PDA

View Full Version : Vote!Less aircraft and excelent quality or More aircraft and less quality?



Hptm.Keule
12-26-2004, 11:54 AM

Hptm.Keule
12-26-2004, 11:54 AM

GvSAP_Dart
12-26-2004, 12:16 PM
I want both.

After all, we have both in the IL-2 series, why not in BoB?

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/heart.gif

Bull_dog_
12-26-2004, 02:57 PM
Neither...I don't subscribe to the Tyranny of OR...neither should anyone. You can have both but first you have to expect it

Bearcat99
12-26-2004, 08:41 PM
As far as I am concerned we already have both. I dont know of any other sim whith as diverse a planeset or as dynamic FMs/DMs or such incredible graphics.

BSS_Vidar
12-26-2004, 09:03 PM
I choose quality, which is also one of the reasons I wanted PF to be stand-alone. Once we get pure PF servers going, I'll be a much happier man.

VF-29_Sandman
12-26-2004, 09:25 PM
u know that'll never happen vidar. there will always be some shmuck whinin.....where's my 109/190/la-7, etc

WUAF_Badsight
12-26-2004, 09:30 PM
less flyables in the next Gen game B-O-B

more accuracy in the coming nexr gen game B-O-B

wish granted

WWMaxGunz
12-27-2004, 12:19 AM
When Oleg announced BoB he stated that there would be few models but much higher detail.
Since when does that become a voting thing? Is everything for vote these years? No matter
for the outcome of the sim anyway, the result was decided long ago. But these vote things
leave some kind of impression of customers in control of what we are not and that leaves
the door open for... well idiocy knows few bounds.

Let's have a vote to stop the frivolous vote-threads!

Lukki
12-27-2004, 02:57 AM
I'm gamer, pure and simple. I like unrealistic views, but realistic machines and ammo. As far as I'm concerned, we need flyable 109s&190s, flyable Zeppelins and playable flak turrets. I couldn't care less for spits..Hurricanes are nice to fly though. For bombing I prfer Ju-87, He-111 and maybe Mosquito or Ju-88. Depends on the bombload really. I like dropping huge bombs like SC1800. Breaks a carrier in half, well, almost. Then again, I like flying He-162, too, because it is fast. Me262 is much more clumsier and slower. And I definitely would like to try an asymmetric plane from BV.

My 2 cents. That's never going to happen though, I think. I'd vote for quantity and variety and rich environment. The detail of the IL-2 FMs is mostly enough for me.

Hptm.Keule
12-27-2004, 05:14 AM
Bull_dog_ :
__________________________________________________ ______________
Neither...I don't subscribe to the Tyranny of OR...neither should anyone. You can have both but first you have to expect it
__________________________________________________ ______________

Bull_dog_, You can expect everything, but not everything is possible!
I like both too...but there is huuuuuuuuuge work to be done!
Which is not realistic enough...I am affraid!
I prefer the quality, becose only the quality can bring to us the feeling of reality.

Anyway thank You!
R!

Oleg_Maddox
12-27-2004, 08:43 AM
I would say we will have way less aircraft in the intial release of BoB. Simply becasue of more detialed things for each aircraft modeling.... Which means time and resources that we may spend for that modeling.

However we will expand the BoB by the way as it is done with the PF... means install stand alone new sim or install this new sim over BoB and to get new experinece....

This is more life-able idea... and for more longer life of the sim on the market...

As well as we like to go by two branches - Single + online with linmited online features and only online sim branch simultaniosly, where on dedicated server will be new events and wars regulating by developer/publisher. It is jut an idea for you in which way we directed now. Not all may happen, but it is ideal thing for which we force all our resources in future, where you will be able to control not only the planes.

p1ngu666
12-27-2004, 09:07 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Oleg_Maddox:
I would say we will have way less aircraft in the intial release of BoB. Simply becasue of more detialed things for each aircraft modeling.... Which means time and resources that we may spend for that modeling.

However we will expand the BoB by the way as it is done with the PF... means install stand alone new sim or install this new sim over BoB and to get new experinece....

This is more life-able idea... and for more longer life of the sim on the market...

As well as we like to go by two branches - Single + online with linmited online features and only online sim branch simultaniosly, where on dedicated server will be new events and wars regulating by developer/publisher. It is jut an idea for you in which way we directed now. Not all may happen, but it is ideal thing for which we force all our resources in future, where you will be able to control not only the planes. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

good plan oleg http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Capt._Tenneal
12-27-2004, 10:24 AM
I second that. Good news indeed. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Copperhead310th
12-27-2004, 10:44 AM
Oleg,
you say that there are already plans to expand on BoB the same as with PF....but where possibly could you exapand it?
In other words what i'm really asking is
with the loss of any NEW USAAF aircraft in Pacific Fighters would it be possible at some point to see P-40's, P-38's, P-47's, P-51's and P-61's in the BoB line at some point?
Unfoutuantly BoB will hold little intrest for me at release for the lack of US aircraft.
Too early in the war for US envolvment. And those are the plane that intrest me most.
Therefore the question in my mind is simply will we ever see US types in the BoB line or is BoB just something for the Euro market?

Von_Zero
12-27-2004, 11:21 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Copperhead310th:
Oleg,
you say that there are already plans to expand on BoB the same as with PF....but where possibly could you exapand it?
In other words what i'm really asking is
with the loss of any NEW USAAF aircraft in Pacific Fighters would it be possible at some point to see P-40's, P-38's, P-47's, P-51's and P-61's in the BoB line at some point?
Unfoutuantly BoB will hold little intrest for me at release for the lack of US aircraft.
Too early in the war for US envolvment. And those are the plane that intrest me most.
Therefore the question in my mind is simply will we ever see US types in the BoB line or is BoB just something for the Euro market? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

was Il2 Sturmovik something just for russian/german market? I doubt Us won't buy it just because there aren't any US planes... I don't mean to offend anyone, but that is plain stupid. Why was Il2 and why was FB so loved, even by other ppl? Because it was the best. There will be the same thing with BoB for sure. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Capt._Tenneal
12-27-2004, 12:00 PM
I'm sort of in your camp Copperhead. I like the other nations' planes too (especially the different Axis variants), but yeah if there will be ZERO chance of US involvement, then it will be a sticking point. But I'm confident Oleg and UBI will have learned from their experience in PF and have all their legal ducks in a row, so to speak.

Bull_dog_
12-27-2004, 12:04 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Hptm.Keule:
Bull_dog_ :
__________________________________________________ ______________
Neither...I don't subscribe to the Tyranny of OR...neither should anyone. You can have both but first you have to expect it
__________________________________________________ ______________

Bull_dog_, You can expect everything, but not everything is possible!
I like both too...but there is huuuuuuuuuge work to be done!
Which is not realistic enough...I am affraid!
I prefer the quality, becose only the quality can bring to us the feeling of reality.

Anyway thank You!
R! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You obviously don't expect it so yours will be a self fulfilling prophecy...the only thing that is unrealistic is breaking the laws of physics.

There are things that are possible, but not practical...at least in the way we think about them now. It is the expectation of everything that generates the ingenuity, will and creativity which is required to overcome self imposed barriers to thinking.

Take for instance this sim... Oleg trades detail for quanity. The life of this sim is not predicated on the number of virtual rivets in an aircraft or the number of unseen struts but rather the immersion and joy it creates for people. A quality sim starts with the flying experience and the gamers interaction with the game or other people online...think about that instead of how many polygons make up an aircraft. The polygons are important, but I get much more frustrated at having my wings fall off in a high speed dive, compressibility modelled improperly for two aircraft, my AI wingmen stealing my kills, the lack of a truly powerful mission builder or AAA locking up my game...kinda similar to understanding frame rates...doesn't matter if you have 40 or 4000, we are only so perceptive...just don't let it fluctuate down below 20 or stutter and we will have a high quality resolution...right?


Enough said...I have lots of practical experience and in fact, have made a good living at doing things that people say can't be done.

Chuck_Older
12-27-2004, 03:30 PM
IF I had to choose, of course it would be higher quality with fewer flyable planes

But of course, this is Life, not some dumb rulebook, so if there are no other constraints, I gotta agree with Bulldog's mentality. You never start out trying to compromise, you should always try to be 'perfect'. You'll fall short, but more often than not, people prove themselves to be clever and figure out how to do some nifty stuff that they might not have, if they had less expectation

Atomic_Marten
12-27-2004, 03:33 PM
I think that the number of a/c is have close to zero impact on quality.

WWMaxGunz
12-27-2004, 04:09 PM
What Oleg says... first release, fewer planes. With time, more.

With time we have both Q's. Patience!

I agree entirely with Von Zero about US market does not equate to US planes.
Lots of US fans of the original IL2! Many squads converted just on the demo alone!
It is just time that some US people expanded their selves a bit maybe? But that is
not all of us by any means with our heads stuck inside our borders or smaller yet,
our own lives. People are really much the same everywhere, which is varied in the
extreme! Only some will make stereotypes for any large populations, just please
leave me and mine out of those.

Bearcat99
12-27-2004, 05:19 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Copperhead310th:
Oleg,
you say that there are already plans to expand on BoB the same as with PF....but where possibly could you exapand it?
In other words what i'm really asking is
with the loss of any NEW USAAF aircraft in Pacific Fighters would it be possible at some point to see P-40's, P-38's, P-47's, P-51's and P-61's in the BoB line at some point?
Unfoutuantly BoB will hold little intrest for me at release for the lack of US aircraft.
Too early in the war for US envolvment. And those are the plane that intrest me most.
Therefore the question in my mind is simply will we ever see US types in the BoB line or is BoB just something for the Euro market? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well I bought IL2 with just a P-39 and I was wowed... so the lack of American planes wont bother me. Sure I will want them under the new FMs ... just as I wanted them when I first got IL2.... but they werent there and I learned to appreciate the La-5s and the Yaks..... and now I have Mustangs....P-38s.... P-40s.... Jugs... B-25s...Corsairs.. Wildcats.. Hell Cats..... For me it is all about the sim exerience.... and when I first got IL2 the quality of the sim itself was what made it a no brainer for me to leave what was familiar to me and go with something new. It was new and unfamiliar... but it was better. Now it is great. So... Ill be buying BoB regardless.

crazyivan1970
12-27-2004, 05:23 PM
Cooper don`t lie to yourself, you will be in your sleeping bag by the door of EB games, night before BOB is released. Wanna bet http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

knightflyte
12-27-2004, 09:56 PM
"You never start out trying to compromise, you should always try to be 'perfect'. You'll fall short, but more often than not, people prove themselves to be clever and figure out how to do some nifty stuff that they might not have, if they had less expectation"

But that is the point precisely, Chuck Older and Bulldog. Doing something as well as you can.... striving for perfection IS what is being accomplished.

I am looking forward to BOB. I have NO doubt it will fulfill Olegs desires. With IL2 STILL doing well on so many computers, thus giving it an added lifespan I wouldn't mind a bit of a wait for it to be JUST as his vision dictates.

That may mean starting small... with a small plane set and maps, but with the little details being worked out to the Enth degree that will permitt ADD ONS that will have the same...(or as we ARE used to getting)...BETTER FM/DM Skins Maps...and on and on.

Realize your dream by starting small. Perfect it. Then make it truely what you envision. That's what I think Oleg is attempting.

I realize this doesn't fit into the context of the poll.... but I also think the poll doesn't fit into the context of what Oleg has palnned.

regards,
Robert

Once you go Track... you never go back.

Copperhead310th
12-27-2004, 10:21 PM
@ Ivan

Well not if i have to buy a new system Ivan and from what i've read my current rig will not support the high end specs that will most likley be required for BoB.

@ Bear

Well keep in mind bearcat that in march our squadron will be selibrating it's 4th year online. we've been there too. we started out as a pacific USAAF squad flying Russian lend lease P-39's...it just took 3 odd years for the rest of the sim to catch up with us. (pat myself on the back for haveing the forsight to see where the sim would end up)
Now i love the eastern front & the IL-2 is my farvorite Russain aircraft.(because of the original sim) So those that want to call me small minded & nationalistic should really check thier attitudes at the door and kiss my red, white and blue..................

The US aircraft are a favorite among my self and our squad members. and as a whole we have little interst in the aircraft of the other countires involved. one of my personal favoite aircraft other than the USAAF planes i love is the FW-190A-3 that we don't have in this sim.
But because we don't have it and we have MOST of my favorite us types then that is where i spend my time. I would like to be the best p-47 pilot online...doubtfull that will happen.... but that's why i stick with it. not just cause i love that plane the most. same as with the 109 & 190 pilots. they spend the time in them.
that is where thier intrests lie. i have other aircraft in the sim that i like a great deal...but they are by no means my favorites. while apreacite the other aircraft in the sim they do not hold the same level of intrest as the US aircraft. the fact that i'm from the US should have little to do with what i like or don't like. It's just a matter of personal interst. I would supose that i tend to love them beacuse all my hero's flew these aircraft... Richard Bong, Kit Carson, Chappie James, Chuck Yeager, Papy Boyington, Bob Johnson ect. Same as with the Axis fans i would guess. there sure as hell seems to be enough of them running around useing the name "Hartman" online. Not forgetting the fact that my grandfather served with the 20th Airforce in WWII as the flight eng. on a B-24C-109 tanker hauling fuel over the hump for the Superforts and worked on a lot of differant aircraft in the 20 + years he spent in the USAAF. (Us Army air corps when he joined.) and i grew up hearing all about these guys and thier exploits. by the age of 7 i knew US WWII pilots better than most kids my age knew Major leauge baseball players. I was the only kid i knew that actually new what a b-24, P-47, F-86 even was..not to mention knowing as much as granddad would pass down about them machanically.
See my point there?

