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View Full Version : The Fall Issue #2 .... Wow. Also, Bill Miles.



RzaRecta357
12-15-2010, 08:21 PM
Has anyone read this yet? This comic is amazing so far.

There is NO way that the papal staff and that royal staff were the same piece of eden.

What happened when Daniels Ancestor touched it? Daniel said he could SEE the shape of time and it talked of sons of sons of sons. Is daniel actually 16 or what?

He said he KNEW what he has to do and needs to see the mentor because he knows the shape of time.

His ancestor was lifted into light by Juno, Minerva and another Female god....that picture from the t-shirt on the workshop. Everything else was destroyed but him.

Seriously guys, get these comics.

Also, the boss of the camp Daniel goes to was on the phone with BILL MILES! One of Desmonds family members probably!

RzaRecta357
12-15-2010, 08:21 PM
Has anyone read this yet? This comic is amazing so far.

There is NO way that the papal staff and that royal staff were the same piece of eden.

What happened when Daniels Ancestor touched it? Daniel said he could SEE the shape of time and it talked of sons of sons of sons. Is daniel actually 16 or what?

He said he KNEW what he has to do and needs to see the mentor because he knows the shape of time.

His ancestor was lifted into light by Juno, Minerva and another Female god....that picture from the t-shirt on the workshop. Everything else was destroyed but him.

Seriously guys, get these comics.

Also, the boss of the camp Daniel goes to was on the phone with BILL MILES! One of Desmonds family members probably!

TwentyGlyphs
12-15-2010, 08:49 PM
My impression was that it's strongly hinted that Daniel Cross is Subject 16. I didn't pick up on the clues in the first issue, but now they're undeniable. The first issue starts from a first-person view of someone laying down on their back in Abstergo, with a male leaning over them. I think it's Warren Vidic because he says the person in front of them is "a gift," mirroring his dialogue with Desmond about Those Who Came Before. Presumably the person on the opening page of the series is about to go into the Animus. The rest of the story through issue 2 never again touches on what was going on during this opening scene.

Next we meet Daniel Cross, who's experiencing Bleeding Effect-like flashbacks of a Russian ancestor from the late 1800s and early 1900s, all without the Animus. Apparently Subject 16 was doing this a lot. Daniel's also already pretty messed up and crazy due to these unexplained memory flashbacks.

In Issue #2, it's hinted that Daniel Cross has Eagle Vision, and he also displays some fighting skills he didn't know he had and maybe a free run. In the pivotal memory he experiences in the issue, he sees his Russian ancestor at the Tunguska event touch the Staff and experiences a vision that involves history and snippets of dialogue, including a mention of Eden and dialogue from The Truth video in AC2. Someone in this vision appears to even talk directly to Daniel, saying they should meet. Daniel asks if this person is him. One of the visions also appears to be an American Civil War battle, perhaps Gettysburg like Subject 16 mentions in one of The Truth files in AC2.

After this vision, Daniel says he sees the shape of time and knows his purpose and what he needs to do. He needs to find the Mentor. Seeing the shape of time definitely sounds like Subject 16.

The only conclusion I can come to is that Daniel Cross saw The Truth before he was ever at Abstergo and now knows he must be captured by Abstergo and help guide Desmond along his own path. The opening scene of the comic is foreshadowing the end, when Subject 16 gets to Abstergo.

Another revelation is that William M. from AC: Brotherhood's emails is almost definitely William Miles. At one point in issue #2, an Assassin leader in the current order says he just spoke to Bill Miles. From the one line of dialogue, Bill Miles sounds relatively important within The Order, but he doesn't sound like the top leader.

The Assassin leader in the late 1990s is known as the Mentor. Apparently no one knows where he is or knows what he even looks like. Well, in issue 1 and 2 Nikolai Orelov (Daniel's ancestor) also mentions the Mentor around 100 years earlier. The Mentor seems to live for a long time, huh? Also, in issue #1, the Russian Czar tells Nikolai to tell his master the Mentor how he failed — if he can find him.

My personal theory is that Altair is the Mentor and his "soul" is immortal in the same way that Subject 16 is still alive in ACB. He must have ways of communicating with people from wherever it is that his consciousness resides. Or he could just be really old, but no one else seems to have gotten the ability to live longer physically from a Piece of Eden. Altair's last codex entry says he knows his body's elements will soon return to the earth, but what of his consciousness? He says there's no harm in one last look into the apple...

Of course, the Mentor could also be Daniel Cross himself, Subject 16, as seen in ACB.

I've enjoyed the series so far. I'm surprised at how much it's tying into the main story.

TheSpectator
12-15-2010, 09:27 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by coryplayspiano:
My impression was that it's strongly hinted that Daniel Cross is Subject 16. I didn't pick up on the clues in the first issue, but now they're undeniable. The first issue starts from a first-person view of someone laying down on their back in Abstergo, with a male leaning over them. I think it's Warren Vidic because he says the person in front of them is "a gift," mirroring his dialogue with Desmond about Those Who Came Before. Presumably the person on the opening page of the series is about to go into the Animus. The rest of the story through issue 2 never again touches on what was going on during this opening scene.

Next we meet Daniel Cross, who's experiencing Bleeding Effect-like flashbacks of a Russian ancestor from the late 1800s and early 1900s, all without the Animus. Apparently Subject 16 was doing this a lot. Daniel's also already pretty messed up and crazy due to these unexplained memory flashbacks.

In Issue #2, it's hinted that Daniel Cross has Eagle Vision, and he also displays some fighting skills he didn't know he had and maybe a free run. In the pivotal memory he experiences in the issue, he sees his Russian ancestor at the Tunguska event touch the Staff and experiences a vision that involves history and snippets of dialogue, including a mention of Eden and dialogue from The Truth video in AC2. Someone in this vision appears to even talk directly to Daniel, saying they should meet. Daniel asks if this person is him. One of the visions also appears to be an American Civil War battle, perhaps Gettysburg like Subject 16 mentions in one of The Truth files in AC2.

After this vision, Daniel says he sees the shape of time and knows his purpose and what he needs to do. He needs to find the Mentor. Seeing the shape of time definitely sounds like Subject 16.

The only conclusion I can come to is that Daniel Cross saw The Truth before he was ever at Abstergo and now knows he must be captured by Abstergo and help guide Desmond along his own path. The opening scene of the comic is foreshadowing the end, when Subject 16 gets to Abstergo.

Another revelation is that William M. from AC: Brotherhood's emails is almost definitely William Miles. At one point in issue #2, an Assassin leader in the current order says he just spoke to Bill Miles. From the one line of dialogue, Bill Miles sounds relatively important within The Order, but he doesn't sound like the top leader.

The Assassin leader in the late 1990s is known as the Mentor. Apparently no one knows where he is or knows what he even looks like. Well, in issue 1 and 2 Nikolai Orelov (Daniel's ancestor) also mentions the Mentor around 100 years earlier. The Mentor seems to live for a long time, huh? Also, in issue #1, the Russian Czar tells Nikolai to tell his master the Mentor how he failed — if he can find him.

My personal theory is that Altair is the Mentor and his "soul" is immortal in the same way that Subject 16 is still alive in ACB. He must have ways of communicating with people from wherever it is that his consciousness resides. Or he could just be really old, but no one else seems to have gotten the ability to live longer physically from a Piece of Eden. Altair's last codex entry says he knows his body's elements will soon return to the earth, but what of his consciousness? He says there's no harm in one last look into the apple...

Of course, the Mentor could also be Daniel Cross himself, Subject 16, as seen in ACB.

I've enjoyed the series so far. I'm surprised at how much it's tying into the main story. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif

TwentyGlyphs
12-15-2010, 10:01 PM
Thanks for the applause. Thinking on it some more, Erudito could be the Mentor. It would explain why he knows the email passwords and can hack into Abstergo if he was a consciousness or program living on the Internet, as Subject 16 appears to be in ACB. Hannah also describes the Mentor as a strategic super-genius.

The other interesting bits of the vision in this issue are a large outline of a newborn baby and the dialogue:

The son of the son of the son, to the beginning of all things.

Don't you see? The memories exist at all times and in all places at once. We can access them, but to build an accurate timeline… I don't think it's possible.

A single, infinitely complex organism.

The Earth is the cradle of humanity, but mankind cannot stay in the cradle forever.

BK-110
12-16-2010, 02:04 AM
Well, The Mentor is likely just the order's head. After all, Ezio received the title "Il Mentore" ("The Mentor") when he was promoted to the head of the order.

Abeonis
12-16-2010, 09:25 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by RzaRecta357:
Also, the boss of the camp Daniel goes to was on the phone with BILL MILES! One of Desmonds family members probably! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Major SPOILER notice. But if you've played Brotherhood through to the end and read all the emails, you will notice Lucy was in contact with somebody named William M. Last I checked, "Bill" was a shortened version of the name William...

SteelCity999
12-16-2010, 01:33 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Abeonis:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by RzaRecta357:
Also, the boss of the camp Daniel goes to was on the phone with BILL MILES! One of Desmonds family members probably! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Major SPOILER notice. But if you've played Brotherhood through to the end and read all the emails, you will notice Lucy was in contact with somebody named William M. Last I checked, "Bill" was a shortened version of the name William... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

So if you look at the whole picture...maybe William M.(Bill Miles) is actually Desmonds father? It is not too far off to expect that since Ezio was the leader of the brotherhood, that his offspring would continue to fill in that position. And Desmond did run away(escape) from an assassins camp. I also suspect Daniel is subject 16.

RzaRecta357
12-16-2010, 02:12 PM
I was thinking about the Bill Miles and William thing but wasn't sure if it was another way to say it or not.
Like one of those you know your right in the back of your head but can't remember things.


The foreshadow of the end, I was wondering about that and you totally just made sense of it.

You definately deserve that applause as you just solved the subject 16 riddle I believe. Such a sick way to have it play out too.

Although if that's the case, I don't like his voice actor :P Also, then we might not get to play as him which I was hoping would happen.


So do you guys think that the truth video that he WAS there with Adam and Eve? You see it from a 3rd perspective after all.
I wish we could route people into this topic so we could hear some theories! Keep this bumped!


I still don't know what to believe with the mentor thing.. Obviously "The Son" has great importance now for sure.

I know the whole codex page final entry throws everyone for a loop thinking Altair will come back and I kinda hope he will but in the end it seems kinda fromage.

The shroud carries memories however, so who knows.

