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Rozzer
05-03-2005, 12:44 PM
I've flown a few missions in the RAAF campaign in the Beaufighter and I'm totally baffled as to the purpose of my crewman. I thought he was a rear gunner but he never seems to fire a shot and doesn't have a weapon as far as I can see.
Perhaps he's a navigator - but why is he facing backwards?
Also it doesn't seem to be possible to swap places with him unlike in other multicrewed aircraft.
At least he does bail out when instructed.
Can anybody solve this mystery/

Rozzer
05-03-2005, 12:44 PM
I've flown a few missions in the RAAF campaign in the Beaufighter and I'm totally baffled as to the purpose of my crewman. I thought he was a rear gunner but he never seems to fire a shot and doesn't have a weapon as far as I can see.
Perhaps he's a navigator - but why is he facing backwards?
Also it doesn't seem to be possible to swap places with him unlike in other multicrewed aircraft.
At least he does bail out when instructed.
Can anybody solve this mystery/

Sturmvogel66
05-03-2005, 12:53 PM
He's basically an observer. Which means, he should, in affect, tell you when something is on your six, but hey, he sure doesn't haha. I don't see much of a purpose for him, and whatever he did do in real life, is not modelled in PF.

fordfan25
05-03-2005, 12:55 PM
yea i noticed that as well.

p1ngu666
05-03-2005, 01:08 PM
navigate, observe, look after the cannons, fire his .303 defensisvly....

i hope we get full english beu

should have armoured glass (current one doesnt http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif (probably in error)
283 rounds per cannon instead of 120 (wrong again)
a rear gun (aussie ones did have some of theres fitted with a 303 detatchable gun)
probably a smidge faster, and or better altitude performance.
and, i would hope, being able to hop to the rear cockpit

ElAurens
05-03-2005, 01:41 PM
I believe only the very late Beaufighters had a rear defensive gun standard, but there may have been field mods as well.

The rear seater also had the duty of radar operator on models so equipped.

It would be nice if he would just say "Check six!!" when someone was on your tail.

raisen
05-03-2005, 03:29 PM
One of the least popular jobs where the victim was still aircrew..... Reputedly the cordite fumes back around the breeches of the cannon were fierce. One of the back seats jobs being to manhandle in a manouvering plane expended 20mm drum magazines clear of the guns, and fit further ammo drums in their place. Whether later aircraft had belt feed I'm unsure.

... even so ferocious armament and no mistake....

Raisen

WTE_Target
05-03-2005, 06:43 PM
Actually the Australian Beaufighter also had a gun mounted to the rear as the japanese threat of attack lessened the aircrew began stripping airfield defences to arm the rear crew.

They used a variety or light mgs mounted by the fitters.With no sembelance of uniformality,the reo was just happy to have something to shoot back with and straff ground targets with!

VW-IceFire
05-03-2005, 07:26 PM
We should at least try and get the gun counts fixed.

Were Aussie Beaufighters any different in ammo counts?

3.JG51_BigBear
05-03-2005, 09:27 PM
I'd take a rear cockpit view sans machine gun just to check things out back there. When PF first came out I found that if I had enough warning it wasn't terribly difficult to outrun zeros and kis with the beau. Most times I didn't have anyone to warn me and with the cockpit view being so bad its just too hard to stay alive. Its an important aircraft to have people flying since its one of only two theatre approriate flyables that can carry a torpedo.

p1ngu666
05-03-2005, 09:43 PM
ice, they may have had 200 rounds
i think its 200, 240,283
so at minium, we are 80 rounds short

p1ngu666
05-03-2005, 09:45 PM
http://premium1.uploadit.org/pingu666//bearear1.jpg

http://premium1.uploadit.org/pingu666//bearear2.jpg

the beufighter at hendon, well one of em http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

