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View Full Version : Tactic lesson; attn. you n00bs.



Kuna_
05-21-2006, 08:59 AM
Originally posted by [GS]CaptMorgan:
This is from a thread along time ago I post this.

p51 plane and simple

DRIVE IT LIKE YOU STOLE IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

First off any one who flys below 5000ms in one is a sucker

Two you dog fight in it, you get what you deserved.

Okay keys to the kingdom. Only gonna post this once.

1. Fly high and stay high
2. Use your rudder when shooting, it is there for a reason
3. now we get technical.
A. Diving in.
i. first track your target.
ii. two look around, make sure no one is sculking about.
iii. three Look around again.
iv. Make your pass
v. Climb out in a shallow climb. You blow to much E pulling straight
up
a. side note: be easy on the controls, treat her like a women,
not a dirty pig
B. Take a coffee break.
i. look around
ii first what did I just dive in.
ii. did I hit him
iii. did he dive away or climb to engage.
iv. Look around.
v. how much alt did I loose
vi. is another pass an opition
vii. If you answer yes to the last one dive in again
viii. repeat all of b

C. Staying alive in a bad situation.
i. Mk108/20mm just went by head
ii. dive in a shallow dive 20 to 30 deg
iii. try to determine what is behind you.
iv. can I fight this out or should I run
v. do I have help

a. I have help.
i. drag and bag that fool

b. I am screwed and no one is near me.
i. dive for the deck in a steeper then normal dive about 30deg
ii. don't put your nose straight down
iii. don't turn.
iv. don't make any sudden stick movements
v. center the ball. (important in shooting too.)
vi. run for home you have friends there

c. I was stupid lost all my alt and speed.
i. bend over
ii. to kiss your but
iii. say good bye
iv. other option find a cloud and try and run out.

I will be here all week if any of you fools would like lessons.

Me I do not abide by any of the above tactics

because one I like to turn a burn.
two I like a good fight
three I rather have fun then be bored.
and doing all the above tactics. is BORING.


Now as for the spit. Dude any child can fly that plane.

If you need lessons on that, I can give you them too.

being a child that is. As you can see it is mostly written for allied aircraft. But you can easily adapt it to suit your "blue" needs.

Kuna_
05-21-2006, 08:59 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by [GS]CaptMorgan:
This is from a thread along time ago I post this.

p51 plane and simple

DRIVE IT LIKE YOU STOLE IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

First off any one who flys below 5000ms in one is a sucker

Two you dog fight in it, you get what you deserved.

Okay keys to the kingdom. Only gonna post this once.

1. Fly high and stay high
2. Use your rudder when shooting, it is there for a reason
3. now we get technical.
A. Diving in.
i. first track your target.
ii. two look around, make sure no one is sculking about.
iii. three Look around again.
iv. Make your pass
v. Climb out in a shallow climb. You blow to much E pulling straight
up
a. side note: be easy on the controls, treat her like a women,
not a dirty pig
B. Take a coffee break.
i. look around
ii first what did I just dive in.
ii. did I hit him
iii. did he dive away or climb to engage.
iv. Look around.
v. how much alt did I loose
vi. is another pass an opition
vii. If you answer yes to the last one dive in again
viii. repeat all of b

C. Staying alive in a bad situation.
i. Mk108/20mm just went by head
ii. dive in a shallow dive 20 to 30 deg
iii. try to determine what is behind you.
iv. can I fight this out or should I run
v. do I have help

a. I have help.
i. drag and bag that fool

b. I am screwed and no one is near me.
i. dive for the deck in a steeper then normal dive about 30deg
ii. don't put your nose straight down
iii. don't turn.
iv. don't make any sudden stick movements
v. center the ball. (important in shooting too.)
vi. run for home you have friends there

c. I was stupid lost all my alt and speed.
i. bend over
ii. to kiss your but
iii. say good bye
iv. other option find a cloud and try and run out.

I will be here all week if any of you fools would like lessons.

Me I do not abide by any of the above tactics

because one I like to turn a burn.
two I like a good fight
three I rather have fun then be bored.
and doing all the above tactics. is BORING.


Now as for the spit. Dude any child can fly that plane.

If you need lessons on that, I can give you them too.

being a child that is. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>As you can see it is mostly written for allied aircraft. But you can easily adapt it to suit your "blue" needs.

Brain32
05-21-2006, 09:03 AM
Yes, Morgan nailed it pretty well http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

georgeo76
05-21-2006, 09:29 AM
How do you win a war fighting like that?

Brain32
05-21-2006, 09:39 AM
How do you win one(Hollywood wars are excluded) not fighting like that? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

ucanfly
05-21-2006, 10:06 AM
You just described the AVG tactics using a P-40 against a superior Zero. That works well when using guerilla tactics, too bad that is not the only way the P-51 was successfully used historically.

Maybe someday a sim will capture this reasonably well - maybe this one.

Chuck_Older
05-21-2006, 10:13 AM
can u repeat teh quezshun plz?

danjama
05-21-2006, 10:21 AM
Spontendaculariousnessperality

Yes i made up a word.

RCAF_Irish_403
05-21-2006, 02:23 PM
...or you could just save yourself major problems and ignore the P51

Kuna_
05-21-2006, 05:46 PM
Mustang Mk.III is one of the best aircrafts in game, I just wish that we get MK.IV modern airframe (borrowed from P-51D).

Those are really nasty aircrafts.

Lordbutter4
05-21-2006, 09:10 PM
Those are fine and dandy tactics, but most people forget apply tactics necassary to win based on what is going on. Classic examples of wrong tatics in online DF play:

1. The stay high guys..
You always see them. Every enemy fighter is around 2-3000m, yet they feel they must fly at 5-6000m. They almost never see the enemy. Usually around AAA batteries because thats the only thing they can see. Well, that and tracers of other planes. Expect them to dive down as your firing, then claim they had the "E".

2. The Chicken..
Your flying in enemy territory. You have picked up an enemy aircraft. A fight insues. Ah ha! Here comes a wingman! You have less speed, but you can drag and try to make the shot as simple as possible for the wing. Of course, the wingman comes screaming down with no control, blasts cannon everywhere but on target, and then immediately pulls up into an insaine climb. Meanwhile you now get shot down, and the bad guy's buddie comes and shoots him out of the sky.

3. The babysitter
They love single grid ground targets. Read that brief, targets are in A4. They proceed to hug A4 like its the only spot on the map. They also usually brag about their K/D ratios, although they almost never fly into enemy grids or take any chance of being killed.

On some servers, missions are important. If you are not helping in any way, you are a waste. Sitting up at 7000m while your team is lower isnt teamwork, its self-preservation. Find out what server you play on before you go assigning tatics. If its about lone wolf DFing, then by all means just worry about yourself. If its trying to be team oriented, you might have to apply different tactics.

Remember, the idea is to use your plane to the best you can. Mustangs can be used at low alts, same as 47's. What is their prey? In the ETO mustangs and 47's will usually encounter FW's (few A, most D), or 109's (mostly late model). A 47 or 51 wont have too much trouble with a FW believe it or not. The biggest problem is going to be a 109, which most players will not fly late war. It always amazes me how people will consistantly take spits they know cannot keep up with a FW while ignoring planes that can still outfly Fw's and have speed to boot!

Hashmark13
05-21-2006, 09:18 PM
If you don't fly ALL aircraft like that, I can't imagine how horrid your Kill to death ratio is.

Waldo.Pepper
05-21-2006, 10:49 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">treat her like a women,
not a dirty pig </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The women I like, like to be treated like dirty pigs! Even Mrs Pepper. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Feathered_IV
05-22-2006, 04:42 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Me I do not abide by any of the above tactics because one I like to turn a burn. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The 'turn and burn' phrase really gives me the sh*ts. These days it is mistakenly applied to describe close-in dog fighting. When it was originally used as a cautionary term to describe what will happen to your average P-40 pilot, who attempts to turn with the Zero. ie: You turn, you will burn.

Grrr http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/compsmash.gif

WOLFMondo
05-22-2006, 04:50 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by georgeo76:
How do you win a war fighting like that? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You don't. But how many real Mustang pilots flew around by themselves like some guys do on DF servers? Absolutely none.

Maraz_5SA
05-22-2006, 05:19 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by WOLFMondo:
You don't. But how many real Mustang pilots flew around by themselves like some guys do on DF servers? Absolutely none. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No pilot of any air force with any aircraft ever flew like most of DF players (including me) do. Planes flew in formation, had a definite task to accomplish. Stragglers were usually dead.