TheSpectator
12-16-2010, 02:35 PM
I really hope altairs still alive. I think after AC legacy we will know more about how Altair and ezios story ended (or continued). My guess is that ezio may be going back to masyaf to either find Altair (which would be awesome having them meet) or a Poe which Altair left a message for ezio to receive (he is the prophet after all). He also might find a hot middle eastern babe to "plant a seed" with.

I still haven't read the fall 2 yet but bill miles definitely has to be desmonds dad. I don't know if any of you guys read the French comic about desmonds story between AC2 and brotherhood but he has a flashback where his dad tells him that the eagles should beware of the vultures (eagles being assassins vultures being Templars) so we know that desmonds dad was alive during his childhood and during the 90's.

SteelCity999
12-16-2010, 03:03 PM
I think what we will see in the next AC game based on what is transpiring in The Fall is:
***Spoilers****
Based on some other theories that what we have been playing is a memory within a memory, we will learn that upon Desmond leaving the assassin camp his father went looking for him. At the end of AC:B, Desmond was on his way to be reunited with his father but then he stabbed Lucy. We don't yet know what happened to Shaun and Rebecca. So maybe it is possible that the apple was lost directly after this...maybe the Templars followed them and get ahold of it eventually. So Desmond ends up back at camp but can't remember everything that transpired so needing answers, his father puts him in the animus to relive the past few weeks.

This could lead to the search for another artifact other than the apple in AC3 to stop the templars or maybe they've been searching for the wrong one.

I know one of the writers recently acknowledged the memory within a memory theory as being widely accepted so maybe he is saying it is true? Soo many possibilities....but I think The Fall will be a connecting point somehow. One last thing, we may need to start believing that this will not be a trilogy (main games) like the devs originally planned. It may go up to 4 or 5 with some Brotherhood-type games inbetween.

TheSpectator
12-16-2010, 03:33 PM
Did you see the screenshot at the end of the credits in brotherhood? It showed Shaun and Rebecca standing over Desmond and Lucy with some bloody confused looks on their faces and Desmond passed out on the floor next to Lucy who has the apple in her hand and NO BLOOD!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

TwentyGlyphs
12-16-2010, 05:19 PM
I really think that Desmond is indeed the person who says "Eve..." in The Truth video. There are so many hints about cyclical events that either through time travel or some other strange phenomenon, the past and present will loop around.

Look at the wall at the end of AC1. There's a reference to Revelation 22:13, which says "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End." There's also alpha and omega symbols on the wall. The wall also has a picture of a fractal, which is an infinitely repeating pattern that replicates itself smaller and smaller. The vision that Daniel Cross sees has pictures of DNA drawn all around, but the double helix pattern also appears as the Infinity symbol (?) all over.

Also, the Mayan calendar itself is a clue -- what will really be happening in 2012 is that the calendar will loop around and reset itself at a date of 13.0.0.0.0, much like an old car odometer could loop back around from 99000 to 00000. The last time this date happened was over 5000 years ago on the calendar, at the end of a creation period as the Mayans understood. This time (around 3,000 BC) comes close to a suspected time for Adam and Eve.

Some of the 2012 conjectures are of a doomsday scenario, some sort of start of a new, repeating solar cycle, or the dawn of a new age of peace and understanding. This story seems to be weaving them all together. The research letter in Cluster 10 in ACB talks about people under the age of 30 being more resistant to Abstergo's mental control, which alludes to some kind of evolution in mankind. I think the line in The Fall #2, "A single, infinitely complex organism" alludes to this somehow as well.

Perhaps something happens and only on 12/21/2012 can the Path be opened into the past to the same Mayan calendar date, allowing Desmond to find Eve in Eden, setting up a Butterfly Effect chain of events that will accomplish whatever needs to be accomplished.

SteelCity999
12-16-2010, 07:28 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TheSpectator:
Did you see the screenshot at the end of the credits in brotherhood? It showed Shaun and Rebecca standing over Desmond and Lucy with some bloody confused looks on their faces and Desmond passed out on the floor next to Lucy who has the apple in her hand and NO BLOOD!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

And I believe that is all you know...I mean why would you not hear there voices afterward?? Why two other men?? So no one knows what happens afterward...

SWJS
12-17-2010, 03:48 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by coryplayspiano:
I really think that Desmond is indeed the person who says "Eve..." in The Truth video. There are so many hints about cyclical events that either through time travel or some other strange phenomenon, the past and present will loop around.

Look at the wall at the end of AC1. There's a reference to Revelation 22:13, which says "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End." There's also alpha and omega symbols on the wall. The wall also has a picture of a fractal, which is an infinitely repeating pattern that replicates itself smaller and smaller. The vision that Daniel Cross sees has pictures of DNA drawn all around, but the double helix pattern also appears as the Infinity symbol (?) all over.

Also, the Mayan calendar itself is a clue -- what will really be happening in 2012 is that the calendar will loop around and reset itself at a date of 13.0.0.0.0, much like an old car odometer could loop back around from 99000 to 00000. The last time this date happened was over 5000 years ago on the calendar, at the end of a creation period as the Mayans understood. This time (around 3,000 BC) comes close to a suspected time for Adam and Eve.

Some of the 2012 conjectures are of a doomsday scenario, some sort of start of a new, repeating solar cycle, or the dawn of a new age of peace and understanding. This story seems to be weaving them all together. The research letter in Cluster 10 in ACB talks about people under the age of 30 being more resistant to Abstergo's mental control, which alludes to some kind of evolution in mankind. I think the line in The Fall #2, "A single, infinitely complex organism" alludes to this somehow as well.

Perhaps something happens and only on 12/21/2012 can the Path be opened into the past to the same Mayan calendar date, allowing Desmond to find Eve in Eden, setting up a Butterfly Effect chain of events that will accomplish whatever needs to be accomplished. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>THIS. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SteelCity999:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TheSpectator:
Did you see the screenshot at the end of the credits in brotherhood? It showed Shaun and Rebecca standing over Desmond and Lucy with some bloody confused looks on their faces and Desmond passed out on the floor next to Lucy who has the apple in her hand and NO BLOOD!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

And I believe that is all you know...I mean why would you not hear there voices afterward?? Why two other men?? So no one knows what happens afterward... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Maybe after time unfroze, Shaun and Rebecca were so dumbfounded that they had no idea what was going on and had to call HQ for immediate help?

RzaRecta357
12-18-2010, 12:19 AM
3.Tunguska Incident - Now believed to be the direct result of assault by Assassins. Research station destroyed as was artifact. Alternate wave generation devices have been located in storage, but we have insufficient data at the moment to initiate research. The risk of accident is too high. Lineage Discovery and Acquisition Division should attempt to locate descendants of any attack survivors (either Assassins or Brotherhood) in order to continue research. Resurrecting this particular type of technology will aid us greatly with any holdouts following the Satellite's activation. We're putting together a team to push research in this area.

Email from the first game.

Same people that caught daniel.

dchil279
12-18-2010, 01:18 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by RzaRecta357:
3.Tunguska Incident - Now believed to be the direct result of assault by Assassins. Research station destroyed as was artifact. Alternate wave generation devices have been located in storage, but we have insufficient data at the moment to initiate research. The risk of accident is too high. Lineage Discovery and Acquisition Division should attempt to locate descendants of any attack survivors (either Assassins or Brotherhood) in order to continue research. Resurrecting this particular type of technology will aid us greatly with any holdouts following the Satellite's activation. We're putting together a team to push research in this area.

Email from the first game.

Same people that caught daniel. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Good find

RzaRecta357
12-19-2010, 02:41 PM
So, Bump.


Just cause I think Subject 16 is solved in this topic.

Anyone disagree?

Skylined69
12-19-2010, 03:31 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by RzaRecta357:
So, Bump.


Just cause I think Subject 16 is solved in this topic.

Anyone disagree? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree that it's likely that subject 16 is Daniel Cross, the question that's bugging me however is who are the 2 voices at the end of ACB, I've got a feeling it's William (Bill) Miles and Daniel Cross as one of them claims to be the expert which sounds like it would be Daniel.

Also I'm certain that William (Bill) Miles is Desmonds father as he's mentioned in the Fall issue 2 at which time Desmond would have been just a kid still living at either the Assassins camp that Daniel was taken to if Bill was there or at another one where Bill was based.

I'm also certain that it's Warren Vidic at the start of the Fall #1 as it sounds like him although he looks younger, also back then the tech of the animus may have been in it's infancy explaining the operating table.

The reason I say that Desmond would have been a kid and the reason Warren Vidic would have been younger is if you look at the magazines and papers in the fall they depicts Daniels story taking place around the time Bill Clinton was President.

This would give plenty of time for Daniel to have been captured and experimented on and escape as I don't think he was killed, I think he escaped Abstergo and re-joined the Assassins, given the cellular structure of the Assassins organization it would explain why it's only now given the events at the end of ACB that he and Bill have had reason to make contact with Lucy's cell.

That's just my take on it, it could all be blown out the water with Fall #3 though. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

TwentyGlyphs
12-19-2010, 06:38 PM
In previews, The Fall is said to take place in the late 90s. The issues have shown that it's before the 2000 election gets going, probably placing it in 1999.

I wonder how long 16 would have been using the Animus at Abstergo. An Abstergo letter written in 1985 by "W.V." is shown in Cluster 8 in Brotherhood. The letter mentions testing a device with POE-like effects between Subject 4's Animus sessions. So it seems like the program goes way back, and each subject has been there a whole lot longer than Desmond ever was. There could also be long gaps of time between some of them.

The surprising thing to me is that AC1 seemed to imply that Lucy helped develop the Animus. Maybe it was just the latest version of it though. It really seems like the voices in the credits of Brotherhood were Assassins, but so far they don't seem to know much if anything about the Animus. Somehow Rebecca knows about it, so they must know something in 2012. But in The Fall, they seem to not know much about genetic memory when Daniel first shows up, and he's been seeing his memories as visions outside the Animus.

RzaRecta357
12-22-2010, 01:13 AM
I don't think Daniel escaped and now he's digital or whatever. I'd like for him to be alive but I don't seem him being digital and being alive as two different consciences. I guess we have to wait for the third issue. Anyone know the release? Guess i'll google it.