Aside from all of that including personal interst, i am the person in charge of 3 online squadrons. Our 25+ members are looking to me for direction as to where we go in regards to BoB. Most have made their feelings known to me that with out any US aircraft there is little intrest in BoB. and again we all relaize that there were (historicaly speaking) NO US aircraft involved in the battle of britan. so in the sim there should be none. But as Commanding Officer of the 3 groups i have to make a desiction on where we go with this. Do we conteinue on with FB/PF untill BoB catches up with us? or do we as a group jump headlong into BoB with little hope that thier will be anything remotely close to our group intesest.
So i'm not speaking for the entire US just my self, 25 or so ppl in our little group.
But the question still needs to be asked.
If anyone here wants to bite my head off for it so be it. I have to look after my own intests and that of my squadron. it's obvois that none of the Axis Squadrons are going to ask the question. they allready KNOW they will be involved.

I'm going to cut this off here in order to remain civil. happy new year.

clint-ruin
12-27-2004, 10:27 PM
Copperhead - if the P-39 was enough for you for a while in Il2 it may be enough for you in BOB. They were there around the same timeframe as the other aircraft we've seen in coming in BOB so far and I would be surprised if there's not at least a token nod to the US audience in the new sim. Don't know for sure that they'll be there in the release of course, but I'd be amused if we get autogyros and not the airacobra :&gt;

WWMaxGunz
12-27-2004, 11:04 PM
There was the Tomahawk at some point. I think that those and the Cobras were not in the
BoB though, or at least never ever saw, heard or read of such. The Brits did like the
P-40's though, unlike the P-39's. Consider how the Mustang contract originated.
So if the BoB sequel addons go in historic sequence then before many other planes there
would be Tomahawks, trademarks permitting.

I'd rather have at least some plane not being "the usual crowd". Some, yes for many good
reasons, but not the same sets and no else how it used to be. And if it means leave some
US planes out that have already been done to death, and not having every 109 made in there
then I don't mind. I think that just on addons it could take a few to widen the actual
BoB coverage and include Dornier bombers, Fairey Battles and a small range of the planes
that saw the end of the Battle for France even. I've yet to fly a good sim with the French
fighters, like the D.520 and M.S.406 (well, the Morko Moranni is a converted Morane 406
with a Klimov engine...). Depending on odds and situation, they may even win fights.

Flying_Marduk
12-28-2004, 01:35 AM
Oleg, I agree to your plan 100%.
That's what I really hope.

I've played mainly with single campaigns, and piloted just 5-6 planes. I want you to know this fact : While you added almost 100 flyable aircrafts in the sim, offline players like me are piloting 10 a/c's at most.

I'm not trying to say that your efforts of including so many flyables is worthless. I want to say that there is big difference between what offline players want and what online players want. I really want enjoyable, immersive and variable dynamic campaign missions and surprising AI behaviors. I dont want 100+ flyables.

Very pleasant with your plan. Thanx so much. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Hptm.Keule
12-28-2004, 02:11 AM
Thank You very much Oleg!
It seems You are realy, realy smart!
Good plan!That is optimal!
I am sure BoB will bring new standards in Flight sims.
I am with You!
I wish to You success in managing this wonderfull project!
Take care!
Regards!

TheJoyStick
12-28-2004, 02:58 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bearcat99:
As far as I am concerned we already have both. I dont know of any other sim whith as diverse a planeset or as dynamic FMs/DMs or such incredible graphics. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Mmmk.. We're the best.. Why stop there?


Hey, look at me.. My turbojet goes 23MPH faster than theirs..

Why stop there? I want my turbojet to go 2300 miles per hour faster than theirs.. But, why stop there?

I want my turbojet to go 40804579328752345 miles per hour faster than theirs.



Il2 is the best, but it's not the best it can be.

clint-ruin
12-28-2004, 03:16 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WWMaxGunz:
There was the Tomahawk at some point. I think that those and the Cobras were not in the
BoB though, or at least never ever saw, heard or read of such. The Brits did like the
P-40's though, unlike the P-39's. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

P-39c was in service sometime around October 41, but very quickly withdrawn due to the LW coming in massively higher than the 39's critical alt and some very annoying mechanical problems - compass would apparently stop working after firing off the guns, cockpit filled with smoke, problems with the prop pitch system, etc. Probably the worst model P-39 thrown into the worst possible type of engagements for the type. Should be an interesting fight against the 109Fs :&gt;

NorrisMcWhirter
12-29-2004, 11:42 AM
Hi,

Just reading The Big Show (Clostermann) and there is a quote regarding the P-39 being regarded by pilots of the time to be 'unsuitable' (i.e. not good enough) for the Western European theatre at that time.

For me, the BoB couldn't be better; it initially encompasses British aircraft (I'm British) and LW planes (favourite WW2 aircraft) so, providing that my interest hasn't waned sufficiently because of PF's pandering, then I'd be in line to buy it.

In fact, it will be nice to get back to basics where we can have a small number of accurately depicted aircraft rather than the mess we have now.

Cheers,
Norris

JG7_Rall
12-30-2004, 07:36 AM
I love the idea of a online war type of deal. But unless I'm misunderstanding this, we'd have to pay, right? Oleg, how much do you think it would be per month?

Moka.21
12-30-2004, 08:20 AM
I´m all for quality, but if BoB allows 3rd party
skins, it will also give some important variety, for me atleast: flying my Morane-Saulnier 406/410 with blue swastikas on would be great!

Bearcat99
12-30-2004, 08:23 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TheJoyStick:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bearcat99:
As far as I am concerned we already have both. I dont know of any other sim whith as diverse a planeset or as dynamic FMs/DMs or such incredible graphics. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Mmmk.. We're the best.. Why stop there?


Hey, look at me.. My turbojet goes 23MPH faster than theirs..

Why stop there? I want my turbojet to go 2300 miles per hour faster than theirs.. But, why stop there?

I want my turbojet to go 40804579328752345 miles per hour faster than theirs.



Il2 is the best, but it's not the best it can be. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

From your quote I think you misunderstood me. Im not saying that 1C should rest on their laurels. What I am saying is that if BoB comes out as a 8 plane sim then it is not a problem....for me. Because I see what was done with the IL2 series and I think that in about 3 years after the release of BoB we will have a similar situation....only better. As far as the 332nd VFG? We arent even thinking about BoB at this point. We are too busy enjoying the h@ll out of what we have to even consider a product that is @ 18+ months away in any other context than a passing thought.

TheJoyStick
12-30-2004, 09:20 AM
Erm, ok then.. If that's the case, I'd be happy with 4 or 5 planes to start.

Hptm.Keule
12-30-2004, 03:21 PM
Only the Quality gives to us the feeling of relity!


http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
"Stand by : 10.30 enemy concentrations in map reference sector
Dora Dora.
Jever's takeoff : 10.55
Landing with parachutes near Jever : 11.26 (31 minutes)"
Heinz Knocke's War Diary

Hptm.Keule
12-30-2004, 03:22 PM
Only the Quality gives to us the feeling of reality!


http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
"Stand by : 10.30 enemy concentrations in map reference sector
Dora Dora.
Jever's takeoff : 10.55
Landing with parachutes near Jever : 11.26 (31 minutes)"
Heinz Knocke's War Diary

necrobaron
12-31-2004, 01:05 AM
If I can afford a PC that can actually play BoB to any reasonable degree, I'll probably get it.

While I find BoB interesting (like I find just about all other aspects of WWII), I would've preferred a theater that has never or rarely been done (such as a MTO sim). The main selling point of BoB for me as of now isn't the Battle itself but rather the greatly improved level of detail in FM,graphics,etc. it will supposedly have. Conversely, I also like to have a large and varied stable of birds to fly. I especially have a soft spot for the underdogs and the generally overlooked birds.

LEXX_Luthor
12-31-2004, 06:19 PM
Flying_Marduk:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> While you added almost 100 flyable aircrafts in the sim, offline players like me are piloting 10 a/c's at most. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
But they pilot different a/c than the your 10 Favorite.

Take out your Fave 10 planes -- for More Quality of course http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif then we talk.

WWMaxGunz
01-01-2005, 03:09 PM
Ha! Take your 4 least favorite only but all of them modelled to a well higher degree in
look, feel and action... I bet you still like it! Even if I-15, Stuka, Pzl and Me-110!

LOL!

LEXX_Luthor
01-01-2005, 06:09 PM
Just do one plane and you get even More Quality.

but that's so 1990s

WWMaxGunz
01-02-2005, 06:29 AM
In the 80's I had sims with 1 to I think 3 flyables. It's been a while, seems long ago
at times. Best one I had was Bob Dinnermans' F/A-18 on the Amiga, IMO. Falcon 1 was
also good for the times, I might ever have been able to land that once on full realism.
I think it was Falcon 1.