To have a hint (only a hint) about tactics used in real war, you might try some good coop or online war. There you will see, for example, formations of bombers escorted by fighters (not the lone bomber flying around you can find in DF maps), organized fighter cover over ground targets, etc. You will have a definite mission to accomplish, instead of wandering around looking for a possible airkill. Though some coop players still like flying like lone wolves and only fly for airkills, there is a least the chance to find good combats.

Maraz

RCAF_Irish_403
05-22-2006, 05:52 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Kuna_:
Mustang Mk.III is one of the best aircrafts in game, I just wish that we get MK.IV modern airframe (borrowed from P-51D).

Those are really nasty aircrafts. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Right-o....it's the "D" that gives me fits..."C" model rocks

CMHQ_Rikimaru
05-22-2006, 06:35 AM
If u have any task, not just free hunt, like escort bombers, CAP, or attacking ground targets u can forget about these rules.

RED_BEAR8
05-22-2006, 11:42 AM
Stay high means no fun in a dogfight server. is dificult to see the enemy planes from high. I am talking about 3000 not 5000. Every body goes low on turning fight. on planes that were built to fly high from time to time you find some guys high depent on the server and the guys how are flying. but most of the time every body is donw on the mud http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

i look to stay 1500 too 2000. but is dificult as i said to see the planes donw. the only kind of map that is possible to fly high a be succesful is on winter maps, but it depends on the time you are flying, otherwide you will have a alone flying up there http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

VW-IceFire
05-22-2006, 11:50 AM
Man that is spot on advice. Any well flown Mustang uses those techniques to succeed. And for those who think thats the "easy way out" or completely mimicking the P-40 VS Zero matchup I think they are wrong on both counts. This is once again the matching up of technique with aircraft advantage and the P-51 and P-40 actually share quite a bit in common when it comes to tactics employed. The P-40 is far more agile but its still prudent to use the same technique regardless of what the opponent is.

While the P-51 flight model does need work on it...the technique is correct.

VW-IceFire
05-22-2006, 11:56 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by RED_BEAR8:
Stay high means no fun in a dogfight server. is dificult to see the enemy planes from high. I am talking about 3000 not 5000. Every body goes low on turning fight. on planes that were built to fly high from time to time you find some guys high depent on the server and the guys how are flying. but most of the time every body is donw on the mud http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

i look to stay 1500 too 2000. but is dificult as i said to see the planes donw. the only kind of map that is possible to fly high a be succesful is on winter maps, but it depends on the time you are flying, otherwide you will have a alone flying up there http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Thats why you have to tailor the aircraft to the situation. Dogfight servers favour tactical fighters and fighter-bombers. This means the best fighters in a dogfight server are the Lavochkin series (La-5/7), the Yak series, the Focke Wulf, the early 109G-2 and G-6 series, P-39, P-63, Tempest, and the Spitfire. It does not favour the Mustang or the Thunderbolt or the Ta-152H, or the Bf109K, or any of those types of fighters. If you had a dogfight server that started you off at 7000m then the dynamic would change significantly...the Spitfire would still be in but the Lavockhins and the Yaks would be out...the Tempest would be out, the P-47, P-38, and P-51 would rule, followed by the late 109s and the Ta-152H. If anyone has faced a P-47 at 9000m they soon realize that all of the sudden this plane is a monster with no equal and the P-51 is close behind.

So on the other hand if you're faced with a short in low altitude combat then you select the type of aircraft that has the most advantages down there and thats generally the lighter, high power to weight ratio, good turners, and engine tuned for low altitude. The P-51 and P-47 can be used effectively down there but by using groups of teammates.

ucanfly
05-22-2006, 11:57 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
Man that is spot on advice. Any well flown Mustang uses those techniques to succeed. And for those who think thats the "easy way out" or completely mimicking the P-40 VS Zero matchup I think they are wrong on both counts. This is once again the matching up of technique with aircraft advantage and the P-51 and P-40 actually share quite a bit in common when it comes to tactics employed. The P-40 is far more agile but its still prudent to use the same technique regardless of what the opponent is.

While the P-51 flight model does need work on it...the technique is correct. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I am not questioning the prudency of the recommendation , just the accuracy of the sim vs. historical reality. Right now the lack of control stiffness in many planes, over sensitivity in elevator of P-51 and screwy sustained yaw angles make the P-51d much less of a dog fighter than it was historically.