creature
-Complete Underwatter Castle: with tier 7 sea creatures or Giant squids or Krakens
-Elemental City could also be torn to 4 different castles with Elements... like Earth Castle, Air, Watter,Fire castles
-...


Races i didnt like: Runes castle was stupid and runes were broken... all creatures had more speed than other tier7 creatures and they all looked the same.

mcgslo
08-24-2010, 01:57 AM
At least 9 Factions would be nice more preferable.

GOOD factions: (magic schools: White magic,Nature Magic,Water Magic)

-Heaven/Human: with tier7 Angels or Paladin-Angels (primary White Magic)

-Rangers/Nature: with tier7 White Dragons or Giant treants (could attack with underground roots..) (primary Nature Magic)

-Swamp/watter castle: with tier7 Hydras or Giant Snakes (primary Water Magic)


EVIL Factions: (magic schools: Fire Magic, Black Magic, Warrior Shouts)

-Hell: with tier7 Devils or "balrog kind of creature" (primary Fire Magic)

-Barbarrians: with tier7 Behemonds or trolls (primary Warrior shouts)

-Necromancer: with tier7 Ghost Dragons or death reapers (primary Black Magic)


NEUTRAL Factions: (magic schools: Order Magic, Air Magic, Earth Magic)

-Wizards/Academy/Cloud city: with tier7 Titans (primary Order Magic)

-Dungeon: with tier7 Black Dragons (primary Earth Magic)

-Elemental City: with tier7 Phoenix (primary Air Magic)


OTHER Faction ideas:
-Industry City: with tier7 Machanical creature
-Complete Underwatter Castle: with tier 7 sea creatures or Giant squids or Krakens
-Elemental City could also be torn to 4 different castles with Elements... like Earth Castle, Air, Watter,Fire castles
-...


Races i didnt like: Runes castle was stupid and runes were broken... all creatures had more speed than other tier7 creatures and they all looked the same.

GoranXII
08-24-2010, 05:27 AM
Why is Swamp considered good while Wizards are neutral?

karinnarre
08-24-2010, 06:26 AM
Hard to look at Swamp as a good faction. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Swamps have always been represented throughout fantasy games as a dark, humid, cold place, foggy, with shallow water, treacherous, home to black magic and all sorts of mutant-like creatures of the night, with crawling plants, etc...

http://www.visualparadox.com/wallpapers/swamp800.htm

Wizards might be considered neutral due to their dedication to study and thirst for knowledge. They are constantly in pursuit of said knowledge, and have little interest or benefits in affiliating with the forces of good/evil that battle around, as it would attract enemies from the other side and limit their research.

Elemental fits as Neutral, as for the Dungeon .... even the name itself implies the use of architecture for evil purposes. Not Neutral.

Hmm .. the forces of good need more allies. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

mcgslo
08-24-2010, 07:21 AM
Good points.

I did consider swaping Barbarrians with Dungeon... or even rename and make somewhat different theme for dungeon so it would fit Neutral group. I think that dragons could be neutral. Or swap with barbarrians and retheme Barbarrians.

As for swamp/watter faction why couldnt they be good? They are part of nature and maybe they fight for their survival. And gungans from star wars were good swamp ppl http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif (not thinking about them just a thought)

Post another faction that could fit GOOD group?

BlackEscaflowne
08-24-2010, 07:51 AM
Swamp.....barbarian....hmm...dunno.

I'm just not seeing the swamp town as good. Truth be told, it was basicly barbarians in swamp, instead of desert.

Personally, I'd rather have fewer, but more detailed faction, then more factions. Quality over quantity. Development funds and money are limited.

And a underwater castle with squids and krakens? Just how would they get around on land?

graham6
08-24-2010, 09:38 AM
I don't know how many of you have played the Might and Magic RPG series; there was a feature in MM7 that I'd love to see incorporated into HoMM: the good/evil promotion.

At a certain point in the game the player had to make a choice between two paths which would influence the future development of all characters, e.g. a wizard would be promoted to Archmage if you chose the good path, or be promoted to a Lich if you chose evil.

In HoMM, this could be done as alternate upgrades. Either three upgrades (good/neutral/evil) or maybe better two upgrades, depending on the predisposition of the faction.

Based on the HoMM5 factions it could go something like this:

good factions:
Haven -- upgrades to good or evil
Sylvan -- upgrades to good or neutral
Academy -- upgrades to good or neutral

evil factions:
Dungeon -- upgrades to good or evil
Necropolis -- upgrades to neutral or evil
Inferno -- upgrades to neutral or evil

neutral factions:
Fortress -- upgrades to good or neutral
Stronghold -- upgrades to neutral or evil
Conflux/Elemental -- upgrades to good or evil

mcgslo
08-25-2010, 02:34 AM
graham6:
How did you think that this upgrades would work. If you choose one path will you be force to have creatures only for these path? or can you swap them later on? And when will you choose your path from beginning?

