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View Full Version : Trimming! :mad:



Lord-Rapter
07-01-2005, 09:00 AM

han freak solo
07-01-2005, 09:05 AM
Does this plane have rudder and aileron trim? I thought it only had elevator trim in the game.

Slechtvalk
07-01-2005, 09:13 AM
I have it mapped on a slider.

FritzGryphon
07-01-2005, 09:13 AM
Spits don't have trim buttons, they have wheels.

And you do realize, you don't have to tap the trim button. You can just hold it down.

Cruising at a constant speed, I have no problem trimming the IXC. A two second press of rudder trim.

And if you keep hand on stick, it won't matter either way.

F16_Neo
07-01-2005, 09:14 AM
Think I know what u need m8 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v109/F16_Neo/nonsens/k-napp.gif

TooCooL34
07-01-2005, 09:54 AM
It's giving me 401% of fun. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/354.gif

new-fherathras
07-01-2005, 09:57 AM
WTF OMG LOL!!!1111



http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif



I picked nr.4 by the way

Chuck_Older
07-01-2005, 10:44 AM
Originally posted by Lord-Rapter:
This trimming buissness is really taking the p***, I'v just flown a Spitfire IXC and i had to hit the trim button a good 50+ times and it still wasnt flying straight and kept yanking to the right! I seriously doubt that a spit, would take more then 50+ times just to level out!

I, myself would like it far better if this trimming was taken out of sturmovik, and never ever used in future maddox games, or even other flight sim games. Its taken 40% out of the fun now! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

Whats your opinon?


Um...OK. Look.

Trimming is an aspect of flying an aircraft. As has been pointed out, you don't use "50+ times" on a button in a real airplane.

Since you didn't realise this, I can only assume you play the game becuase it seemed "cool" to fly these sexy planes in a sim, and shoot stuff

For-real, all you're doing is complaining that it's too hard. You're actually outraged that this aspect is in a simulation, and you dislike it so much, you want to see it removed from every flight sim in the future


You don't like flight sims, OK? They are not your cup of tea. Flight sims aren't going to regress into what they were 15 years ago just so you can have cool graphics, a flight model you decide is correct, and automated systems that didn't exist on these aircraft

This type of PC game is for peple who enjoy accuracy. Most of us are History loons as well as flight sim nuts, some even have manuals and reference material on the actual aircraft. Most of the folks who make the cool stuff here were into the History of all this long before Il2 ever came out, and you rant about the trimming aspect in a way that illustrates your complete conviction that this sim should revert to a straight 'game' and omit things about "flight" that you find a bother...

Well, all I can say contructively is remove the sim from your hard drive and never play it again. Go find a game you want to play, becuase you obviously don't want to play this one. You won't miss it after a week or two and other games exist that ignore most every real life aspect of anything you care to name. Have fun

PS
let me know how d/ling the patch onto a floppy disk goes http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Abel29A
07-01-2005, 11:00 AM
Well if trimming is a bother just turn of Torque effects... See, no more worries.

Now consider us Axis flyboys who dont even have rudder/aileron trim http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Or dont seeing as its only to reach crusing speed and the plane is fairly steady.

BrotherVoodoo
07-01-2005, 11:35 AM
The new trim does not bother me a bit.

Sun_Ra
07-01-2005, 12:54 PM
Think it's great.

Map it to the mouse wheel, much better than the keyboard.

Lord-Rapter
07-01-2005, 12:57 PM
Originally posted by Chuck_Older:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Lord-Rapter:
This trimming buissness is really taking the p***, I'v just flown a Spitfire IXC and i had to hit the trim button a good 50+ times and it still wasnt flying straight and kept yanking to the right! I seriously doubt that a spit, would take more then 50+ times just to level out!

I, myself would like it far better if this trimming was taken out of sturmovik, and never ever used in future maddox games, or even other flight sim games. Its taken 40% out of the fun now! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

Whats your opinon?


Um...OK. Look.

Trimming is an aspect of flying an aircraft. As has been pointed out, you don't use "50+ times" on a button in a real airplane.

Since you didn't realise this, I can only assume you play the game becuase it seemed "cool" to fly these sexy planes in a sim, and shoot stuff

For-real, all you're doing is complaining that it's too hard. You're actually outraged that this aspect is in a simulation, and you dislike it so much, you want to see it removed from every flight sim in the future


You don't like flight sims, OK? They are not your cup of tea. Flight sims aren't going to regress into what they were 15 years ago just so you can have cool graphics, a flight model you decide is correct, and automated systems that didn't exist on these aircraft

This type of PC game is for peple who enjoy accuracy. Most of us are History loons as well as flight sim nuts, some even have manuals and reference material on the actual aircraft. Most of the folks who make the cool stuff here were into the History of all this long before Il2 ever came out, and you rant about the trimming aspect in a way that illustrates your complete conviction that this sim should revert to a straight 'game' and omit things about "flight" that you find a bother...

Well, all I can say contructively is remove the sim from your hard drive and never play it again. Go find a game you want to play, becuase you obviously don't want to play this one. You won't miss it after a week or two and other games exist that ignore most every real life aspect of anything you care to name. Have fun

PS
let me know how d/ling the patch onto a floppy disk goes http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Man chill out... im not really going to burn a floppy disk http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

I just got a little carried away http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

VW-IceFire
07-01-2005, 01:59 PM
I was initially unnerved about it...but here's some pointers:
1) Hold the key down if you have to make large adjustments.
2) Watch the slide indicator in the cockpit. This will help you center the plane.
3) For cruise, reduce throttle to 80% and your torque and need for rudder trim diminishes.

This will get things running smoothly for you.

Takata_
07-01-2005, 08:26 PM
Originally posted by Chuck_Older:
... nuts ...
Chuck Older, that's the only point you get right in your post. I'm pretty sure you never used to trim your plane. You should try it, and from time to time, fly this sim in place of posting.

If you never noticed it, Oleg didn't provide us with a sim to use with real cockpit controls but with a keyboard and a joystick. At the same time, there is no data provided to us about what is supposed to work with each plane, and that's a design flawness, whatever you think.

About accuracy, let me tell you that most of the planes are unbalanced now. It doesn't mean they have to be stable, with no torque, P-factor or spin, it means that we just can't use the trim to get them to fly straight at all speeds as they should (most of them).

Trim is designed on this purpose and some planes are working without any pilot trim control at all, like I-16, I-153 and P.11c, other are working with only elevators trim, like Bf-109s', Fw-190s', Ta-152, A6M2s', Ki-43s', Ki-61s', Ki-84s' and Ki-100; Spitfire and Hurricanes only have elevators and rudder trim control, as well as all other russian planes, IAR.80, A6M3, A6M5s' and A6M7s'; all US planes have 3 axes trim, as well as Gladiator.J8A, Fiat Cr.42 and G.50, IAR.81s' and Bf-110G-2, usually all bombers got full trim too but TB-3 has none.

So, Lord_Rapter may hold the key forever, he'll never be able to trim his dropping right wing, under the weight of the two thousand pounds Rhino sitting here, as there is no ailerons trim on Spitfire. Opposite rudder trim should help a bit but it will induce sliding and the Spitfire will stay unstable on the roll axe. Please, Chuck Older 'the History loons as well as flight sim nuts', provide us with any document stating that Spitfire was only able to fly straight at cruise speed. And at the same time, you should ask yourself why the RAF did set a 3 axes control trim on Gladiator, a perfectly stable plane, and they haven't set one on Spitfire who was so unstable. The answer is because the Spit didn't need it.

Takata.

Lord-Rapter
07-02-2005, 05:07 AM
Originally posted by Takata_:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Chuck_Older:
... nuts ...
Chuck Older, that's the only point you get right in your post. I'm pretty sure you never used to trim your plane. You should try it, and from time to time, fly this sim in place of posting.

If you never noticed it, Oleg didn't provide us with a sim to use with real cockpit controls but with a keyboard and a joystick. At the same time, there is no data provided to us about what is supposed to work with each plane, and that's a design flawness, whatever you think.

About accuracy, let me tell you that most of the planes are unbalanced now. It doesn't mean they have to be stable, with no torque, P-factor or spin, it means that we just can't use the trim to get them to fly straight at all speeds as they should (most of them).

Trim is designed on this purpose and some planes are working without any pilot trim control at all, like I-16, I-153 and P.11c, other are working with only elevators trim, like Bf-109s', Fw-190s', Ta-152, A6M2s', Ki-43s', Ki-61s', Ki-84s' and Ki-100; Spitfire and Hurricanes only have elevators and rudder trim control, as well as all other russian planes, IAR.80, A6M3, A6M5s' and A6M7s'; all US planes have 3 axes trim, as well as Gladiator.J8A, Fiat Cr.42 and G.50, IAR.81s' and Bf-110G-2, usually all bombers got full trim too but TB-3 has none.

So, Lord_Rapter may hold the key forever, he'll never be able to trim his dropping right wing, under the weight of the two thousand pounds Rhino sitting here, as there is no ailerons trim on Spitfire. Opposite rudder trim should help a bit but it will induce sliding and the Spitfire will stay unstable on the roll axe. Please, Chuck Older 'the History loons as well as flight sim nuts', provide us with any document stating that Spitfire was only able to fly straight at cruise speed. And at the same time, you should ask yourself why the RAF did set a 3 axes control trim on Gladiator, a perfectly stable plane, and they haven't set one on Spitfire who was so unstable. The answer is because the Spit didn't need it.

Takata. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

Raptor_20thFG
07-02-2005, 06:18 AM
Gentle you must be gentle with trim if you are rough with it it all goes to S***

blindpugh
07-02-2005, 07:17 AM
germany would'nt have needed a luftwaffe -these planes are so unstable they would have killed all the pilots long before they met up with the luftwaffe.the sesitivity of elevater and rudder movement is way over modelled

blindpugh
07-02-2005, 07:46 AM
further to my post -can anyone imagine a poor chap of 19 or twenty years old with anywhere between 8 to 10 hours flying trying to fly one of these unstable bloody aircraft and even if he managed to get it air borne-he would be too busy P****ing around with the trim to be able to look round for the enemy -4.01 a good patch- Dont make me laugh!!!

blindpugh
07-02-2005, 07:46 AM
Come back 3.04

Bearcat99
07-02-2005, 08:40 AM
Suck it up......

Chuck_Older
07-02-2005, 08:41 AM
Takata-

What's your basic problem? Your claws are showing... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/mockface.gif

Regardless of your personal (petty) feelings about me, Lord Rapter just threw a hissy fit, to which I gave my opinion. He ASKS for our opinions for God's sake. He even admits he was carried away in his post. He says that trim shouldn't even be in future sims. Not trim as we have it now, the concept of trim. He wants TRIM, not OLEG'S version of it to be gone. That's what he says, go read it. Did you even bother to read and digest his post before you decided to try and teach me something? Try not to open your mouth only to shove your foot in it next time. The one and only reason you 'defend' him is to reply to me.

As for trim...I learned about that in my engineering classes, but thanks for the concern, I'm sure it was genuine.

You don't like my opinion on it? Oh Lordy, that just breaks me up inside. Pardon me whilst I find a kleenex http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif Thank goodness I don't give a rat @ss about your perception of very much.

antifreeze
07-02-2005, 09:09 AM
I don't mind not having aileron trim if it's historical for those aircraft. I find I have to trim the aircraft at cruise throttle now, rather than 100-110% due to the increased torque model. But didn't ground crews balance the aircraft for cruise speed anyway, rather than maximum speed? I think the problem is that too many players gun their engine and fly around at max all the time?

In addition I think now you also have to re-trim after changing direction due to the new wind modelling, which didn't used to be the case except in blind/storm weather. But I'm not sure how much wind is modelled now; maybe clear/hazy weather still has no wind modelled?

However, I was annoyed back in v2.x when they disabled the 'auto-leveller' on all the fighters, allowing it only to be used on large bombers. It may be more realistic, but it also means you can't go a for pee, make coffee, answer the phone, listen to your wife nagging, etc. when playing online. Very annoying to have to ditch your fighter during a mission because of a short real-life interruption.

willyvic
07-02-2005, 09:28 AM
...I find I have to trim the aircraft at cruise throttle now, rather than 100-110% due to the increased torque model... ...I think the problem is that too many players gun their engine and fly around at max all the time?



Nail hit squarely on head good sir. Pedal to the metal at all times is not the way to go.

Trim her for the FIGHT not the FLIGHT.

Lord-Rapter
07-02-2005, 11:33 AM
Originally posted by Chuck_Older:
Takata-

What's your basic problem? Your claws are showing... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/mockface.gif

Regardless of your personal (petty) feelings about me, Lord Rapter just threw a hissy fit, to which I gave my opinion. He ASKS for our opinions for God's sake. He even admits he was carried away in his post. He says that trim shouldn't even be in future sims. Not trim as we have it now, the concept of trim. He wants TRIM, not OLEG'S version of it to be gone. That's what he says, go read it. Did you even bother to read and digest his post before you decided to try and teach me something? Try not to open your mouth only to shove your foot in it next time. The one and only reason you 'defend' him is to reply to me.

As for trim...I learned about that in my engineering classes, but thanks for the concern, I'm sure it was genuine.

You don't like my opinion on it? Oh Lordy, that just breaks me up inside. Pardon me whilst I find a kleenex http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif Thank goodness I don't give a rat @ss about your perception of very much.

Cant you let things rest http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

Chuck_Older
07-02-2005, 03:00 PM
Originally posted by Lord-Rapter:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Chuck_Older:
Takata-

What's your basic problem? Your claws are showing... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/mockface.gif

Regardless of your personal (petty) feelings about me, Lord Rapter just threw a hissy fit, to which I gave my opinion. He ASKS for our opinions for God's sake. He even admits he was carried away in his post. He says that trim shouldn't even be in future sims. Not trim as we have it now, the concept of trim. He wants TRIM, not OLEG'S version of it to be gone. That's what he says, go read it. Did you even bother to read and digest his post before you decided to try and teach me something? Try not to open your mouth only to shove your foot in it next time. The one and only reason you 'defend' him is to reply to me.

As for trim...I learned about that in my engineering classes, but thanks for the concern, I'm sure it was genuine.

You don't like my opinion on it? Oh Lordy, that just breaks me up inside. Pardon me whilst I find a kleenex http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif Thank goodness I don't give a rat @ss about your perception of very much.

Cant you let things rest http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No more than you can, sonny. And actually, that post you quoted was not addressed to you, so maybe you should let Takata fight his own battles?

In any case, you asked for opinions, and now you don't like what you got...and I'm the bad guy?

I don't think so

If you might not like the answers, think twice about asking the questions

Chuck_Older
07-02-2005, 03:18 PM
Originally posted by Antifreeze:

In addition I think now you also have to re-trim after changing direction due to the new wind modelling, which didn't used to be the case except in blind/storm weather. But I'm not sure how much wind is modelled now; maybe clear/hazy weather still has no wind modelled?

However, I was annoyed back in v2.x when they disabled the 'auto-leveller' on all the fighters, allowing it only to be used on large bombers. It may be more realistic, but it also means you can't go a for pee, make coffee, answer the phone, listen to your wife nagging, etc. when playing online. Very annoying to have to ditch your fighter during a mission because of a short real-life interruption.

You know, I had almost convinced myself that auto-level used to work in fighters. Personally, since I have rudder trim on a rotary on my X-45 and pitch and roll on the little joystick on the side of the throttle, trimming is a snap. The HOTAS is a great tool and folks who have trouble with trim may want to think about having equipment that makes gameplay easier. I have to touch the keyboard for radiator, manual landing gear, and to change the measurement unit system- that's it. If I wrote a better profile for the stick I'd never have to touch the keyboard but I'm too used to the X-45 profile I have

Changing trim after a heading change...my gut syas this is the case now, but that could also be my perception, since yo also lose speed in a turn, making a trim change neccessary

Bearcat99
07-02-2005, 03:59 PM
Originally posted by Antifreeze:
However, I was annoyed back in v2.x when they disabled the 'auto-leveller' on all the fighters, allowing it only to be used on large bombers. It may be more realistic, but it also means you can't go a for pee, make coffee, answer the phone, listen to your wife nagging, etc. when playing online. Very annoying to have to ditch your fighter during a mission because of a short real-life interruption.

I trim out to go get a cold one, answer the phone, take a leak etc. all the time. All you have to do is just make sure you are trimmed and dont have your throttle maxed out.

Takata_
07-02-2005, 05:57 PM
Originally posted by Chuck_Older:
You don't like my opinion on it? Oh Lordy, that just breaks me up inside.
S~!
Do not overestimated yourself in my concern, I only found the thread poster pretty funny and your answer clearly arrogant...
No hard feelings at all about you ChuckO, you just showed me how good a RLFA* could perform. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Takata.

(*) Real-Life-Forum-Ace

Chuck_Older
07-02-2005, 06:32 PM
The Parting Shot. Nicely done. Witty repartee even.

But calling me arrogant is like a midget calling a dwarf short, dontcha think?


A good rule of thumb around here is: don't take things so personally

I have clearly struck a chord with your sensibilities; otherwise you wouldn't be rising to somebody's defense over such a silly thread.

Take your own advice: don't be such an arrogant RLFA yourself.

If it interests you, do a search under my user name and see what I do here when not passing the time with you. I've spent more time making user-made stuff for this sim and helping new players by e-mail than I have posting, by a country mile. A lot of it isn't good enough to make available, but some missions last year and the year before were good enough.

Just because I don't play online and I have a high post count, that doesn't mean your assumptions are on the money. I can even type well- not my fault I can spend 3 minutes typing up a 500 word paragraph and others can't- so I can reply to more posts in say half an hour than the average member

I can be quite abrasive, but I never just rip into folks- and this thread is not an example of my doing that; opinions were asked for and given. So I can't sympathize with your assesments. Plus I have this weird thing about me that presses harder when somebody tries to put me down, which I can't say I regret, but my replies to anyone in this vein will always be up to the level of abuse I perceive is directed at me


Finally, I'd like to mention that I could have simply posted "Shut up ugly" to you. I hope you can see the difference between that and what I did type http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif