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PikeBishop
05-25-2004, 08:39 AM
First post here.......
Just a queery......If the game is not fixed in outcome, does this mean that the whole course of the Pacific war will be different?
What I am thinking is that what happened at Midway was so unlikely that I do not believe that it will happen that way in any computer game again. Consequently the 'War' could go on for a lot longer (not considering the A-Bomb) and many of the battles could be much more evenly matched which implies much more appealing scenario's as the new unpredictable war progresses.
regards,

SLP

PikeBishop
05-25-2004, 08:39 AM
First post here.......
Just a queery......If the game is not fixed in outcome, does this mean that the whole course of the Pacific war will be different?
What I am thinking is that what happened at Midway was so unlikely that I do not believe that it will happen that way in any computer game again. Consequently the 'War' could go on for a lot longer (not considering the A-Bomb) and many of the battles could be much more evenly matched which implies much more appealing scenario's as the new unpredictable war progresses.
regards,

SLP

Kitakami
05-25-2004, 11:00 AM
Why would Midway be so unlikely?

Japan recognizes the threath presented by US carriers -> Yamamoto decides to make a decicive battle (tm) to wipe out the rest of the US Pacific Fleet -> Offensive is made towards US itself -> Superior US intelligence gives the Americans a desicive edge in the following battle.

Of course, the fact that the Japanese carriers were so badly hit because there were planes just planning to take off on the flight decks when the bombs hit is a rather freak event. The battle itself might have turned differently. And if you take alternative history even further, what if Shokaku and Zuikaku had not been beaten at Coral Sea to port/shipyard condition and there would have been 6 Imperial CVs against 3 American ones (or 4, if we assume that Coral Sea didn't even happen)?

--------------------------------

IMO, while the campangs should always present historical alterations, they generally should follow the roughly historical path. Most things happened in logical order (strategy wise) as far as Pacific is concerned.

41-42 Early Japanese raids on allied targets and landing in allied Asia/South Pacific -> 41-44 (an extra year if Japan is ahistorically succesfull in the early push) Battle of attrition in Solomons/Gudalcanal -> 44-45 Allied raids and later landings on Japanese targets -> 45-46 Allied raids on Japanese islands.

Places like Aleutians should always remain a sideshow. Furthermore, Japanese invasions in places like India, Australia or even Hawaii were historically very unlikely so those scenarios wouldn't really need to be included.

[This message was edited by Kitakami on Tue May 25 2004 at 10:10 AM.]

Giganoni
05-25-2004, 11:39 AM
Well, hopefully you've seen this thread.

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?q=Y&a=tpc&s=400102&f=26310365&m=625107804&p=3

Anyway, I think its pretty certain that they will have to include at least some "What if" battles and campaigns. However, they can use historical battles rather easily , like Luthier's example that both the Lexington and Yorktown are sunk. The game can still go onto Midway (if that is the next battle you play in the game anyway) but the Americans will be missing one carrier. Now if the Japanese sink all the carriers then, what do you do? Maybe the game would go to Guadalcanal where the Cactus Air Force is overwhelmed because Japan has control of the sky and sea, thereby allowing ground forces to overrun the Marines. Or does the game go back to Hawaii in a "what if" second attack?

You can start to see how complex this could get and I don't think the game will be such, I'll be impressed if it is. Also, since the UK is included, would you be able to save Malaya? Save the PoW or Repulse? How about the Phillippines where despite Macarthur's terrible defense...well, okay I guess you couldn't have much impact in saving the Phillippines.

I hope places like the Phillippines (especially in 44), New Guinea and Burma (or China) are more attrition based like the campaigns already in FB..still I see ways that one pilot could have a big impact in those areas too. One that comes to mind is Leyte Gulf on the Japanese side. The JAAF and I assume the JNAF heavily contested Leyte Gulf and as many of you know such a battle almost came to a disaster for the Americans. A Japanese fleet heading for the American invasion force was repulsed by a scratch defense which involved escort carriers from the group Taffy 3. What if Japanese bombers had destroyed the CVEs of Taffy 3? This allows Kurita's fleet to head for the beaches and massacre the invasion force and transports.

So although I have no clue what the real campaign of PF will be like (it probably wont even have CVEs) you can tell that there are a lot of possibilities.

Stuntie
05-25-2004, 12:30 PM
yes things can always go differently.

The japanese could have detected the American carriers and attacked them first....

The Americans could have got a coordianted attack on the japanese carriers whilst they were off bombing Midway...

etc. etc.

Luck is as big a part of warfare as strategy when you are counting on surprise.

Thats why dynamic campaigns are always better in the long run than canned missions.

Cheers.
Stuntie

Latico
05-25-2004, 07:30 PM
As for luck, if it had not been for a bad storm front between Wake and Oahu the CV6 Enterprise would have been birthed at Pearl Harbor the morning of 7 Dec '41. When she left Wake her eta for Pearl was 6 Dec. The front (the same one that the IJN strike force use for cover on it's approach to Oahu) delayed the Big E's arrival by a day.

I have no doubt that the Enterprise would have been IJN's first flat top victem.

the "what if" scenarios could be endless. Of course, I don't see why the users can't create many of these type camps ourselves.