Confusious30
12-22-2010, 03:19 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by RzaRecta357:
I don't think Daniel escaped and now he's digital or whatever. I'd like for him to be alive but I don't seem him being digital and being alive as two different consciences. I guess we have to wait for the third issue. Anyone know the release? Guess i'll google it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Assassin's Creed: The Fall #3
Estimated Release Date: January 12, 2011

http://comicmegastore.com/images/dc-misc/assassins-creed-the-fall-3.jpg

The exciting comic book companion to the acclaimed videogame series reaches its final issue! The streets of Petrograd are filled with the color and noise of revolution - the Bolsheviks have taken control of the country, but there's still conflict within the ranks. Assassin Nikolai Orelov confronts the abdicated Tsar Nicholas II to learn the final location of the Staff. And in the present, Daniel Cross completes his pilgrimage to find the elusive Mentor of the Assassins, a quest that changes the Order forever...

RzaRecta357
12-22-2010, 07:08 PM
Man, that sounds SICK!!! Im excited!!!! But I thought the staff blew up if it gave him visions and what not. Guess we'll find out. Also, change the order forever. I wonder if he's going to see this Mentor. Man, like I said im frickin excited!!

But I don't know if I trust that date. I read Dec 1st for that second issue and I didn't get it till like the 10th or something.


Man! Im fricken excited!!! :P

DarthCaedus
12-23-2010, 09:47 AM
It seems to me like Bill (William) Miles could in fact be the Mentor. Since he's from the same family line as Altair, Ezio, and Desmond, all legendary badass Assassins, I'm sure he's super talented and a complete genius. Which is how Hannah Mueller described the Mentor when she was talking to Daniel in the camp.

Scotty056
12-23-2010, 10:01 AM
Where can I get these comics?

Lucky13Desu
12-23-2010, 10:16 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by RzaRecta357:
I was thinking about the Bill Miles and William thing but wasn't sure if it was another way to say it or not.
Like one of those you know your right in the back of your head but can't remember things.


The foreshadow of the end, I was wondering about that and you totally just made sense of it.

You definately deserve that applause as you just solved the subject 16 riddle I believe. Such a sick way to have it play out too.

Although if that's the case, I don't like his voice actor :P Also, then we might not get to play as him which I was hoping would happen.


So do you guys think that the truth video that he WAS there with Adam and Eve? You see it from a 3rd perspective after all.
I wish we could route people into this topic so we could hear some theories! Keep this bumped!


I still don't know what to believe with the mentor thing.. Obviously "The Son" has great importance now for sure.

I know the whole codex page final entry throws everyone for a loop thinking Altair will come back and I kinda hope he will but in the end it seems kinda fromage.

The shroud carries memories however, so who knows. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That makes no sense, isn't altair 500 years away from Ezio's time?

Confusious30
12-23-2010, 11:04 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Lucky13Desu:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by RzaRecta357:
I was thinking about the Bill Miles and William thing but wasn't sure if it was another way to say it or not.
Like one of those you know your right in the back of your head but can't remember things.


The foreshadow of the end, I was wondering about that and you totally just made sense of it.

You definately deserve that applause as you just solved the subject 16 riddle I believe. Such a sick way to have it play out too.

Although if that's the case, I don't like his voice actor :P Also, then we might not get to play as him which I was hoping would happen.


So do you guys think that the truth video that he WAS there with Adam and Eve? You see it from a 3rd perspective after all.
I wish we could route people into this topic so we could hear some theories! Keep this bumped!


I still don't know what to believe with the mentor thing.. Obviously "The Son" has great importance now for sure.

I know the whole codex page final entry throws everyone for a loop thinking Altair will come back and I kinda hope he will but in the end it seems kinda fromage.

The shroud carries memories however, so who knows. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That makes no sense, isn't altair 500 years away from Ezio's time? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Roughly 300.

Chariflame
12-23-2010, 11:16 AM
The Daniel/16 correlation didn't cross (haha) my mind at all when I read Issue #2, but it seems plausible now... The first page of the first issue, the fact this comic takes place well before the first game... Darn! The only thing I can't get my head around is how different their demeanors seem to be and the lack of Russian (which seems to be such a key line of ancestory) in 16's messages and glyphs. But hey, insanity can change a man? I'm kind of hoping they're two seperate people but I wouldn't be surprised if they weren't.

From the Wiki: It has been revealed by the developers of the comic that Daniel will play "a significant role" in the story of Desmond Miles.
...It would certainly fit together.

I'm giddy with excitement about the whole Bill Miles thing, too. Bill is a shortened version of William which pretty much confirms the theories about who William M. was. It's strengthened my belief that he's Desmond's dad, who'd be a high-up member of the Order back on The Farm.

Also if anyone is interested; the snippet of Russian from the first page of Issue #2 ("? ???? ?????" though the accent was missing from the last letter) means "I want to go home". Who was that? A young Daniel?

TheRighteousOne
12-23-2010, 11:26 AM
A couple people have suggested Daniel is 16. I think Daniel is subject 1. Think about it. He was able to access memories before any interaction with the animus. The animus project was probably started with research conducted on him after he is captured by the Templars. That's just my guess, but the animus project had to start from something.

Also my mind strayed to him when trying to figure who the "expert" could be at the end of ACB. Who could possibly be more of an expert than a walking talking animus.

DarthCaedus
12-23-2010, 11:46 AM
No, the Fall takes place in the 1990s, but according to the glyphs in AC2 and ACB (I'm not sure which ones exactly) the Animus was invented in the 1980s.

kriegerdesgottes
12-24-2010, 12:51 AM
just picked it up today and I have to agree it is pretty awesome. I like how it ..spoilers...(sort of) and it finally shows what an assassin camp looks like. I can't wait for the next one now.

kriegerdesgottes
12-24-2010, 02:32 AM
I just realized, there is no way daniel is subject 16. the games imply that subject 16 is a descendant of altair and ezio. But the authors of the fall have said a couple times that daniel and desmond are not related at all, but that daniels story will have a substantial part in desmonds story. so if they are not related there is no way he is subject 16.

Serrachio
12-24-2010, 03:43 AM
Maybe they aren't related directly, but they're both offshoots of Ezio's bloodline.

TheSpectator
12-24-2010, 04:03 AM
Question if i post that crazy picture of daniels hallucination where he finds his purpose and it's got the apple and the mentor in the centre will i get banned????
I just thought we could all discuss it's meaning and such http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

eagleforlife1
12-24-2010, 05:00 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Serrachio:
Maybe they aren't related directly, but they're both offshoots of Ezio's bloodline. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

They can't be related through Ezio though as Daniel is a descendant of Nikolai Orelov who wasn't born into an assassin family.

kriegerdesgottes
12-25-2010, 01:54 AM
They can't be related through Ezio though as Daniel is a descendant of Nikolai Orelov who wasn't born into an assassin family.[/QUOTE] wait do you mean nikolai wasn't? because nikolai does say in the first comic that his father was in fact an assassin. or did you mean daniel wasn't born into an assassin family? cuz that's kinda true.

Millhouse3rd
12-25-2010, 07:21 PM
I don't think Daniel Cross and Subject 16 are the same because Daniel is experiencing the bleeding effect due to his massive drug abuse, 16 experienced the bleeding effect due to prolonged usage of the Animus.

Janoian
12-25-2010, 07:35 PM
But Subject 16 was recalled as Michael in the game once ..

EverlastingBlu
12-29-2010, 01:17 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by coryplayspiano:
My impression was that it's strongly hinted that Daniel Cross is Subject 16. I didn't pick up on the clues in the first issue, but now they're undeniable. The first issue starts from a first-person view of someone laying down on their back in Abstergo, with a male leaning over them. I think it's Warren Vidic because he says the person in front of them is "a gift," mirroring his dialogue with Desmond about Those Who Came Before. Presumably the person on the opening page of the series is about to go into the Animus. The rest of the story through issue 2 never again touches on what was going on during this opening scene.

Next we meet Daniel Cross, who's experiencing Bleeding Effect-like flashbacks of a Russian ancestor from the late 1800s and early 1900s, all without the Animus. Apparently Subject 16 was doing this a lot. Daniel's also already pretty messed up and crazy due to these unexplained memory flashbacks.

In Issue #2, it's hinted that Daniel Cross has Eagle Vision, and he also displays some fighting skills he didn't know he had and maybe a free run. In the pivotal memory he experiences in the issue, he sees his Russian ancestor at the Tunguska event touch the Staff and experiences a vision that involves history and snippets of dialogue, including a mention of Eden and dialogue from The Truth video in AC2. Someone in this vision appears to even talk directly to Daniel, saying they should meet. Daniel asks if this person is him. One of the visions also appears to be an American Civil War battle, perhaps Gettysburg like Subject 16 mentions in one of The Truth files in AC2.

After this vision, Daniel says he sees the shape of time and knows his purpose and what he needs to do. He needs to find the Mentor. Seeing the shape of time definitely sounds like Subject 16.

The only conclusion I can come to is that Daniel Cross saw The Truth before he was ever at Abstergo and now knows he must be captured by Abstergo and help guide Desmond along his own path. The opening scene of the comic is foreshadowing the end, when Subject 16 gets to Abstergo.

Another revelation is that William M. from AC: Brotherhood's emails is almost definitely William Miles. At one point in issue #2, an Assassin leader in the current order says he just spoke to Bill Miles. From the one line of dialogue, Bill Miles sounds relatively important within The Order, but he doesn't sound like the top leader.

The Assassin leader in the late 1990s is known as the Mentor. Apparently no one knows where he is or knows what he even looks like. Well, in issue 1 and 2 Nikolai Orelov (Daniel's ancestor) also mentions the Mentor around 100 years earlier. The Mentor seems to live for a long time, huh? Also, in issue #1, the Russian Czar tells Nikolai to tell his master the Mentor how he failed — if he can find him.

My personal theory is that Altair is the Mentor and his "soul" is immortal in the same way that Subject 16 is still alive in ACB. He must have ways of communicating with people from wherever it is that his consciousness resides. Or he could just be really old, but no one else seems to have gotten the ability to live longer physically from a Piece of Eden. Altair's last codex entry says he knows his body's elements will soon return to the earth, but what of his consciousness? He says there's no harm in one last look into the apple...

Of course, the Mentor could also be Daniel Cross himself, Subject 16, as seen in ACB.

I've enjoyed the series so far. I'm surprised at how much it's tying into the main story. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree with most of that, except for the Mentor part and the immortality thing. Now, I'm sure that you probably just missed this, but all of the heads of the Brotherhood are either called 'Mentore' or 'Master'. The heads are all different people--just with the same name. So, that's why this person is mentioned a few times in both/all timelines: it's the same name, the same post (the head) in the Order, but different people.
Other than that, though, I agree with you. :3

Also, as for the two voices at the credits (which someone mentioned here, though I don't remember...):
I think it's Paul Bellamy and William M. I don't know who's the animus (animi?) expert, but I think it's them. :3 It would be pretty BAMF.
But, I don't know... karma seems to like biting people in the ***....

bkb34
12-29-2010, 10:11 AM
Let me start off by saying that I've yet to read any of The Fall http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif , although I really do want to....

