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View Full Version : why PF died so early.my opinion.



aminx
12-23-2004, 09:25 AM
Might as well list the reasons with the hope that the same mistake is not repeated with BOB and other projects:

1)Total absence of a real dynamic hystoric campaign from pearl all the way up.We repeatedly asked for same during the year and got no reply.eg mig alley and the new BOB anounced by gmx media.The so called dynamic campaigns we have are not so,these are not dynamic campaigns in the true sense.
2)No carrier born flyable torp bombers.We are all sick and tired of repeating the same thing all year,no reply or unconvincing arguments.
3)At least half the maps are missing.
4)Flight physics of some planes need to be overhauled and re-overhauled.
5)Ships missing.
6)carriers missing.
7)recon planes do not spot or warn.
8)Missing flyable fighters from early period of conflict.
9)No hystoric missions.
10) pamphlet with a detailed description of the planes and battles and some insight into the conflict.
11)Allow open architecture for the planes you cant handle and let others finnish off all the missing cockpits even if not perfectly correct hystorically.

I hope other members will comment and add to the above and in the meantime i would like to conclude this input with how let down i feel about PF,if there was competition they would have never dared release this sim.
aminx

AFJ_Locust
12-23-2004, 09:33 AM
Agree with most of that cept #11

JG53Frankyboy
12-23-2004, 09:42 AM
i dont thin the PTO is dead , but there are realy missing points in release.
im an 100% online player, offline the whole series of IL2 games is boring in my eyes (but thats very personal !)

but still online, making missions, the absence of specific maps and sometime planes are annoying. when you want stick a little bit historical .

USAAF campaigns are realy lacking maps. also the miss of more Salomons stuff is downgrading this game heavily. the whole year 1943 is a joke ! you can actually use only Tarawa .
also some japanese AI planes are missing (this Ki-46 is close to useless , very bad choice to put in ! ) - so allies havent much to shoot at - still only G4M1 in 1945 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif .

if the Torpplanes are flyable ore not, i dont care, ther are there as AI at least.

No601_prangster
12-23-2004, 09:51 AM
Well guys I'm sure Oleg will have learned his lesson.

Between the litigious US aircraft manufactures and the disgruntalled and very vocal American forum winners I'm sure he'll never make the mistake of doing the Pacific again. After all he's got more than enougth to do with BOB the Med and a return the Eastern Front.

Don't worry though I'm sure some US based developer will be able to give you all you want from a Pacific flight sim. Maybe EA games or Mircrosoft?

By the way this is not meant to offend the vast majority of Americans on this forum who support and constructively criticise this game.

sapre
12-23-2004, 09:54 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by aminx:
Might as well list the reasons with the hope that the same mistake is not repeated with BOB and other projects:

1)Total absence of a real dynamic hystoric campaign from pearl all the way up.We repeatedly asked for same during the year and got no reply.eg mig alley and the new BOB anounced by gmx media.The so called dynamic campaigns we have are not so,these are not dynamic campaigns in the true sense.
2)No carrier born flyable torp bombers.We are all sick and tired of repeating the same thing all year,no reply or unconvincing arguments.
3)At least half the maps are missing.
4)Flight physics of some planes need to be overhauled and re-overhauled.
5)Ships missing.
6)carriers missing.
7)recon planes do not spot or warn.
8)Missing flyable fighters from early period of conflict.
9)No hystoric missions.
10) pamphlet with a detailed description of the planes and battles and some insight into the conflict.
11)Allow open architecture for the planes you cant handle and let others finnish off all the missing cockpits even if not perfectly correct hystorically.

I hope other members will comment and add to the above and in the meantime i would like to conclude this input with how let down i feel about PF,if there was competition they would have never dared release this sim.
aminx <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Can you show me a source that proves PF is dead, not your personal opinion?

x__CRASH__x
12-23-2004, 09:59 AM
Yes, please don't start lumping "Americans" into some whining sterotype about BoB. Besides, you don't even know if the author is from the U.S.

I like what we got. I want more, but I'm a patient guy. I mean, who knew that U.S. aircraft manufacturers were so greedy?

I agree with a few of the points made, but like Frankyboy, I'm 100% online, and think the campaigns offline are just boring. Thats MY personal opinion.

aminx
12-23-2004, 10:00 AM
thanks reply

the idea behind number 11 as a solution is as follow:
CFS2:When the sim was released in 1999 i rushed to buy it thinking it would be an up to date of AOTP or 1942 war in the pacific and everyone just dropped the game right from the start for some of the above reasons,it had none of the qualities or features of the 2 sims mentioned dynamic campaign was even none existent missing planes etc.Fine,the cd's remained lying somewhere in the house for years until suddenly due to the open architecture feature and people beeing able to afford internet,new sights, etc. we found ourselves engulfed with a huge range of addons,planes,effects,this and that.Result,everyone came back and started playing,its still alive today with sights rich in downloads and a robust well manered community in the forums ready to help you out.
Since Maddox games has proven to be out of touch with the pacific conflict and the significance it has hystorically to the american public who do remember their hystory and still read about it and will always do so i cannot think of a more practical and economic solution.It would be free,as simple as that.
aminx

SKULLS_Exec01
12-23-2004, 10:11 AM
Who said its dead?? I hope its just getting its second wind!! ;-)
But I might add to the list:
Flyable Cats and heavies

Chuck_Older
12-23-2004, 10:14 AM
Um, how long has PF been released worldwide?

aminx
12-23-2004, 10:14 AM
PRANGSTER
---------

YOu are the guy who developed the lovely mosquito for oleg months back ,great job, really looking forward to flying it in BOB.However please take note that unless he includes a real and i repeat a real dynamic campaign like the one which we will see in Feb of next year it will be a serious set back again,head my word.
As for another company like EA electronics which is American and therefore know what must be in the game and how to handle trade mark laws we agree with you entirely,as a matter of fact we were the other day in our local store discussing and looking at their range of games and tittles.Their "dynamic campaign"in NASCAR is excellent and you can be sure they will include the missing cockpits no matter what for the hystoric planes,but will they consider our plight?Is there a market to justify the expense?they know.
aminx

aminx
12-23-2004, 10:17 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chuck_Older:
Um, how long has PF been released worldwide? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
12 october in FRANCE and Germany.
22 october in Italy,Switzerland.
30 October USA.

etc.
aminx

Stiglr
12-23-2004, 10:17 AM
'e's no' dead; 'e's restin'.

-Monty Python

aminx
12-23-2004, 10:22 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Stiglr:
'e's no' dead; 'e's _restin'._

-Monty Python <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


STIGLR
------
I NEED YOU!,what is the best book on BOB in your opinion, we were just discussing buying one for our book collection this evening.
cheers
aminx

Chuck_Older
12-23-2004, 10:23 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by aminx:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chuck_Older:
Um, how long has PF been released worldwide? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
12 october in FRANCE and Germany.
22 october in Italy,Switzerland.
30 October USA.

etc.
aminx <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thank you. S0 let's call it two months old or thereabouts.

You think PF is dead already? Instead of reasons why it died, maybe you should tell us why you think it's 'dead'

VOL_Mountain
12-23-2004, 10:26 AM
IMHO; PF is "The Unfinished Sim(phony)"

The original post has many valid points except #11 which I don't agree with.

PF lacks diversity especially on the Japanese side. And YES, both sides need carrier based torpedo bombers. Additional maps are needed such as the Philipines and areas of China (Yep, would like to fly some early China vs. Japan and later AVG battles there)

I still like PF but its not easy to create an on line war with the tools we have to work with. Right now its better suited to off line play.

Tactical Air Combat - Home Page (http://www.242sqn.com/OurSkiesForums/index.php?act=idx)

TAGERT.
12-23-2004, 10:27 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by aminx:
Might as well list the reasons with the hope that the same mistake is not repeated with BOB and other projects: <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Mistake? Let's see.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by aminx:
1)Total absence of a real dynamic hystoric campaign from pearl all the way up.We repeatedly asked for same during the year and got no reply.eg mig alley and the new BOB anounced by gmx media.The so called dynamic campaigns we have are not so,these are not dynamic campaigns in the true sense. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Agreed 100%! If BoB wants to sell it will have to focus on the OFFLINE play, because it wont be able to compete ONLINE vs IL2-PF. In that IL2-PF will have more planes to choose from. That statement is based on the idea that eye-candy alone is not enough for people to leave one sim for another.. And to date only thing that BoB has any proof of is more complex 3D models.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by aminx:
2)No carrier born flyable torp bombers.We are all sick and tired of repeating the same thing all year,no reply or unconvincing arguments. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Agreed 100% a pacific sim without torp planes is pretty worthless, but, in light of the fact that the dynamic campain probally wouldnt asign you any ships to torp it probally dont mater! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif As for the reply, well, we all know now why it didnt come.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by aminx:
3)At least half the maps are missing. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Ah? Ill take your word for it. But I dont recal any maps being promised that we dont have?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by aminx:
4)Flight physics of some planes need to be overhauled and re-overhauled. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Disagree 100%! Is the FM perfect? Nope, and no flight sim FM ever was,is, or will be perfect! That combined with the fact that you have presented NOTHING to suport your claim.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by aminx:
5)Ships missing. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Disagree 100%! In that I never expected every ship to be modled

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by aminx:
6)carriers missing. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Disagree 100%! In that I never expected every carrier to be modled

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by aminx:
7)recon planes do not spot or warn. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Not sure about that thus n/a

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by aminx:
8)Missing flyable fighters from early period of conflict. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Dissagree 100%!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by aminx:
9)No hystoric missions. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Dissagree 100%! There is a peral harbor senario

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by aminx:
10) pamphlet with a detailed description of the planes and battles and some insight into the conflict. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Dissagree 100%! If you want a history book, go buy one!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by aminx:
11)Allow open architecture for the planes you cant handle and let others finnish off all the missing cockpits even if not perfectly correct hystorically. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>DISAGREE 100,000,000.00%! That in and of itselt would be the death of this flight sim ONLINE! If they could make it open for OFFLINE and not ONLINE I would be ok with that, but the only planes that should be allowed ONLINE are the ones blessed by Oleg.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by aminx:
I hope other members will comment and add to the above and in the meantime i would like to conclude this input with how let down i feel about PF,if there was competition they would have never dared release this sim.
aminx <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>In the hopes of puting some prespective on the topic, name one WWII flight sim that OVERALL comes close to IL2-PF! The answer is NONE! Sure you can find another sim that might do 1 of the 10,000 thing needed to be done better than IL2-PF (Targetware is a good example) but NONE that come close to doing all the things as well as IL2-PF! NONE!

Capt._Tenneal
12-23-2004, 10:41 AM
If Oleg still has, as his goal, to make WW 2 flight sims with a GLOBAL scope, he'll have to go back to the Pacific sometime in the future, even in the BOB-series.

LilHorse
12-23-2004, 10:52 AM
PFFFT!!!111one! It ain't dead. What nonsense. Offline campaign stuff is a waste of time IMO. Online is where it's at. And a sure fire way to feck that up would be to allow for #11. Just an invitation for every cheat and hack or geek with his biased/skewed data to justify the creation of X-wing fighters cloaked to look like WWII planes. Not to mention a ridiculous number of combinations of 3rd party models and settings you'd have to wade through online just to find a server to fly in.

If EA or somebody makes a game more to your liking then go ahead, knock yourself out playing it. PF, while not perfect, is the best there is out there. I'm quite happy with it.

Sakai9745
12-23-2004, 11:00 AM
Dead? As with Chuck, I still think it's a tad too early to make that determination yet. I'm still hopeful that that some of the missing elements will eventually come into fruition. And while I have been vocal about some of the faults that I felt needed some inprovement on, I am at least grateful that Oleg took a crack at the PTO.

pcpilot_MGG
12-23-2004, 11:01 AM
I have to agree with Tagert. What sim comes close to PF? Answer: NONE! I hoped for carriers since IL2 first came out...GOT 'EM! Flak, Bombers, ships, islands, dynamic campaign, missions and skins out the kazoo! And you aint happy...boohoo... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/cry.gif

SKULLS_Exec01
12-23-2004, 11:16 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sakai9745:
Dead? As with Chuck, I still think it's a tad too early to make that determination yet. I'm still hopeful that that some of the missing elements will eventually come into fruition. And while I have been vocal about some of the faults that I felt needed some inprovement on, I am at least grateful that Oleg took a crack at the PTO. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yep, I could not agree more - Its easy to complain about this missing or that not correct, but PF is a LOT better then the original il-2 and the support from Oleg is better then anyone else is giving!!!
Olegs delopment group communication skills are his one draw back, but sure they are mostly to busy programming for that anyway (which is where we need them) - IMO

DarkCanuck420
12-23-2004, 11:18 AM
Is it dead no. its not starting to smell yet so thats my proof. however as a newcommer and after doing some searching and reading reviews. i have found out what i had been thinking. PF is more like an over priced expansion pack. im getting fb/aep to get the rest of the game. i should be happy with a 50 dollar game and not have to buy another 2 games to get the whole deal. corners have been cut. dont get me wrong the game is a blast, its not dead but it does leave an airstrip of space for improvement.

Da_Godfatha
12-23-2004, 11:23 AM
I agree with you on everything but #11.
This game is not up to the standards that 1C and Mr. Maddox has set. Too many missing aircraft and maps. The AI is worse that the original IL-2 AI. Lets face it, this game is more for the American and Australian customers. These two Nations bore the brunt of the fighting there. (China also, but no Chinese maps!) I live in Germany , and alot of German players will admit that the Pacific does not interest them. So naturaly the most Vocal people will be Americans.

I do not know who dropped the ball on the copyrights, and I really don't care. I am willing to wait just a LITTLE longer for the promised patch(please no B$ about a FREE addon, I just want what the box says should be inside and the few bugs fixed). But I do know, I will wait and not buy any Ubi/1C flight sim again untill I have looked thru the forums. BTW, I pre-ordered mine like alot of us did.

Just my 2 cents.

kh0503
12-23-2004, 11:24 AM
Aminx,

Well, you hit the nail on the head in one respect:
There is NO competition!


Perfectly happy flying my F4F-3 from the Enterprise in 1942 missions.

S~

kh

TonyPiech
12-23-2004, 11:25 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by aminx:
4)Flight physics of some planes need to be overhauled and re-overhauled.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Disagree 100%! Is the FM perfect? Nope, and no flight sim FM ever was,is, or will be perfect! That combined with the fact that you have presented NOTHING to suport your claim.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Tagert, believe the FM in the Zero is probably in error when diving or climbing. This erroneous "uber-feature" of the Zero was discussed in several posts on this forum.

Mr5by5
12-23-2004, 11:26 AM
Go Gamer has it on sale for $25 american in it's 24 hour madness sale right now. I just bought it, and from where I sit, the game just came out. I'm sad to read the starter of this thread's post, if all 10 of those are true, then they dropped the ball.

Let's be honest, they could do a lot to make the offline play really exciting, but that is not the strength of this sim.

SgtBriggs
12-23-2004, 11:27 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
Agreed 100% a pacific sim without torp planes is pretty worthless
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

your wrong...its worth $39.99 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

and i do have to say that even thoe PF does have some problems, it has been the best purchase i have made in quite some time.

as far as it being dead, maybe in your dreams.. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Chivas
12-23-2004, 11:43 AM
IL-2/FB/AEP/PF is one of the cheapest entertainments you will find in your life time. People complaining about spending a few dollars for years of game play amaze me. It would take a very long time to fly all 200+ aircraft in all scenarios. I've been flyin this sim for three+ years and have hardly scratched the surface of the game.

TAGERT.
12-23-2004, 11:53 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TonyPiech:
Tagert, believe the FM in the Zero is probably in error when diving or climbing. This erroneous "uber-feature" of the Zero was discussed in several posts on this forum. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>To which I say once again.. Is the FM perfect? Nope, and no flight sim FM ever was,is, or will be perfect! That combined with the fact that you have presented NOTHING to suport your claim! Dont get me wrong.. Im sure there is something wrong with EVERY FM in this simulation! To what degree? I dont know, in that I dont have the data aval on every aspect of every plane. All Im saying is peoples *feeling* are worthless when it comes to making the call as to what is and is not real with regards to FM's.

TAGERT.
12-23-2004, 11:56 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SgtBriggs:
your wrong...its worth $39.99 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>LOL, but seriosly, your missing the point. Point being it is hard to re-create some of the key battles in the pacific without torp planes.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SgtBriggs:
and i do have to say that even thoe PF does have some problems, it has been the best purchase i have made in quite some time. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Agreed 100%

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SgtBriggs:
as far as it being dead, maybe in your dreams.. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Some people are just never happy.. No mater how much Oleg GIVES us people will not be happy.. It is just human nature! I personaly would like some MORE things.. But wanting more does not change the fact that AS IS this sim is the best WWII sim ever produced bar none!

VW-IceFire
12-23-2004, 12:00 PM
I think PF is the icing on the cake of an extremely good and successful series.

If anything it'll end with the addition of some aircraft that served on many fronts.

I look forward to the competion of all of these aircraft, the addons of a few more new maps, scenarios, and the creation of plenty of new missions and coops. When BoB, the Med, and the Eastern Front come...things will be great.

I also wonder if after BoB, we'll be heading back to the East.

DayGlow
12-23-2004, 12:05 PM
Pacific Fighters is dead? Does that mean that I should stop playing and uninstall it?

SgtBriggs
12-23-2004, 12:26 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
LOL, but seriosly, your missing the point. Point being it is hard to re-create some of the key battles in the pacific without torp planes.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
no, im not missing the point, i'm just being a smart@ss. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

i agree that in the Pacific you do very much need torp planes. and i was sad to see that we didnt get them as Flyable. But im not going to let that be the end all for me.

GoToAway
12-23-2004, 12:27 PM
I don't think that I've ever seen amnix do anything but complain and slam Oleg's efforts.

Does PF have flaws? Certainly.
Do some people revel in making a mountain out of a molehill? Absolutely. This thread is proof of that.

AWL_Spinner
12-23-2004, 12:28 PM
I think mebbe PF should only ever have been a pay-for expansion to FB/AEP or distributed in some sort of gold pack with all the content.

I think the stand-alone nature has opened it up to far too much criticism which couldn't very well be levelled at the combined install. A lack of depth is not something that could be said of FB/AEP/PF and maybe people's expectations would have been more realistic/manageable. I love the combined package I have, there's SO MUCH in there - in the last month or so I've learned the full mission builder and level bombing, for instance. Bang, a whole new set of experiences. This is the best value product line I've ever participated in, bar none. It's huge. PF standalone was a gamble that didn't really need to be taken, IMHO.

I constantly shake my head in amazement with the whining about ONE missing plane or ONE missing map that's dogged PF since it's release. If it was the combined install they were referring to, I'd say these folks have no imagination or invention to explore what the sim has to offer. Perhaps with it being a standalone, there's some milage in their arguments. I dunno, I'm a very happy combined installer.

However, as usual, the good guys in the gaming industry get into trouble for trying to be all things to all men.

