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View Full Version : A very fustrated Logitech WingMan 3D user



KingKongRetard
01-27-2007, 03:08 AM
First of all, let me share my fustration, anger, hate, annoyance and warth


Logitech WingMan 3D is state-of-the-art joystick. The controller's electronic components never become worn. The rudder twist is the best existing technology I have ever seen. Logotech's goal with the WingMan 3D is simple, to make flight simulation as realistic as possible. The mechanism is effective giving you a more realistic feedback compared to the any other joysticks. I look forward to seeing what advances will be made in that area. While there is learning curve using the new stick technology, once you have become familiar with it you will wonder how you managed without it.IF you are going to buy this product then you won't regret. Highly recommended by many flying aces.
Control on the skies with this product: A+
Grip on the situation: Wonderful
Survival rate in dog fight: Superb


I am planning to buy a new Joystick and I am seriously thinking about Saitek's X52 Pro. If needed, I may add Saitek's Pro Flight rudder pedals in shopping card as well. Rudders in Il-2 series have very important role, no doubt and I have been using keyboard for this purpose http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif

Any recommendations or alternatives?

KingKongRetard
01-27-2007, 03:08 AM
First of all, let me share my fustration, anger, hate, annoyance and warth


Logitech WingMan 3D is state-of-the-art joystick. The controller's electronic components never become worn. The rudder twist is the best existing technology I have ever seen. Logotech's goal with the WingMan 3D is simple, to make flight simulation as realistic as possible. The mechanism is effective giving you a more realistic feedback compared to the any other joysticks. I look forward to seeing what advances will be made in that area. While there is learning curve using the new stick technology, once you have become familiar with it you will wonder how you managed without it.IF you are going to buy this product then you won't regret. Highly recommended by many flying aces.
Control on the skies with this product: A+
Grip on the situation: Wonderful
Survival rate in dog fight: Superb


I am planning to buy a new Joystick and I am seriously thinking about Saitek's X52 Pro. If needed, I may add Saitek's Pro Flight rudder pedals in shopping card as well. Rudders in Il-2 series have very important role, no doubt and I have been using keyboard for this purpose http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif

Any recommendations or alternatives?

Akronnick
01-27-2007, 03:21 AM
If you can afford it, CH products are far superior to Saitek. Saitek is quality stuff though, and if that's all you can afford, it will serve you well. You couldn't pay me to use a Logitech stick.

TimTam27
01-27-2007, 03:44 AM
I have one of those joysticks. It is great except for the fact that my computer crashes if it is ever plugged in.

ytareh
01-27-2007, 04:14 AM
Love my Logitech Extreme 3d Pro!!!!Have been using this one for well over a year.Of course this is my third.I personally reckon that my previous two 'faulty' ones and hundreds of other guys were due to not understanding that TRIM must be adjusted in flight or the plane will lean to one side anyway!!!!
Used a Saitek Evo Platinum briefly a truly NASTY floppy ,flimsy POS.I practically begged the shop to give me another Log.X3dpro after that....
Handgrip is truly anatomical....like, all respect to lefties but I dont care if the Saitek is more comfortable for them ,I want one that fits MY hand.....
Love it so much I bought a spare....
Some day may go the CH route but cant see myself trading up to pedals for a long time /ever ...then again never thought Id fly Full Real either...this game surprises you with its versatility/scalability

leitmotiv
01-27-2007, 05:19 AM
Agree with ytareh. I used to use one 'til I bought a Microsoft SideWinder 2, and it was my favorite stick of the three I had at the time. Just exactly what went wrong with it, and did you try the Logitech Clear Calibration Utility?

BSS_CUDA
01-27-2007, 06:44 AM
I went through 3 Logitech sticks in 4 months, truly a top quality POS if ever was built. the only good thing Logicrap builds is mouse and keyboard. they should stay with the basics because their game controllers bite sack

JG52Uther
01-27-2007, 06:54 AM
After my X45 stick went kaput,about 7 months ago,I have been using a logitech attack 3 stick.Thats the really cheap,non twisty one.In conjunction with my X45 throttle and CH pedals its works great,much more accurate than my X45 stick ever was.20 and a 3 year warranty. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

leitmotiv
01-27-2007, 07:34 AM
The only trouble I ever had with a Logitech was when one developed control problems, I didn't know about the Logitech Clear Calibration Utility, and I threw out what was probably a perfectly good stick. Since then, every time one has developed problems I was able to cure them with the LCCU. The only stick I consider better than the Wingman 3D is the Microsoft SideWinder 2.

otpisani
01-27-2007, 07:43 AM
I have a Logitech FF Pro and now I know why I crash more than fly:

it is neither the plane nor the pilot - just blame it on the joystick. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Deedsundone
01-27-2007, 08:00 AM
I recently got a Saitek aviator to replace my Saitek Evo(fell on the floor and some buttons really don´t repond too well now http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif)and I like it.Oveall it feel beter than the Evo except the handrest,wich got a bit cheapish look of it.I guess you are suppose to not have a handrest on but it felt better for me.Wish they just could have dublicate the Evo handrest,or maybe I should drill some holes in the stick to add it myeself....nah.Anyway the handrest does it job though and all those buttons are nice to have.As the throttle are in the front of the joystick I though it would feel akward to use it but it really don´t.Though IL2 do not support dual throttle I use the second one for pith trim http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Overall i like it.I think it´s a good stick in its pricerange.

horseback
01-27-2007, 08:36 AM
I'm currently (and quite happily) operating on my very first entirely Logitech-free computer.

I learned long ago that the sticks, while quite nice at first (and possessing easily the snappiest designs from an ergonomic as well as an aesthetic point of view), tend to cr@p out on you fairly quickly. The keyboards have software that that interrupts you at the most inconvenient times, and they have this button, usually in the upper right hand corner, that if pressed inadvertantly, will connect you with the Logitech update center no matter what you are doing, and there's no way to disable or remove their invasive doggie doo short of doing a full wipe of your hard drive and reinstalling!

Their mouses are okay, but avoid the software that comes with 'em like the plague they are.

That said, the X52 (I have the plain vanilla X52 as a backup for my CH controllers) is a very nice HOTAS rig for the money, altho I miss all the extra buttons on my CH Pro Throttle hand. My philosophy calls for a fair division of labor between right and left hands, and the X52 overloads the right hand when it should be concentrating on the X-Y axes.

If you have the $300 US, I recommend a Fighterstick or Combatstick with Pro Throttle and Pro Pedals, otherwise, go with the X52 and Pro Pedals, which are 2/3 the cost of the Saitek pedals in the US.

Either way, you'll be light years ahead of where you are with the Logicarp.

cheers

horseback

VW-IceFire
01-27-2007, 08:47 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by KingKong******:
First of all, let me share my fustration, anger, hate, annoyance and warth


Logitech WingMan 3D is state-of-the-art joystick. The controller's electronic components never become worn. The rudder twist is the best existing technology I have ever seen. Logotech's goal with the WingMan 3D is simple, to make flight simulation as realistic as possible. The mechanism is effective giving you a more realistic feedback compared to the any other joysticks. I look forward to seeing what advances will be made in that area. While there is learning curve using the new stick technology, once you have become familiar with it you will wonder how you managed without it.IF you are going to buy this product then you won't regret. Highly recommended by many flying aces.
Control on the skies with this product: A+
Grip on the situation: Wonderful
Survival rate in dog fight: Superb


I am planning to buy a new Joystick and I am seriously thinking about Saitek's X52 Pro. If needed, I may add Saitek's Pro Flight rudder pedals in shopping card as well. Rudders in Il-2 series have very important role, no doubt and I have been using keyboard for this purpose http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif

Any recommendations or alternatives? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
What you've got there seems to be indicative of most Logitech joystick threads I've seen. A few people have had a good stick but most have been generally unhappy with the quality and performance.

I've got a one year old X-52 that looks the same as when I pulled it out of the box. Subjectively it plays and feels just as good then as it does now. Its a good stick. The initial batch had a few bugs but the later ones were fine. X-52 Pro seems to be even better than the original X-52 from the reviews so it should be a great option.

One thing I will say...I went from a light weight Sidewinder Precision Pro 2 to the X-52. My flying was aweful for weeks. If you're used to one stick...especially a much lighter one...give it a bit of time to adjust to having a heaftier stick. Once you've got it down you're just as good or better than before.

KingKongRetard
01-27-2007, 09:18 AM
Thanks everybody for suggestions, recommendation and reading my fustration in a nutshell http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/halo.gif If I know who passed WingMan 3D from their QA department then my stick will become his boyfriend.

Okie dookie, here are the prices. They might look a bit more expensive compare to US/UK prices because these are Finnish prices http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

Saitek X52 Pro Flight Control System = 222.90€
Saitek Pro Flight Rudder Pedals = 141€

CH Products Fighterstick = 146.90€
CH Products CombatStick = 110.90 €
CH Pro Pedals = 129€
CH Products USB Pro Throttle = 145€

I usually fly bombers, and I am not sure if CH Quads are worth to buy.

rnzoli
01-27-2007, 09:19 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by otpisani:
I have a Logitech FF Pro and now I know why I crash more than fly:

it is neither the plane nor the pilot - just blame it on the joystick. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Unfortunetely, I wasted months of flying with this problem. I read all stuff, I did all settings I could - but couldn't hit anything with it. I realized something was terribly wrong when I simply couldn't maintain my sight on the flight leader.

I have a movie clip on my hard drive, which I took to document the crappy nature of my Logitech Wingman 3D Force Feedback. It shows the calibration screen in IL-2, while I try to pull the stick through every axis one by one, in straight line, slowly. What you see on the screen is however, the red and green boxes simply jumping around erratically, hardly resembling the input I am giving. I nearly cried when I realized this. And there was very little to do - it was not the pots, it was the poorly designed internal mechanics.

Logitech(TM) - "We spent all our budget on ergonomic design, including the part we should have set aside for ensuring reliability."

T_O_A_D
01-27-2007, 10:05 AM
I went though a logy every month for a year kept ghetting warranty. Finally got an X-45, gret setup just not the best stick still use its throttle but the stick is just a button bay. I have the ch pedals and a MFFB stick I fly with. Very pleased with what I have going on now, and have for well over 4 years with the x-45 and maybe three years with pedals and two years with theMFFB..

Widowmaker214
01-27-2007, 10:11 AM
Its all about the bank roll...
Several guys in our group have the saitek and love it. THough they do dream of upgrading.
If you can afford it... I suggest CH products.
That is the middle of the road (some say better than Thrustmaster)
I and a bunch of others have Thrustmaster Cougars... I firmly believe that if you can strike someone and kill them with your joystick, you have a cool piece of equipment. LOL. They are solid metal, HEAVY and .. well they just rock.
The downside.. they are expensive..and usually you end up taking them apart and working on them.
If you ask me, Id rather have the cougar and have to tinker with it than anything else. But thats more than some people like.
The saiteks are good sticks..but Id suggest seriously considering CH products.

(and get trackIR.. I consider that to be a must-have right along with a hotas)

TAW_Oilburner
01-27-2007, 10:14 AM
I haven't found another stick that fits my hand as well as logitech. So, what I do is pay 6 bucks for the 2 yr warranty. I'm on my 7th stick in about 1.5 yrs. I really want a full hotas setup...just haven't found one I like.

R988z
01-27-2007, 10:15 AM
I also have a Wingman Force Feedback, and it's utter garbage right out of the box.

Reverted back to my Logitech Attack 3 which is much better and a fraction of the price! It has worn out after a year of moderate use though. Might try a saitek next.

Sergio_101
01-27-2007, 10:36 AM
I have owned a couple of Logitechs.
They replaced my Wingman 3D pro twice.
Three junk sticks, lifespan of a few hours
each. Pot's wear out VERY quickly.

Logitech=Logicrap.

Don't purchase any Logitech product.

Sergio

rnzoli
01-27-2007, 11:27 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by R988z:
I also have a Wingman Force Feedback, and it's utter garbage right out of the box. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
The good thing about them is that they are sooo bad, you have no restraint, and can experiment with them, including building some better stuff out of them http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

If anyone has that piece of garbage hanging around, send it to me please http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

http://web.t-online.hu/rnzoli/joy2.jpg

jolly_magpie
01-27-2007, 11:40 AM
Dang. I have had a Logitech Twisty 3D since 2001, that's six years of nearly daily flying, thousands of hours and it's been dead reliable. Of course I'd jump at an X52 if I could afford it....

KingKongRetard
01-31-2007, 12:51 AM
one more question. Whose throttle module is heavier? Saitek or CH?

HotelBushranger
01-31-2007, 01:33 AM
A Logitech user is a frustrated user http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Attack 3 for me, can't roll completely to the right - in essence I'm just like a Zero.

gkll
01-31-2007, 03:52 AM
I had a logitech 3d stick that became 'wobbly' after very little use.... struggled with it for a while. Took the stick apart, and discovered that the problem is not the inherent design nor the pots, it is how the pots (optical) are fixed to the 'chassis' or base. When reassembling glue them in place with a dab of epoxy or what have you, this will put the precision back into the stick. This ends up being a shocking and huge difference, by feel I doubt that a glued up logitech would be any different than a stock Saitek...

I ended up with the last of the MSFFB2 however this definitely and radically improved the Logitech in the day

RAF74_Raptor
02-01-2007, 06:03 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by KingKong******:
Thanks everybody for suggestions, recommendation and reading my fustration in a nutshell http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/halo.gif If I know who passed WingMan 3D from their QA department then my stick will become his boyfriend.



LMAO go with CH products you will not be dissapointed. I use CH combatstick X52 Throttle and Saitek Pedals