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mean_mango
09-30-2009, 09:57 AM
While there's nothing new here, it's a back-of-your-hand summary of things I try to remember at all times. Forgetting any one of them causes me much frustration and many stalls! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Please add your own highlights for everyone's benefit.

- #1 priority is to Converve Energy
- Use smooth inputs on all controls, including throttle
- Keep your speed up
- Use the rudder in extreme maneuvers to reduce drag
- Avoid target fixation and plan maneuvers 3-5 seconds ahead
- Avoid stalling at all costs. Nothing depleats E like a stall!

Remember, winning the fight takes Self Control and Patience. Every scenario can be salvaged, as long as you have E!

Situational awareness requires unbroken concentration. You can track enemies even when you can't see them!

mean_mango
09-30-2009, 09:57 AM
While there's nothing new here, it's a back-of-your-hand summary of things I try to remember at all times. Forgetting any one of them causes me much frustration and many stalls! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Please add your own highlights for everyone's benefit.

- #1 priority is to Converve Energy
- Use smooth inputs on all controls, including throttle
- Keep your speed up
- Use the rudder in extreme maneuvers to reduce drag
- Avoid target fixation and plan maneuvers 3-5 seconds ahead
- Avoid stalling at all costs. Nothing depleats E like a stall!

Remember, winning the fight takes Self Control and Patience. Every scenario can be salvaged, as long as you have E!

Situational awareness requires unbroken concentration. You can track enemies even when you can't see them!

K_Freddie
09-30-2009, 10:38 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mean_mango:
- Avoid target fixation and plan maneuvers 3-5 seconds ahead </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
This is the only one you'll need to survive.
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

general_kalle
09-30-2009, 11:01 AM
never fly straight for more than 30 seconds,
10 seconds in a combat zone imo.

learn deflektion shooting
when evading dont do too little, rather do too much than too little.

take a shot when you have it, you might not get the chance later.

Erkki_M
09-30-2009, 11:05 AM
Patience.

M_Gunz
09-30-2009, 11:50 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mean_mango:
While there's nothing new here, it's a back-of-your-hand summary of things I try to remember at all times. Forgetting any one of them causes me much frustration and many stalls! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Please add your own highlights for everyone's benefit.

- #1 priority is to Converve Energy
- Use smooth inputs on all controls, including throttle
- Keep your speed up
- Use the rudder in extreme maneuvers to reduce drag
- Avoid target fixation and plan maneuvers 3-5 seconds ahead
- Avoid stalling at all costs. Nothing depleats E like a stall!

Remember, winning the fight takes Self Control and Patience. Every scenario can be salvaged, as long as you have E!

Situational awareness requires unbroken concentration. You can track enemies even when you can't see them! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That seems to be a good bit more than an Idiot's Guide!
How about:

1) get online
2) stay low and keep turning hard

Simply because that's a guide for how to be an idiot!

psykopatsak
09-30-2009, 12:10 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by general_kalle:

take a shot when you have it, you might not get the chance later. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

but that does not mean shooting just because target is in front of you.

The_Stealth_Owl
09-30-2009, 08:26 PM
Always keep an eye out, you never now when somebodys lurking behind you.

Whatch your fuel!

Know your plane before your enamy's plane (or something).

Keep your cockpit clean (that means no food!) use the spit's little tabaco pipe carrier to hold your stuff. And don't trip over the crowbar.


Never go vertical when your enamy is behind you. (I learned this the hard way...)



That about covers it all.

DrHerb
09-30-2009, 08:37 PM
Rule No. 1 - Dont go too slow

Rule No. 2 - Dont go too slow

Rule No. 3 - Dont go too slow

Wildnoob
09-30-2009, 09:21 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by M_Gunz:
How about:

1) get online
2) stay low and keep turning hard

Simply because that's a guide for how to be an idiot! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If you allow me, I'll add a third one M_Gunz:

3) call the pilot's who don't do this and keep doing B&Z e/or outrun your more nimble planes cowards, noobs! and challange them in a turn and burn figth at low altitude with you flying a La-7 x3 B-20/Spit 25lbs/I-85/Ki-84IC, especially if they use crates like the FW-190 and P-51 to show them how good you are.

