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Grue_
06-06-2005, 01:47 PM
I started playing in a squad in 'realistic' online co-ops recently and I reckon it's the most immersive gameplay I've ever experienced.

Only problem is I can't play offline anymore as the AI drives me nuts.

I install the latest version of DCG, fire up a Battle of France campaign, jump in a Hurricane, dive on a Me-109 and shoot it down.

Elation! For about 2 seconds. Then the following scenario develops:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v458/flyingscampi/ai.jpg

A is me wheeling away
B, C, D & E are my wingmen chasing the burning 109 (B is firing wide of course because the 109 is banking).

They continue chasing the burning 109 until it explodes by which time the remaining 109's (F & G) set themselves up nicely to shoot my wingmen to bits.

I get involved and noone gets back to base.

Surely it can't be difficult to stick a line of code somewhere that says 'aircraft burning - do not attempt to shoot down'?

Grue_
06-06-2005, 01:47 PM
I started playing in a squad in 'realistic' online co-ops recently and I reckon it's the most immersive gameplay I've ever experienced.

Only problem is I can't play offline anymore as the AI drives me nuts.

I install the latest version of DCG, fire up a Battle of France campaign, jump in a Hurricane, dive on a Me-109 and shoot it down.

Elation! For about 2 seconds. Then the following scenario develops:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v458/flyingscampi/ai.jpg

A is me wheeling away
B, C, D & E are my wingmen chasing the burning 109 (B is firing wide of course because the 109 is banking).

They continue chasing the burning 109 until it explodes by which time the remaining 109's (F & G) set themselves up nicely to shoot my wingmen to bits.

I get involved and noone gets back to base.

Surely it can't be difficult to stick a line of code somewhere that says 'aircraft burning - do not attempt to shoot down'?

xTHRUDx
06-06-2005, 03:17 PM
heh, looks like more of an online scenaro to me, the way you described it. maybe the AI isn't that far off after all.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Surely it can't be difficult to stick a line of code somewhere that says 'aircraft burning - do not attempt to shoot down'? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

can this also be done for online pilots too? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

x6BL_Brando
06-06-2005, 03:53 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif Nice one, Monty!

NorrisMcWhirter
06-06-2005, 04:09 PM
You're right. Some people say the AI is the best since sliced bread but it soon becomes predictable and they are always *clueless* enough to go after anything that isn't a threat anymore...even in the latest beta.

If AI nicks my kill I just shoot them down. There must be a little 'afterlife' for AI that have annoyed me http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Then again, like mentioned, that's no different from online for the most part.

Ta,
Norris

Jasko76
06-06-2005, 04:14 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Grue_:
Surely it can't be difficult to stick a line of code somewhere that says 'aircraft burning - do not attempt to shoot down'? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sad but true! This way i have to carefuly "guard" my kill from my AI wingmen, following the burning wreck until it crashes. I've lost too many kills this way.

Bull_dog_
06-06-2005, 05:42 PM
I have a feeling that code is written for AI to assess the enemy and take out the most vulnerable enemy...which is often the one that I just shot.

Often, at the merge, I damage an enemy aircraft only to see most of my flight, all of the accompanying flight and who knows who else chase that bandit down and kill it...all the while you are getting peppered by the remaining unengaged enemy team.

Yes the AI is better than most, but there are still some very annoying issues...also hate it when an enemy flys right between me and my wingy and my wingy ignores him while he shoots at me...seems to be worse on some aircraft than others but I don't know why...maybe it has to do with AI algorithms for various classifications of aircraft.

Lixma
06-06-2005, 05:47 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by xTHRUDx:
heh, looks like more of an online scenaro to me, the way you described it. maybe the AI isn't that far off after all.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Surely it can't be difficult to stick a line of code somewhere that says 'aircraft burning - do not attempt to shoot down'? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

can this also be done for online pilots too? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Wouldn't that be bliss ?

han freak solo
06-06-2005, 08:27 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Surely it can't be difficult to stick a line of code somewhere that says 'aircraft burning - do not attempt to shoot down'? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Bump for the wish of this!

Or at least a percentage of damage that renders a plane non-attackable by AI. 85% damage? 95% damage? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

Freelancer-1
06-06-2005, 08:52 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Grue_:
Surely it can't be difficult to stick a line of code somewhere that says 'aircraft burning - do not attempt to shoot down'? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Grue_, You don't need a line of code, just hit 'Tab' and tell them to break off.

Then tell them to attack the other fighters or go home or whatever you want them to do. No big deal.

Odds are, even in co-ops you are going to have AI planes, so you might as well get used to communicating with them.

Freelancer

WWSensei
06-06-2005, 09:05 PM
Yep, you can tell them to break or padlock another aircraft and tell them to attack that one. It's really the only use of padlock I've found to work well--controlling AI wingman.

I even made a VAC profile for giving wingmen commands and mapped it to the same key I use for teamspeak so it's sort of like talking to my squadmates... Doing the When Tigers Could Fly campaign and so far haven't lost a wingman yet and we've got several kills...

Udidtoo
06-06-2005, 09:55 PM
Also don't for get that while your now engaged with 3 to 7 enemy AI now and have ordered your wingman to cover and quite possibly your entire element to cover you you hear "Rgr that We got you covered"

Nothing I enjoy more than 3, 4 or more of my ""support"" http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif makeing doubly danged certain that my kill is well & truly burning to their satisfaction all the while assuring me they have my 6.....from 12K away chasing a dying quail I toasted 3 minutes ago.

All the more reason to enjoy flying with your m8's. If you can't play online then you have to exploit their questionable behavior. If you have the situation well in hand order them all to RTB. If more bandits arrive yell for support from ground control instead of your AI buds, who should have polished off your flamerino by now. Any and all with ammo left and planes still DF worthy will respond..........but like some have indicated that gets boring very quickly.

SeaFireLIV
06-07-2005, 01:18 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Freelancer-1:
Grue_, You don't need a line of code, just hit 'Tab' and tell them to break off.

Then tell them to attack the other fighters or go home or whatever you want them to do. No big deal.

Odds are, even in co-ops you are going to have AI planes, so you might as well get used to communicating with them.

Freelancer </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ah, the AI is such an easy scapegoat isn`t it for complainers isn`t? Thankfully, Freelancer has helped saved the day.

In a dogfight I use several tactics.

AI planes chasing one plane: Order them to `break`. They`ll break and look around, by the time they focus back on the burning enemy it`ll be over. Or just get them to rejoin, then to attack again later.

If I`m in trouble:

Call `Help` by the commands, I`ve been saved several times by fast wingman when I call `help`. I`ve noticed some people complain that AI Wingmen are useless in helping, but a lot of players don`t consider that the AI is probably engaged and cannot immediately arrive. Alternatively call the Tower for reenforcements. It`s best to call Tower early if it looks like it might be tough, cos it can take a while for AI reenforcements to reach you depending on range and if they get intercepted. Which is realistic, they can`t just teleport there instantly.

Anyway, many things can be done if one just uses his resources rather than easily blaming the scapegoated AI. Although, of course the AI could be better, but it isn`t half bad.

Grue_
06-07-2005, 04:08 AM
I shouldn't have used the phrase 'wingmen' as I was in fact of a low rank and therefore unable to command anyone.

For some reason DCG igonored my rank selection when I started the campaign.

Even if I could order the AI about, it would be so much nicer if you didn't have to use comms to 'state the bleedin obvious' though!

I'm not saying the AI is bad overall, I'm just saying it seems such an obvious and perhaps easily obtainable improvement to prevent this kind of thing happening and make the game more enjoyable than it already is.

Jasko76
06-07-2005, 04:54 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Freelancer-1:
Grue_, You don't need a line of code, just hit 'Tab' and tell them to break off.

Then tell them to attack the other fighters or go home or whatever you want them to do. No big deal.

Odds are, even in co-ops you are going to have AI planes, so you might as well get used to communicating with them.

Freelancer </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Fine, there are commands... but I can't always look all over my keyboard for appropriate keys, or divert my attention to navigating hrough the command meny while trying to dodge several bogeys on my tail.

As for assigning commands to joystick - I only have 12 buttons and they're all assigned to other, more important commands - views, weapons, radiators etc...

SithSpeeder
06-07-2005, 08:00 AM
Jasko, et al--

What Sensei said.

VAC stands for voice activated commands. You can simply use a button for push-to-talk, then say "Help Me!" or "Wingman break" or "Rejoin" and the appropriate key sequences (e.g. Tab-1-3) will be executed.

I use Shoot 1.6. The associated profile I use that has this stuff mapped works pretty well. There are links to both at http://www.simace.com/Downloads.htm

Hope that helps.

* _54th_Speeder *

TacticalYak3
06-07-2005, 12:04 PM
Good discussion.

No one would disagree, except maybe Oleg http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif , that the AI needs improvement. But as WWSensei first pointed out, there are ways to address this issue - be the squad leader, and use VAC for quicker radio comms.

Obviously this is not a solution unless you are the leader. And ranking does work in DCG - I'm always the leader (blind leading the blind? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif) .

The problem I see with programming wingmen to leave a damaged plane is often AI pilots can still manage to shoot at my teammates long after their planes have been badly damaged or even on fire. What's up with that? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

TactS!

Jasko76
06-07-2005, 12:26 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TacticalYak3:
The problem I see with programming wingmen to leave a damaged plane is often AI pilots can still manage to shoot at my teammates long after their planes have been badly damaged or even on fire. What's up with that? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

TactS! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I guess they could lower the AI's tolerance levels - no real pilot stays in a burning plane unless he's got some other plans, such as suicidal attack. It's - fcuk this, I'm outta here!

They could progam the AI to disengage/bail out when engine or fuel tank is burning, controls damaged, damage level reaches certain level.

Saunders1953
06-07-2005, 01:57 PM
VAC..."Never leave home (base) without it." If you have headphones/mic, you can't afford to not use it. Shift_E has made an truly indispensable program, and it's free. (Well, Plantronics headphones with boom mic was $30.)

I have CH stick/pedals/throttle so I have what, a 120+ buttons? I use 9, and 4 of those are for my guns/ordnance, then zoom in/out, pause, icon modification (a la Nutcase's excellent tutorial), and TrackIR centering. And I have the pause, icons, and oom on VAC as well, but I find the buttons quicker for those purposes. So the point here is pretty obvious:

VAC..."Never leave home (base) without it."