HotelBushranger
05-04-2005, 04:04 AM
The Australian Beaus were Mk 6's, IIRC. I watched a doco a coupla weeks ago, and one of the things I remembered was that alll the Aussie Beaus in the Pacific Theatre had 6 .303 guns fitted, not the 4 .50 cals we have now. Another thing is that the veteran that was interviewed said that the Beau marks only went up to 17 or some such, but it was definitely below Mk 21, which is we have. I wonder why Oleg put this version in, instead of the most commonly used type? Also, they were able to carry bombs and rockets at the same time, but that's not as important

whiteladder
05-04-2005, 04:50 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> The Australian Beaus were Mk 6's, IIRC. I watched a doco a coupla weeks ago, and one of the things I remembered was that alll the Aussie Beaus in the Pacific Theatre had 6 .303 guns fitted, not the 4 .50 cals we have now. Another thing is that the veteran that was interviewed said that the Beau marks only went up to 17 or some such, but it was definitely below Mk 21, which is we have. I wonder why Oleg put this version in, instead of the most commonly used type? Also, they were able to carry bombs and rockets at the same time, but that's not as important </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The RAAF used a number of different marks of Beaufighters during the war in the pacific.
They were supply with the following:


72 MkIc
125 MkVIc
62 MkX
20 MkXIc
364 Mk21

All apart from the MK21 were supplied from Britain.

The Mk21 was built in Australia by the Department of Aircraft Production (DAP) and was numerically the most important type, so I guess that is why it is in game. It was a direct decendant of the Mk X.

It was split into "early" and late production, the early having .303 guns in the wings.

As far as I can tell from about the 27 airframe onwards the Mk21 had 0.5" gun in the wings. Also it did have provision for a rear gun, from A8-27 onwards the rear cupola was of Austrialian design with space for a gun.

If in fact they were supplied to the squadrons( No`s 22,30,31,92 and 92 Squadrons) with guns or they were removed is another matter.

I could be argued that it shouldn`t have a rear gun because operationally there is little evidence it was carried very often.

But the Mk21 never carried a torpedo, which we have in game so work that one out!

mark

HotelBushranger
05-04-2005, 06:07 AM
Right you are! Aren't exactly an expert in the field myself, so I'll trust you http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

But I know for sure 6's were used in support of the Kokoda Campaign, Milne Bay and most important Coral Sea battles.

So work that one out! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

JG53Frankyboy
05-04-2005, 06:20 AM
sure, a MkVI would have been the better variant for missionbuilding in the pacific and over europe...............

whiteladder
05-04-2005, 07:06 AM
Apparently the team that did the Beau model also submitted a MK21 with a rear gun, but this wasn`t included in the release.

whiteladder
05-04-2005, 07:10 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">sure, a MkVI would have been the better variant for missionbuilding in the pacific and over europe............... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


and could carry a torpedo so no problems there!

3.JG51_BigBear
05-04-2005, 08:30 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by whiteladder:
Apparently the team that did the Beau model also submitted a MK21 with a rear gun, but this wasn`t included in the release. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If a rear cockpit/gun/whatever was created, could it be that it needed reworking like the cockpit for the A-20 and we may stick get a rear position for the plane?

TgD Thunderbolt56
05-04-2005, 08:51 AM
He was there to pass the beer from the back seat. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

jagdmailer
05-04-2005, 09:06 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by whiteladder:
Apparently the team that did the Beau model also submitted a MK21 with a rear gun, but this wasn`t included in the release. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

There was at least 3 or perhaps even 4 variants done. However, with Luthier's project management skills, vision & wherewithal (or lack thereof), only one made it, perhaps not the best variant either - situation indicative of the whole PF project as released overall and its current situation 6+ months after release.

It appears that PF may be somewhat partially salvaged with 4.0 or 4.1.....I hope for the ones who onle have PF.

Having said that, FB/AEP/PF is a great product, which will only be enhanced by 4.0/4.1. Still missing several favorites (Hs 123, Do 17Z-2, Do 217, Me 210/410, flyable Hs 129) (missing all loads for Bf 109F, some erronous loadouts here and there, Bf 109G-6/AS should be Bf 109G-14/AS....) but IMHO, still best package that was ever made.