After that tell to them to not use those hard planes which "stall easily" and "can't turn" and recommend the ones from the list above.

Tell to those players this "doesn't show skill" and it's a great n00b behavior, also, expose your ideas about WWII history with your squadron, like "how they could call a so wounderful aircraft like the I-16 obsolet, IL2 is a very realistic sim and shows that not, far superior them any 109 and 190, as they can turn much, much better!".

also, ask them to join your squadron and keep spreading this combat philosophy. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/halo.gif

PS: post based on true online facts. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

M_Gunz
09-30-2009, 09:25 PM
LOL! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

And then set up a server with No BnZ rule!

Wildnoob
09-30-2009, 09:47 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by M_Gunz:
LOL! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

And then set up a server with No BnZ rule! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ah, M_Gunz, there's already a lot of them. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Sometimes I enter in such servers and even read the briefing, so often I get kicked.

Seriously, belive me, this happened again today. I was kicked from one because was B&Z the furballs with mainly the planeset I mention above with a P-51. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

WTE_Galway
09-30-2009, 10:09 PM
Haven't flown online in years ... but at the time a lot of the furball airquake servers were unrestricted plane choice and i used to love pitching in to the noob macho man turn fight battles in a P11c.

Because energy fighting was banned there was no way the late war hotrods could get me (split S while only 150m off the ground anyone?) ... and of course armed with a pair of LMG it was rare to do any serious damage to them either (did down a P39 once) but it annoyed hell out of them, I just buzzed around like an annoying house fly .. to the point that some of them had new rules "NO B&Z and NO annoying crap planes". http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Wildnoob
09-30-2009, 10:19 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by WTE_Galway:
Haven't flown online in years ... but at the time a lot of the furball airquake servers were unrestricted plane choice and i used to love pitching in to the noob macho man turn fight battles in a P11c.

Because energy fighting was banned there was no way the late war hotrods could get me (split S while only 150m off the ground anyone?) ... and of course armed with a pair of LMG it was rare to do any serious damage to them either (did down a P39 once) but it annoyed hell out of them, I just buzzed around like an annoying house fly .. to the point that some of them had new rules "no B&Z and no "annoying crap planes". http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I also love the "macho man" noob figths.

I'm dying to fly with early I-16s models in the early part of the Khalkhin Gol battle against Ki-27s and vice versa, as well as the Fokker DXXI.

Maybe looks like, but I don't have really anything against this kind of player, and have respect for them.

My critizen is mostly of them, though, just keep with this kind of game all the way and don't accept the basic B&Z tactic be used against them.

Not a critizen really, just think it would be nice for them know some fundamentals in using dedicated energy figthers.

Because is exactly this kind of people who common when in a mission say things like, for example: "I won't figth in a BF-109 up to G2 against a La-5N, it's not even!"

Even in a realistic co-op mission, I already saw players who would refuse to figth with the LW in such situation because thougth they won't stand a single change. Even if the La is in fact superior at lengthy engagements at low and medium altitude. And they say this only because their exclusive "combat tactic" is turn hard.

That's the drawback when they try left their "enviroment".

But I hate when they start to desincourage a pilot which is trying to learn fly in a B&Z figther, and there are several who are already going very well, with the arguments mentioned above in favor to T&B ones just because they don't know how to use planes of this type and seems don't want nobody do it. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif

Altough IL2 features both worlds, so anyone fly with the way that think is better for it's fun, what really matters.

FlixFlix
09-30-2009, 10:27 PM
I can't believe y'all forgot to mention golden rule no.1 of online aerial combat:

- <span class="ev_code_RED">Check your six! </span>

skarden
10-01-2009, 01:38 AM
The two best things I ever heard that helped me the most were


1. Speed is life and altitude is insurance.

2. Treat your virtual life like your real one.


If I rememeber those two things I get home 99% of the time.

BillSwagger
10-01-2009, 04:05 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mean_mango:
While there's nothing new here, it's a back-of-your-hand summary of things I try to remember at all times. Forgetting any one of them causes me much frustration and many stalls! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Please add your own highlights for everyone's benefit.