1. My thoughts on how Daniel Cross experiences the "Bleeding Effect"/hallucinations before spending any time in the Animus: In ACB when the team first arrives at the Villa, there is talk about a women subject (can't specifically remember her subject #, but before 16) that was pregnant during her time in the Animus. I think this could be Daniel Cross' mother and while in the womb, he experienced the Animus and this causes him so called natural bleeding effect...
2. Daniel Cross is Subject 16? I think it's plausible, especially if my above theory is true. If that was his mother, who was a Subject before 16, he could very well be 16...

That's my 2 cents on what I've gathered from it so far... I really need to run down the first 2 issues and get more caught up with it, but it's always fun to speculate http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif...

TachyonicRage
12-29-2010, 04:19 PM
The Mentor is Erudito
He is a hacker not a absertgo employee
Hannah said the Mentor was a computer expert which is the meaning of hacker.
Erudito hacks absertgo systems with them knowing but not being able to do anything about it. this is connected to the descrption from hannah "Stragetic super genius"

lodylody
12-29-2010, 04:30 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">They can't be related through Ezio though as Daniel is a descendant of Nikolai Orelov who wasn't born into an assassin family. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm sorry, but think about it. Nikolai Orelov has a child, who moves to Italy, has a baby with Ezio's descendant, which means they have a portion of Ezio's blood which means they can relive HIS memories and he is still, indirectly, of the same bloodline.

IIwangcarsII
12-29-2010, 04:36 PM
I couldnt find any of the comics anywhere! i tried in all bookstores and hmv but still couldnt find them. so i orderd all three on ubiworkshop and i have to wait till after 13rd january! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Avl521
12-29-2010, 06:54 PM
As I have said in other threads I think the 2 voices at the end are Erudito and William M.

I haven't read or seen "The Fall" (I can't buy it since it doesn't come out here as far as I know... I have to look a scanned version on the internet or sth http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif)
But from what I know about Erudito he seems to fit perfectly with the "expert" that puts Desmond back in the animus. Just like Rebecca, Erudito seems to be a programmer, computer geek, hacker, code writer, he could probably be an expert in the animus too.
He hacks into abstergo's network without them being able to do anything about it.
He knows and sends the passwords of Rebecca Lucy and Shaun to Desmond and somehow places the mail in the deleted section.
And William M. seems to provide information to shaun and be worried about Desmond just as Lucy.
To me these 2 are the 2 voices at the end of ACB.

About the other stuff I can't say because the fall is totally impossible for me where I live.
So until I find it on the internet or sth like that I won't be able to read it.

Natethegrea201
12-30-2010, 04:53 AM
# t was confirmed that Bill miles is the older sibling of Desmond Miles but they were seperated. However Bill knew about desmond but dis-owned him when he had discovered Desmond ran away from the farm.
# Due to him being Desmond older brother he could also use the Animus to relive the Memories of Altair and Ezio.
# Bill Miles was described as being a more "Mature" version of Desmond, He also almost never took his hood off.
# It is unknown if Desmond now knows about his older brother.
This is from assassins creed wiki itself...sorry if it's been brought up before didn't read the whole thing

Inorganic9_2
12-30-2010, 05:14 AM
^ sauce

Pitalla
12-30-2010, 11:34 AM
assasin's camp... sounds and looks terrible for such a secretive order, its like walking around with a poster that says, HEY I AM AN ASSASIN! come n get me.

=/ srsly.

Avl521
12-30-2010, 12:05 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Natethegrea201:
# t was confirmed that Bill miles is the older sibling of Desmond Miles but they were seperated. However Bill knew about desmond but dis-owned him when he had discovered Desmond ran away from the farm.
# Due to him being Desmond older brother he could also use the Animus to relive the Memories of Altair and Ezio.
# Bill Miles was described as being a more "Mature" version of Desmond, He also almost never took his hood off.
# It is unknown if Desmond now knows about his older brother.
This is from assassins creed wiki itself...sorry if it's been brought up before didn't read the whole thing </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Excuse me if I'm wrong but the AC wiki just says:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Bill Miles is a member of the Assassin Order in modern times. In the late 1990's, Daniel Cross was taken to one of the Assassin camps where Bill Miles was briefly mentioned.

Bill Miles shares the same family name as Desmond Miles; whether there is any connection between the two individuals however, is currently unknown. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

And on top of that before the article starts it says in big red bold letters:

<span class="ev_code_RED">"Don't add speculations of any kind. Only facts are allowed. Any suppositions added here will be deleted." </span>

which most likely means what you stated was just speculation seeing how you say you took it from the AC wiki.

I can't be sure though since I have only read the first issue of AC: The Fall. And Bill Miles is not mentioned there.

RzaRecta357
12-30-2010, 04:03 PM
I still don't believe 16 and Desmond are related.

Some one with super super detail explain to me why they are related?

I mean, if an animus only had two subjects in it....16 and 17...then it would only scan for those.

It scans Desmonds mind and then drops 16 off the screen because the relevant data that was found was Subject 17, when it scanned his brain.

How does this make them related again? Why couldn't 16 just have a different ancestor in Italy? Leaving marks that way? Maybe that's why Viddic couldn't see the vault.

Abeonis
12-30-2010, 04:05 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Natethegrea201:
# t was confirmed that Bill miles is the older sibling of Desmond Miles but they were seperated. However Bill knew about desmond but dis-owned him when he had discovered Desmond ran away from the farm.
# Due to him being Desmond older brother he could also use the Animus to relive the Memories of Altair and Ezio.
# Bill Miles was described as being a more "Mature" version of Desmond, He also almost never took his hood off.
# It is unknown if Desmond now knows about his older brother.
This is from assassins creed wiki itself...sorry if it's been brought up before didn't read the whole thing </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No it's not, you just made that up.

Mr_Stunner
12-30-2010, 04:14 PM
I only noticed now that in the page that appears the apple of eden it's Altair reflected in there

Natethegrea201
12-30-2010, 05:22 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Avl521:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Natethegrea201:
# t was confirmed that Bill miles is the older sibling of Desmond Miles but they were seperated. However Bill knew about desmond but dis-owned him when he had discovered Desmond ran away from the farm.
# Due to him being Desmond older brother he could also use the Animus to relive the Memories of Altair and Ezio.
# Bill Miles was described as being a more "Mature" version of Desmond, He also almost never took his hood off.
# It is unknown if Desmond now knows about his older brother.
This is from assassins creed wiki itself...sorry if it's been brought up before didn't read the whole thing </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Excuse me if I'm wrong but the AC wiki just says:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Bill Miles is a member of the Assassin Order in modern times. In the late 1990's, Daniel Cross was taken to one of the Assassin camps where Bill Miles was briefly mentioned.

Bill Miles shares the same family name as Desmond Miles; whether there is any connection between the two individuals however, is currently unknown. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

And on top of that before the article starts it says in big red bold letters:

<span class="ev_code_RED">"Don't add speculations of any kind. Only facts are allowed. Any suppositions added here will be deleted." </span>

which most likely means what you stated was just speculation seeing how you say you took it from the AC wiki.

I can't be sure though since I have only read the first issue of AC: The Fall. And Bill Miles is not mentioned there. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If you look on Bill Miles on the ac wiki it said that he is Desmond's older brother.

Natethegrea201
12-30-2010, 05:25 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Natethegrea201:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Avl521:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Natethegrea201:
# t was confirmed that Bill miles is the older sibling of Desmond Miles but they were seperated. However Bill knew about desmond but dis-owned him when he had discovered Desmond ran away from the farm.
# Due to him being Desmond older brother he could also use the Animus to relive the Memories of Altair and Ezio.
# Bill Miles was described as being a more "Mature" version of Desmond, He also almost never took his hood off.
# It is unknown if Desmond now knows about his older brother.
This is from assassins creed wiki itself...sorry if it's been brought up before didn't read the whole thing </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Excuse me if I'm wrong but the AC wiki just says:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Bill Miles is a member of the Assassin Order in modern times. In the late 1990's, Daniel Cross was taken to one of the Assassin camps where Bill Miles was briefly mentioned.

Bill Miles shares the same family name as Desmond Miles; whether there is any connection between the two individuals however, is currently unknown. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

And on top of that before the article starts it says in big red bold letters:

<span class="ev_code_RED">"Don't add speculations of any kind. Only facts are allowed. Any suppositions added here will be deleted." </span>

which most likely means what you stated was just speculation seeing how you say you took it from the AC wiki.

I can't be sure though since I have only read the first issue of AC: The Fall. And Bill Miles is not mentioned there. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If you look on Bill Miles on the ac wiki it said that he is Desmond's older brother. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

O sorry it was on there yesterday they took it off...My bad

Avl521
12-30-2010, 05:35 PM
exactly, they must have taken it off because it was most likely speculation.

As for Subject 16 and Desmond being related:

They DON'T HAVE TO BE. But it is at least sure they share Ezio as an ancester.
I'd write why, but I'm tired right now. you can look at a video walkthrough of the beginning and you'll see that at the beginning they didn't know who the acester they needed, and when they find the memory it says "memory match found"
a match means they both had that memory, Lucy knew 16 was obsessed with Italy, they just needed to know which part was relevant to 16. (That part being Ezio's life.)

And btw the rifts and glyphs weren't left there, they were codes written within the animus, meaning Ezio never actually saw these rifts or glyphs, he was just, once again, the medium through which Desmond and the others were able to read and uncover the clues left by 16 inside the animus.

TheSpectator
12-30-2010, 06:13 PM
http://s1205.photobucket.com/a...2_Legion_CPS_020.jpg (http://s1205.photobucket.com/albums/bb433/Ben_Callicott/?action=view&current=ACTF_2_Legion_CPS_020.jpg)

PAGE OF AWESOMNESS

Avl521
12-30-2010, 06:24 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TheSpectator:
http://s1205.photobucket.com/a...2_Legion_CPS_020.jpg (http://s1205.photobucket.com/albums/bb433/Ben_Callicott/?action=view&current=ACTF_2_Legion_CPS_020.jpg)

PAGE OF AWESOMNESS </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's TOO FREAKING SMALL!!! I NEED to see it but I can't. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/bigtears.gif

Mr_Stunner
12-30-2010, 06:43 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Avl521:
exactly, they must have taken it off because it was most likely speculation.

