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PirateRob
09-28-2011, 10:43 AM
randomly going through wikipedia and looking through history websites and it amazes me the level of historical detail that ubisoft goes into, obviously some events are changed but even minor characters such as perotto calderon mentioned in project legacy were real historical figures.

PirateRob
09-28-2011, 10:43 AM
randomly going through wikipedia and looking through history websites and it amazes me the level of historical detail that ubisoft goes into, obviously some events are changed but even minor characters such as perotto calderon mentioned in project legacy were real historical figures.

blazefp
09-28-2011, 12:09 PM
The franchise is full of little things like perotto calderon, from the first civilization to nowadays. It's pretty awesome that someone has done a conspiracy theory of this size, involving almost every important person in real life's history.

PirateRob
09-28-2011, 12:13 PM
the amount of time and effort on the small details such as calderon being a real courier for the borgia's just astounds me though.

hats off to the writers of the series for the little details on top of an already massive story arc

Altair661
09-28-2011, 12:32 PM
I have a feeling they started the writing for the series well before they started AC1. However apparently they've had the whole thing planned out since AC1. Sometimes during the truth in AC2 I kinda felt they were making it up as they went along, but I trust they know what they're doing.

Jexx21
09-28-2011, 01:16 PM
I think there was an actually Auditore family also with the 3 men of the family being hanged. Ezio may or may not of existed, not sure.

PirateRob
09-28-2011, 01:19 PM
cool if there's any sources to show a real auditore family i'd be interested in having a look

LightRey
09-28-2011, 01:49 PM
I also like how AC is many times more likely to be true than basically any other conspiracy theory out there.

Jexx21
09-28-2011, 01:51 PM
Actually, I can't find anything on the internet that states the Auditore family existed besides people saying it with no source.

There might be a book out there somewhere though.

LightRey
09-28-2011, 01:57 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jexx21:
Actually, I can't find anything on the internet that states the Auditore family existed besides people saying it with no source.

There might be a book out there somewhere though. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Well, if they did exist then Maria's diary should be in the Uffizi.

CRUDFACE
09-29-2011, 08:56 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LightRey:
I also like how AC is many times more likely to be true than basically any other conspiracy theory out there. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Why?

Iskander_Estel
09-29-2011, 09:00 AM
The reason why you can't find anything about the Auditore family (beside the games) it's because they didn't existed, it was clearly stated by the developers when AC2 was the incoming game.

LightRey
09-29-2011, 10:26 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by t260z:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LightRey:
I also like how AC is many times more likely to be true than basically any other conspiracy theory out there. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Why? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Because most, if not all conspiracy theories aren't well thought out.

Chamboozer
09-29-2011, 04:37 PM
Ubi does do a very good job on historical accuracy, punctuated by the random glaring error, such as the word 'Byzantine".

PirateRob
09-29-2011, 07:56 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Iskander_Estel:
The reason why you can't find anything about the Auditore family (beside the games) it's because they didn't existed, it was clearly stated by the developers when AC2 was the incoming game. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

i dont believe they existed at all, i meant about real historical people being included

Calvarok
09-29-2011, 08:04 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Chamboozer:
Ubi does do a very good job on historical accuracy, punctuated by the random glaring error, such as the word '". </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Is that some sort of racist historical joke, or do you actually think the Byzantine Empire didn't exist?

Saqaliba
09-29-2011, 11:31 PM
The term 'Byzantine Empire' was coined in the 18th century and popularised by Charles-Louis de Secondat, baron de La Brède et de Montesquieu who influenced the founding fathers of USA... yes - a Templar!

The people who lived in the "Byzantine Empire" never knew nor used the word "Byzantine." They know themselves to be Romans, nothing more and absolutely nothing less.

Constantinople was known as 'Nova Roma' and the occupants as Romanians (Romania the country was known as Wachlia)

Byzantium was a much earlier kingdom which had nothing to do with the later Roman Empire.

Another case of historical falsification.

What, if anything, is a Byzantine? (http://www.romanity.org/htm/fox.01.en.what_if_anything_is_a_byzantine.01.htm)

Calvarok
09-30-2011, 12:59 AM
Well it's obvious why Ubisoft didn't just call them romans: it's confusing. Just like they refer to AC2 as being set in Italy, when Italy did not exist as a country at that point.

LightRey
09-30-2011, 03:40 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Saqaliba:
The term 'Byzantine Empire' was coined in the 18th century and popularised by Charles-Louis de Secondat, baron de La Brède et de Montesquieu who influenced the founding fathers of USA... yes - a Templar!

The people who lived in the "Byzantine Empire" never knew nor used the word "Byzantine." They know themselves to be Romans, nothing more and absolutely nothing less.

Constantinople was known as 'Nova Roma' and the occupants as Romanians (Romania the country was known as Wachlia)

Byzantium was a much earlier kingdom which had nothing to do with the later Roman Empire.

Another case of historical falsification.

What, if anything, is a Byzantine? (http://www.romanity.org/htm/fox.01.en.what_if_anything_is_a_byzantine.01.htm) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
You're right, but at no point do I remember anyone in the game from that time period referring to the empire as the Byzantine empire. The only ones who have so far in fact are the people irl talking about the setting of ACR, so no historical inaccuracies have appeared yet.

This brings us to Calvarok's point, which argues that it would be confusing to call them Romans and I'm inclined to agree.

Besides, even if they would at some point call it the "Byzantine" empire it could simply be part of the Animus translation system, since it would just be searching for English translations, regardless of whether those English words were used at the time.

eagleforlife1
09-30-2011, 04:16 AM
LightRey is correct.

Jexx21
09-30-2011, 06:46 PM
Constantine did in fact consider the city to be Roman, and he himself named it Nova Roma, which I find to be very interesting. Although I think the people renamed it Constantinople in honor of Constantine.

AC:Brotherhood takes place in Rome. AC:Revelations takes place in a city once known as New Rome. And we get a new Brotherhood system, and a new and improved dual wielding system.

I love ACR already. I'm pretty positive it will be the best Assassin's Creed yet.

Chamboozer
10-01-2011, 02:29 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Calvarok:
Well it's obvious why Ubisoft didn't just call them romans: it's confusing. Just like they refer to AC2 as being set in Italy, when Italy did not exist as a country at that point. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Why would it be a problem if it was confusing? They can help correct people's false preconception that the Byzantine Empire was a different state than the Roman Empire.

Also it is correct to say that ACII and ACB were set in Italy because Italy was and still is the name of the geographic region, as well as being the name of the country.

LightRey
10-01-2011, 03:13 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Chamboozer:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Calvarok:
Well it's obvious why Ubisoft didn't just call them romans: it's confusing. Just like they refer to AC2 as being set in Italy, when Italy did not exist as a country at that point. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Why would it be a problem if it was confusing? They can help correct people's false preconception that the Byzantine Empire was a different state than the Roman Empire.

Also it is correct to say that ACII and ACB were set in Italy because Italy was and still is the name of the geographic region, as well as being the name of the country. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
How would it help people distinguish the Eastern Roman Empire from the Western Roman Empire if they'd call the Eastern Roman Empire a Roman Empire instead of just the Byzantine Empire, which is a commonly used name which was probably thought of to avoid such confusion in the first place?

Chamboozer
10-01-2011, 01:44 PM
The problem isn't that they'll confuse east and west, the problem is most people don't know that the Byzantine Empire is the Eastern Roman Empire, they will think it's something else entirely.

If I were Ubi I'd have it referred to as the Roman Empire in the game, and have Shaun (or Desmond if Shaun gets no chance to talk) explain the fact that they're the Byzantines outside of the memores.

This is a technicality, but if I remember right 'Byzantine' was used to differentiate between the Eastern Roman Empire and the Holy Roman Empire, rather than the Western.

LightRey
10-01-2011, 03:00 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Chamboozer:
The problem isn't that they'll confuse east and west, the problem is most people don't know that the Byzantine Empire is the Eastern Roman Empire, they will think it's something else entirely.

If I were Ubi I'd have it referred to as the Roman Empire in the game, and have Shaun (or Desmond if Shaun gets no chance to talk) explain the fact that they're the Byzantines outside of the memores.

This is a technicality, but if I remember right 'Byzantine' was used to differentiate between the Eastern Roman Empire and the Holy Roman Empire, rather than the Western. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
People don't know that? o.O
I thought it was common knowledge.

Calvarok
10-01-2011, 03:17 PM
It's confusing because we just had a game about romans, and the average person will be confused when people in an entirely different culture and place in the world are also called romans. Some differentiation must be made.

Animuses
10-01-2011, 03:19 PM
They weren't called Turks yet?

LightRey
10-01-2011, 03:26 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Animuses:
They weren't called Turks yet? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Well, they were called Ottomans, but the point of the Templars in ACR is that they want to revive the Eastern Roman Empire, which would cause confusion if it were called that instead of Byzantine Empire.

Chamboozer
10-01-2011, 04:50 PM
"Turk" was a word that actually meant something akin to 'Country Bumpkin', the equivalent of calling someone a hick. If a Muslim character ever uses that word in its modern meaning, it would be incorrect. Christian characters would use it to refer to all Muslims, non-Turks included.

If asked to identify themselves, the people we refer to as 'Turks' or 'Ottomans' would simply call themselves either Muslims, or they would identify themselves by their city, e.g. 'Bursan', 'Ankaran', 'Damascan', etc.

Turk would refer to a backwards peasant, Ottoman would refer to the ruling dynasty, it wasn't used to describe the citizenry until the 19th Century.

As for the Byzantine/Roman issue, yeah I imagine most people who aren't interested in history at all (95% of people) would assume that the Byzantine is not the same as the Roman.

It's basically the same as the Constantinople/Istanbul issue, I advocate using the word that would be correct at the time (Constantinople/Roman) rather than what is correct now (Istanbul/Byzantine).

Saqaliba
10-01-2011, 05:01 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LightRey:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Saqaliba:
The term 'Byzantine Empire' was coined in the 18th century and popularised by Charles-Louis de Secondat, baron de La Brède et de Montesquieu who influenced the founding fathers of USA... yes - a Templar!

The people who lived in the "Byzantine Empire" never knew nor used the word "Byzantine." They know themselves to be Romans, nothing more and absolutely nothing less.

Constantinople was known as 'Nova Roma' and the occupants as Romanians (Romania the country was known as Wachlia)

Byzantium was a much earlier kingdom which had nothing to do with the later Roman Empire.

Another case of historical falsification.

What, if anything, is a Byzantine? (http://www.romanity.org/htm/fox.01.en.what_if_anything_is_a_byzantine.01.htm) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
You're right, but at no point do I remember anyone in the game from that time period referring to the empire as the Byzantine empire. The only ones who have so far in fact are the people irl talking about the setting of ACR, so no historical inaccuracies have appeared yet.

This brings us to Calvarok's point, which argues that it would be confusing to call them Romans and I'm inclined to agree.

Besides, even if they would at some point call it the "Byzantine" empire it could simply be part of the Animus translation system, since it would just be searching for English translations, regardless of whether those English words were used at the time. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I completely agree with you. I was just elaborating on the actual history. I would be perfectly cool if they called themselves Byzantine. I like the sound of the word even. It would be nice to see Ezio refer to it as 'Nova Roma' (at least once) in reference to the Rome he has just come from though.

You guys read much history. I have been doing a huge study of Damscus, Acre & Jerusalem and I have listed thousands of locations in AC1 through using old maps. I will post them here when I am done. John Julius Norwich is good for Byzantine History. Steven Runciman is good for Crusader history.

Jexx21
10-01-2011, 09:57 PM
Hell, the only reason I know that Constantinople was called Nova Roma is because I am currently doing an analysis of the History of Christianity in Constantinople (and I chose this subject because of ACR &gt;.&lt; ) for my Story of the Church class. (I'm a junior in a Mennonite High School, if that explains having that class)

Calvarok
10-01-2011, 10:08 PM
Just think, in a few hundred years someone is going to be having this discussion about calling New York "The Big Apple" because New York is too similar to "York" in England. : P

Jexx21
10-01-2011, 10:10 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Calvarok:
Just think, in a few hundred years someone is going to be having this discussion about calling New York "The Big Apple" because New York is too similar to "York" in England. : P </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hmmm...

An Assassins Creed in New York eh? Motorcycles, scaling The Empire State Building, sniping people with the equivalent of a very long ranged hidden gun.. :P

Calvarok
10-01-2011, 10:15 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jexx21:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Calvarok:
Just think, in a few hundred years someone is going to be having this discussion about calling "The Big Apple" because New York is too similar to "York" in England. : P </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hmmm...

An Assassins Creed in New York eh? Motorcycles, scaling The Empire State Building, sniping people with the equivalent of a very long ranged hidden gun.. :P </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
New York setting means it must be modern? New York was founded only one century after Ezio's time! :P

I would not mind a more extensive modern element to a future AC game. AC is not awesome because it is set in X time period, it is awesome because of how it adapts creativity, strategy, and conspiracy to any time period.

Jexx21
10-01-2011, 10:19 PM
Was it still an 'amazing' city in the 17th to 19th century as it is today?

Meh, either way, I want motorcycles. Let's take advantage of Desmond's motorcycle license.

Calvarok
10-01-2011, 10:24 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jexx21:
Was it still an 'amazing' city in the 17th to 19th century as it is today?

Meh, either way, I want motorcycles. Let's take advantage of Desmond's motorcycle license. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Hopefully motorcycles control better than horses.
XD

Jexx21
10-01-2011, 10:27 PM
:P

I want the motorcycles to control like the ones in Just Cause 2.

LightRey
10-02-2011, 05:25 AM
At first it was a Dutch colony called "New Amsterdam". Damn English with their dry gunpowder...

Oh well, at least we got Suriname for it in return.

Jexx21
10-02-2011, 09:29 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LightRey:
At first it was a Dutch colony called "New Amsterdam". Damn English with their dry gunpowder...

Oh well, at least we got Suriname for it in return. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You mean New York?

LightRey
10-03-2011, 04:29 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jexx21:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LightRey:
At first it was a Dutch colony called "New Amsterdam". Damn English with their dry gunpowder...

Oh well, at least we got Suriname for it in return. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You mean New York? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yeah. I do like how we bluffed our way outta there though.