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Stafroty
10-24-2008, 06:56 PM
yea, again.

Im yet still bugged how nearby plane explosion takes my ride down as well. and it doesnt have to be so near.

So whats really going off with such big force when planes in sim explodes??

ammunition cant cause such damage to nearby objects, as ammunition casings are lighter than the bullets themselfs, meaning that casing is gonna fly lots of faster than the bullet when ammo cooks off.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7BX1kvJVrjc

it cant be cannon ammo because they have safetys in fuses, preventing them to explode.

it cant be fuel/air mixture, cause i´ve yet havent seen any flight show crash vid where plane goes off big, like in sim. no matter if its using kerosine, gasoline whatever.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZjtKWQrERns

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YL1FblthxQ0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhbcxqKPXR4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NhbmvEoNMOc&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gy5NfpCoprQ&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmXD8HlwMuk&feature=related


it cant be oxygen bottle, cos its too small to cause such bang.. so what it is, for real??

Fuel ignites in a way, which cant be called as an explosion. Its speed of "detonation" during crash isnt fast enought to toss standing man to ground.
nor it cant be flames themselfs melting/softing up plane skin, as anyone can try to heat up needle with lighter, it isnt gettin red right away, it takes bit of time, and planes arent sittin in fire that long to that to have any effect on their skin.

i really would like to know, Just to understand how "reality" in sim works, cause in real world, i havent found anything to back this behavior up.


anyone?

and this isnt a complaint, just a try to get sim more realistic, and i know, many doenst like it.

Stafroty
10-24-2008, 06:56 PM
yea, again.

Im yet still bugged how nearby plane explosion takes my ride down as well. and it doesnt have to be so near.

So whats really going off with such big force when planes in sim explodes??

ammunition cant cause such damage to nearby objects, as ammunition casings are lighter than the bullets themselfs, meaning that casing is gonna fly lots of faster than the bullet when ammo cooks off.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7BX1kvJVrjc

it cant be cannon ammo because they have safetys in fuses, preventing them to explode.

it cant be fuel/air mixture, cause i´ve yet havent seen any flight show crash vid where plane goes off big, like in sim. no matter if its using kerosine, gasoline whatever.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZjtKWQrERns

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YL1FblthxQ0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhbcxqKPXR4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NhbmvEoNMOc&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gy5NfpCoprQ&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmXD8HlwMuk&feature=related


it cant be oxygen bottle, cos its too small to cause such bang.. so what it is, for real??

Fuel ignites in a way, which cant be called as an explosion. Its speed of "detonation" during crash isnt fast enought to toss standing man to ground.
nor it cant be flames themselfs melting/softing up plane skin, as anyone can try to heat up needle with lighter, it isnt gettin red right away, it takes bit of time, and planes arent sittin in fire that long to that to have any effect on their skin.

i really would like to know, Just to understand how "reality" in sim works, cause in real world, i havent found anything to back this behavior up.


anyone?

and this isnt a complaint, just a try to get sim more realistic, and i know, many doenst like it.

LW_lcarp
10-24-2008, 07:29 PM
Its the Hollywood syndrome. Everything makes a big explosion and nothing is safe

Jex_TE
10-25-2008, 04:50 AM
Myth busters are a bunch of idiots. Who keeps one bullet in an oven? The test should have been hundreds of bullets, in their packets.

Its like the time they tested vegetable oil as a substitute for diesal busting the myth that you get twice as many miles with veggy oil. In fact you got about 3 miles less on a litre. "so it's not worth using it because if everyone uses it - it'll get really expensive"

Err... well until that time comes, why not use it since it costs 0.30 a litre? Duh - didn't think of that

****s

F0_Dark_P
10-25-2008, 08:05 AM
Stop whining about your gas prices!, listen to this, a litre gasoline cost 1,49 USD in Sweden! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Stafroty
10-25-2008, 09:53 AM
hehe, gasoline is our ancestors who finally get in the heaven while we in the process, get in the hell http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

CHAV_
10-25-2008, 10:03 AM
hhhmmmm? Maybe because its a game? ponder realization that your all just big kids playing a game ...then you will be fine.

h009291
10-25-2008, 11:00 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Stafroty:
Im yet still bugged how nearby plane explosion takes my ride down as well. and it doesnt have to be so near.

So whats really going off with such big force when planes in sim explodes??. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Why do you think when Artillery shells explode in the air, it kills people all around the surrounding area? It's called shrapnel http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif

SeaFireLIV
10-25-2008, 11:12 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by h009291:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Stafroty:
Im yet still bugged how nearby plane explosion takes my ride down as well. and it doesnt have to be so near.

So whats really going off with such big force when planes in sim explodes??. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Why do you think when Artillery shells explode in the air, it kills people all around the surrounding area? It's called shrapnel http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yep. When ever an unexploded bomb or even just an unsafe potentially explosive container is discovered near a fire an ntire block and further will be evacuated because sharpnl from explosions can kill a great many people near and some at long distance. Bits fly far and can damage more than just flesh.

BaronUnderpants
10-25-2008, 03:29 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by h009291:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Stafroty:
Im yet still bugged how nearby plane explosion takes my ride down as well. and it doesnt have to be so near.

So whats really going off with such big force when planes in sim explodes??. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Why do you think when Artillery shells explode in the air, it kills people all around the surrounding area? It's called shrapnel http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yep. When ever an unexploded bomb or even just an unsafe potentially explosive container is discovered near a fire an ntire block and further will be evacuated because sharpnl from explosions can kill a great many people near and some at long distance. Bits fly far and can damage more than just flesh. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Shockwave does even more damage.(up to a sertain distance off course)

If u stand in close proximety to an explosion, shrapnel can "miss" u, the shockwave however wont.

Divine-Wind
10-25-2008, 03:33 PM
IIRC shrapnel and shockwaves do most of the actual damage. (Like an attack pilot!) The fireball just looks nice. (Like a fighter pilot!) http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Tab_Flettner
10-25-2008, 04:18 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Just to understand how "reality" in sim works </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Where's raaaaaaaiiiddd?

Divine-Wind
10-25-2008, 04:32 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Tab_Flettner:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Just to understand how "reality" in sim works </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Where's raaaaaaaiiiddd? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
lol, does he still hang around here?

SeaFireLIV
10-25-2008, 04:38 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Divine-Wind:

lol, does he still hang around here? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Maybe not in GD, but he`s happily spouting strange wonders in OT.

buzzsaw1939
10-25-2008, 08:53 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by CHAV_:
hhhmmmm? Maybe because its a game? ponder realization that your all just big kids playing a game ...then you will be fine. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Couldn't have said it better!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

M_Gunz
10-25-2008, 11:11 PM
When the target plane blows up (fuel and air inside the fuselage?) then
the tail wheel coming through your windscreen does you in, be sure!

M_Gunz
10-25-2008, 11:13 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by CHAV_:
hhhmmmm? Maybe because its a game? ponder realization that your all just big kids playing a game ...then you will be fine. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If I understand what chavs are, that's a bit ironic ain't it?

Stafroty
10-26-2008, 01:24 PM
"Maybe because its a game? ponder realization that your all just big kids playing a game ...then you will be fine."

yes, really good reason to stop all the whining about every issue in game, including fw bar, turn rates, damage models, .50cal issues, cannon issues, whatever, aint it?
So what really is so bad to get things more realistic in sim?? or do we want more arcade?


of course your personal view towards me affects totally how u ppl view the issue itself.

if in your opinion im *******, all the things i say is wrong. i know its hard to seperate those two single things from together.