As for Subject 16 and Desmond being related:

They DON'T HAVE TO BE. But it is at least sure they share Ezio as an ancester.
I'd write why, but I'm tired right now. you can look at a video walkthrough of the beginning and you'll see that at the beginning they didn't know who the acester they needed, and when they find the memory it says "memory match found"
a match means they both had that memory, Lucy knew 16 was obsessed with Italy, they just needed to know which part was relevant to 16. (That part being Ezio's life.)

And btw the rifts and glyphs weren't left there, they were codes written within the animus, meaning Ezio never actually saw these rifts or glyphs, he was just, once again, the medium through which Desmond and the others were able to read and uncover the clues left by 16 inside the animus. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually it says relevant memory match found. The Subject 16 name in the animus could be just the username, like if you and your father use the same computer he will have his windows account and you will have yours, in the animus could work the same way subject 16's session and subject 17 session. Nothing says that the match is between the subjects, only says it was a relevant memory, like it was flaged by someone

Serrachio
12-30-2010, 06:58 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mister_Stunner:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Avl521:
exactly, they must have taken it off because it was most likely speculation.

As for Subject 16 and Desmond being related:

They DON'T HAVE TO BE. But it is at least sure they share Ezio as an ancester.
I'd write why, but I'm tired right now. you can look at a video walkthrough of the beginning and you'll see that at the beginning they didn't know who the acester they needed, and when they find the memory it says "memory match found"
a match means they both had that memory, Lucy knew 16 was obsessed with Italy, they just needed to know which part was relevant to 16. (That part being Ezio's life.)

And btw the rifts and glyphs weren't left there, they were codes written within the animus, meaning Ezio never actually saw these rifts or glyphs, he was just, once again, the medium through which Desmond and the others were able to read and uncover the clues left by 16 inside the animus. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually it says relevant memory match found. The Subject 16 name in the animus could be just the username, like if you and your father use the same computer he will have his windows account and you will have yours, in the animus could work the same way subject 16's session and subject 17 session. Nothing says that the match is between the subjects, only says it was a relevant memory, like it was flaged by someone </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It was flagged by Lucy.

Subject 16 is thought to have killed himself before Abstergo could get to a certain point in his memories of Ezio, so they needed someone else who was another genetic link to him (Ezio) to retrieve those memories.

They kidnapped Desmond because he was that person, and Lucy reprogrammed the memory core to Ezio's life as they made it out of Abstergo.

Because Lucy knew what Abstergo wanted, being a part of the Animus Team, she would know that they wanted to go through Ezio's life after Altair's, and that meant she knew which ancestor to place Desmond into.

TheSpectator
12-30-2010, 10:29 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Avl521:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TheSpectator:
http://s1205.photobucket.com/a...2_Legion_CPS_020.jpg (http://s1205.photobucket.com/albums/bb433/Ben_Callicott/?action=view&current=ACTF_2_Legion_CPS_020.jpg)

PAGE OF AWESOMNESS </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's TOO FREAKING SMALL!!! I NEED to see it but I can't. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/bigtears.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Set it to be your background and STRETCH

Avl521
12-30-2010, 10:40 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TheSpectator:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Avl521:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TheSpectator:
http://s1205.photobucket.com/a...2_Legion_CPS_020.jpg (http://s1205.photobucket.com/albums/bb433/Ben_Callicott/?action=view&current=ACTF_2_Legion_CPS_020.jpg)

PAGE OF AWESOMNESS </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's TOO FREAKING SMALL!!! I NEED to see it but I can't. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/bigtears.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Set it to be your background and STRETCH </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I did that, I saved the image and tried zooming on it too, but it's too small and I can't read anything!

Drakonous505
12-31-2010, 04:57 PM
SPOILERS!

If you think about it Daniel Cross could be Subject 16. It is all plausible that he is related to Ezio though branched off from one of his children not an ancestor of Desmond. In the first issue of The Fall Nikolai states the following:
"My father wanted this life, Anna, not I. He came to this country with a dream and made the Narodnaya Volya his cause."

In my mind that validates the fact that Danial and Desmond COULD BE related. If Nikolai's father came to Russia from another country it may not have been Italy given the fact that there is a rough 300 year gap and who knows where one of Ezio's descenders moved to from Italy.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Confusious30:
Assassin's Creed: The Fall #3
Estimated Release Date: January 12, 2011
http://comicmegastore.com/images/dc-misc/assassins-creed-the-fall-3.jpg
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Also if you notice the cover of issue 3 Daniel's hair has grown out to be very long. This could have been over the course of several years where he was looking for The Mentor. Which would also explain how he couldn't have been taken by ABSTERGO right away in 1999. Also pay attention to what's on his left forearm. Didn't anyone wonder where Lucy got that? Hmmm... It is possible ABSTERGO had it but Lucy snagged it before they put it into storage. If anything all of this seems to be adding up to Daniel being Subject 16.

kriegerdesgottes
12-31-2010, 05:23 PM
ok they are not related. sorry but the authors of the book have already said they are not related at the comic con convention last year. It is at about 10/40 check it out they are not related. http://www.gamespot.com/ps3/ac...itialclk%3Bgamespace (http://www.gamespot.com/ps3/action/assassinscreedbrotherhood/video/6270920?&tag=stitialclk%3Bgamespace). this also means that subject 16 can not be daniel since subject 16 also has altair and ezio as ancestors meaning they were related for hundreds of years and still are in the present so subject 16 can not possibly be daniel.

TwentyGlyphs
12-31-2010, 11:05 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Drakonous505:
Also if you notice the cover of issue 3 Daniel's hair has grown out to be very long. This could have been over the course of several years where he was looking for The Mentor. Which would also explain how he couldn't have been taken by ABSTERGO right away in 1999. Also pay attention to what's on his left forearm. Didn't anyone wonder where Lucy got that? Hmmm... It is possible ABSTERGO had it but Lucy snagged it before they put it into storage. If anything all of this seems to be adding up to Daniel being Subject 16. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Great catch on the hair and the hidden blade.

Thanks for the link to the video, kriegerdesgotte. I wouldn't take them saying that Nikolai isn't related to Desmond too literally to say that Daniel couldn't be Subject 16. They could have just meant that Nikolai isn't one of Desmond's ancestors, which is true if Subject 16 and Desmond's most common ancestor is Ezio. And right after they say that Nikolai isn't related to Desmond, they say that Daniel is one of the 16 Abstergo subjects. Just the fact that Daniel's story is taking place in the late 90s/early 2000s limits the number of the Subject he could have been, since we know from Brotherhood that Subject 4 was way back in the mid-80s. We also know that Subject 15 was pregnant, also ruling out Daniel.

There are just too many clues in the vision in The Fall #2 that echo clues that Subject 16 left behind in the AC2 puzzles. There's the dialogue from The Truth video, the Mayan pyramid vision that matches one of the glyphs, the American Civil War vision (16 mentioned holding a rifle at Gettysburg), the Tunguska event itself, the Russian czar with the Staff, and Tesla. The vision even mentions walking in the woods, and a line of dialogue from the start of one of the puzzles in AC2 also mentioned the woods. Where did Subject 16 see all of the things from the AC2 puzzles? This vision makes for an awfully good explanation.

kriegerdesgottes
01-01-2011, 12:16 AM
but it doesn't really make sense. If Daniel and Desmond are not related like they say and whoever subject 16 is, is also related to altair and ezio then how could it be that daniel who is not related to desmond could have the same ancestors? however you bring up good points with 15 being pregnant and the timeline. Those are actually good points.

TwentyGlyphs
01-01-2011, 01:12 AM
I just think you're taking the question from ComicCon too literally. The question was, is the Russian Assassin (Nikolai) related to Desmond? They answered no, but I think that could still leave room for "related through a common ancestor 500 years ago." A lot of people wouldn't think of that as "related," especially when answering questions off the cuff like they were in that interview.

And since they said that Daniel was one of the previous subjects, it wouldn't be all that dramatic of a story to find out he was actually Subject 13, who we've never heard anything about before. They kept mentioning that it would tie into the games in a big way, and more info on Subject 16 would fit that.

erudit0
01-01-2011, 01:52 AM
Subject 16: "I am with you until the end. Find me in the darkness."

Juno: "On the 72nd day before the moment of awakening. You, birthed from our loins and the loins of our enemies. The end and the beginning, who we abhor and honor. The final journey commences. There is one who would accompany you through the gate. She lies not within our sight. The cross darkens the horizon."

Subject 16 = Daniel Cross? Possibly. Find me in the darkness and the cross darkens the horizon. It could well mean that Daniel is subjeect 16, and/or that Daniel already knows who has to accompany Desmond through the gate.

Also think of what she said about the end and the beginning - the alpha and the omega (more subject 16 references). It most possibly means that Desmond is the one (if there's such entitlement), the alpha and the omega, and yet again subject 16 already knows about this (The writings in Abstergo, the alpha and the omega).

Great work guys.

Also, for those of you convinced that Desmond and 16 have to be in direct relationship and that would leave us to his father or a brother. We don't know of the existence of a brother, there isn't possibly a brother. We know that Desmond left the camp after he had some judgement and that would rule out the possibility of his father being subject 16. Also, it all points to William M. being Des' father.

It can mean that also Claudia Auditore had children and maybe she also possessed eagle vision. If not, then at one point, Ezio's offspring had children and 16 and Desmond can be thought of as "distant cousins."

kriegerdesgottes
01-01-2011, 08:26 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by coryplayspiano:
I just think you're taking the question from ComicCon too literally. The question was, is the Russian Assassin (Nikolai) related to Desmond? They answered no, but I think that could still leave room for "related through a common ancestor 500 years ago." A lot of people wouldn't think of that as "related," especially when answering questions off the cuff like they were in that interview.

And since they said that Daniel was one of the previous subjects, it wouldn't be all that dramatic of a story to find out he was actually Subject 13, who we've never heard anything about before. They kept mentioning that it would tie into the games in a big way, and more info on Subject 16 would fit that. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>see that's what I am thinking that daniel is definitely one of the subjects, they even said he is for sure, but I just don't think he is 16 because 16 didn't really lose it until the bleeding effect took effect where daniel's story is a bit different but I guess we will find out soon enough, next one comes out jan 12!

Drakonous505
01-02-2011, 09:54 PM
It'll be interesting to see the next issue... I bet there will be a time gap.

RzaRecta357
01-02-2011, 10:06 PM
I can't wait!!

RH3SUS
01-03-2011, 02:46 PM
guys, sorry to be so picky but i have to clarify one thing: i have posted only a few times in the forums but when i did, i was discussing something about desmond's country of origin and mentioned an AC comic that shows Desmond's working as a barman in Paris.

i was immediately dissed by someone who said that AC comics are not canon.

so... are they or not? i love "the fall" and believe daniel is subject 16 as all the references in the newborn baby image are so coincidental with the stuff that subject 16 left to desmond.

also i'd like to thank the artists for the amazing work in "the fall". they should keep on releasing a lot more AC comics! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/metal.gif

Abeonis
01-03-2011, 03:49 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by RH3SUS:
guys, sorry to be so picky but i have to clarify one thing: i have posted only a few times in the forums but when i did, i was discussing something about desmond's country of origin and mentioned an AC comic that shows Desmond's working as a barman in Paris.

i was immediately dissed by someone who said that AC comics are not canon.

so... are they or not? i love "the fall" and believe daniel is subject 16 as all the references in the newborn baby image are so coincidental with the stuff that subject 16 left to desmond.

also i'd like to thank the artists for the amazing work in "the fall". they should keep on releasing a lot more AC comics! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/metal.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Everything published by Ubisoft, or endorsed by them is canon. That includes the comics, the only exception is the French Graphic Novel which includes scenes such as Subject 16 appearing before Desmond... it is ambiguously canon at best.

RH3SUS
01-03-2011, 04:11 PM
well, yes but it's a nasty precedent. if some comics are canon except one then we're in a huge mess don't ya think?

ubisoft should say something about that IMO.

dchil279
01-03-2011, 06:24 PM
Could someone summarize issue #2 for me because the AC wiki doesn't have a summary for it yet, just a pre-release teaser synopsis

dchil279
01-04-2011, 05:25 AM
bump

TheSpectator
01-04-2011, 05:43 AM
Just do what some terrible people did and load it in downward fashion off the net.

Abeonis
01-04-2011, 06:23 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by RH3SUS:
well, yes but it's a nasty precedent. if some comics are canon except one then we're in a huge mess don't ya think?

ubisoft should say something about that IMO. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The only reason the French Graphic novel isn't canon is simply because it throws up circumstances that simply can not fit into the canon laid out by the games. Everything else is canon, it's not a mess of any sort.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by dchil279:
Could someone summarize issue #2 for me because the AC wiki doesn't have a summary for it yet, just a pre-release teaser synopsis </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's because the main editor (such as myself) do not live in Canada or the US, so we do not have access to it.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">ORiginally posted by TheSpectator:
Just do what some terrible people did and load it in downward fashion off the net. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Unfortunately, that is what some non-US based fans must do, and even then it's only #1 that's available so far.

Abeonis
01-04-2011, 06:25 AM
EDIT: My bad, double post. Apologies.

Drakonous505
01-04-2011, 10:55 AM
10 days... When that day comes I'm going to see if it's at the comic shop near me.

dchil279
01-04-2011, 03:00 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TheSpectator:
Just do what some terrible people did and load it in downward fashion off the net. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

could you PM me a link then

Evan52395
01-04-2011, 03:40 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by RzaRecta357:
I still don't believe 16 and Desmond are related.

Some one with super super detail explain to me why they are related?

I mean, if an animus only had two subjects in it....16 and 17...then it would only scan for those.

It scans Desmonds mind and then drops 16 off the screen because the relevant data that was found was Subject 17, when it scanned his brain.

How does this make them related again? Why couldn't 16 just have a different ancestor in Italy? Leaving marks that way? Maybe that's why Viddic couldn't see the vault. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
S16 "died" (escaped) before Vidic was able to find what he wanted and went back to The Farm we assume. That is why he captured Desmond.

ArD117
01-04-2011, 06:48 PM
It's funny because, despite the now normal assumption that it's very close to the lore, I remember reading an interview with the creators saying that it was, in some sense, a "standalone" series. I believe that Ubi came in and decided that it had to be closer to the series, seeing as how Daniel is being connected not only to Subject 16 but also to Desmond and the entire plot as a whole. Therefore, it's safe to say we will see Daniels adventures continue in the games. While we may have already heard him through the Subject 16 signs, it would be great to physically see him in Desmond's world.

LeapofFaith33
01-04-2011, 07:01 PM
I don't Know if anyone asked this but i thought id share before i forget it. The little kid on the first page of issue #2, daniel i think, what he says in russian is (My translation i got) "I want to Households..." just thought id share that.

ArD117
01-04-2011, 07:07 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LeapofFaith33:
I don't Know if anyone asked this but i thought id share before i forget it. The little kid on the first page of issue #2, daniel i think, what he says in russian is (My translation i got) "I want to Households..." just thought id share that. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Which means he's basically saying: "I want to go home."

This is pretty interesting, actually. Was Daniel abandoned, or was something taken from him? Hopefully, this is confirmed in Issue 3.

kriegerdesgottes
01-04-2011, 07:08 PM
ya hochu domoee means I want home, I thought it was weird they didn't put in the verb to "go" so I'm not sure if he's saying he wants to go home or he wants a home. In Russian there is no word for "A", so it leads me to believe he is saying he wants a home.

TheSpectator
01-04-2011, 07:29 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by dchil279:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TheSpectator:
Just do what some terrible people did and load it in downward fashion off the net. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

could you PM me a link then </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
www.google.com (http://www.google.com)

TwentyGlyphs
01-05-2011, 11:23 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by dchil279:
Could someone summarize issue #2 for me because the AC wiki doesn't have a summary for it yet, just a pre-release teaser synopsis </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sure, with the obligatory warning that following are major spoilers for the issue:

The issue starts with a young boy who looks about 5-6 years old walking down a country road (likely in America) wearing just his underwear. An old pickup truck pulls up and asks if he's okay and what his name is. He appears to be bruised, and looks like a much younger Daniel Cross. He responds in Russian, which people here are saying means "I want to go home."

Next we see Daniel waking up in a bedroom with the girl who put him in a car from the end of issue 1, whose name is Hannah. She says they figure he's an Assassin, but they can't find any trace of him being part of their camp. She says he needs to see the leader of their camp, a man named Bellamy.

As they walk outside, we see the Assassin camp consists of some small identical houses in rows outside of a church. As they walk, Hannah explains that Bellamy is the leader of their camp, but that no one ever gets to meet the top leader named the Mentor. No one knows where he is or what he looks like.

Bellamy is eating breakfast at a picnic table when Daniel shows up. He starts to question Daniel about where he got his training and what he does, but Daniel says he's crazy and has no clue what he's talking about. Bellamy asks to see Daniel's arm, which has a tattoo of the Assassin logo on it. Bellamy asks if Daniel thinks it's coincidence that he chose that design, to which Daniel responds that it just sort of felt right. Bellamy thinks Daniel is playing coy, and shows him his own ring with the same Assassin symbol. Daniel is freaked out and starts to get another Nikolai hallucination.

The memory is of Nikolai interrogating someone about where the Templars took the Staff for experimentation. A fellow Assassin asks another one if Nikolai is always so savage, and the guy says that Nikolai was gentler before he lost his child. The prisoner confesses that the Staff is at Tunguska.

Daniel comes back to the present, where he's been speaking Russian and mentioned Tunguska. He tells Bellamy and Hannah that he blacks out sometimes and has these visions. Bellamy realizes how important this may be, and asks Daniel to stay for a day or two so they can figure out who he is and if he's suffering memory loss or something. Daniel says no way and walks away. Two Assassins try to gently grab him, and Daniel suddenly snaps and beats the 2 up before Bellamy pulls his hidden blade and gets Daniel to stop.

Next Hannah brings Daniel some food, and Daniel explains that he wants no part of this and that he feels like he's going crazy. He thinks his medicine will help stop the visions, so Hannah helps him sneak out of the camp and to his apartment. Daniel's medicine is empty and he realizes he threw away his last prescription last issue. Hannah mentions that maybe Daniel should try to let whatever's trying to get out of his head out instead of fighting it. They start talking, and she mentions that she's never killed anyone and works with computers mainly. The upcoming election is very important according to the Mentor, who she says is some kind of strategic super genius whose usually right about these sort of things.

Hannah asks if Daniel can remember anything about his visions, and he says the main thing he remembers is a shape that he draws on a fogged window with his finger - the Royal Staff. Hannah says if the drawing is what she thinks it is, it could be huge. Just then Bellamy bursts into the apartment and is mad at Hannah for defying his authority. He says he just got off the phone with Bill Miles, whose records say a small team was sent to Tunguska in 1908 to find the Staff. Only one person walked away, and this survivor eventually disappeared, probably left Russia, maybe ended up in America. Bellamy thinks Daniel is the one link to the location of the Staff and therefore in danger. He says Daniel needs to tell them what happened to Nikolai Orelov.

This starts a new memory showing Nikolai and 2 Assassins approaching a tower that is a replica of Tesla's Wardenclyffe tower, created by the Templars from his stolen designs. This team has a limited amount of time to retrieve the Staff before Tesla destroys the tower with his electric technology. They infiltrate the tower, and Nikolai finds the Staff. Back in the late 90s as this vision unfolds, Daniel climbs out his window and onto the roof of his apartment. He jumps between 2 buildings, probably displaying free-running skills. He's living out the vision and Bellamy and Hannah are worried he will slip and fall off the roof.

Just as Nikolai reaches out to grab the Staff, which is hooked up to electric lines, you start to see disembodied word balloons with faint, hard-to-read text. But 2 of them clearly say "Adam, I have it," and "Eve." Then you see a vision that shows the outline of a baby, the Apple with Altair's reflection in its surface, a Mayan pyramid, a satellite, an American Civil War battle, a possible Asian statue, etc. There are lines of dialogue here that I mentioned earlier in this thread. At the center of it all is the silhouette of a man's head with the Sun behind him. He appears to be saying, "Come closer, Daniel. So that we may meet properly." Daniel is looking and says, "Is that me?"

Then you see Nikola Tesla about to turn a knob saying, "Rot in hell, Thomas." A giant bolt of electricity comes down from the sky and hits the tower in Tunguska. You see Nikolai Orelov floating, surrounded by white, with the very faint image of 3 people behind him. One is clearly Minerva, one is clearly Juno, and the third is the hardest to see. Could be Jupiter, but it also kinda looks like it could be a woman. Too faint to tell. Then you see a giant explosion that destroys the tower and knocks down all the trees around it. Nikolai is left laying in the center of the destruction barely conscious with his clothes ripped to shreds saying "It is destroyed…"

Back in modern times, Daniel falls on his butt. Hannah asks if he's okay, and he's smiling and says, "It's okay… I saw… everything… I saw the shape of time… I know my purpose… I understand what I have to do… I have to find the Mentor."

Avl521
01-05-2011, 11:41 PM
When does issue 3 come out again?
I can't get it when it cmes out anyways but I'm eager to know what happens.

TheSpectator
01-06-2011, 02:00 AM
jan 16

Drakonous505
01-06-2011, 10:24 AM
January 12 if I'm not mistaken.

nukelukespuke34
01-06-2011, 08:10 PM
I hope they come out with a trade paperback of all 3 issues. I haven't been keeping up with them.

TwentyGlyphs
01-10-2011, 07:41 PM
Well this was supposed to come out on the 12th, but I don't see it on this week's list of shipping comics. And now DC Comics has updated their site to say it's shipping on February 2. We'll have to wait 3 weeks longer to find out…

http://previewsworld.com/publi...sp?t=2&m=1&c=6&s=428 (http://previewsworld.com/public/default.asp?t=2&m=1&c=6&s=428)
http://www.dccomics.com/wildstorm/comics/?cm=16710

kriegerdesgottes
01-10-2011, 07:51 PM
Yeah I saw that and I just today pre-ordered it because I was all excited about picking it up in 2 days.

iNEEDSmeINSIDES
01-11-2011, 07:58 AM
I'm really not sure about Daniel been Subject 16. Abstergo Industries wouldn't still be looking for a relation to someone involved in the Tunguska Incident (as in the email, posted by RzaRecta357) if they already had him.

It is likely that Bill Miles is a relation to Desmond and Bill Miles is William M from Lucy's &Shaun's emails, although it is strange that he does not want to see his lost relation Desmond and shows no concern over his health other than to find the POE. Although this could just be because Desmond ran off.

I'm trying to collate all the unanswered question we have left over from Assassins Creed, Assassins Creed 2, AC Brotherhood, Project Legacy and AC The Fall to see if they get answered in the upcoming games and project. The thread is here http://forums.ubi.com/eve/foru...1069024/m/4941066309 (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/5251069024/m/4941066309) if you would like to add anything I have missed.

TwentyGlyphs
01-11-2011, 02:47 PM
You bring up an interesting point about Abstergo looking for Tunguska survivors, iNEEDSmyINSIDES. Here's the excerpt from the email in AC1:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Tunguska Incident - Now believed to be the direct result of assault by Assassins. Research station destroyed as was artifact. Alternate wave generation devices have been located in storage, but we have insufficient data at the moment to initiate research. The risk of accident is too high. Lineage Discovery and Acquisition Division should attempt to locate descendants of any attack survivors (either Assassins or Brotherhood) in order to continue research. Resurrecting this particular type of technology will aid us greatly with any holdouts following the Satellite's activation. We're putting together a team to push research in this area. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It does raise a question of why would Abstergo still be looking for survivors if they had already had Subject 16 when this email was written. But it also raises the question of why do they now believe it was an Assassin assault? It could be that they've just now learned this data from Subject 16, reliving the memory seen in The Fall #2. And since he's dead, they would need to find more survivors. Perhaps they're looking for people who knew something about the technology more so than people who survived the incident itself, since the Assassins apparently believe only Nikolai survived.

Reading this email made me realize something I hadn't before. This is talking about alternate wave generation devices, and Abstergo is seeking information about this technology. In real life Tesla was a proponent of alternating current, and in the game his technology comes from what he saw in his Piece of Eden. The tower at Tunguska that the Staff was hooked into was based off of designs stolen from Tesla. Tesla then used his electric technology to destroy the tower and (possibly) the Staff. The alternate wave technology probably boosts the powers of the Pieces of Eden, or interacts with them in a special way. This is why the explosion was so huge, and what allowed Nikolai Orelov to see the vision in the Staff when he had no such vision the first time he held it in The Fall #1. An interesting aside as to why Tesla may have been relatively prominent in the AC2 Truth puzzles.

iNEEDSmeINSIDES
01-12-2011, 02:29 AM
I guess they could have evidence that the Assassins were there and normally when Templar schemes don't go to plan you can assume Assassins were involved.

But this would then rule out Daniel been the subject at the beginning of Issue #1.

Or it could be a bit of an oversight.

dchil279
01-15-2011, 07:10 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by iNEEDSmyINSIDES:
I'm really not sure about Daniel been Subject 16. Abstergo Industries wouldn't still be looking for a relation to someone involved in the Tunguska Incident (as in the email, posted by RzaRecta357) if they already had him.

It is likely that Bill Miles is a relation to Desmond and Bill Miles is William M from Lucy's &Shaun's emails, although it is strange that he does not want to see his lost relation Desmond and shows no concern over his health other than to find the POE. Although this could just be because Desmond ran off.

I'm trying to collate all the unanswered question we have left over from Assassins Creed, Assassins Creed 2, AC Brotherhood, Project Legacy and AC The Fall to see if they get answered in the upcoming games and project. The thread is here http://forums.ubi.com/eve/foru...1069024/m/4941066309 (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/5251069024/m/4941066309) if you would like to add anything I have missed. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't know man, he could be anyone.

Johno_efc
01-15-2011, 09:34 AM
Where can you buy this comics in the UK?

julien.cuny
01-15-2011, 12:35 PM
Hello everybody,

Very interesting topic !

I just want to react to few things:

- The comic book is canon, we work in the same building than the game team and we interact with them on a daily basis.
Cameron Stewart and Karl Kerschl (co-writers/artists) works 2 streets away, it's an ideal situation for everybody and that's also explain why you see so many connections.

- We apologize for issue #3 being late, in fact if it's late it's mainly because precisely we've been extra careful of the different tie-ins. When you get a chance to read this final issue, you'll easily understand why... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

- We know it's hard to find the comics especially if you live outside the US. So for your information we're selling and shipping worldwide on www.ubiworkshop.com (http://www.ubiworkshop.com). Issue #3 will be put on sale (as a stand alone) early next week.

Thanks all for your enthusiasm

Julien Cuny,
AC: The Fall producer

RzaRecta357
01-15-2011, 03:50 PM
So it's been a few since I read both issues now as I plan on re-reading them when the third finally comes out.

Im just happy the producer posted in my topic :P

But, Tesla. Is he working WITH the Assassins? Or just against the Templars and Edison by himself?

joaomuas
01-15-2011, 04:51 PM
SPOILERS

At the end of ACB you heard those two guys talking. Then, one says "Who's the expert here?" so I think the expert is Erudito, cause he's a genius. I also think Erudito is Subject 16, Daniel Cross and The Mentor. If he's such a genius, couldn't he disguise himself that way? Couldn't he hack the Abstergo server? Couldn't he know the passwords? It's all tied in.

rob.davies2014
01-15-2011, 04:52 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by julien.cuny:
Hello everybody,

Very interesting topic !

I just want to react to few things:

- The comic book is canon, we work in the same building than the game team and we interact with them on a daily basis.
Cameron Stewart and Karl Kerschl (co-writers/artists) works 2 streets away, it's an ideal situation for everybody and that's also explain why you see so many connections.

- We apologize for issue #3 being late, in fact if it's late it's mainly because precisely we've been extra careful of the different tie-ins. When you get a chance to read this final issue, you'll easily understand why... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

- We know it's hard to find the comics especially if you live outside the US. So for your information we're selling and shipping worldwide on www.ubiworkshop.com (http://www.ubiworkshop.com). Issue #3 will be put on sale (as a stand alone) early next week.

Thanks all for your enthusiasm

Julien Cuny,
AC: The Fall producer </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks for the information. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
On that UbiWorkshop page for Issue #3 it said:

"What doesn't kill you makes you stronger."
Do you think they're implying that Nikolai's survival of the explosion changed him in some way? Maybe it made him immortal. It is suspected that Altair used the Apple to become immortal and it's possible Ezio did the same (we still have a game to go with him; Lost Legacy)
Maybe all these ancient assassins will turn up in the modern day to help Desmond! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Avl521
01-15-2011, 05:01 PM
TWCB never managed to become immortal, since the POEs are made by TWCB, neither Altaïr nor Desmond can become immortal.

People have to stop that idiocy.

rob.davies2014
01-15-2011, 07:56 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Avl521:
TWCB never managed to become immortal, since the POEs are made by TWCB, neither Altaïr nor Desmond can become immortal.

People have to stop that idiocy. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No need to be rude, it was only a thought.
And who's to say if Those Who Came Before were immortal or not?!

Avl521
01-15-2011, 08:09 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by RussellSparrow:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Avl521:
TWCB never managed to become immortal, since the POEs are made by TWCB, neither Altaïr nor Desmond can become immortal.

People have to stop that idiocy. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No need to be rude, it was only a thought.
And who's to say if Those Who Came Before were immortal or not?! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I was not intending to be rude to you, it's just that a lot of people have said that, and it's not possible.

And Juno herself said they weren't immortal, and Minerva seemed to think they were all gone from the world, AND they did die after the war with humans and the first catastrophe.

So there you have it, TWCB confirmed they are not immortal, and they never found the way to be.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">By Juno:
Here is a safe place. Eternal. To store objects. Words. Wisdom. But not life. Almost did we have the means. But time... time erodes us. We can distract him. We can see past him. Feint left when he strikes right. But his reach is so very long. His stamina unending. We cannot evade his grasp. Not forever. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

And now Minerva:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> But now we are dying. And time will work against us. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

There you have the answer. Your question?
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> And who's to say if Those Who Came Before were immortal or not?! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The short answer:
They said it themselves.

Mic_92
01-15-2011, 08:37 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by coryplayspiano:

My personal theory is that Altair is the Mentor and his "soul" is immortal in the same way that Subject 16 is still alive in ACB. He must have ways of communicating with people from wherever it is that his consciousness resides. Or he could just be really old, but no one else seems to have gotten the ability to live longer physically from a Piece of Eden. Altair's last codex entry says he knows his body's elements will soon return to the earth, but what of his consciousness? He says there's no harm in one last look into the apple...

Of course, the Mentor could also be Daniel Cross himself, Subject 16, as seen in ACB.

I've enjoyed the series so far. I'm surprised at how much it's tying into the main story. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually, any Assassin Grand Master is called The Mentor.

