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View Full Version : Hunting FW-190's in a P-51....



Copperhead310th
07-12-2007, 12:07 AM
Is just about like this:
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n206/strider_07/GotHimOnTheRunMtnsA.jpg

Seriously.

Copperhead310th
07-12-2007, 12:07 AM
Is just about like this:
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n206/strider_07/GotHimOnTheRunMtnsA.jpg

Seriously.

KIMURA
07-12-2007, 12:10 AM
If I have to chose between both a/c, I'll take the P-51 anytime. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

La7_brook
07-12-2007, 12:31 AM
If I have to chose between both a/c, i would take 190 every time http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

Whirlin_merlin
07-12-2007, 12:42 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Copperhead310th:
Is just about like this:
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n206/strider_07/GotHimOnTheRunMtnsA.jpg

Seriously. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sure is.......if you're rubbish.

Manu-6S
07-12-2007, 01:10 AM
I don't understand the meaning of the picture... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/sadeyes.gif

WOLFPLAYER2007
07-12-2007, 01:23 AM
Me too

Stuntie
07-12-2007, 01:44 AM
Right in the six of a phantom with those huge red hot exhausts with two what look like R60 advanced IR missles.

Easy meat doesn't get any better than that.

Edit: And he's not even punched off the tanks, so he'll be G limited as well http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

I.JG27_Wotan
07-12-2007, 01:45 AM
Hunting a P-51 in a FW-190 is the same.

msalama
07-12-2007, 01:49 AM
*YAWN*

Well I ain't buying this whine anymore myself.

Now might be I'm not a fighter jock of any calibre myself - which BTW isn't any wonder since my preference has always been bombers / ground attack AC anyway, Red or Blue - but I've seen enough folks do brilliantly OL w/ the 'stang to NOT believe most of this BS about it...

Oh, a nice bait BTW http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

F19_Orheim
07-12-2007, 02:30 AM
http://www.easimovals.co.uk/Assets/Images/crybaby.jpg

Feathered_IV
07-12-2007, 05:32 AM
http://users.adelphia.net/~aattoun/Horse_***.jpg

Seriously

Bremspropeller
07-12-2007, 05:56 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Right in the six of a phantom with those huge red hot exhausts with two what look like R60 advanced IR missles.

Easy meat doesn't get any better than that.

Edit: And he's not even punched off the tanks, so he'll be G limited as well </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Doesn't even matter, as the 190 is closer than min-range.

Given the fact, the 51 seemingly doesn't have a gun, those two R-73 (!) won't do anything.


The 51 is just seconds away fron being jetwashed by the 190.
190 ftw, hands down http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

Bremspropeller
07-12-2007, 06:05 AM
http://www.916-starfighter.de/916starfighter/cartoons/sure16.jpg

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

luftluuver
07-12-2007, 06:40 AM
I see the cartoon as saying the P-51 is over modelled in Il-2.

Manu-6S
07-12-2007, 07:35 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by luftluuver:
I see the cartoon as saying the P-51 is over modelled in Il-2. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ah ok.. then I disagree... are the Antons who are undermodelled http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

luftluuver
07-12-2007, 07:58 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Manu-6S:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by luftluuver:
I see the cartoon as saying the P-51 is over modelled in Il-2. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ah ok.. then I disagree... are the Antons who are undermodelled http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>That is another way of looking at it but....

P-51 &gt; stick a/c
Fw190 &gt; Phantom

Obvious that if a 'stick a/c'(P-51) can take care of a 'Phantom'(190), the 'stick a/c'(P-51) is over modelled.

crazyivan1970
07-12-2007, 10:47 AM
Got pwned again, eh Copper? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/compsmash.gif

luftluuver
07-12-2007, 11:16 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by crazyivan1970:
Got pwned again, eh Copper? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/compsmash.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>See Ivan, I can make posts other than on the 109 when BS is posted. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Copperhead310th
07-12-2007, 07:12 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by crazyivan1970:
Got pwned again, eh Copper? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/compsmash.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gifHiyas Ivan. Come on over & sit a spell. dangle your feet in the water bro. Here's a cold one. fishing here is awsome. lol but i'm afraid i'm out of bait. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

Caught a few whopers though. Maybe we should go over tio Bearcats. i hear he's havign a fish fry. lol

waffen-79
07-12-2007, 08:24 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by La7_brook:
If I have to chose between both a/c, i would take 190 every time http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

+1 BE SURE http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif

HayateAce
07-12-2007, 09:15 PM
In Oleg world 190, in real life I go with the winner. Better turner and performer.