"Why do you think when Artillery shells explode in the air, it kills people all around the surrounding area? It's called shrapnel whisper"

yes i understand completelly that artillery shells goes of airburst, but what i see is that airplane IS NOT AN ARTILLERY SHELL. Just explain pls how you get plane parts in explosion to accelerate in such speeds like in artillery shell? what causes such force? in artillery shell there is explosives inside iron shell, burning speed some 4000-6000 metres per second, makin shell go in pieces and giving them the push for high speed. its much higher than some 100m/sec on them.

Then think about fuel "exploding", its not an explosion in its very terms, but some fire puffs, where "blast wave" speeds are just few meters per second. just check ANY link i posted earlier, u see the speeds with your very own eyes on those fire balls. Of course u understand, that real artillery shell doesnt make such gasoline fire balls like in movies you´ve have seen. So IN real terms, It cant accelerate plane parts in speeds you guys seem to think it would. Its more likely INERTIA of rollin depris on ground what makes parts fly, yet not so fast.

And yes, you are not intrested to read because you dont like me, and every word i say is rubbish, even if its true. Get over those personal issues and stick to issue im speakin.


"Yep. When ever an unexploded bomb or even just an unsafe potentially explosive container is discovered near a fire an ntire block and further will be evacuated because sharpnl from explosions can kill a great many people near and some at long distance. Bits fly far and can damage more than just flesh."

just how fast does fire warm up cannon shell and its explosive material in it? it takes quite a time before hundred of grams iron gets to critical temperatures. Also the collision with ground on high speeds doesnt blow up the ammunition, as has been shown in many cases where crashed planes have found, there is still cannon ammo intact, even if the plane itself is a total mess, even with 90 degree high speed crashes on ground.

yet in above answer writer seems to think that plane is a bomb. yet he didnt explain or think what really makes it a bomb.

"Shockwave does even more damage.(up to a sertain distance off course)

If u stand in close proximety to an explosion, shrapnel can "miss" u, the shockwave however wont."

and shockwave comes from what? fuel poof? any of above, or any other films ive seen havent proven that it creates such shockwave ppl seems to think it does. just look the films.

and about real explosives. ive been in army, where we simulated artillery fire with 200g TNT "soap pieces", i sitted some 3-6 meters away from closest TNT pieces while they go off, without anything between me and them, and only thing i noticed was little clothes shake and the bang, nothing serious. Ask from any real explosives tech person about this.

in open air, little bangs doesnt much affect as pressure of explosion is spreading freely.


"IIRC shrapnel and shockwaves do most of the actual damage. (Like an attack pilot!) The fireball just looks nice. (Like a fighter pilot!)"

yes, on bombs and artillery/cannon shells which been fired. yet plane is not such. and yet ammo doesnt go off such hard.

Most of you have seen gunsight film where FWD9 is hit on ammo storage on right wing. Wing just snaps off but plane fuselage etc isnt affected, Unlike in game.

"When the target plane blows up (fuel and air inside the fuselage?) then
the tail wheel coming through your windscreen does you in, be sure"

give me any film where such BIG BOOM happens. You know, that its REALLY accurate mixture of air/gasoline vapours which is demanded to make boom, and even when it happens, It doesnt mean its like TNT or anything like that, not even a close. if it would, they would not use explosives, but such correct mixture in bombs whatever.


i would agree that flying parts of the plane would cause damage, IF they hit the plane, like they used to do earlier versions of the game.

They are already animated, so what is problem?


Anyway, everyone has their own truth about the issue, but can it stand up closer inspection in theoritical/informational way? Or do you guys even bother, cause "you already know"?

Dont agree that everyone else can be wrong but you.

and ye, this issue doenst have anything to do with your emotions towards me or with anything.

**
grenades shockwaves, pay attention how little close explosion shakes those "target dummys":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SsiWWPupEuk&feature=related

in here gas explosion with huge fireball effect does not tear the target dummy in parts, just little shake on clothes. no shockwave there, but lil wind:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhti2xAB-Gk

tried to find closed space fuel air explosion test by mythbusters but could not. they had difficulties makin it go boom. It really takes "luck" to get correct mixture.