*ACB SPOILERS*

In Brotherhood when Ezio becomes the leader he receives the title "Il Mentore" wich means The Mentor.

*SPOILER END*

Al Mualim roughly translates to The Mentor also, so for all we know people probably started calling Altair "Al Mualim" when he became the leader.

SAVMATIC
01-15-2011, 11:45 PM
No they are not physically immortal on the earth plane, but the soul/consciousness remains. We know this is part of the AC world because this is exactly what subject 16 has done, by imprinting his consciousness into the animus. If subject 16 did this, then it is certainly plausible that Altair could have.

rob.davies2014
01-16-2011, 06:07 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Avl521:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by RussellSparrow:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Avl521:
TWCB never managed to become immortal, since the POEs are made by TWCB, neither Altaïr nor Desmond can become immortal.

People have to stop that idiocy. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No need to be rude, it was only a thought.
And who's to say if Those Who Came Before were immortal or not?! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I was not intending to be rude to you, it's just that a lot of people have said that, and it's not possible.

And Juno herself said they weren't immortal, and Minerva seemed to think they were all gone from the world, AND they did die after the war with humans and the first catastrophe.

So there you have it, TWCB confirmed they are not immortal, and they never found the way to be.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">By Juno:
Here is a safe place. Eternal. To store objects. Words. Wisdom. But not life. Almost did we have the means. But time... time erodes us. We can distract him. We can see past him. Feint left when he strikes right. But his reach is so very long. His stamina unending. We cannot evade his grasp. Not forever. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

And now Minerva:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> But now we are dying. And time will work against us. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

There you have the answer. Your question?
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> And who's to say if Those Who Came Before were immortal or not?! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The short answer:
They said it themselves. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I accept. Thank you for such a holistic answer, but do you not think that the last page of the Codex is of any significance?

[/QUOTE] And so I have begun to wonder – might there not be a way to stop – or at least delay - death's embrace? Surely the ones who came before were not so frail and feeble as we. But I have sworn to be done with the artifact. To not gaze into its core. Still: faced as I am with the prospect of my end, what harm is there in one last look... [/QUOTE]
Isn't it possible that allthough they may not be immortal, a few select Assassins extended their life span significantly?

AA--92
01-16-2011, 04:06 PM
http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0047/1052/files/ACFALL3_grande.jpg?1295028637

A sneak peak of the third issue, looks like the place from the truth video in AC2

Mr_Stunner
01-16-2011, 05:00 PM
It got delayd till February 3rd

Avl521
01-16-2011, 05:03 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by RussellSparrow:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Avl521:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by RussellSparrow:
I accept. Thank you for such a holistic answer, but do you not think that the last page of the Codex is of any significance?

[QUOTE] And so I have begun to wonder – might there not be a way to stop – or at least delay - death's embrace? Surely the ones who came before were not so frail and feeble as we. But I have sworn to be done with the artifact. To not gaze into its core. Still: faced as I am with the prospect of my end, what harm is there in one last look... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Isn't it possible that allthough they may not be immortal, a few select Assassins extended their life span significantly? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I understand that yeah that last part of the Codex is indeed very intriguing, but AFAWK, they can't be immortal.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by AA--92:
http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0047/1052/files/ACFALL3_grande.jpg?1295028637

A sneak peak of the third issue, looks like the place from the truth video in AC2 </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hmm it LOOKS EXACTLY like Eden.

robinzx
01-16-2011, 11:04 PM
Just for the sake of being controversial, could that pic be of Abstergo? We never see the outside of the Abstergo building but if Cross is indeed 16 as some believe and he's still alive as some believe..

xxtonypunk96xx
01-17-2011, 12:59 AM
hey guys i'm sorta knew to the forums i've been reading them and i have a few therioes i've been thinking of when jun says the CROSS darkens the path obivous it could be the templars but also maybe it could be daniel CROSS the clue is a little obivous to be daniel but think about it he went to try to lok for the mentor maybe when he find it they came arcoss one of the artifacts or did something some thing sooo big they damaged the path thefore the cross darkens the path another thing that could back this up is the preview for issue#3 it looks ALOT like eden one last thing i wanna add is about the whole the ones who came before imortality etc someone here talked about how maybe subject 16 could have loaded his conciousness/soul into the animus/cyber space if they could do that maybe the ones who came before put their conciousness into the apples i mean look at the facts how could the pieces of eden be sooo powerful that they could show altair maps to the rest of the pieces of eden,and show ezio if ceasre he would escape his holding cell and also how would the ones who came before be able to create a machine that could survive billions of years and yet pratically tell the past,present,and future thats like our civilzation making a portable time machine that fits in the palm of your hand

C_Stewart
01-17-2011, 12:08 PM
Hey there everyone, Cameron Stewart here, co-creator/writer/artist of The Fall. First of all let me say that I'm really happy that this discussion is 6 pages long, this is exactly the kind of speculation and discussion that we had hoped would spring from the series. I'll tell you that some of you have guessed some things correctly, and others are incorrect, but I of course won't tell you who's who. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

As our producer Julien said, unfortunately the last issue has been pushed back until Feb 2, we really needed the extra time to fine-tune a few things in the story and make it a satisfying conclusion. Apologies for the delay, it's totally our fault, but hopefully it's resulted in a stronger final act.

ArD117 said: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> It's funny because, despite the now normal assumption that it's very close to the lore, I remember reading an interview with the creators saying that it was, in some sense, a "standalone" series. I believe that Ubi came in and decided that it had to be closer to the series </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It was always planned as a close companion to the games, as Julien said our studio is only a couple of blocks away from the Ubisoft offices in Montreal, and we had many story meetings with Corey, Jeffrey and others to make sure that everything we did in the comic dovetailed with what has and will occur in the games. Our mention of it being "standalone" was that we wanted the story to be accessible to people who have never played the games, we didn't want to do something so mired in obscure references that it would be incomprehensible to a comics reader who hasn't played AC. Obviously the story is richer and more meaningful if you are familiar with the games already, but it was always planned to be something pitched at both gamer and comic audiences.

I'm glad you guys are enjoying the series so far, Karl, Nadine and I put a lot of work into it and we're big fans of the games, and it's very gratifying to know that you're reading and enjoying so thanks very much! Although I must give a sharp slap on the wrist to TheSpectator for suggesting that people pirate it http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif As far as I'm aware there should be a legal digital version soon.

Thanks again everybody, hope you enjoy issue 3!

Avl521
01-17-2011, 01:06 PM
Lol cool! now we just have to wait until Feb! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

But it's ok, I just wanna know what happens next http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

iNEEDSmeINSIDES
01-17-2011, 02:04 PM
I definitely would like to see you guys work on something else for AC, but with a longer run this time though! Hopefully it will happen.

RzaRecta357
01-17-2011, 05:11 PM
So again I gotta say im super happy to see the creators of the game post in my topic and be so close to us.

I just want to say, from your true fans. If Daniel doesn't make it to the games in some way, and doesn't some how die in the final comic...

We seriously need some more tales! He seems like a really cool character and although we have no idea where the entire universe of the series is going i'd love to see more of him.

I don't know, I love the way you made his face look like his ancestors in the way the game does also! Very cool decision!

Very cool to see it happening from some one other than Desmond too. I LOVE it as much as the games!

RzaRecta357
01-19-2011, 07:42 PM
Bump!

Sorry but I love this topic and I hope people want to talk about the comic more!! Im pumped for the next issue!

kriegerdesgottes
01-19-2011, 07:59 PM
2 weeks to go. It does look awesome.

TheSpectator
01-19-2011, 08:23 PM
Ow my wrist! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/sadeyes.gif

killercartoons
01-19-2011, 08:35 PM
Seems pretty crazy to me, but pretty good!

cgdemon894
01-22-2011, 12:40 AM
Working on a little project that i wanted to put into the fan art section but felt it would be more appropriate for here.
Daniel Cross (http://i.imgur.com/MXXnC.jpg)
Nikolai Orelov (http://i.imgur.com/jPXUI.jpg)

Alpha Ender
01-22-2011, 04:44 AM
@ C-Stewart (or anyone who knows): what is this, and where can I get it?

RzaRecta357
01-22-2011, 11:36 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by AlphaEnder:
@ C-Stewart (or anyone who knows): what is this, and where can I get it? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's a 3 issue comic that follows a Person different than Desmond. Very awesome book that is supposed to tie directly into the games.

So far the comic is amazing and the third issue is due out next month.

Go to a comic shop and pick it up or go to ubiworkshop.com

Mr_Stunner
01-24-2011, 06:22 AM
I haven't figured it out yet why it is subtitled "The Fall"

TwentyGlyphs
01-27-2011, 12:43 PM
Issue #3 is delayed again, this time another week to February 9:

http://www.dccomics.com/wildstorm/comics/?cm=16710

kriegerdesgottes
01-27-2011, 09:44 PM
Are you freaking kidding me!? That really sucks I was really looking forward to picking it up next week.

kriegerdesgottes
02-06-2011, 09:02 PM
They pushed back the fall issue 3 yet again to the 10!!!! X(

iNEEDSmeINSIDES
02-07-2011, 01:10 AM
Website still says 9th. Don't all new comics get released on Wednesdays?

kriegerdesgottes
02-07-2011, 09:21 AM
http://dccomics.com/wildstorm/comics/?cm=16109

yeah actually but this one is saying the 10th and a week ago it said the 9th.

iNEEDSmeINSIDES
02-07-2011, 09:53 AM
That is the direct link for Issue #1 which came out on the 10th (November).
If you look at the date for Issue #3 it still says 9th: http://dccomics.com/wildstorm/comics/?cm=16710

TwentyGlyphs
02-07-2011, 09:54 AM
That says the first issue's release date is November 10, 2010. Still says February 9, 2011 for Issue #3. Comics always ship weekly, so a date won't change from the publisher like that by a day, only by weeks. It's also listed on this week's list of shipping comics for the 9th, which is as close to a sure thing as you get in the comics world:

http://previewsworld.com/publi...sp?t=2&m=1&c=6&s=428 (http://previewsworld.com/public/default.asp?t=2&m=1&c=6&s=428)

Now the weather cooperating this week is another story entirely.

iNEEDSmeINSIDES
02-07-2011, 10:09 AM
Yup, so we only have a couple more days wait. Although I'll only be picking it up on Friday.

kriegerdesgottes
02-07-2011, 10:33 AM
My bad, you guys are totally right, I am ******ed.The sad part is I looked at that like 3 times.