Nice idea... i would add more upgrades since if you choose e.g. good Angel than you have good angel the rest of the game. So when you choose "good" angel it can be further upgraded e.g. from Lesser Angel to Angel Warrior...

That means that each castle would have 4 upgrades.... i can live with that :P

graham6
08-25-2010, 09:17 AM
I would make it so you cannot upgrade creature dwellings until you have chosen the path for the particular city -- you'd be able choose for each city independently which way to go -- by building a specific structure, like a Temple of the Sun OR a Temple of the Moon.

The type of upgrade can't be changed once this decision has been made, but creatures could be re-upgraded in adventure map locations like Hill Forts.

Aosaw
08-25-2010, 07:05 PM
I like the idea of choosing an alignment for your faction, rather than having one laid out already in front of you. I think it would create an unnecessary amount of work for the designers, though.

I like the fact that they've pared things down to five factions (I suspect Academy will be there to balance out Necromancers, and perhaps Sylvan for their affinity with dragons).

I do wonder, though, how five human dukes are going to create a race of elves to lead the Sylvans.

I don't think there need to be as many factions as you think there do. Six, to me, makes the most sense. Starting with five isn't a problem.

Oakwarrior
08-26-2010, 06:08 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">-Elemental City: with tier7 Phoenix (primary Air Magic) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

ROFL.
Look how well that turned out last time http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

For 9 factions, I'd say that's really hard to balance and really time-consuming to make in general. With expansions or something, maybe - it'd be great, actually http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

And hell yeah for a Swamp castle - H3 Fortress FTW.

mcgslo
08-27-2010, 07:55 AM
Oakwarrior:
Feel free to post your idea for tier 7 Elemental reature.

(i know i wasnt very imaginative about Phoenix http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif)
Because i like dragons it could be something like Cloud dragon. Or some ultimate elemental creature. Or some other idea of creature/construct made or tamed by elementals.

Why dont we have just 3 faction less work and more perfect balance?!!!
NO man we need as much as possible races in original or final product originals + addons... but you have to consider all posible creatures from begining specially because of balance. Utherwise addon can bring totaly unbalanced faction.

Xenofex_086
08-27-2010, 10:54 AM
The names/skins of the creatures rarely have anything to do with the game balance anyway. Well, almost at least. If you name something Demigod of Annihilation, you can't give it tier 1 creature stats, but for 6 or 7 where it should belong (tier 7 being the strongest castle-based creature), you can do whatever you want with it - it just have to remain somewhat balanced compared to its peers.
If there is an Elemental City, which I don't find necessary, its Tier 7 should be something like Balance Elemental (or some other pompous name like that) - an impossible creature, combining the power of the existing elements and using them all for offensive and defensive purposes.
What is a Cloud Dragon? Dragon on drugs? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Aosaw
08-27-2010, 11:03 AM
I'm a little bit surprised, with the mythology of Ashan, that we haven't seen dragons as a part of the Inferno army.

I mean, yes, Devils and Archdevils are the iconic tier 7 creature. But Urgash is the Dragon of Chaos, not the Demon of Chaos. Why are dragons not part of the Inferno's arsenal?

I still think nine factions is way too many; anything more than eight becomes cumbersome, and for the initial release I'd be hesitant to trust more than six. You spend too much time thinking up different kinds of armies, you then also have to spend additional time thinking about where those armies fit into the existing world. It's not worth the effort, in my opinion; especially when they're trying so hard just to make the game itself work for a somewhat disillusioned market.

Xenofex_086
08-27-2010, 11:39 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Aosaw:I'm a little bit surprised, with the mythology of Ashan, that we haven't seen dragons as a part of the Inferno army. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Erm... right. Why not make all of the top tier creatures dragons, that will be the greatest triumph of the human imagination ever! And while we are on it - we can make even some of the weaker creatures dragon-like. For instance, a Dragonling Knight - basically this will be a Cavalier in full armor, but it will ride a small dragon and will be a humanoid dragon himself (breathing sacred fire instead of ordinary one though). And then we can have a Cyclops Dragon as a tier 6 creature for Stronghold - it will have one eye and will speak in Greek - with the tier 7 being, of course, a Bahemothodragon which will breathe out gigantic nails that lower the enemy defense by 80% when they hit. The Wizards will have Naga Dragons with 2 or 3 pairs of wings and... well, they'll just have 4 or 6 wings.
Seriously now - the dragons in HoMM V were more than enough. It's not that I hate them - on the contrary, they are nice creatures and worthy of their high placing - but I don't really love them either (as most of the people here I suppose) and want a bit more diversity in the top tier department. Cloning one and the same creature throughout the factions, only painted differently, is not the greatest proof for imagination in my book. And I'm not talking about the skills of these creatures - you can have 100 humans with 200-300 different skills, but as far as the concept is concerned, you won't really make a great fantasy TBS with them.

