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View Full Version : MP doesn't reward stealth enough.



Robanada
04-12-2011, 08:18 PM
About 1 in 10 games are awesome- because everyone plays the game how it's supposed to be played: sneaky. The other 9/10 times, everyone just runs around on the rooftops. Because they can see people like me who try to stick with the crowds and blend in, and because I can't reach them (because they're only running around on the roofs, and I don't want to be obvious/engage in a chase), they always rack up tons of points for sheer volume of kills.

Compounding the problem are that 1) players get rewards for playing like this. Ariel kills and acrobatic kills? These aren't rewarding players for being sneaky! They're rewarding players for playing like asshats. 2) The kill radius is RIDICULOUS. It's like it was designed to make chases easier to end with a kill. I can't tell you how many times i've been headed the opposite way from my attacker, only to have them hit the attack button and instantly cancel my forward motion, and his momentum in the opposite direction to engage in the kill sequence. It's completely implausible, and it makes roof kills all the more easy- if you can stop your prey in their tracks while you fall on them, you're good to go.

In short, the multiplayer is broken- Ubi said it wasn't going to be a free for all, but it is. That's exactly what it is. I bought the game for the mutliplayer, and I really regret it right now.

Also, poison is wayy OP.

Robanada
04-12-2011, 08:18 PM
About 1 in 10 games are awesome- because everyone plays the game how it's supposed to be played: sneaky. The other 9/10 times, everyone just runs around on the rooftops. Because they can see people like me who try to stick with the crowds and blend in, and because I can't reach them (because they're only running around on the roofs, and I don't want to be obvious/engage in a chase), they always rack up tons of points for sheer volume of kills.

Compounding the problem are that 1) players get rewards for playing like this. Ariel kills and acrobatic kills? These aren't rewarding players for being sneaky! They're rewarding players for playing like asshats. 2) The kill radius is RIDICULOUS. It's like it was designed to make chases easier to end with a kill. I can't tell you how many times i've been headed the opposite way from my attacker, only to have them hit the attack button and instantly cancel my forward motion, and his momentum in the opposite direction to engage in the kill sequence. It's completely implausible, and it makes roof kills all the more easy- if you can stop your prey in their tracks while you fall on them, you're good to go.

In short, the multiplayer is broken- Ubi said it wasn't going to be a free for all, but it is. That's exactly what it is. I bought the game for the mutliplayer, and I really regret it right now.

Also, poison is wayy OP.

Acherrum
04-13-2011, 03:12 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Robanada:
About 1 in 10 games are awesome- because everyone plays the game how it's supposed to be played: sneaky. The other 9/10 times, everyone just runs around on the rooftops. Because they can see people like me who try to stick with the crowds and blend in, and because I can't reach them (because they're only running around on the roofs, and I don't want to be obvious/engage in a chase), they always rack up tons of points for sheer volume of kills.

Compounding the problem are that 1) players get rewards for playing like this. Ariel kills and acrobatic kills? These aren't rewarding players for being sneaky! They're rewarding players for playing like asshats. 2) The kill radius is RIDICULOUS. It's like it was designed to make chases easier to end with a kill. I can't tell you how many times i've been headed the opposite way from my attacker, only to have them hit the attack button and instantly cancel my forward motion, and his momentum in the opposite direction to engage in the kill sequence. It's completely implausible, and it makes roof kills all the more easy- if you can stop your prey in their tracks while you fall on them, you're good to go.

In short, the multiplayer is broken- Ubi said it wasn't going to be a free for all, but it is. That's exactly what it is. I bought the game for the mutliplayer, and I really regret it right now.

Also, poison is wayy OP. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

First, you probably need some time to learn the maps and the game to get a working strategy going. I usually won with fewer kills than second place, just because I do play stealthy. I actually often enough go from last place to 2nd or 1st place with 1 or 2 easy/stealthy kills.
Second, this thread has been made tons of times, please use the Find/Search function before posting in the future.

Lignjoslav
04-13-2011, 04:52 AM
The game rewards sneaky play a lot. Kill someone from a crowd or other hiding spot and see how many points you get. Also, staying close enough to your target for a 'focused' bonus and killing without entering high profile is 550 points.

To escape roof predators, stay close to NPCs that look like you, they won't know whom to kill.

Roof targets generally make themselves extremely easy to spot. When you find one, only climb to the roof when near and try not to be seen. They are usually more focused on finding their targets anyway. Also, use hidden gun (which can kill at insane ranges and still give you some stealth bonuses) and throwing knives (can knock a target off a wall).

AntiChrist7
04-13-2011, 09:18 AM
i usually score more points with fewer kills. and offcours, running persuers make it easy to smoke them.

But yeah, i admit i get annoyed when there are roofmonkeys going on. it's for that reason i don't like Mont saint michel, and never play advanced wanted/alliance. i did it a few times, and because of the compass not showing up or down, roofrunning was all the way happening

lockerxzx
04-13-2011, 06:47 PM
if you are stealthy enough in a crowd, runners often kills a wrong target or gets confused

TheLeoCrow
04-14-2011, 04:56 AM
I was in a game with a runner yesterday. He was getting on average 9 kills in each game and i only had 3 kills. I still had more than double the points he had. All in all, i think it's balanced enough. I don't like runners but i think that they are being handled properly

xyx1991
04-15-2011, 07:34 AM
In my opinion Robanada is right. Acrobatic and ariel kills give way to much points. Also if there is just one guy on the roof, he dont need to be very lucky to get first, and then he'll get three persuers and they all climb on houses too to catch him.

R0NI_S
04-15-2011, 08:10 AM
Are you playing standard rules matches or Advanced matches? Because that could be the problem.

Robanada
04-16-2011, 04:37 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Lignjoslav:
The game rewards sneaky play a lot. Kill someone from a crowd or other hiding spot and see how many points you get. Also, staying close enough to your target for a 'focused' bonus and killing without entering high profile is 550 points. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yeah, but how am I supposed to focus when I'm on the roof with them? That involves me running with them, which leads me to ask how I can get incognito kills on the roof- which require high profile to reach (unless it's done without a line of sight). You can't catch them in low profile unless they run right to you, which they'll never do, because they're not stupid.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Lignjoslav:
To escape roof predators, stay close to NPCs that look like you, they won't know whom to kill. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yeah, I got this, but I get 200 points for a lure, great... All the time I spent in the group, they were getting 5 kills each worth 100-300 points.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Lignjoslav:
Roof targets generally make themselves extremely easy to spot. When you find one, only climb to the roof when near and try not to be seen. They are usually more focused on finding their targets anyway. Also, use hidden gun (which can kill at insane ranges and still give you some stealth bonuses) and throwing knives (can knock a target off a wall). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Right, but then I have to either:
a) use the hidden gun (100 points)
b) climb up and get them (no hidden/focus points, plus you're obvious and generally start a chase- also 100 points)
Unless I'm extremely fortuitous, I won't reach the roof while my target is close, because he'll have sprinted away long before. Also, hanging out on the ledge waiting for them is a deathwish- throwing knives to knock me down, hidden gun, or just a pursuer that locks on.

Being on the roof is also a great defensive strategy- anyone that does kill you will only pull ~100 points. That means that if you're the only one playing sneaky, there's no way to get &gt;450 point kills.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Yabab_2:
Are you playing standard rules matches or Advanced matches? Because that could be the problem. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Standard- why?



The other day, I was in a group, and I saw my target walking down an alley. So I broke from my group and fast-walked to catch up (praying I didn't get dropped on). I was about 15 feet away when the guy pops a smoke bomb- I instantly looked for ways around because I knew i couldn't chase him through it. Then I see him bolt straight at me, so I head to intercept, and spam my attack button (SOP when I get anywhere near my target and I'm locked on). Then, with me facing him- he within the attack radius- he stuns me! He gets 200 points for that- he didn't trick me, the game is bugged. When I stun people from the front, 90% of the time they end up killing me anyway. I don't get it. I feel like the game was designed for incredibly aggressive players. I'm just not good at it. I think because I'm trying to play stealthily, and it's incredibly inconsistent, which is really, really frustrating.

This, combined with my cd-key error incident, makes me not want to buy a ubi game ever again. You KNOW there won't be any kind of support for the game- just like when I bought SChttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gifA.