- #1 priority is to Converve Energy
- Use smooth inputs on all controls, including throttle
- Keep your speed up
- Use the rudder in extreme maneuvers to reduce drag
- Avoid target fixation and plan maneuvers 3-5 seconds ahead
- Avoid stalling at all costs. Nothing depleats E like a stall!

Remember, winning the fight takes Self Control and Patience. Every scenario can be salvaged, as long as you have E!

Situational awareness requires unbroken concentration. You can track enemies even when you can't see them! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

These are all good, i would just expand on SA, and add that it is probably the most essential.
Based on your SA, you will need to know when to commit to an attack and when not too. It also helps in defending yourself from many attackers.

Its too bad i don't play online anymore, then i could show you all how its done. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/partyhat.gif



Bill

Pigeon_
10-01-2009, 05:33 AM
Only engage if you can win.

rnzoli
10-01-2009, 05:57 AM
I think idiot's should not fly at all.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mean_mango:
Please add your own highlights for everyone's benefit. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Let me see how I can prove them wrong http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/halo.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">- #1 priority is to Converve Energy </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Important, but absolutely not #1. Priority is to kill and win. If I need to trade energy for a good shot, I will.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">- Use smooth inputs on all controls, including throttle </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Not when in close manouvering combat, because this makes me look like a perfect target, easy to pull a lead on. It's perfectly OK to be agressive on controls when your enemy is within shooting distance.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">- Keep your speed up </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Not when settling in the 6 of a damaged opponent.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">- Use the rudder in extreme maneuvers to reduce drag </div></BLOCKQUOTE>I couldn't care less about drag in extreme manouvers. I use rudder in order not to spin out and crash!
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">- Avoid target fixation and plan maneuvers 3-5 seconds ahead </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Can't beat that. Although the price you pay is that you will occasionally lose easy-meat targets in exchange for your improved awareness of other planes.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">- Avoid stalling at all costs. Nothing depleats E like a stall! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Not for the cost of being shot down. Nothing depletes your life like a bullet in the head.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Remember, winning the fight takes Self Control and Patience. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Well if someone has to be reminded about this, he is an idiot for sure. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif This should be in the vein.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Every scenario can be salvaged, as long as you have E! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Salvaged = run like chicken? Yes, except not when your opponent's wingman has even more E than you.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Situational awareness requires unbroken concentration. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>...which leads to target fixation. Awareness requires you to look around in the first place.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">You can track enemies even when you can't see them! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Sorry, you can only predict them, not track them. Tracking is still needed to maintain your SA and not let your predition fail.

JtD
10-01-2009, 06:18 AM
You definitely have to keep concentrated in order to maintain a good situational awareness. Target fixation is a natural thing and doesn't require any focus at all.

Manu-6S
10-01-2009, 06:31 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Erkki_M:
Patience. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Like always Erkki_M beats me on time http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I can add:

- Be a paranoid pilot, learn that you are never safe in the air. while you're inflight you should look ahead the 20% of the times.. the other 80% you have to look around you.

- Fire only when you are really close.
- Choose you prey with attention: and always the one with more energy.

DKoor
10-01-2009, 06:33 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by JtD:
You definitely have to keep concentrated in order to maintain a good situational awareness. Target fixation is a natural thing and doesn't require any focus at all. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>That's a gospel to aerial fight.
And 100% of all rookies are guilty of target fixation.
At least I don't know, not one really which didn't keep eyes peeled on his intended target all the time... (who needs TiR)? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

DKoor
10-01-2009, 06:37 AM
And yet here is one obvious one that can hardly be disputed.

Practice gunnery the hardest of all other aspects.

Flying will come naturally but gunnery is something that can't be that easily mastered... I've seen rookies that fly really good, ok their flying is not that highly efficient as with the most experienced players but still good... what sets them miles apart is gunnery.

When you fly vs some guys if you see that you are slowly slipping into a situation where he actually will get a snap shot chance on you, you can as well hit CTRL+E.
On the other hand with others you can survive them full time saddling up on your six...

Gunnery, gunnery, gunnery.

rnzoli
10-01-2009, 06:44 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by JtD:
You definitely have to keep concentrated in order to maintain a good situational awareness. Target fixation is a natural thing and doesn't require any focus at all. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>LOL. Wrong. Maybe true for you and a few experts, but it is also true that novice pilots can lose SA because they concentrate their scanning too much to the area, where they expect the enemy. As a result, they can be too easily surprised when coming from other direction.

Maybe the correct word is to be disciplined, not concentrated. If you concentrate on something, you lose awareness on other things, that's what I mean.

JtD
10-01-2009, 06:54 AM
Yeah, you concentrate on the 19" or whatever in front of you, don't let your mind wander. It doesn't mean you don't use the coolie head, or whatever. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif I bet that's what the original poster meant.

mean_mango
10-01-2009, 09:40 AM
To clear this up, don't assume such a narrow meaning of the word "concentration". It doesn't mean to stare at a particular part of the sky and wait for the enemy to pop up.

I mean pay attention to your speed, orientation and direction, and that of the aircraft you're tracking, and of any other contacts that come into view while you're looking around. Process what you see and build an overall awareness of the situation around you, while deducing how best to establish visual contact with a target when he goes out of view.

All this can take immense mental concentration when things get hairy. That's why exhaustion can set in after a big furball. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

I remember even in the old days of X-Wing vs Tie Fighter I was surprised by how much concentration it takes to simultaneously be acutely aware of everything: ship's internal state, state of mission objectives, and the fight you're engaged in.

And yes, discipline is a very good word to describe what it takes to win a aerial dogfight!

doraemil
10-01-2009, 11:05 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/sleepzzz.gif


I think I'll leave this to the experten


Boelcke's Dicta


1. Try to secure advantages before attacking. If possible, keep the sun behind you.

2. Always carry through an attack when you have started it.

3. Fire only at close range, and only when your opponent is properly in your sights.

4. Always keep your eye on your opponent, and never let yourself be deceived by ruses.

5. In any form of attack, it is essential to assail your opponent from behind.

6. If your opponent dives on you, do not try to evade his onslaught, but fly to meet it.

7. When over the enemy's lines, never forget your own line of retreat.

8. For the Staffel Attack on principle in groups of four or six. When the fight breaks up into a series of single combats, take care that several do not go for one opponent.



---


Erich "Bubi" Hartmann, the world's top scoring fighter pilot ever with 352 confirmed air-to-air kills in WW2, had a simple formula: See - Decide - Attack - Coffee Break.

See. You have to see your prey first. 90% of all kills are made against pilots who never saw the threat.
Decide. Is it safe to attack? Can you get away with it or are there factors that should induce caution? Can you attack from your current position or must you maneuver?

Attack. Make it swift and merciless. Fly close to your victim, from dead astern or slightly below if possible, and shoot only when you're certain to score an immediate kill. This means closing to minimum distance - your sight should be black with the enemy.

Coffee Break. If you can't attack safely or without the enemy taking drastic action to evade you, take a coffee break. I.e, disengage and look for an easier victim. If you do attack, make it in one single pass and immediately disengage to a safe altitude or a safe area to regain situational awareness.

M_Gunz
10-01-2009, 11:21 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by rnzoli:
If you concentrate on something, you lose awareness on other things, that's what I mean. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Don't get fixated?

But if you do that, you might not be an idiot!

K_Freddie
10-01-2009, 12:36 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by M_Gunz:
But if you do that, you might not be an idiot! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I heard it's the same with Lo-n-Slow http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Nooble_savage
10-01-2009, 12:58 PM
Open Server Strategy 1: Get into a mudmover crate and get to the scenario target and no opponent player will be able to stop you. (They are all tied up in the furball located at the exact median on an imaginary line stretching from red's most forward AF to blue's most forward AF.)

Open Server Strategy 2: Only fly your crate within its envelope and nobody will ever shoot you down. (While you fly your energy fighter up in the stratosphere, the rest is down on the deck, too far below for you to see them or vice versa, and they will stay there too. You're absolutely safe.)