Aosaw
08-27-2010, 01:07 PM
Actually, what I meant wasn't that Inferno should have dragons in addition to dungeon, sylvan, and...dwarf. I meant that maybe the evil dragons should be inferno-based creatures, rather than dungeon-based ones. There was nothing in the mythos of dark elves in HoMM V to suggest that the dark elves worshiped any sort of dragon; the decision seemed to stem from tradition - i.e., the tradition of all black dragons being from the Dungeon faction.

Certainly, the game doesn't need more dragons than it already has. But maybe moving things around a bit would make more sense. If the Paladin is now the Haven's Might hero, why didn't they make the Devil into the Inferno's Might hero? I've never been a huge fan of the Devil unit to begin with, though I'm sure that's just me; but I always felt that it was strange to have Devils and Archdevils being beholden to mortal heroes.

Xenofex_086
08-27-2010, 03:41 PM
They are following the legacy, that's why. The Black Dragon has always been a Warlock/Dungeon creature and hopefully always will be. It is like a symbol for the entire faction, along with, but to lesser extent, the Minotaur. Likewise, the Devil/Arch Devil is Inferno's top tier creatures since HoMM III and even though he is conceptually Kreegan, not some conveyer demon, it makes sense to keep them in HoMM V. The same goes for the Angel/Archangel, even though Haven worship Elrath, who is some "dragon" too.
Anyway, as unoriginal as the story and the world of HoMM V are, one might actually argue whether the "dragons" that created everything should be physically depicted as standard dragons (you know - wings, tale, scales, spikes, etc.), or this is just a word for describing entities with great power. Like another way to say "gods". Respectively the "lesser" dragons like the Black ones could be percieved as lesser gods, but not necessarily representing something closely similar to the "great" dragons.
Anyway, I'd vote for the Devil/Angel to remain where they currently are.

Dergos
08-27-2010, 03:45 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Likewise, the Devil/Arch Devil is Inferno's top tier creatures since HoMM III and even though he is conceptually Kreegan, not some conveyer demon </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

i hope the concept of the devil unit looks a bit more kreegan instead of that giant pit bull we had in h5

Destruction3402
08-27-2010, 09:14 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Dergos:
i hope the concept of the devil unit looks a bit more kreegan instead of that giant pit bull we had in h5 </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I agree 100%!

Aosaw
08-27-2010, 11:06 PM
That makes a fair bit of sense, Xenofex. I still think I'd rather see Devils on horses as heroes, rather than on the battlefield, but your explanation does offer a more fiscal perspective. If they removed Devils/Archdevils, they'd probably alienate a few people. Not to mention having to explain why the demons suddenly had dragons.

Madmaxxor
09-09-2010, 02:08 AM
necroPOLis have Dark Angels as Last (Tier) Units..

Xenofex_086
09-09-2010, 04:32 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> necroPOLis have Dark Angels as Last (Tier) Units.. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Is this a statement, or a guess/suggestion? If it's the first one - source?

mcgslo
09-10-2010, 03:28 AM
its not official but in the movie you can see angels wings turn black.... so maybe...

Madmaxxor
09-14-2010, 09:15 AM
The angel in the cinematic turns dark and it's about time they changed the last tier units for some of the races...spectral dragons just don't fit there i thiNK..Too many dragons as last tier units..

KingImp
09-14-2010, 09:48 AM
I just ask for one thing that news I've read worries me.

We need a minimum of 6 factions to start, not 5 like we've been hearing.
I just feel that there needs to be an even amount so each faction has another to directly oppose them.

Xenofex_086
09-14-2010, 01:29 PM
2 good - Haven and maybe one of the unknown, 2 evil - Inferno and Necropolis, and 1 neutral. That's my math.

KingImp
09-15-2010, 12:30 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xenofex_086:
2 good - Haven and maybe one of the unknown, 2 evil - Inferno and Necropolis, and 1 neutral. That's my math. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That just feels like a step backwards IMO.

We had 8 to start in Heroes 3, with a 9th added in the first expansion.
Then we had 6 to start in Heroes 4 with no more added on in the expansions.
We also had 6 to start in Heroes 5, but got 2 more later on.
Now we are only getting 5 to start? What's next, a measly 3 factions in Heroes 7 like they gave for Disciples 3?

Sorry, I just do not agree with starting with that few, no matter how many they may have planned for future expansions. For all it's faults, Heroes 5 did it perfectly IMO with the 6 to start and 2 more added later on.

BlackEscaflowne
09-15-2010, 12:40 AM
Quality &gt; Quantity

Xenofex_086
09-15-2010, 01:02 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by KingImp:

That just feels like a step backwards IMO. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
It could be, but I suggest we wait and see what will they do with these 5 that are "promised". If they prove to be shallow and uninspired, like nearly half of the factions from HoMM V, then I'll definately agree. If they make them diverse and flexible enough, this will fill the gap. At least temporarily. There is no excuse for not returning the rest of the factions through expansions of course, though I curse this "Release half of the game now and the other half later, so the chumps can pay twice/thrice/etc" method in general.

KingImp
09-15-2010, 01:38 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BlackEscaflowne:
Quality &gt; Quantity </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I believe a vast majority would say that Heroes 3 was and still is the best of the series. That not only had quantity, but quality as well so the argument that it's "either/or" doesn't hold much weight.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xenofex_086:
There is no excuse for not returning the rest of the factions through expansions of course, though I curse this "Release half of the game now and the other half later, so the chumps can pay twice/thrice/etc" method in general. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Agreed wholeheartedly.

Metamagician
09-15-2010, 05:17 AM
Races and creatures within each are much better organized here, in King's Bounty(click on army slots to view races) (http://www.aurelain.ro/HeroScreen/)

Doomcore
09-16-2010, 12:39 AM
I expect at least 6 races on the beginning and +3 in expansion. Wouldn't mind 9 from the beginning either, lol!!!

Good: Haven, Nature, expansion: Dwarfs
Evil: Inferno, Necropolis, expansion: Swamp Fortress (from H3)
Neutral: Academy, Dungeon, expansion: Barbarians/Stronghold

Also, I hope the models wont be like pokemon's in H5, I want a serious looking game with serious looking atmosphere!!!

And some differences in last tier creatures wont hurt anyone, I hope there wont be billion of dragons again.

mcgslo
09-16-2010, 01:14 AM
I think there should be more races in this game not less... even if you balance perfectly HMM series had great portion of luck (chance) involved. There was luck of how your Hero evolved and what stacks guarded mines, when plague striked, who had dragon utopia or good artifacts near, wich hero could be bought, and Luck/morale skill as well, how many creatures you could gather, etc. . And i think that perfect balance would be boring... i dont wand copy pasted factions. But still rather see more of factions but a bit less balanced than only 5 factions.

So far they said Heaven, Inferno, Necropolis is in the game and 2 "secret" factions on the way.

I wouldnt be surprised if 2 more factions are like in clashes of heroes: (sylvan, Academy)

http://www.facebook.com/photo....=161184829587&ref=mf (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=4520337&fbid=421711179587&id=161184829587&ref=mf)

But Black dragons cant be missed right? so at least 6 factions should be in base game. And like many said more factions on the was with addons. Really for me there is no limit for number of factions included... more faction more is more diversity is game last more.

Botom line 5 factions is definately not right choice. Its still not official how many faction will be... but if they do put only 5 in core game than they should also reashure us that at least 4 more would come with addon.

About Swamp... i stil think that swamp ppl are not Evil... Good or Neutral.

Dragons rock man! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

~McG

Doomcore
09-16-2010, 02:02 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mcgslo:

About Swamp... i stil think that swamp ppl are not Evil... Good or Neutral. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hm, than swap barbarians/stronghold with swamp? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mcgslo:
Dragons rock man! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, they do, but only in Dungeon....and maybe Nature! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

KingImp
09-16-2010, 10:10 AM
Speaking of Neutrals, I sure hope they strongly consider adding way more neutral units than Nival did. Frankly it was pathetic that we only had 9 neutrals while Heroes 3 had 19 neutral units.

Please make sure to give some love to these guys as well.

GoranXII
09-17-2010, 12:53 AM
Hey, H3 only started out with 6 neutrals, although they did add more later (bringing the total to 15 since we got 9 new regular Neutrals and 4 dragons, and still kept the Gold and Diamond Golems). They shouldn't add too many though IMO, give us 6-8 to start with and then add 4-6 per expansion.