Cheers, Spinner

sithgod
12-23-2004, 12:36 PM
Flying online has never interested me and I doubt that I ever will. For me its offline dynamic campaigns all the way. Take them out and as good as the game is I wouldn't play it. All the posting about PF has convinced me to not buy it. At least at this time. While there has been constructive posts both for and against PF. The overall impression I get and from reading online reviews from places like gamespot is that the game shipped to soon. It is incomplete and needed more time. There is alot of controversy over PF and not just the U.S. planes.

So for now I am going to buy something else. Wait and see what happens. Buying AEP from the Ubi-store has not been a very fun experience and add to that PF isn't in the stores here. I might just skip it and wait and see what happens with BoB. I still think Il2 is the best of its kind. But this whole PF thing just seems like a big mess and has polorised the Il2 community.

Dunkelgrun
12-23-2004, 12:42 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by aminx:
PRANGSTER
---------

YOu are the guy who developed the lovely mosquito for oleg months back ,great job, really looking forward to flying it in BOB. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If BoB ships with the Mosquito then it's going straight back to the shop. Some people also think that they might get one or two US planes in BoB as well - go and read some history books.
There were a few RAF Grumman Martlets (aka Wildcats) in the far north of Scotland and that's it, which does not justify their inclusion into BoB any more than adding the Mosquito or Lancaster.
The expansions to BoB will begin to add some more aircraft, but by the time some of the plane-whiners see their favourite aircraft in the sim even the youngsters here will be old men http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif.

As for PF, it's not dead, just unfinished. Hopefully it will get finished in due time.

Cheers!

DarkCanuck420
12-23-2004, 12:57 PM
someone said the strength of the game in online play. that is not the point of a simulation! it is supposed to be historical not deathmatch. there is far less structure and objectives in an online dogfight, then there is supposed to be for the single player missions. they should have fouced on the single player a lot more. good online play will naturally follow. online play is supposed to extend the life and replay value of the game.

the game is not dead, we have the technology, we can rebuild him, i mean it.
===============================================

CRSutton
12-23-2004, 01:12 PM
Well as an off line player, I have to admit that off line play is pretty tedious. I love the new A20 and B25 (as well as the other new planes), but the campaigns are limited as well as the maps. In spite of the patch my planes in NG are still crashing into mountains. AI is not great as well. Enemy fighters are smarter but I you jump to a gunners seat, the AI pilot always breaks formation and takes such wild evasvive manuevers that it is impossible to use the guns.

Quick battle has not been improved since the original IL2 came out and it is sorely needed. Why can't I start a quick battle with more separation between the combatants or on the **** ground for a change? Or set the planes to attack a different variety of targets (ships). Or set the AA fire to different levels of intensity.

There is no real campaign for the P39, P38, P40, very few single missions other than practice carrier landings, and that is a shame. I know that we are getting more in the patch but I really don't think the game was worth 50 clams.

Bearcat99
12-23-2004, 01:23 PM
Tales of the emise of PF are greatly over exaggerated. It is far from dead... while like Tagert I agree the campaigns could be better and we could use a torp bomber or 2.... or 3 or 4... I also agree with the rest of what he said...( http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif) Thus sim is far from dead. Just look at the jam packed Hyperlobby EVERY NIGHT... look at the number of members on this forum with post counts under 500.... which in itself says nothing about their sim experience but even if you rule out oldtimers who have returned... there are a lot of new posters here.. there are about 10 posts forum wide in the past 2 or 3 days alone........ that I have seen.. and Im sure I missed quite a few... from poster saying thewy are new.

PF dead? Hardly....

NoBunny
12-23-2004, 01:26 PM
There is nothing exciting about the Pacific in all gaming genres. It's the kiss of death - Also stay away from Nam genres too.

It's time for Olg to give us the sorce code so the community can keep (or rather make) PF interesting.

Atomic_Marten
12-23-2004, 01:32 PM
Campaign is the weakest part IMO. I have flown all 1941 IJA campaign and in over 40 missions all I got is three type of missions: scramble, strike escort and fighter sweep. And all that would be just O.K. if that three types of missions are not limited to three locations (for example strike escort missions are against one specific enemy location on the map all the time) only. Good thing is that I have remembered every stone en-route..

Brain32
12-23-2004, 01:34 PM
No ships? - I dont have the time to read what is written after U.S.S. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
No early conflict planes? - The conflict between Imperial Japan & USA begun AFTER the pearl Harbor attack - December 7 1941(A6M2-1940, P-40x-1941,etc)
Half Maps missing? - I'm not much into war in Pacific but we have all/most? maps for great historic battles(Midway,New Guinea,Iwo Jima etc.)
As for FM I would say that the only people I would grant to have more authority on this issue than people who are making this sim are the real WW2 pilots.
When/If open architecture becomes a reality I'll be the first one NOT downloading that addons
ONLY thing that bothers me about this sim is AI, wich I still believe can get improved(but I'll get over it http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Wilburnator
12-23-2004, 01:47 PM
I personally think the fact that there are two versions of the game that people are trying to play online is a HUGE problem. Experienced hyperlobby players go install 3.02b, but at ubi.com when new players come in to try online play,some servers are 3.01 and some are 3.02b. There is no way to tell which is which without attempting to join one and waiting to find out if you can connect, unless the host posts the version in the room name. I realize it's not all that hard to figure out how to install 3.02b if you do a little reading, but new players come in not knowing which patch they need... and hearing that many people are having to reinstall the gameafter a botched 3.02b patch intallation (or actually having to reinstall themselves). The fact that it's described as a BETA patch for advanced users keeps many players from attemting the upgrade. They get frustrated and give up, often, I think, and consequently have nothing nice to say about Pacific Fighters to their friends.

I love this game, and the whole IL2 series. I have played off and on since the first days of IL2. I think that new planes aside, we need ONE standard version that everyone can fly online. This "two version" thing is not helping this sim at all.

Just my two cents

goshikisen
12-23-2004, 01:51 PM
PF dead? Really? I still get a ton of use out of it offline. Aren't you sensationalizing things a bit? Some magazines are still publishing reviews of PF... and you're already arranging a funeral for it.

Aminx... a previous poster pointed out that the vast majority of your posts undermine PF I tend to agree. Are constant negative posts about PF going to further the cause of your "lobby for the inclusion of Torpedo bombers"? If I were Oleg and all I had for feedback were the content of your posts... I'd pack up my tent and move on. PF has problems, for sure, but on the whole it's pretty amazing. Too bad you can't see that.

Regards, Goshikisen.

Eraser_tr
12-23-2004, 01:59 PM
oh its not that 3.02b(m) is hard to install, its just that it kills framerates. PF was perfectly smooth on perfect with forests at 3 and water at 2 in huge air battles. I install 3.02bm, yay! back to water=1, forests=2 and choppyness more than abundant. uninstalled all, reinstalled all up to 3.01 and im back to my great fps.

Why do you criticize open architecture(NOT SOURCE) so much, look how much its helped the cfs series. Out of the box all 3 were mediocre, but were expanded by 3rd party addons into exceptional games. Yes multiplayer compatability is an issue as not everyone will have all planes. Cheating isn't though, in cfs if your files differ(like making a flight model for an otherwise crappy plane uber) you can't get in the game at all. There are alot of people who play offline that incompatability doesn't affect.

PF and il2 in general is far from dead. It's only lying in bed sick at the moment, poisoned by greedy fatcats.

Although I do wish they released the addon patch they were supposed to immediately, and add the even more stuff we'll be getting in another patch.

Dr...Watson
12-23-2004, 02:12 PM
Well, I never kept up with series and hence when I heard about PF I thought, whats this AEP thats required, ended up ordering both at same time.

Tried AEP and thought holy cow, what an addon, eventually got round to PF. Carrier landings were fun, mastered that after half an hour then there was just no more depth in the game for me.

AEP however just has me comming back to it over and over.

carguy_
12-23-2004, 02:14 PM
If I see open code I instantly dump IL2 no matter how good it is.

BEGONE FOUL SPIRIT!!!

RoughRaider1
12-23-2004, 02:14 PM
This thread is rediculous. I've had the game a month and have been using it every night, offline for awhile then some online with a bud.
I did have to make some of my own online missions by porting them over with the FMB, but it's been alot of fun. I can't see how anyone could say this game is dead other then speaking for themselves. Which IMO is exactly what they are doing.
I agree that other things would have been nice if they were added, but I can't think of one game out of the many I've bought over the past 8 years that I can't say that about.
If anythings dead it the person that thinks PF is, because they apparently already have their head buried.
If there's something better then any of the IL2 series, please inform me because I've must have missed them and wouldn't mind adding them to my collection.

SgtBriggs
12-23-2004, 02:18 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> oh its not that 3.02b(m) is hard to install, its just that it kills framerates. PF was perfectly smooth on perfect with forests at 3 and water at 2 in huge air battles. I install 3.02bm, yay! back to water=1, forests=2 and choppyness more than abundant. uninstalled all, reinstalled all up to 3.01 and im back to my great fps.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
uhm, i must be @ssbackwards. i get better frames with the 302bm and i can finally have perfect with lots of planes flying around, before 302bm i would be at a standstill if over 25 or so planes and running perfect was just a dream. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Chuck_Older
12-23-2004, 02:30 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by carguy_:
If I see open code I instantly dump IL2 no matter how good it is.

BEGONE FOUL SPIRIT!!! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's got to stay closed

Only way to ensure parity from PC to PC. If one flight model is off, that flight model is off for everyone. That helps ensure quality online and off, in my opinion

fordfan25
12-23-2004, 02:48 PM
i think he made a few good points. every one hear who knows me should know that im not a hater in any way. and iv said many times im glade we got a pto sim in any form but i also think this game is missing a good bit that it should have. the Dcampaigns are very bland and well just not enough diversity in the types of missions it sends you on and thats my big complaint. the plane list is good exept for no carrier torp planes. haveing the essex and seratoga class is enough but a yorktown class woulda been nice. no US BB is noticble to me but again no real big deal. also unless im mistaken we dont have any J BBs do we. we need the Yamoto class and a Iowa class just for the kool factor lol. if thay leave the game as it is and drop dev then i might be a little disapointed in it overall but if thay keep at it like thay did with FB then it should be a awsome game. as an amarican i am of course most interested in flying US planes just like some one from germany would be most intersted in there countrys planes so for me i realy hope thay get all this BS cleared up so we can get to fly some more US fighters. if not well it could be worse.

fordfan25
12-23-2004, 02:50 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chuck_Older:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by carguy_:
If I see open code I instantly dump IL2 no matter how good it is.

BEGONE FOUL SPIRIT!!! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's got to stay closed

Only way to ensure parity from PC to PC. If one flight model is off, that flight model is off for _everyone_. That helps ensure quality online and off, in my opinion <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

id like to maby see it for offline play but def not for online. cheating has been bad enough. just think if some SOB tweaked his zero's FM to go 500mph lol

ZG77_Nagual
12-23-2004, 02:55 PM
I think PF is the best flight simm I've ever seen http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif it totally resolved the frustration I felt with cfs2. I hope we get a flyable avenger, j2m and betty - but as far as I'm concerned it is simply superb.

sapre
12-23-2004, 02:57 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by NoBunny:
There is nothing exciting about the Pacific in all gaming genres. It's the kiss of death - Also stay away from Nam genres too.

It's time for Olg to give us the sorce code so the community can keep (or rather make) PF interesting. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Were you still in this forum!? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

buz13
12-23-2004, 03:40 PM
Gee.....I didn't know it was dead....better stop playing it I guess.....better check to see if my girlfriend, dog and kid is still alive..seems you can't tell these days...just when you think everything is healthy and happy it turns up dead.... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

TX-WarHawk
12-23-2004, 03:48 PM
Yo aminx, let me share my view of the PF's status.
I agree with you from #1 to #10, as #11 is too radical for this sim. And I know you waited so many years for a PO game, we'll get to that.
Now, about PF's life situation, it may not be as finished and polished as the past releases from 1C, it may not have various flyable airplanes that were essential to the war in the pacifc from the '30's up until the end of WW2, and it may never have stuff that many wanted or think it was important to the PTO, but after a couple of months, suspicious dev behavior and that TM B U L L S H I T, your conclusion that PF is dead came in a bit too early although someday that will be truth, it's just a matter of time, becuase there are lots of variables ( like future add-ons, crowd interest TM troubles getting solved, this kind o' stuff ).

Now, speaking directly to you, I understand you being let down by PF, it surely isn't what you dreamed it to be, you have to let it go if the aforementined problems don't get solved, because it's not posting here or in any other WW2 related forum that will change the reality of this game in particular.

macd1102
12-23-2004, 04:09 PM
worring about cheating if the source code was opened doesnt make since, i race on f1c racing sim which allows numerous mods, most better than the original game, but on f1rst [online racing program] it detects any changes made to improve cars, why cant flight sim programs do the same

tascaso
12-23-2004, 04:32 PM
Again you can critique all you like but like all else in life .... its not perfect. So what...the lads and I fly coops every weekend and just love PF its a hoot. The essence of the game is in the online DF servers or in BW, VEF or the many intersquad coop missions. The are some very good campaigns out there free to download. So go for it. I for one fly it exclusively and have deleted all other games from my PC. This is all we have...and I love it.

I expect the final patch for PF will be released. As far as I am concerned if no more aircraft are released for PF then OK. If canning further PF development means we can get the Med more Eastern Front and BOB...then great! I am all for it!

Do more flying! The is the where the nut to this whole series is...flying the darn planes not posting in the forums. It is about the flying.

Enjoy!

123_Tony_123VEF

Eraser_tr
12-23-2004, 05:10 PM
Not many games are open source.

Open architecture is completely different than open source. We can't modify the code for CFS but we can add all we want in terms of planes tanks and ships, change the effects and scenery on our own, but we can't change the code at all. if we could do that, all of the bugs people complain about would be gone by now and it would be an 'uber' flight sim.

james_ander
12-23-2004, 05:38 PM
I was never interested in the Pacific theatre and I'm still not. I am reading a good book about VMF-214. Still, I'm not really inspired. It's not that Oleg had done a bad job with it IMHO. I think it's the nature of the conflict that makes it difficult to translate into a good gaming experience. Reading this book, if every Black Sheep Mission were modeled realistically in campaign it would be dead boring 90% of the time. Contracting malaria, flying hungover, random mechanical failures and sweltering heat are not elements that can make a flight sim exciting. I don't think additional planes and maps will change this significantly.

Since I was never much interested in the Pacific anyway, I always looked at PF as an expansion pack. I was particularly happy with the B-25J and can now make heavy bomber missions for allies. I was looking foward to using these new aircraft and maps to make more varied missions which is what I have been doing. $40 seems like a bargain for me when I consider the entertainment value I have gotten out of this product.

At the same time, I understand the disappointment of those that were looking foward to a treatment of the Pacific that was as comprehensive as Oleg's treatment of the eastern front.

Turk_man
12-23-2004, 05:56 PM
I think the biggest hurdle for Pacific Fighters was the fact that Forgotten Battles and AEP came out of the box polished and great. With both those releases I played for weeks and loved it. Pacific Fighters came out of the box with problems that took some time to solve just so some could play it. Then the DS took weeks to release and the update that was going to include the planes that would complete the PT( carrier based torp bombers) never came. As others have said, this series has been great but with greatness comes expectations and frankly this release let a number of us down. Is this too much to expect? Maybe. Oleg does support this sim more than any other company ever has but, does that mean that we should except a release that is far from the standards that he himself set? I honestly think that even Oleg knows some of the shortcomings of PF. I also hope that rushing a release to reduce loses from pirated copies won`t happen again. Actually I wish we could find the jerk who pirated the first copy and string him up because that probably the cause of alot of this ****.

sapre
12-23-2004, 07:28 PM
IT IS NOT DEAD.
It merely in a growing state!!

Old_Canuck
12-23-2004, 07:54 PM
Since you already "removed the sim it's been fun ..." according to your post on December 21, why are you so concerned?

"Reveal the code" you say. Why? You say PF is dead right?

Levethane
12-23-2004, 10:36 PM
I was quite dissapointed with PF, even after the patch. Should not have been released. I was well prepared to wait another 6months for Oleg to get it right. Not sure how true the rumours that Ubisoft made them release it are.

aminx
12-24-2004, 12:03 AM
good morning,

It's 8 a.m. here in the south of Switzerland and its Xmas Eve.It's a lovely day, the sun is just about to start coming up over the snowy mountains from the East and the colour of the scattered small clouds is red orange with a shade of grey white,its very cold.No zeros in sight yet.
please go to this link and read carefully the content and digest it over xmas.This is the best time of the year to search our souls.
MERRY XMAS
aminx

http://www.gmxmedia.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=13875#13875

aminx
12-24-2004, 12:10 AM
then go to:
http://www.bob-ma.org/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=875
aminx

sapre
12-24-2004, 12:24 AM
Ahh, I see it now.
You think you are really smart and and you want to show how smart you are to these idiots in this forum who still plays the dead sim and show how great the new BoB sim from GMX is.
Thats what you are thinking right?

aminx
12-24-2004, 02:00 AM
FURTHER TO THE LIST OF WHY THE SIM DIED

12)Luthier:This smart alec took on this responsabilty very lightly indeed.He took everyone for second class citizens and treated everyone like rubbish.He also proved to be a nasty bit of work.
Developers, forum members wont forget him easily.
13)Attitude:We were not treated correctly.The forum was useless.Major questions were never answered,never.Analyse the forum,what does it say?nothing.
14)Confusion:In Industry today there is no such thing as going into production with an item without certain steps beeing taken.
a)layouts:are approved by the packing and purchasing department with at least 2 approved signatures .
b)Regulatory dept:This dept looks over the laws and regulations governing the public sale of the item in that market.They know very well their responsabilities regarding trade marks etc.production does not start unless the management above them waved the discrepancy beeing fully aware and notified,usually debates take place in meetings and memos are signed for good orders sake and kept in files for future ref incase of arguments later arrising from the case.We always made the sales dept in charge of that market sign when there was a controversy.
c)Betty:This should never have happened from a respectable company like UBI.I can remember many business men and industrialists who would have fired the person responsible for this mistake and i mean it,actually you resign on your own .
15)Russian culture:The Berlin wall fell only some 15 years ago,thats nothing in time.I remember how scared both sides were in Germany when it happened.What happens is a clash of culture and you try to comunicate after something like 40 years pf alienation.Mentalities and approaches are very different.Education is different.
16)Fast buck mentality:It does¿nt work when you are selling something to the educated community.
Yes we are educated and we are proud of it,sure we are not all M.I.T gurus far from it but it is hard to believe that anyone around the world involved in pc¿s and flight sims is ignorant.
17)John Wayne Era:Thats over,when in soldier ryan a buddy tells a dying tom hanks its a tank buster that blew up the tank on the other side of the bridge everyone was surprised. ¿thats no p47¿
but a P51 people exclaimed.Communication and information has improved by leaps and bounds
in the last decade.
18)The cost of PF:Well? What was the cost?Write it down, start calculating,or you dont want to?Why?Have you got something to hide?Do you feel ashammed?you heard what that was equivalent to in China and what you could do with it there if you had to raise a family?
19)Perfect water:It did not take long for anyone with some common sense and maturity to simmer down and get back up on his feet and say ¿hey what was all this about¿this is my pc, this is what i can afford for an upgrade but i must spend that figure to see ¿perfect water¿ and still there is if¿s and but¿s and what for?!
20)Ambiguity:This is a suttle tactic used to hide,avoid,slip through,deny ,arouse interest,create debate around a mystery amongst others but is also a sign of weakness.You can use that as a shield.
Your objective is to sell a product and you will use any method for it to sell well, after all thats what its all about,reaching objectives by hook or by crook like my father would say.Then depending on the long term policy just forget about tomorrow for the time beeing.


aminx

aminx
12-24-2004, 02:05 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by sapre:
Ahh, I see it now.
You think you are really smart and and you want to show how smart you are to these idiots in this forum who still plays the dead sim and show how great the new BoB sim from GMX is.
Thats what you are thinking right? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nope,definitely not,i dont know anyone there.I was simply drawing your attention to the advantages of the open architecture approach
to save this sim in the most economical and practical maner.You want the Kate and Avenger to fly?well you have it and for free.You dont like the cockpit?delete it and choose someone elses.I must have had 10 panels for my bf109's in cfs2.Further this is the team which put together the dynamic campaign for Mig Alley
the most respected dynamic campaign in recent years.Thats all.
aminx

sapre
12-24-2004, 03:21 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by aminx:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by sapre:
Ahh, I see it now.
You think you are really smart and and you want to show how smart you are to these idiots in this forum who still plays the dead sim and show how great the new BoB sim from GMX is.
Thats what you are thinking right? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nope,definitely not,i dont know anyone there.I was simply drawing your attention to the advantages of the open architecture approach
to save this sim in the most economical and practical maner.You want the Kate and Avenger to fly?well you have it and for free.You dont like the cockpit?delete it and choose someone elses.I must have had 10 panels for my bf109's in cfs2.Further this is the team which put together the dynamic campaign for Mig Alley
the most respected dynamic campaign in recent years.Thats all.
aminx <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
First, I agree with your point except #11.
But these are just a list of facts, and it doesn't prove this sim is dead AT ALL.
You say this sim is dead and according to Old_Canuck, you allready uninstall it.
Why do you stick to this forum?
You said it's allready dead, and how can a dead thing revive?
I see no point in your recent post at all, and now your obviously saying that you are a traggic hero who is allways right and bashed up by evil Luthier and Oleg Fanboys.
If you think PF sucks, fine.
If you think PF is dead, fine.
If you think we are a bunch of fanboys and idiots, fine.
If you think freeing the source code will solve all problems, fine.
But you don't need to come down here trying to insult someone!
Are you with me? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

SeaFireLIV
12-24-2004, 03:33 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by aminx:
Might as well list the reasons with the hope that the same mistake is not repeated with BOB and other projects:

1)Total absence of a real dynamic hystoric campaign from pearl all the way up.We repeatedly asked for same during the year and got no reply.eg mig alley and the new BOB anounced by gmx media.The so called dynamic campaigns we have are not so,these are not dynamic campaigns in the true sense.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I`ve not read the whole thread, but this is just my take on this:
I primarily agree with this one. I`ve gone on about the dynamic Campaign for ages, but even though Starshoy has managed a new point system for PF, it only adds a modicum of a `feel` of dynamic. It still isn`t dynamic and doesn`t work for FB (Eastern Front Campaigns) either.

Where`s the overall war confict in the theatre. Ground forces fighting, aircraft being vectered to new airfields? airfields being overrun? The frontline being fluid? Allowing missions to really affect things - attack fuel trucks affect vehicle travel, attack tanks affects troop movements.

Thankfully, Lowengrin`s DCG does this. But surprising that after all this time Starshoy still hasn`t managed anything to even compare to this lovely little utility. Still the Campaigns are usable and PF isn`t dead.

WOLFMondo
12-24-2004, 04:21 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Levethane:
I was quite dissapointed with PF, even after the patch. Should not have been released. I was well prepared to wait another 6months for Oleg to get it right. Not sure how true the rumours that Ubisoft made them release it are. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oleg and team get enough flak already from some people asking for more than we've already got. PF at initial release was far better than any other Pacific based WW2 sim, both on content, graphics and quality. I think we forget just how much work is needed to get it all working and right. Not also forgetting they are still supporting FB+AEP+PF with programming new planes from modellers like the Ju88, Mosquito, Pe2, Tempest V, Spitfire XIV and XXII etc which 1C:Maddox makes no money from. No other games and sims give such a level of aftersales service and additions of content.

"13)Attitude:We were not treated correctly.The forum was useless.Major questions were never answered,never.Analyse the forum,what does it say?nothing."

Play any other games or sims? I've never seen the level of interaction we get here with Oleg Maddox with any other game or sim, nothing even close. The man himself, the Big O! comes and talks to us and answers are questions, he even responds to darn right disrespectful posts and accusations, no other developer does that.

The trouble with Oleg is he interacts with his customers which has lead to a culture of expectation from them.

"Nope,definitely not,i dont know anyone there.I was simply drawing your attention to the advantages of the open architecture approach
to save this sim in the most economical and practical maner.You want the Kate and Avenger to fly?well you have it and for free.You dont like the cockpit?delete it and choose someone elses.I must have had 10 panels for my bf109's in cfs2.Further this is the team which put together the dynamic campaign for Mig Alley
the most respected dynamic campaign in recent years.Thats all."

And half the planes people built are UFO's or poor quality. With 1C's flight sims you have very high quality models and perform according to factory data rather than annecdotal evidence. It also means online every can join in, theres no requirements to have version X of Plane X befor people can join a server(lets face it, the defualt planes in CFS2 and 3 are a joke in quality and quantity and the FM's are ridiculous). If it went open source like CFS2 I'd hesitate to putchase or play another 1C:maddox sim.

Turk_man
12-24-2004, 06:37 AM
Lets be honest Oleg intracts with us and update his products and that IS why we keep buying it! If PF out of the box was a standalone with no future updates or patches alot would have uninstalled it in a week and went back to FB-AEP.

aminx
12-24-2004, 07:26 AM
ADDENDUM

DEV update:We want to to fly the Claude the Nate the Jill and the Devastator and not look at them in the sim.We dont purchase a sim to look at planes, what are we nuts?

Early war planeshttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gifuring the period just after Pearl and the second japanese assault on Wake the japanese were already placing the Claude and Nate (moved down from China)on the various islands they were conquering in the marshals as defence, we are talking about the period january-april1943 and as a matter of fact the first Tony(fromRabaul) appeared there.The USN fought against them with the first wildcats and the Dauntless sbd3 and Devastators did the bombing before the next major battle in the coral sea for months.

Patch:We all know thanks to rumour only that it¿s beeing redone because of what has to be excluded and amended.So now it¿s a mini patch and we have¿nt got the fogiest idea off whats in it.
Which means that if we follow the developers hard headed suicidal path we wont have anymore devs a year from now for PF.Bye bye maps.

Price of sim:An add on in Europe costs usually around 40usd and a game 55 usd.I paid 69usd for this sim or add on.You judge.
aminx

goshikisen
12-24-2004, 07:44 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by aminx:
FURTHER TO THE LIST OF WHY THE SIM DIED

13)Attitude:We were not treated correctly.The forum was useless.Major questions were never answered,never.Analyse the forum,what does it say?nothing.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

WOW... you are quite wrong. Other sims have virtually no support much less interaction with the developer himself.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by aminx:
15)Russian culture:The Berlin wall fell only some 15 years ago,thats nothing in time.I remember how scared both sides were in Germany when it happened.What happens is a clash of culture and you try to comunicate after something like 40 years pf alienation.Mentalities and approaches are very different.Education is different.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

How does this manifest itself? What are you implying with this one?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by aminx:
18)The cost of PF:Well? What was the cost?Write it down, start calculating,or you dont want to?Why?Have you got something to hide?Do you feel ashammed?you heard what that was equivalent to in China and what you could do with it there if you had to raise a family?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It was a good deal... $40.00 for a boatload of entertainment. I see Chinese IL2 enthusiasts attending network sim events in tailor made IL2 jackets trouncing people in online play... they don't seem to be suffering. You are oversimplifying.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by aminx:
19)Perfect water:It did not take long for anyone with some common sense and maturity to simmer down and get back up on his feet and say ¿hey what was all this about¿this is my pc, this is what i can afford for an upgrade but i must spend that figure to see ¿perfect water¿ and still there is if¿s and but¿s and what for?!
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nobody is telling you to fly with Perfect water. I don't. Some folks who invest money in expensive upgrades might like the option. Oleg also gave you water that doesn't slow down your processor. This is a non-issue.

Aminx... some of this stuff sounds like babbling. You've had too much of the Christmas cheer perhaps?

Happy Holidays, Goshikisen.

sapre
12-24-2004, 07:52 AM
What's wrong with this man aminx?
I'm seriously getting worried about him...

TROOPER117
12-24-2004, 08:12 AM
Wow! a good heated debate this, with very pertinent points on both sides of the argument.
I guess if you are an Oleg fanatic, you just won't want to hear any criticism about all his teams good work.
But if you are a realist, and I suspect people like aminx are, you are wholly justified at making hard accusations at any production team that appear to have let you down when you have spent good money on their products!
I think that by having sessions like this, when people really try to force their point of view across, (on either side of the arguement), that it makes games developers sit up and think hard about what they are trying to achieve and how it affects the paying public.
There is an old saying though, 'you can't please everyone all of the time'.
But my personal view is, PF is not dead, it will only get better. We just have to bite our tongues and wait a little longer!
Have a good one guys!!

ZG77_Nagual
12-24-2004, 08:41 AM
Quite literally all other flight simms - came out of the box much, much worse. I don't think Oleg measures his work against his competitors - he has set new, much higher standards. I found PF completely playable out of the box on at least three different systems. It's cutting edge graphically so you have to tune it for your system - big deal. Your comments about luthier and the forums are simply ridiculous - and completely invalidated by the mere existence of these forums and the dialogue that takes place on them.

Moderators - please delete this thread. Whatever points this guy may have had are destroyed by his #13 post. And every reply he gets is just positive reinforcement. There is no reason to feel compelled to make these forums a democracy. personal insults should not be permitted.

k5054
12-24-2004, 08:53 AM
It don't look dead to me. Judging by today's update we can do without Northrop stuff for a while....D.21, CW-21, TBD, J2M, B6N, etc etc.

conundrumx
12-24-2004, 09:18 AM
I wonder how many of the people that are complaining, and thus indirectly agreeing with the poster's topic, are yet still playing PF everyday or at least quite often.

I paid 40.00 US dollars for this so called unfinished product and feel that I have already got my money's worth. Few other things provide as much lasting entertainment for the price as have Il2/FB/AEP/PF, for me at least.

Also why doubt the support after some early, and uncharacteristic stumbles by Maddox, he has a history of excellent support that at least deserves the benefit of the doubt for the next month or so IMHO. It' s not like PF isn't entertaining in its current state to keep us at bay until then.

Lot of people biting off their noses to spite their faces.

BM357_Hitcher
12-24-2004, 09:18 AM
The funniest thing in this entire post are the suggestions that open architecture is a good idea and that we would all be better off going back to CFS2 and WEC Challenges. Virtual pilots who make such statements must be the type that were aces in CFS2 with their cheats and now have a hard time just taking off! Stop it, you're hurting me! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif

ReligiousZealot
12-24-2004, 10:56 AM
I am quite happy with PF in its current state - sure, it's not perfect, but did anyone really expect it to be? I personally believe PF is going to slowly grow, and the only reason anyone can feel its "dead" is because, I believe it was slightly over-hyped and a lot was expected. I want better FMs, more flyable planes (especially the B5N "Kate"), more historically accuracy, but you've got to take what you can get. The developers are human, they make mistakes like all the rest of us, the best thing we can do is to continue to support this game and contribute to the community. All I really have to say is, just wait for the patch and maybe, a sweet expansion pack(s) like IL2...PF is never going to be perfect, but it's one of the best Pacific flight sims I've played in a long time.

Rakugi
12-24-2004, 12:42 PM
The rumors of Pacific Fighters death is greatly exaggerated. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

John_Stag
12-24-2004, 06:07 PM
...Nah.

tB_Blueknight
12-24-2004, 07:24 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BM357_Hitcher:
The funniest thing in this entire post are the suggestions that open architecture is a good idea and that we would all be better off going back to CFS2 and WEC Challenges. Virtual pilots who make such statements must be the type that were aces in CFS2 with their cheats and now have a hard time just taking off! Stop it, you're hurting me! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I,m with you, thats what drew me to PF..lol