TheLeoCrow
04-17-2011, 09:39 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Robanada:
[...]Then, with me facing him- he within the attack radius- he stuns me! He gets 200 points for that- he didn't trick me, the game is bugged. When I stun people from the front, 90% of the time they end up killing me anyway. I don't get it.[...] </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The reason for that is lag, i'm having similar problems but it's only because of my internet connection, i wouldn't blame the game for that. The game gives priority to killing, not stunning. How many times have i been killed after i had thrown a smoke bomb, or in the middle of the stun animation, or stunned by people i had already poisoned (although i do get the poison points like nothing happened, despite loosing the contract) or even killed by someone who chased me and had timed out (thus losing the contract) a couple seconds too late

Black_Widow9
04-17-2011, 01:44 PM
Please make sure you post this here-
Assassin's Creed Brotherhood Game and DLC Feedback Thread (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/5251069024/m/3131006519)

Robanada
04-17-2011, 04:41 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TheLeoCrow:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Robanada:
[...]Then, with me facing him- he within the attack radius- he stuns me! He gets 200 points for that- he didn't trick me, the game is bugged. When I stun people from the front, 90% of the time they end up killing me anyway. I don't get it.[...] </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The reason for that is lag, i'm having similar problems but it's only because of my internet connection, i wouldn't blame the game for that. The game gives priority to killing, not stunning. How many times have i been killed after i had thrown a smoke bomb, or in the middle of the stun animation, or stunned by people i had already poisoned (although i do get the poison points like nothing happened, despite loosing the contract) or even killed by someone who chased me and had timed out (thus losing the contract) a couple seconds too late </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Lag? Must have been him, then. I'm on a 20mbit connection, so I know I have enough bandwidth. As far as latency... I have no idea because THERE'S NO SERVER BROWSER. Honestly, sometimes I have to wait 10 minutes (not exaggerating- I've timed it) to find a match. And it'd be nice if I could see the host's ping and all, like 95% of the other games out there.

I feel like the entire multiplayer was well conceived, but poorly executed.

A.r.c.h.e.r
04-18-2011, 09:07 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Robanada:
Honestly, sometimes I have to wait 10 minutes (not exaggerating- I've timed it) to find a match. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

10 minutes is nothing. I know other people and I have had to wait for more then 30 minutes to an hour. And still not find a match.

Stealth is key in this game. Most roofers are running around all the time. Sometime they are smart enough to sneak up to you on a roof. But that is a legitimate kill. If they come sprinting up to you that is only a 100-150 point kill. Nothing. Most of the time you could just drop smoke and stun which is 200. That is more then they would have got for killing you. And like others have said just blend with people that look like you. And you should be fine. Also if you are in a match with roofers stay away from building hide in an open area so they have to come to you.
I have won matches with 3-4 high point kills. (And a lot of stuns http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif) I definitely don't think they are given to much of an advantage. It really is just annoying. If I get a contract who is a roofer and he won't come down just kill a civilian. Get a better player as your contract.

R0NI_S
04-18-2011, 01:24 PM
I find Assassinate to be a rather marvelous mode, you don't get targets, you must find them yourself, mark them and then execute them as you normally would in Wanted. It's a real thrill, specially because you can hide pretty well even in blend groups without character models alike you.

Xmbm
04-20-2011, 05:18 AM
I know how you feel. I usually play manhunt and I have the same problem with teammates who I don't know. Sometimes you're just blended in to a group that is heading towards a standing crowd with targets in it and you want that inkognito + hidden + poison bonus and a teammate runs straight at the crowd for a 150 point kill. Well I found ways to counter this.
First of all you gotta know who you're playing with. After one annoying session you can figure ou their style of play. Look around you and know where your teammates are at all times.
Use your rushing teammate as bait. He will propably fail and get stunned, so you gotta time your appearance at the time he's getting stunned so you can go in.
Then there is the situation where most of the hunted are in for one place, except for one or two. Your teammates will head out for the biggest crowd, or simply the next target (play with c and v) so you have to opportunity to solo one player. Take that opportunity and get your high bonus kill.
Use disguise + poison. These two things will get you a 4000+ score when you're attacking, guaranteed. They'll never see you coming.
This is how I get a 7000+ score every time, atleast.