It could HAPPEN(-with less effect than in game), of course, but not ALWAYS http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Stafroty
10-26-2008, 03:12 PM
some example trackss of damage model, sorry for slow aiming as got no proper rudder control.


http://www.2shared.com/file/4166607/24398bfc/40mboom.html
http://www.2shared.com/file/4166608/b486966d/allnutz.html
http://www.2shared.com/file/4166610/a3462f1e/crash_damage.html
http://www.2shared.com/file/4166611/d4411f88/792mmsuicide.html
http://www.2shared.com/file/4166612/4d484e32/20mmsuicide.html
http://www.2shared.com/file/4166613/3a4f7ea4/30mmsuicide.html

Tranie117
10-27-2008, 07:22 PM
I don't mean to offend anyone but...

-It'd be nice if people stop picking at minnor faults this game has, I'd like to see you make a better game http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif
-IL-2 is a relativly cheap game and look what you get! Compared to other more expensie games, full of flaws like hollywood explosion syndrom.
-I know it's un realistic to expect people to never complain, constructive critisism is a good thing. But planes exploding is a very rare occasion, even less often are you in the blast radius. So don't let it get ya down, look at what a fantastic game you have bought, compare it to some of the **** PS 3/360 games that have come out recently, cheap tack with out the cheap. It's a minnor problem don't let it get ya down.

WTE_Galway
10-27-2008, 08:26 PM
I agree that explosions seem a bit overdone though more visually than anything else I don't usually get taken out by them.

The USUAL complaint is the other way around, people complain that there is not enough damage effects ... typical convesration :

Poster 1: "I shot a bomber for a full 2 seconds or more at 300 meters with my 0.50 cal in my P51 and nothing happened ... I expected flames and explosions and bits to fall of this game sucks"

Poster 2: "It was only 0.50 cal"

Poster 1: "What do you mean 0.50 cal rocked, all the US planes used it and the P51 won the war. STFU if I am awesome enough to choose to fly the P51 I expect things to blow up when I shoot at them."

Stafroty
10-28-2008, 06:32 AM
"It'd be nice if people stop picking at minnor faults this game has, I'd like to see you make a better game"

isnt that what im makin here? critisism is one way to make it happen. after that some bugs etc is gettin fixed up by patch.
Just like beta testing.

Im not saying that this game is lousy, it isnt. its been hookin me up since the start. Game is excellent, but i want it to be superior http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

"But planes exploding is a very rare occasion, even less often are you in the blast radius."

actually, for me planes explode quite often, and most of my online deaths is caused by this reason. I want to get close, fire accuratelly and kill the enemy fast, saving ammo and time. Just like they did in real. I want this game to be simulation of real things, now it isnt in some parts.

"I agree that explosions seem a bit overdone though more visually than anything else I don't usually get taken out by them."


yes, visually "explosions" are huge and long lasting in game, many times bigger/longer lasting than in real life.

Just look when you use 20mm cannon on some target, how slowly explosion is modelled. it doesnt give feeling that theres stuff "burning" up to 6000m per sec speeds. those should be quick flashes, and smaller which leaves behind some black smoke.


"The USUAL complaint is the other way around, people complain that there is not enough damage effects"

damage modellin in game, the game engine itself. i dont believe it to be able or it hasnt been coded that there would be different kinds of damage caused.

Cannon HE ammo tears plane skin, inside parts, puts hole in them like hydraulics, causing leaks in em, slowly losing control if not right away, deforms parts.

Cannon and Mg AP ammo causes almost clean holes depending which angle they enter in. it just makes hole while it penetrates thru objects in its way as long it has kinetic energy (speed and mass) left, it doenst deform skin or inside parts. Just hole. Good for penetrating armour plates for PK etc. many rounds on same area of course starts to make an effect on stucture.

incendiary ammo isnt much effectin in game, or self sealing tanks are way too in game.