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View Full Version : An Update ... A Great Picture...PZL37 Being Chased By A Bf109



Woof603
08-23-2006, 08:54 AM
I found this on WW2aircraft.net by following the link in Jaws2002 post. It was in the paintings section, but looks like a photo to me. But where was the camera?

http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/album/data/529/piekna8yg.jpg

Woof603
08-23-2006, 08:54 AM
I found this on WW2aircraft.net by following the link in Jaws2002 post. It was in the paintings section, but looks like a photo to me. But where was the camera?

http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/album/data/529/piekna8yg.jpg

Deadmeat313
08-23-2006, 09:02 AM
That is beautiful http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

T.

berg417448
08-23-2006, 09:04 AM
Definitely a painting...and an excellent one at that.

JtD
08-23-2006, 11:44 AM
Yes, very nice.

leitmotiv
08-23-2006, 11:47 AM
Superb painting. Bf 109D the pursuer.

horseback
08-23-2006, 12:01 PM
May be CGI; take a look at the 109's oil cooler under the left wing--it's not really supposed to be an empty cylinder, and an artist who paid that much attention to detail wouldn't miss that.

A computer would.

cheers

horseback

Engadin
08-23-2006, 12:34 PM
It´s perfect! Looks so real! Thanks and congrats! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif

S! engadin

WB_Outlaw
08-23-2006, 12:34 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by horseback:
May be CGI; take a look at the 109's oil cooler under the left wing--it's not really supposed to be an empty cylinder, and an artist who paid that much attention to detail wouldn't miss that.

A computer would.

cheers

horseback </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Short of hardware problems, computers miss nothing. They do exactly what they are told. A CGI modeller is nothing more than an artist using a different "canvas". It's likely that this artist either didn't have good photos of the 109 model in question or didn't have the right photos.

--Outlaw.

Divine-Wind
08-23-2006, 12:41 PM
That's not very realistic. The PZL should be on the ground in flames by now. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

AH_Gonzo
08-23-2006, 03:18 PM
The PZL looks a bit over modelled!

ElAurens
08-23-2006, 04:44 PM
Actually the PZL37 was a pretty good aircraft. The LW even considered putting it back into production.

Pirschjaeger
08-23-2006, 09:56 PM
It's sad to see a 109 without ammo. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

Beautiful pic though. Thx http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Fritz

Pirschjaeger
08-23-2006, 09:58 PM
Um, is the 109 missing the air intake? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

Fritz

Pirschjaeger
08-23-2006, 10:01 PM
Ah, on closer inspection I can see it's a photoshop production. Look at the radius of the 109 prop. Excellent lighting though.

And don't get angry if we pic it apart. There's nothing wrong with learning from others' mistakes. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Fritz

LStarosta
08-24-2006, 08:19 AM
I dunno about you guys, but I'm pretty sure that's a photo.

Tully__
08-24-2006, 08:33 AM
I think it's a composite, photo background with painting/CGI aircraft.

Kocur_
08-24-2006, 10:14 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ElAurens:
Actually the PZL37 was a pretty good aircraft. The LW even considered putting it back into production. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I know nothing on such a intention BUT... After taking over Okęcie plant the workers were ordered by Germans to scrap planes standing there. Poles knowing that bombers were in good condition started to scrap them as soon as possible using anything usuable like sewes and axes. A Luftwaffe technical commision asking about PZL.37s arrived when remains of last o" were being loaded on a train. Situation become quite tense but Poles explained that all they did was doing what German administrator told them to do - the poor guy even got arrested by Gestapo and released after a few days after but got degraded to some low position. Something similar happened in Mielec plant which just started to produce the bombers. Polish chief asked Germans what to do with parts of "PZL-37 plane" and was told to scrap them, which he and his guys vigorouly did. After a while Germans started asking about "Los" bomber parts and were told that they ordered destroying those themselves http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif Most probably German intention was selling PZL.37 to Romania, where a number of o" escaped in late Sept. 1939.


Apart from lacking self sealing tanks or armour o" (elk; sounds almost like "wash", but with very short "sh") was pretty nice medium bomber. The idea behind it was to make as efficient use of the internal capacity as possible to have as great load as possible in an airframe as small as possible. Fuselage was quite small and bomb bay there could take only 4 x 110kg (real weight of Ż-31 bomb was 110,86kg) or 2 x 110kg plus 2 x 300kg bombs - rest of them, 16 bombs of 110kg were carried within wings. In order to make room for bombs the airfoil was modified by placing point of maximum thickness further back along the chord, which resulted in lowering drag a bit compared to original airfoil - what they did unintentionally was giving the new airfoil bit of features of laminar airfoil - which it was not by any means.
o" was 12,92m long, had 17,93m wingspan, empty weight of 4280kg, fully equipped 4935kg and was able to take maximum payload of 4185kg, i.e. almost equalling empty weight. Depending on payload t/o weight varied from 8560kg to 9120kg.
PZL.37B was able to take 2200kg bombs to 1500km with normal fuel and 1760kg bombs to 2600km, with additional fuel tanks in bomb bay. Maximum bomb load was 2580kg. Defensive armament was 3 x 7,92 wz.37 mgs.
PZL.37B was powered by two PZL (Bristol license) Pegasus XIX or XX engines of nominal power of 850PS and top power of 940PS. Top speed at 8560kg weight (incl. 1995kg bombs and 1077l fuel) - 412kmh at 2800m. Proposed export variants: PZL.37C powered by GR14M00/01 and PZL.37D with GR14N20/21 were supposed to reach top speed of 460 to 490kmh in light condition presumably.

major_setback
08-24-2006, 10:28 AM
Something about the depth of field seems odd. the background/lanscape is in focus and so are both of the planes except for the very back of the 109. That's a very large depth of field. At first I thought it must be a blown up picture from a much large one, (taken from a following aircraft maybe), but you would have to be very close to the 109 I think, for the tail to be out of focus while the rest of the picture is focussed.
I think part CGI, part photo, for these reasons. I'm not certain though.

Kocur_
08-24-2006, 10:42 AM
It is not a photograph for sure! Apart from 'hollow' radiator in the Bf-109, the artist missed the PZL.37 right wing white-red checkboard, which would be visible just left to the aileron (they were painted asymmetrically).

RaVe_N
08-24-2006, 05:42 PM
Rendered work...
nice angel too

JSG72
08-24-2006, 05:53 PM
Tis Funny!

But I had originaly questioned the Hollow radiator and the S/C intake missing (Anyone else?).

However as this is a 109D model Check out your references. It's V/good

!09 was probably Spitting out as much as could be fired in return!

Nice Compo. and good research!

JG51? Anyone?with correct sizeing Baulkenkruz for theatre?

mortoma1958
08-24-2006, 11:06 PM
Background is realphoto, planes are photoshop!!!

mortoma1958
08-24-2006, 11:09 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Kocur_:
It is not a photograph for sure! Apart from 'hollow' radiator in the Bf-109, the artist missed the PZL.37 right wing white-red checkboard, which would be visible just left to the aileron (they were painted asymmetrically). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>You are both wrong and right. The background is for sure a photo. No artist can paint photorealistically that well. Absolutely a photo as far as background, but planes are painted, or CGI or something rendered.

FritzGryphon
08-24-2006, 11:20 PM
Planes are too perfect to be painted, everything's straight and perfectly rounded. A painter probably would have used better reference and did more detail, like the very noticable ridge over the wing root.

JamesBlonde888
08-25-2006, 12:14 AM
That is truly a gret picture.

Treetop64
08-25-2006, 07:51 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Pirschjaeger:
Um, is the 109 missing the air intake? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

Fritz </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nope. That is the Jumo engined 109. The Mercedes engined 109s had the supercharger intake on the port engine cowling, the Jumos didn't.

flakwagen
08-25-2006, 08:48 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by major_setback:
Something about the depth of field seems odd. the background/lanscape is in focus and so are both of the planes except for the very back of the 109. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, the depth of field is as phony as a three dollar bill. So is the grain- that's what I noticed right away. At best the grain reminds me of photos taken with 25 or 50 ASA portrait film. That stuff is too slow for action shots like this.

Flak

LStarosta
08-25-2006, 08:59 AM
I am still convinced that's a real photo from 1939.

KIMURA
08-25-2006, 09:52 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Pirschjaeger:
Um, is the 109 missing the air intake? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

Fritz </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Maybe the artist was inspired by the I./ZG 2 which flew 109 D during the Poland campain. Maybe it's leant to far out the window but the clown emblem underneath the pit..........with a bit of fantasy it could match the emblem in the rendered pic of the artist. On the artist pic there's also a 2nd emblem on the cowling like it shows on the RL pic below. (just a guess guys)
http://mypage.bluewin.ch/a-z/kimura-hei/ZG_1.jpg

Pirschjaeger
08-25-2006, 11:46 AM
Kimura and Treetop http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

I just love answers. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/inlove.gif

Fritz

Woof603
08-28-2006, 03:18 PM
I'm still trying to figure out exactly what medium was used for this picture. V2, the original poster on WW2aircraft.net just told me that the picture came from the back cover of the Polish magazine Militaria XX Century. Anyone familiar with this magazine? I can't find it on Google.

Kocur_
08-28-2006, 04:33 PM
http://www.militariaxxw.kagero.pl/

List of issues:
http://kagero.pl/index.php?cPath=39_31&sort=1d&page=1

I see it, but dont buy so cant even tell what issue it was published in http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

orkan_3d
08-28-2006, 05:00 PM
Even the greates artists did something that could be regarded as a mistake in a realistic representation, but that is not what realy matters in art. Look in paintings of Caravadggio, VerMeer or Leonardo, you can very often find something that looks odd. And very often it is the most intriguing part. If Rembrandt was more "correct", he probably would not be so great.
You could call this art, but it would be better to say it is very well done ilustration.

jjtasker
08-28-2006, 05:27 PM
I'd bet its a plastic model with a forced perspective photo shoot..