Too bad the F4U didn't get its fair shot at the 190, would have been even more lopsided.

http://www.jetplanes.co.uk/vintageaircraft/mustangandcorsairformation12cm.jpg

VW-IceFire
07-12-2007, 09:48 PM
Depends...I'd take the D-9 if we're talking low altitude scrap in the weeds sort of fighting. If its anything else then the P-51 is the plane of choice.

woofiedog
07-13-2007, 02:02 AM
HayateAce... Quote... F4U didn't get its fair shot at the 190

But the Hellcat had it's chance to sling it out with the Fw-190 over Norway... and Kicked some Tail End! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Successful attack in Operation Tungsten of 3 April 1944 on the Tirpitz in Kaa Fjord, North Norway by 827 and 830 squadron Barracuda dive-bombers from HMS Furious and HMS Victorious and supported by the 7th Naval Fighter Wing including 800, 804, 881, 896, 882, and 898 fighter sqdns

Royal Navy Hellcat I's (F6F-3) from 800 squadron were involved in escorting Barracuda attacks on the german battleship Tirpitz from April to August 1944 in Alta Fjord, Norway. One of these operations, on 8 May 1944, the Luftwaffe fighters flew up to protect the battleship. Some of the 800 squadron Hellcats from HMS Emperor went to attack the German aircraft and shot down 1 Fw-190 and two Bf-109G fighters. The Hellcats suffered one loss to the Luftwaffe and another to anti-aircraft fire. Sub Lt. B. Richie claimed the Focke-Wulf and went on to claim a total of 6 kills, becoming one of only a few Royal Navy Hellcat aces.

woofiedog
07-13-2007, 02:13 AM
Don't want to muddy up the Bf-109's Shining Armor... But the good old Wildcat had a hand in the Soup also. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

On 26 March 1945, in a last action, FM-2's from 882 Squadron
Lieut Comdr. GAM Flood, RNVR) off Searcher, escorting a flight of
Avengers along the coast of Norway, was attacked by a flight of
eight III Gruppe JG 5 Me-109Gs. The Wildcats (now called
"Wildcat" instead of "Martlet" as the FAA adopts the USN names
for carrier aircraft) shot down four of the Me-109Gs at a cost of
one Wildcat damaged. A fifth 109 was claimed as damaged.

mynameisroland
07-13-2007, 03:19 AM
Woofie Id be willing to bet that that was because the FAA pilots were just plain better than their opponents during this encounter. Performance wise the Hellcat would be up against it in a day in day out set of combat operations against the Fw 190 and Bf 109. Just my opinion too.

zunzun
07-13-2007, 04:18 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mynameisroland:
Woofie Id be willing to bet that that was because the FAA pilots were just plain better than their opponents during this encounter. Performance wise the Hellcat would be up against it in a day in day out set of combat operations against the Fw 190 and Bf 109. Just my opinion too. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That is the point. Performance is only half of the picture. Strategy, tactics and combat skill is the other half (if not more).

woofiedog
07-13-2007, 04:28 AM
mynameisroland & zunzun... Givin that both the Hellcat and Wildcat should be the underdog aircraft in those encounters with the Bf-109 and Fw-190. Seems the pilots in the cockpits was the factor that mattered the most at the end of the day.

JG4_Helofly
07-13-2007, 06:47 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by HayateAce:
In Oleg world 190, in real life I go with the winner. Better turner and performer.

Too bad the F4U didn't get its fair shot at the 190, would have been even more lopsided.

http://www.jetplanes.co.uk/vintageaircraft/mustangandcorsairformation12cm.jpg </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Realy? Then you would go 100% with the 190 in RL because in "Olegs World" the 190 has some problems with roll rate and turn time. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

But of course, the mustang won teh war. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

R_Target
07-13-2007, 09:03 AM
The last time I looked into the 8 May action, I couldn't find an Fw 190 lost on that day, but the two Bf-109's were (JG5?). The FAA pilots would have been flying Hellcat I's without ADI also, so the German planes would definitely have a speed advantage. Good show RN.

luftluuver
07-13-2007, 10:49 AM
LW units and their bases in Norway, http://www.nuav.net/ooblw.html

faustnik
07-13-2007, 11:11 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mynameisroland:
Performance wise the Hellcat would be up against it in a day in day out set of combat operations against the Fw 190 and Bf 109. Just my opinion too. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hellcats had advantages in turn ability over the LW planes. Their high altitude performance was also very good. Couple that with the toughness of any Grumman aircraft and you have a tough opponent for any contemporary fighter.

Alloy007P
07-13-2007, 11:52 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Copperhead310th:
Is just about like this:
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n206/strider_07/GotHimOnTheRunMtnsA.jpg

Seriously. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No I would say it's the other way around. like this. http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z149/Alloy007P/Spit.gif

The p-51 would clearly be the winner

Copperhead310th
07-13-2007, 07:41 PM
for dioblo

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/49310655/m/506...531014375#5531014375 (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/49310655/m/5061009175?r=5531014375#5531014375)

VMF-214_HaVoK
07-13-2007, 08:41 PM
If you lose its because of you, so lets stop blaming the plane shall we. Its so old and has been complained about so many times it borderline pathetic. I dont care if your in the so called superior plane or not you still can not beat the better pilot with a better tactical position, and this is fact.

S!

Copperhead310th
07-13-2007, 09:42 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by VMF-214_HaVoK:
If you lose its because of you, so lets stop blaming the plane shall we. Its so old and has been complained about so many times it borderline pathetic. I dont care if your in the so called superior plane or not you still can not beat the better pilot with a better tactical position, and this is fact.

S! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Havok...lol this was a FISHING THREAD&gt; lol it was intended as a joke. Gosh you ppl take me mcuh too seiuosly sometimes. lol lighten up live a little.

Hydra454
07-13-2007, 11:20 PM
Regardless Copper,the analogy sure made me laugh like hell http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

Korolov1986
07-13-2007, 11:53 PM
I'd throw 'em back if I were you, Copper.

Copperhead310th
07-14-2007, 07:55 AM
yeah K, no keepers here. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

LStarosta
07-14-2007, 07:57 AM
I make best kill.

mortoma
07-14-2007, 03:38 PM
Actually the P-51 as modelled in our favorite sim has been given a very liberal high speed and low speed turn. Probably better than the real thing historically. It's speed is also about right according to historical data. What I don't like is the ineffectiveness of the MGs
against most planes.

Now hold your horse!! I'm not going to attempt to start another ".50s are porked" battle. I just think heavy Mgs are under-modelled across the board in this sim. And also a combination of a simplistic damage model that exacerabtes the problem. No, I can't back up anything with data as far as the Mg effectiveness, ( who can? ) but I go by watching gun camera clips of .50s shredding FW-190s and such to pieces. But if you are a good marksman and pilot, you can overcome this deficiency somewhat. Personally I just feel heavy Mg destructiveness should be increased a bit.

Overall, the P-51 is not too bad and I have litte trouble with the six guns models. But trying to down something with the four gun models is frustrating even at convergence. But I can still get kills with them.

VW-IceFire
07-14-2007, 05:05 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mortoma:
Now hold your horse!! I'm not going to attempt to start another ".50s are porked" battle. I just think heavy Mgs are under-modelled across the board in this sim. And also a combination of a simplistic damage model that exacerabtes the problem. No, I can't back up anything with data as far as the Mg effectiveness, ( who can? ) but I go by watching gun camera clips of .50s shredding FW-190s and such to pieces. But if you are a good marksman and pilot, you can overcome this deficiency somewhat. Personally I just feel heavy Mg destructiveness should be increased a bit. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Its true...I think it'll be allot better in Storm of War since we've seen what some of the details are now in the new damage models and I think the light and especially heavy machine guns will get a much fairer shake because there is just so much more inside the new planes.