Jagd

p1ngu666
05-04-2005, 09:08 AM
also found out in coop
the gryo level thingy that shows your angle etc, the 2 lines dont show up (even with lit panel) and u can just about see them on zoom view...
so u cant really fly on instruments http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

ploughman
05-04-2005, 12:07 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Having said that, FB/AEP/PF is a great product, which will only be enhanced by 4.0/4.1. Still missing several favorites (Hs 123, Do 17Z-2, Do 217, Me 210/410, flyable Hs 129) (missing all loads for Bf 109F, some erronous loadouts here and there, Bf 109G-6/AS should be Bf 109G-14/AS....) but IMHO, still best package that was ever made. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Spit XIV, 25 lb boosted Spit IX, Spit Vc, Tempest, Typhoon, Mosquito, Mustang Mk III, Swordfish...blah, de, blah de, blah. The Luftwaffles need something to aim at.

Hopefully, the new patch will redress the balance in the force(s).

jagdmailer
05-04-2005, 12:30 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Spit XIV, 25 lb boosted Spit IX, Spit Vc, Tempest, Typhoon, Mosquito, Mustang Mk III, Swordfish...blah, de, blah de, blah. The Luftwaffles need something to aim at.

Hopefully, the new patch will redress the balance in the force(s). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, I think this is being addressed. I need more targets.

Coming to think of it, I myself long for AI A-20C & A-20K which were submitted to Mr. Maddox in late February I believe. Some Brit Beaus for the BoE Normandy map would also be a great immersion improvement.

Jagd

p1ngu666
05-04-2005, 07:04 PM
beufighter vs lw is one sided really, beu does really well vs Ijn IJA because its abit faster down low, apart from ki84...

these planes are fairly popular too, b25, a20, beu, shame theres so many issues with them

x6BL_Brando
05-05-2005, 02:11 AM
Little do I know about the historical accuracy of what I'm flying .....and I don't really have the time or the patience to search around. I'm just in the "Strap on the 'chute....hello Hyperlobby....what's the mission?" bracket http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

In that vein, I'd like to see the Beau have some kind of an active rear seat, whatever model it might be, even if it was only as a view-point. It would be quite boring as a live position I guess, not to mention downright terrifying at times http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif and it's debatable how effective a single .303 would be for defense.

But in any kind of realistic server without externals this beautiful bird has quite a few feathers missing http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif P1ng's comment on the gauge is spot-on. It's a serious lapse in a plane that had such a large role as a nightfighter, not to be able to read one of the most vital gauges! I hope it gets finished one day.(or night!)

As an afterthought - I expect someone will pop up and wag a finger to tell me that the 21 never flew night missions or something, but that's the point of the topic, ain't it? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

VW-IceFire
05-05-2005, 07:15 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by jagdmailer:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by whiteladder:
Apparently the team that did the Beau model also submitted a MK21 with a rear gun, but this wasn`t included in the release. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

There was at least 3 or perhaps even 4 variants done. However, with Luthier's project management skills, vision & wherewithal (or lack thereof), only one made it, perhaps not the best variant either - situation indicative of the whole PF project as released overall and its current situation 6+ months after release.

It appears that PF may be somewhat partially salvaged with 4.0 or 4.1.....I hope for the ones who onle have PF.

Having said that, FB/AEP/PF is a great product, which will only be enhanced by 4.0/4.1. Still missing several favorites (Hs 123, Do 17Z-2, Do 217, Me 210/410, flyable Hs 129) (missing all loads for Bf 109F, some erronous loadouts here and there, Bf 109G-6/AS should be Bf 109G-14/AS....) but IMHO, still best package that was ever made.

Jagd </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
For sure...

We've got maps without planes and planes without maps. Its very oddly setup this game.