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Plebanos
03-07-2005, 02:00 PM
hello!
i had some time thus made some tests with this bird.
first let me quote from rudi driebe who flew this plane:
"during dogfights the p51 would turn very sharply and fire its guns almost immediately initially, during the first turn, the ta 152s turn radius would be larger than that of the p51s, but would then became smaller. thus if someone survived the first attack of the mustang, it was quite possible to line up behind the mustang during the following turns..."
well, all these recollections mention that ta 152 was an agile and maneuverable bird - unlike it is now in the sim.

lets see the data:
climbing at full throttle and using wep, auto pitch, rads open, 50% fuel.

1000 - 0.40
2000 - 1.26
3000 - 2.13
4000 - 3.00
5000 - 3.48
6000 - 5.00
7000 - 6.12
8000 - 7.29
9000 - 8.36
10000 - 10.20

top altitude reached 12250 meters, no cockpit view.
in monograms book you can find following data for climb speed:
climb to 8000 meters: 12.6 mins.
climb speed: 17.5 m/s
these are RL data. if you compare them with what we have in the sims, you shall be amazed http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif


i dont have data for other planes but it would worth trying other 44-45 planes, 190D9, la7 and the pony. knowing that a la7 outclimbs ta 152 from the deck, i have a suspicion that other planes climb abilities are also boosted somewhat.....

i love ta152 and would love to have it as near as possible to real plane chars. but at the same time it would be nice to have other planes fixed as well.

stathem
03-07-2005, 02:53 PM
I think you'll find the version in game is a very specailised High altitude interceptor that didn't see combat, I suggest you're man was flying a different version.

BBB_Hyperion
03-07-2005, 03:00 PM
Thats intresting i got several different values for ta 152 h0 .

http://www.butcherbirds.de/hypesstorage/FW_DATA.jpg

Climbtime at 100 % power 13,8 Minutes to 10 km
Climbtime at 110 % power 10,1 Minutes to 10 km

http://www.butcherbirds.de/hypesstorage/ta152h0t.jpg

climbtime 8 min to 7 k .

The H0 wasnt equiped with MW50 or GM1 so takeoff weight is increased on H1 but hp too.

Takeoff weight H1 4964 kg.
Takeoff weight H0 4730 kg.

dW = 234 kg

From H0 Manual
Supercharger Stage 1 to 2 2500 m +- 200 m
Supercharger Stage 2 to 3 7000 m +- 300 m

Speed of best climb 270-250 km/h IAS

Climbrate you give is a average climbrate.

More to concern is this Table
http://www.butcherbirds.de/hypesstorage/Finalproductionspeed.jpg

Shows a speed of +-697 km/h at 10700 m with Climb and Combat Power ! That is 3000 rpm without Gm1 or MW50 (fuel usage still 555l/h) and accoding to manual h0 it can be used unlimited with a note to high fuel consumption .)

lbhskier37
03-07-2005, 03:28 PM
You guys better keep this to yourself lest you be called Luftwhiners. It's only not a whine if you have anecdotal evidence, charts don't count.

faustnik
03-07-2005, 03:49 PM
Did somebody say "chart", well, I have graph:

Speed Graph (http://pages.sbcglobal.net/mdegnan/_images/page154chart.jpg)

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

lrrp22
03-07-2005, 04:25 PM
faustnik,

I noticed that the listed D-9 speed is for 2.02 ATA boost and the Ta 152H-1 speeds for 2.03 ATA. I believe that the D-9's in-service boost was limited to 1.8 ATA, but I'm not sure if the same applied to the H-1's Jumo 213E. Do you have any further details regarding these numbers?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by faustnik:
Did somebody say "chart", well, I have graph:

http://pages.sbcglobal.net/mdegnan/_images/page154chart.jpg

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

faustnik
03-07-2005, 04:35 PM
No but, I have another graph:

Another graph (http://pages.sbcglobal.net/mdegnan/_images/Fw190A8_A9vsTa%20152speed.jpg)

lrrp22
03-07-2005, 04:47 PM
Thanks, faustnik- keep 'em coming! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

In this case, the H-1's boost is listed as 1.92 ATA with, apparently, MW-50. Interesting.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by faustnik:
No but, I have another graph:

http://pages.sbcglobal.net/mdegnan/_images/Fw190A8_A9vsTa%20152speed.jpg <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

BBB_Hyperion
03-07-2005, 04:50 PM
lrrp22 that maybe different subvariants of the Jumo 213 with higher boost.

RusskiyeVityazi
03-07-2005, 05:51 PM
Can anyone enlight me about why the Ta152C is not going to be added to the game?

p1ngu666
03-07-2005, 06:10 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RusskiyeVityazi:
Can anyone enlight me about why the Ta152C is not going to be added to the game? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

harti made it, but all his models went abit http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif or something http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

the speeds on ilc look about right to me, compaired to fausniks graph

RusskiyeVityazi
03-07-2005, 06:50 PM
Went a bit what? Details, pretty please...

BBB_Hyperion
03-07-2005, 07:10 PM
Model was full of errors for Ta152c iirc so wont be added. Except someone can produce a 100 % error free model in no time .)

p1ngu666
03-07-2005, 10:35 PM
yeah, aprently he did typhoon with a sharp wing...

typhoon has wing thicker than hurri....

its also the BIGGEST slab of badass plane your ever gonna come across

Plebanos
03-08-2005, 12:01 AM
hm, this sounds interesting. the more sources you analyse the more options you hav.
so, at the end of the day, you think our 152 is modelled properly or not?

dadada1
03-08-2005, 04:12 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Plebanos:
hm, this sounds interesting. the more sources you analyse the more options you hav.
so, at the end of the day, you think our 152 is modelled properly or not? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Its a lot better now than when it was first introduced, certainly as far as high altitude turning is concerned. Most planes in this sim have overboosted climb performance and in that respect the TA is no exception. The thing that really bugs me and has for a long time is the overheat which flying online is a liability, offline switch off the overheat, AI do. I think this is as close as we're going to get regarding performance, which is a lot better than where we started.

dadada1
03-08-2005, 07:40 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Plebanos:
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _______________________
"during dogfights the p51 would turn very sharply and fire its guns almost immediately initially, during the first turn, the ta 152s turn radius would be larger than that of the p51s, but would then became smaller. thus if someone survived the first attack of the mustang, it was quite possible to line up behind the mustang during the following turns..."
well, all these recollections mention that ta 152 was an agile and maneuverable bird - unlike it is now in the sim.
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _______________________


Why do you think that the Ta 152 is not agile or manouverable in sim ? At low altitude I find it very manouverable, more
so than any 190. If you time your turn right and have enough energy you can turn inside a Yak or Lagg, this seems okay to me. You will loose energy quicker than either of the aforementioned, also okay. Are you experienceing problems at high altitude with turns? All aircraft turn performance are affected by altitude. I'll try Spit and P51 later @ 10,000m more extensively and compare my feeling regarding their turnng ability here. I only tried them briefly after 3.04, but felt them to be inferior. As ever I'm interested in others impressions and comparisons regarding other AC in sim, other Ta drivers please respond.

Vipez-
03-08-2005, 10:17 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by stathem:
I think you'll find the version in game is a very specailised High altitude interceptor that didn't see combat, I suggest you're man was flying a different version. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

the version we have in game did see action.. TA152H-1.. though in limited numbers, but it was there in 1945... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
TA152C (low alt version) did not see action though few examples had been complited by end of the war

p1ngu666
03-09-2005, 09:45 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Plebanos:
hm, this sounds interesting. the more sources you analyse the more options you hav.
so, at the end of the day, you think our 152 is modelled properly or not? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

speed looks ok to me, otherwise, ive no idea http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

dadada1
03-09-2005, 10:55 AM
I tried the P51 last night, as far as speed was concerned, the Ta was superior as expected. Subjective turning comparisons were interesting. For me there was not tht much to choose between the two until you took into account each aircrafts stall charachteristics. For me the Ta gives you more warning that a stall is imminent, when it does come it's not hard to recover from, and not particularly violent unless you ignore the signs. The P51 initially gives the impression of holding a turn @ 10k better, but the stall comes in quiet quickly and also with quiet a violent snap that you have no control over. Recovery does'nt take much longer than the Ta, but the way in which the P51 stalls I feel is a distinct disadvantage in comparison to the Ta.

robban75
03-09-2005, 12:15 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Plebanos:
hm, this sounds interesting. the more sources you analyse the more options you hav.
so, at the end of the day, you think our 152 is modelled properly or not? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The Ta suffers from the same speed bug as the Fw 190's. They get short of breath between 2000 and 4000m. On the other hand, tha Ta is rather generously modelled in terms of SL topspeed.

Here's hoping that the patch will redress this SERIOUS bug. As you all now, the Wurger needs speed more than any other plane in this game.

dadada1
03-09-2005, 12:35 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by robban75:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Plebanos:
hm, this sounds interesting. the more sources you analyse the more options you hav.
so, at the end of the day, you think our 152 is modelled properly or not? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The Ta suffers from the same speed bug as the Fw 190's. They get short of breath between 2000 and 4000m. On the other hand, tha Ta is rather generously modelled in terms of SL topspeed.

Here's hoping that the patch will redress this SERIOUS bug. As you all now, the Wurger needs speed more than any other plane in this game. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Can you give an estimate of how much speed the Ta has lost? I haven't tried a speed run @ 10 k for ages, is this effected ? Oh and hi.

Lufbery_Boy
03-09-2005, 12:45 PM
I conducted similar top speed tests a while back (still using version 2.04 AEP) and, thanks to advice from dadada1, was able to obtain a TAS of 755 km/h at 9500 meters following a shallow dive from 10000 meters, under the following conditions:

Engine overheat turned OFF
110% power, GM-1 engaged above 9000 meters
Radiator closed
Prop pitch 80%

It took a long time to accelerate to top speed at this altitude, and had the overheat option been checked the engine would have failed long before top speed was reached.

Another problem, which all of us are by now familiar with, was the high-altitude (above 10000 m) flight modeling. Stats show the Ta 152 H-1 should max out at 12500 m with a TAS of around 752 km/h : I was only able to reach around 550. This pretty much relegates the Ta 152 H-1 to the sidelines, since its true high altitude advantage over the P47 or Spitfire cannot be simulated here.

p1ngu666
03-09-2005, 03:11 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by robban75:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Plebanos:
hm, this sounds interesting. the more sources you analyse the more options you hav.
so, at the end of the day, you think our 152 is modelled properly or not? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The Ta suffers from the same speed bug as the Fw 190's. They get short of breath between 2000 and 4000m. On the other hand, tha Ta is rather generously modelled in terms of SL topspeed.

Here's hoping that the patch will redress this SERIOUS bug. As you all now, the Wurger needs speed more than any other plane in this game. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

tbh, tb3 needs speed more http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

dadada1
03-10-2005, 06:18 AM
I'm not sure if this has been posted here before, but there is currently a restoration of a Ta 152 going on at the NASM in the States. Ignore the link to the "the 152 page", its dead but have a look at the pages "go to".

http://www.geocities.com/ta152uk/index.html