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View Full Version : Did Kamikaze aircraft carry weapons and ammo?



grobber
08-13-2004, 11:21 AM
Saw a special on them last night. It mentioned that some of the planes carried explosives but I am guessing no since the plane is going to be destroyed would they remove the guns/cannons.

With the Kamikaze waypoint that I have read about in PF will planes going on a Kamikaze attack basically be unarmed targets for the Allies relying only on escorts?

If anyone know it would be great to find out (funny how the mind wanders on a Friday.

grobber
08-13-2004, 11:21 AM
Saw a special on them last night. It mentioned that some of the planes carried explosives but I am guessing no since the plane is going to be destroyed would they remove the guns/cannons.

With the Kamikaze waypoint that I have read about in PF will planes going on a Kamikaze attack basically be unarmed targets for the Allies relying only on escorts?

If anyone know it would be great to find out (funny how the mind wanders on a Friday.

pfffft
08-13-2004, 12:17 PM
From what I've read, no. The a/c itself was a missile with some being packed with extra explosives. They weren't to do anything else than ram into a target. I believe when they had the resources they even had escorts.

Jason Bourne
08-13-2004, 12:20 PM
IIRC, they would often put a bomb under it, and rig it for impact, but make it so it didnt need to be dropped to be armed.

P-DEX
08-13-2004, 12:41 PM
It's been a while but if I remember correctly, The kamikazes had explosives or bombs attached (armor piercing most of the time but any type would do as long as it was a big one).

They flew with no air-to-air armament (as stated earlier). They could get escorts if they were lucky. Also, quite a few only had enough petrol to make it to the target area...no return flight for these guys. But it was practical for the times. Since the Japanese were running out of aviation fuel at an alarming rate why top a plane off with petrol that wasn't coming back?

Jason Bourne
08-13-2004, 01:20 PM
Actually, didnt they load them fully with fuel so that when they hit the ships, there would be plenty of combustibles to burn

Yellonet
08-13-2004, 02:02 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jason Bourne:
Actually, didnt they load them fully with fuel so that when they hit the ships, there would be plenty of combustibles to burn<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I don't think so, they wouldn't have wasted it on a kamikaze plane as there were a serious fuel shortange in the later stages of the war. At least for the japanese.

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VF-17_Jolly
08-13-2004, 03:48 PM
I saw a program on the Kamikaze it contained interveiws with surviving pilots who returned from missions after not finding the fleet...

"If you do not find the americans return to base there is no honour in dying for nothing"

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Waldo.Pepper
08-13-2004, 09:31 PM
If they had not enough fuel to return explain surviving Kamikaze pilots who failed to find their target (weather etc etc )and returned?
They must have had enough fuel to return, because some pilots did return. QED

Also I think it was posted to these forums a whiloe ago of a gun from a Zero (Kamikaze) that was lodged in the AAA of a ship which it had crashed into. Therefore, in that instance and others they were armed with guns. (however not necc. ammo.)

Bunker Hill
08-13-2004, 10:52 PM
My uncle Lt. Earl W. Langston was shot down in his F4U-1D near Okinawa while flying CAP over the area. He dove in alone onto two Vals who were being escorted by a Zeke. The Zeke broke straight up, and he instinctively pulled up as well to recover from the dive. The Zeke put a burst into his belly just as he was pulling over the top into the inverted. He bailed, and was also shot at while hanging in his chute on the way down.

I'm not sure if the escort fighters were instructed to destroy themselves as well once the Vals did their thing, but their guns were armed nonetheless.

MK2aw
08-13-2004, 10:55 PM
I just finshed reading a few books on Kamakaze's.

Nagatsuka's "I was a kamakaze" was one of the them, also the "devine wind".

the answer is all the above:

Some did not have guns, most did.
some had bombs strapped to the bellies, most didn't
some were packed with fuel , some were not etc. etc.

it came in all shapes and sizes.

MK2aw

F19_Olli72
08-14-2004, 02:29 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Waldo.Pepper:
If they had not enough fuel to return explain surviving Kamikaze pilots who failed to find their target (weather etc etc )and returned?
They must have had enough fuel to return, because some pilots did return. QED
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
: they would hardly fly all the way to the target and turn back from there would they? 'Enough fuel' simply means they mustve turned back before reaching the 'point of no return' (consumed 50% of the fuel from base).

Actually i checked Nagatsukas book (recommended). He writes that on his mission the target was thought to be 500 km away, they had fuel for 550 km (the Ki-27 he flew has range for 625 km). So obviously in his case they did turn back before reaching the point of no return. (Though some planes in his group ignored the order to turn back and kept going).

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Tater-SW-
08-14-2004, 01:19 PM
General George Kenney (head of 5th AF, and later FEAF) had interesting comments about the first Kamikazes they saw at Leyte (from General Kenney Reports).

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>...One of the baby carriers, the Sangamon, was hit by a suicide plane carrying a 500-pound bomb. The ship was damaged considerably but remained on the job in spite of it. A curious thing about those kamikaze attacks was that they were all made with small bombs, generally around 250-pound size, with a few 500-pounders. You would have thought, if they were going to lose the pilot and the airplane anyhow, that they would have carried a 2000-pound load, or at least a 1000-pounder and be assured of doing some real damage. It was just another bit of Jap psychology that we couldn't figure out.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

tater

p1ngu666
08-14-2004, 02:04 PM
ya some did, some didnt. and i some did a normal dive bomb, released the bomb, BUT carried on into ship.
and ud want fuel for the fire. if u crash into a ship on emputy tanks, theres ur oil to burn, which isnt much.

i hope we get a couple of kamaikaze model planes for coops.

plus i dont think zero could carry big bombs

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MK2aw
08-14-2004, 03:44 PM
It really woudl be great if kamakaze's are modeled in the game (even if only AI).

Well imagine campaigning as a zero pilot and your numbers up and they tell yuo to kamakaze? (your discretion to ignore the order as Saburo Sakai did).

man that would be historically very cool if it was in the game.

MK2aw

grobber
08-17-2004, 10:48 AM
I thought Kamikaze waypoints were being modeled in PF

michapma
08-17-2004, 01:37 PM
Are you sure that Sakai ignored that order? That's not what I remember reading in "Samurai!"

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KIMURA
08-17-2004, 02:22 PM
Hi michapma

Sakai "ignored" that order in that way, that he said it was impossible to keep in position with the other a/c's which belonged to that Kamikaze section. He said as soon as they approached the carrier fighter protection a further keep position with the B5N was impossible. He meant to fly straight and become shot down was rather a question of stupitiy than of Samurai codex of obedience, so he decided to fight.

IIRC Sakai had 2 wingmen, Muto in the 2nd section also 2 wingmen, the rest were 5-7 B5N(not sure of the a/c type). Muto lost his 2 wingmen, he blaimed himself for that, Sakai brought both wingmen safely home, late in the evening. Of those B5N which attacked the US Force only one returned to base after the release of the torp. All others were quickly shot down by the sheer number on F6F.

Kimura