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stalkervision
09-24-2007, 05:56 AM
Does anyone have performance figures for this aircraft equiped with this particular engine?

http://kurfurst.allaboutwarfare.com/Engine/DB60x/DB601_datasheets_N.html

This info is in german and I can't read it.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

stalkervision
09-24-2007, 05:56 AM
Does anyone have performance figures for this aircraft equiped with this particular engine?

http://kurfurst.allaboutwarfare.com/Engine/DB60x/DB601_datasheets_N.html

This info is in german and I can't read it.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

R_Target
09-24-2007, 06:28 AM
K. would probably translate it for you.

stalkervision
09-24-2007, 06:54 AM
Ya maybe he can huh? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

JG53Frankyboy
09-24-2007, 07:09 AM
this info is "only" about engine perfomance - not about a specific plane that used this engine............. so.

stalkervision
09-24-2007, 07:15 AM
I would like all information on the plane/engine combo if I could get it..

Oh and it apparently was fitted to the me-110 so that info would also be great.. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

luftluuver
09-24-2007, 08:58 AM
No E-3s got the N engine from the production line.

E-4s, E-6s and E-7s did and had a '/N' designation. If they had the 601/N and GM1, the designation was '/Z'.

The /N engine had increased revs (2400 to 2600rpm), higher compression (6.7:1 to 8.2:1) and used C3 fuel.

Note that the increase in power was good only for 1 minute.

JG53Frankyboy
09-25-2007, 01:38 AM
but also keep in mind that the "Dauerleistung" (march powersetting) was lao improved.

also the N had overall its power at higher heights , a point not unimportant in fighting at the Channel.

as for planeperformance, in Radinger/Schick's 109 volumes are:
Bf109E-1/-3 with DB601Aa
at SL 460km/h
at 6000m 550km/h

Bf109T-2 with DB601N
at SL 490km/h
at 6000m 575km/h (and this with 2400prm)
with 2600rpm it has 565km/h at 4000m (555km/h with 2400rpm at this height)

this T-2 has the bigger wingspan (11,08m istead of 9,9m)) , but no other carrier equipment.

Kurfurst__
09-25-2007, 02:06 AM
There were 1 Gruppe (3 Squadrons) of Bf 109 and a rather large proportion of the 110s, 3 Gruppen (ie. ~ 9 Squadrons) was equipped with DB 601N engines. Initially the 601N was available in limited numbers (1200 or so in July IIRC), and the 110s enjoyed priority for conversion purposes, and of course Bf 109F production just started in July, seeing action first in October.

Obviously later that year the policy has changed, since on the 1st January 1941, there were a total 112 Bf 109E with DB 601N present in service, plus 5 Bf 109F, and 153 Bf 110s with DB 601N present in service. In addition 4 He 111P, 32 Do 215 bombers had the DB 601N. The actual number of Emils with the /N suffix is difficult to say, since the vast majority of them were converted from existing, 'normal' DB 601A powered airframes. Therefore they don't show up in the factory production figures I have.

Unfortunately I do not have information on /N powered Emils performance, part from the figures posted by JG53Frankyboy (on which basis 590 km/h top speed at the max 5 min rating would seem reasonable) ,but the power curves are available and from those, performances would be probably easy to calculated based on existing Emil performance figures.

JG53Frankyboy
09-25-2007, 02:20 AM
do you mean only 3 Groups (out of the 9 Groups + 2 Squadrons out of the Erp.Grp. 210) of Bf110 during BoB had 110C- /N ?

Kurfurst__
09-25-2007, 02:33 AM
Not during BoB, at the start of BoB. The '3 Gruppen converted so far' is mentioned on the Generalluftzeugmeister meeting on 19 July 1940. 110 at the time were to have priority for DB 601N engines.

JG53Frankyboy
09-25-2007, 02:44 AM
yep, found it on page 25 in the Mankau book http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

they are speaking about 280 engines in service in total.
now less the 40 engines for the sole 109 group with 601N.
it leaves 240 for the 110s, thats 120 planes, perfect number for 3 Groups (40 planes each) http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif


btw, are you sure the shown 100octan Emil is one of JG4 ? because it has a Schlageter symbol (JG26) on its fuselage. and JG4 was no BoB wing http://www.ww2.dk/air/jagd/jg4.htm ........... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Kurfurst__
09-25-2007, 03:02 AM
Not sure at all, just copy-pasted the information from the book the picture came from : Kenneth A. Merrick : German Aircraft Interiors 1935-1945. Monogram Aviation Publications. ISBN: 0914144413 .

The info looks quite detailed though, perhaps a swapped plane from another unit..?

The Mankau book is excellent for sure !
For August 1940, Wood and Dampster notes something like 280 Bf 110s employed against Britain, so it seems about half of the 110s had DB 601N during the BoB. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

JG53Frankyboy
09-25-2007, 03:28 AM
anyway, it cant be JG4, because there was no JG4 in 1940....................


about 110 units, August 1940:
Stab,I,II,III/ZG26
Stab,I,II,III/ZG76 (I in Norway)
Stab,I,II/ZG2
V(Z)/LG1
+
1.&2. /Erp.Grp 210

i belive the Generalluftzeugmeister (GL) always thought about full strength when speaking abut Units ( http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif ), thats 40 planes for one Bf110 Group - so , it would be 1/3 of 110s with 601N engines, in August.



btw

http://www.franky.fliegerhospital.de/Leistung%20Bf109E-3.jpg

http://www.franky.fliegerhospital.de/Leistung%20Bf109T-2.jpg

stalkervision
09-25-2007, 05:51 AM
Excellent information guys. I am really enjoying reading it! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif Absolutely great stuff here..

luftluuver
09-25-2007, 08:19 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Kurfurst__:
Not during BoB, at the start of BoB. The '3 Gruppen converted so far' is mentioned on the Generalluftzeugmeister meeting on 19 July 1940. 110 at the time were to have priority for DB 601N engines. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>What 109 and 110 units were equiped with /N engines?

JG53Frankyboy
09-25-2007, 10:20 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by luftluuver:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Kurfurst__:
Not during BoB, at the start of BoB. The '3 Gruppen converted so far' is mentioned on the Generalluftzeugmeister meeting on 19 July 1940. 110 at the time were to have priority for DB 601N engines. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>What 109 and 110 units were equiped with /N engines? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

the 109 unit was most propably one of the JG26 groups (as Kurfürst's picture is showing one from JG26 Schlageter- unfortunatly you cant see if there is a tactical group marking left right of the fuselage cross..........).
about the 110s, i have no idea

JG53Frankyboy
09-25-2007, 10:36 AM
i have easily found the "history" of this plane via google http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
http://les_butler.drivehq.com/jg26/white4_peter.htm

well, its from II./JG26 , so, its not unlikely that the DB601N equipted BF109E group in august 40 was the II./JG26 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Kurfurst__
09-25-2007, 06:20 PM
EXCELLENT ! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

stalkervision
09-25-2007, 09:05 PM
absolutely great site... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/partyhat.gif

JG53Frankyboy
11-16-2007, 01:32 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by luftluuver:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Kurfurst__:
Not during BoB, at the start of BoB. The '3 Gruppen converted so far' is mentioned on the Generalluftzeugmeister meeting on 19 July 1940. 110 at the time were to have priority for DB 601N engines. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>What 109 and 110 units were equiped with /N engines? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

these three mentioned Bf110 units were:
II./ZG26
III./ZG26
II./ZG76

JtD
11-17-2007, 04:02 AM
Interesting. Thanks guys.

Wonder what type of 109/110 we will have in SoW:BoB. Sure hope we get both, A & N. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif