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View Full Version : Airbase CAMPERS: a proposal



CHDT
02-19-2004, 03:14 AM
Hi all,

One of the most boring things with online servers is to play on servers on which a team is just staying on its own airbase, under the protection of the AA defence.

Especially, on large maps: you travel during 15 minutes to go to the enemy airbase, just to be shot down by the Flak or by ten enemy aircrafts staying together like shy rabbits.

Wouldn't it be possible to make an exclusion zone around the airbases (for instance 5 kilometers) on which the kills won't bring any points.

THis would solve this boring problem and also bring a much more realistic game: the aircrafts would start, leave their airbase and fly their mission, not just staying without any tactical justification on their homebase.

So as a resume: no points for kills over airbases.

Cheers,

CHDT
02-19-2004, 03:14 AM
Hi all,

One of the most boring things with online servers is to play on servers on which a team is just staying on its own airbase, under the protection of the AA defence.

Especially, on large maps: you travel during 15 minutes to go to the enemy airbase, just to be shot down by the Flak or by ten enemy aircrafts staying together like shy rabbits.

Wouldn't it be possible to make an exclusion zone around the airbases (for instance 5 kilometers) on which the kills won't bring any points.

THis would solve this boring problem and also bring a much more realistic game: the aircrafts would start, leave their airbase and fly their mission, not just staying without any tactical justification on their homebase.

So as a resume: no points for kills over airbases.

Cheers,

CHDT
02-19-2004, 03:16 AM
I forgot: this simple solution would also spoil a lot the easy joy of the vulchers http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Cheers,

Schmouddle-WT
02-19-2004, 03:37 AM
Uh,come on restriction is not a good way to tech pilots how to fight.
In my opinion, there is always a chance to score a kill even over enemy airbase.If there is a horde of shy-but-biting rabbits, just pick one in 700kmh and zoom out..Wait a while...Then take second...if there are enough of hunters, you are going to pick the one by one.
Proper using of tactics is the skill.

CHDT
02-19-2004, 03:58 AM
I didn't say "no kills on airbase", I said "no points for kills on airbase" http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Btw, of course this could stay as an option for the host.

I simply think it could be an easy way to see players flying in a more realistic way: not staying fixed on their homebases, but flying over the map to find ground or air targets.

Cheers,

MandMs
02-19-2004, 04:28 AM
It is rather boring on a server that has no opposing EA. If the campers refuse to leave the security blanket of their AA, then say bye-bye server for there are sure to be more daring pilots on others.

Now I don't mind a CAP of a couple of a/c to stop vulching.http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

I eat the red ones last.

SE_Aetos
02-19-2004, 05:17 AM
Looking at it the other way...

I was on a server the other night and someone was complaining that we were camping above our air base for AA protection...

Well, There were enemy aircraft over our airbase... So should I fly off looking for other targets or should I take care of the target that is before me?? Well, as you can guess, more and more emeny planes would come and the team I was one never had a chance to move away from our own air base... (trying to take care of vulchers) As a result we got called campers...

The above happens most often when the opposing bases are too close together.

I do see your point though. I guess boom and zoom like the other poster said, or try to draw them away. Or for up a bomber attack and take out the AA guns. Then have a hay day with them. Or Don't attack and draw them out. They will have to get bord sooner or later...

SE_Aetos

CHDT
02-19-2004, 05:32 AM
The main problem, online, even in coops or on scripted servers, is that the aircrafts fly with no real mission to do.

In real life, an aircraft usually starts from its airbase, as a part of a organized aerial group, with a planified flightroad and a mission to accomplish.

Online, what do you see? Airbase campers or aircrafts starting isolated and flying everywhere on the map without a real mission.

FB is a great game like Half-Life. It it could be possible to transform it with more rules like Counter-Strike, it would become a more realistic, a more interesting and simply an even greater game.

Cheers,

CO_Eagle_31stFG
02-19-2004, 05:36 AM
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Keep in mind it's not really considered vulching if the enemy are over their base staying there. Vulching is when the enemy stays over your base for the easy kills.

JaBo_HH--Gotcha
02-19-2004, 06:20 AM
Hi,

now don't get this wrong, but what do you expect when you're attacking a protected airfield..


In our games we usually tend to have lot's of AAA around the airbase for obvious reasons.
In case a vulcher comes along he's free to proceed if he can persuade the 8-10 AAA guns (50% small calibre) to let him pass. After that he's free to vulch since he, honestly, deserved it.

Now if you know that the enemy base is protected AND in addition there're guys sitting around, using the AAA as a Early Warning and Damaging Radar for the fun of having easy kills there're two solutions:

1) (the obvious one) DON'T GO THERE ! Wait until they get bored. In online games (where I was called an (no joke) "Unprofessional" Missionmaker because the airbases were 15 minutes away from each other) most kids fly for pure DF crap (calling themselves aces in LAs, yak3s and zeros) . So if you stay away from their base, chances are high they get BORED, and start to come after you.

2) The mission is crap and that's the reason why a lot of players prefer scripted servers where killing ground targets at a certain position will win you the game (earning you confidence and maybe even pts if interested..)

I must say that I actually enjoy doing attack runs on airbases which are heavily defended in order to first knock out the AAA (even if having casualities) before returning and do some proper dogfights over the enemy base and finally going to Phase:Omega and never let them lift off again (since they obviously were unable to protect their base properly... )

I don't think there's anything meant to be changed but the attitude of the player to the current tactical situation.

And you can't force players who are not as confident as you or whatever reasons they have to fly away and be your prey.

Sometimes using a fast interceptor as a bait can be the solution to lure away the enemy but this is to much detail now.

Join some Scripted servers (join ours next time *g*) and I think you might enjoy it.

Salute !

rbstr44
02-19-2004, 06:47 AM
I thought the title of your thread meant that we might get one of these modeled as an object to use in FMB. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

http://images.traderonline.com/img/dealer/RVAMERICA/RVAMR20279_1.jpg

---

Seriously, though, some people will not come out and fight until they are sure they have an advantage of some kind--this is their right, nonetheless. Everyone has a right to change servers if the competitive environment (i.e., map/mission set-up, aircraft choice mix, number of players on a side, team cohesion or lack of, etc.) does not suit their own style.

[This message was edited by rbstr44 on Thu February 19 2004 at 06:03 AM.]

TgD Thunderbolt56
02-19-2004, 09:29 AM
I think Gotcha summed it up pretty well, but depending on which server you're flying on there are quite a few good tactics. I know you are NO rookie CHDT, so please don't take this as criticism.

1. Stay just out of range of the AAA and draw them out. (just like a kid with a lollipop, they won't be able to resist forever!)

2. Pound the ground targets and force them to come to you. (obviously, this only works if completing the mission objectives and/or winning the map is important to them.)

3. Attack their base with a vengeance! Take out the AAA first (even if a death or two result) and return with a wingman and simply maintain air superiority over their base. They'll switch bases to avoid the "vulchers" and come straight from the secondary base to reap their revenge.

The bottom line is, in most online scenarios these days, the wise teams really DO fly CAP over their base. A smart team will not only rely on their AAA, but will have some (or at least one) pilot at 3000m+ over their base to prevent the "bored-beelinefromtheirbasetoyours-specialized-vulchers.

TB



http://home.earthlink.net/~aclzkim1/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/il2sig2.jpg

crazyivan1970
02-19-2004, 10:23 AM
I donno, from my experiances so called base campers die first and AAA usually not much of help either.

V!
Regards,

http://blitzpigs.com/forum/images/smiles/smokin.gif

VFC*Crazyivan aka VFC*HOST

http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/coop-ivan.jpg

Kozhedub: In combat potential, the Yak-3, La-7 and La-9 fighters were indisputably superior to the Bf-109s and Fw-190s. But, as they say, no matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down.

RCAF_Hawk2
02-19-2004, 11:26 AM
I love it when they camp for sevral reasons.1 because there giving me freadom to to get my attack angle and hieght right .2. I enjoy bombing anyway so there giving me an excuss to bomb in a dogfight serv. 3. If there flying around there base there not stafing mine. 4. AAA add a few points to your score so there putting me closer to more targets S~

<BR><BR><IMG SRC="http://www16.brinkster.com/hawkspage/hawkssig.jpg"><BR>Your not getting my buffalo wings <BR></span></td>

Mercyful_BR2000
02-20-2004, 05:39 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by rbstr44:
I thought the title of your thread meant that we might get one of these modeled as an object to use in FMB. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

http://images.traderonline.com/img/dealer/RVAMERICA/RVAMR20279_1.jpg

---

Seriously, though, some people will not come out and fight until they are sure they have an advantage of some kind--this is their right, nonetheless. Everyone has a right to change servers if the competitive environment (i.e., map/mission set-up, aircraft choice mix, number of players on a side, team cohesion or lack of, etc.) does not suit their own style.

[This message was edited by rbstr44 on Thu February 19 2004 at 06:03 AM.]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

S!

This one have cable?
he he he he he he.

&lt;O_

Zen--
02-20-2004, 09:26 AM
Rbstr44

LMAO

-Zen-
Formerly TX-Zen

rick_475
02-20-2004, 09:54 AM
I find it ridiculous that so many people want more rules, because they find war unfair. This is war damn it, if a team plays defense, then fly the heavy bombers at high altitude, or co-ordinate an offense with your buddies. If you don't succeed, then too bad you just failed. Sometimes in war you have all the disadvantages on your side, but you have to find a way to accomplish the mission and survive. If you don't survive, don't be a bad loser and stop crying about it.

porcupine1
02-20-2004, 10:03 AM
a more realistic solution. team up and send out a small sortie to disable thier AAA. half can fly air to ground the other half escort. three short missions like this and thier air cover is gone forever!

CHDT
02-20-2004, 12:23 PM
"I find it ridiculous that so many people want more rules, because they find war unfair."

You didn't understand me at all http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

In fact, in a military context, you get a precise mission, you start at a certain hour, in an organized group, you must get on the objectif still in an organized group, destoy a precise target or accomplish a precise task and get back home, if possible still in an organized manner. The military way of doing things.

But currently in FB, in spite of it is a military aviation sim, virtual pilots most of the time fly not in the army way but in the civil way: alone, not in group, without time parameters, without specific targets or tasks etc...

Some more rules (of course, as an option for the host) could perhaps transform FB in a more realistic way online, like Half-Life was greatly improved by the rules of Counter Strike.

Cheers,

Jetbuff
02-20-2004, 12:40 PM
CHDT, rules won't fix this. Maybe you're just flying with the wrong crowd that's all?

I regularly join DFs, scripted or otherwise, where there is not only a mission objective but actual teamwork to achieve it. From escort to intercept, ground-attack to CAP, I've seen it all and all without comms outside of chat. This experience is only enhanced when flying with my squad using voice-comms.

http://members.rogers.com/teemaz/sig.jpg

rick_475
02-20-2004, 01:41 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by CHDT:
"I find it ridiculous that so many people want more rules, because they find war unfair."

You didn't understand me at all http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

In fact, in a military context, you get a precise mission, you start at a certain hour, in an organized group, you must get on the objectif still in an organized group, destoy a precise target or accomplish a precise task and get back home, if possible still in an organized manner. The military way of doing things.

But currently in FB, in spite of it is a military aviation sim, virtual pilots most of the time fly not in the army way but in the civil way: alone, not in group, without time parameters, without specific targets or tasks etc...

Some more rules (of course, as an option for the host) could perhaps transform FB in a more realistic way online, like Half-Life was greatly improved by the rules of Counter Strike.

Cheers,<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

To me, someone who protects his airfield from vulchers is organized. If the guy enjoys circling around his airfield for 2 hours, I don't care. If the entire team decides to circle around their airfield for 2 hours then maybe I'll go play somewhere else or I'll ask them to switch to offense and I'll play defense. Setting zones in which you don't get points for kills doesn't make sense to me.

Anyway (another idea from Rick!), it's too easy to get kills in FB. I play a campaign of 180 missions in full real and I end up with 300+ kills. Why not include the "confirm kill" option?! Just like in WW2, someone had to confirm your kills. In FB the padlock system works only under 2.5 or 3km I believe, why not make a little program that will detect friendly aircrafts within that 3.0km radius (by using the code from padlock!). No buddies around = no kill. That would be realistic, there's nothing unfair about it, team effort would increase and that should make some people happy. And half the method for it is already coded!!!

Jazz-Man
02-20-2004, 04:47 PM
this reminds me of a Day of Defeat conversation a long time ago... is sitting in a building with an MG, as they would really do, camping or just smart play? I say its smart play...

On the other hand, if the guys you're flying against aren't leaving their airfield... well there are 30 other servers up and running at a time on HL, so why not give one of them a try? Eventually those people will come to realise that they're lame for never comming out, and maybe change their ways http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

S!
William "Jazz-Man" Katz
Squadron Batman
RAF No.74 Squadron
http://home.sou.edu/~katzw/images/signature.jpg

tHeBaLrOgRoCkS
02-21-2004, 10:38 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by CHDT:
The main problem, online, even in coops or on scripted servers, is that the aircrafts fly with no real mission to do.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I Have spent some time with FBDaemon and its Succesor and if your on a scripted server with out mission objectives then your host isnt using the script to its full potential. The whole reason FBD came about was to add objectives to dogfight missions and lend some purpose to the whole event.

Trouble I have found is that even if you set up an objective so few people RTFB that they never even realise there is one !! Shape up people it takes but a minit to read your hosts brief and hosts running the script need to use it for more than just telling players how many bloody bullets hit or missed! All the aircraft in FB were designed for a specific job so lets give people an opertunity to use them for that purpose you want P-51 then your bloody well gona fly bomber escort and thats final !! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif