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View Full Version : Enable Wonder Woman Cockpit and Generic Bomb Sight for AI bombers



AKA_TAGERT
01-13-2006, 11:30 AM
Hey it has been a week since the last request.

No need to explain why this is needed; by now even a smack-tard would understand! But for the fnebs..

So we can use AI bombers without having to enable externals.

To date, I have not seen one good reason not to do this. But, if you feel you have one, please give us your point of view. In that I€m sure that what ever you come up with I will be able to show you that the good far outweighs your bad.

AKA_TAGERT
01-13-2006, 11:30 AM
Hey it has been a week since the last request.

No need to explain why this is needed; by now even a smack-tard would understand! But for the fnebs..

So we can use AI bombers without having to enable externals.

To date, I have not seen one good reason not to do this. But, if you feel you have one, please give us your point of view. In that I€m sure that what ever you come up with I will be able to show you that the good far outweighs your bad.

AustinPowers_
01-13-2006, 11:38 AM
B-29s + kamikazee bomb dive = http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

AKA_TAGERT
01-13-2006, 11:45 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by AustinPowers_:
B-29s + kamikazee bomb dive = http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Which has nothing to do with the enabling of the Wonder Woman view in that they can do that now from externals.

Nice try though, gold star for effort!

NEXT!

p1ngu666
01-13-2006, 11:45 AM
that would give us effective bombers, CANT be having that now.

AustinPowers_
01-13-2006, 11:51 AM
hmmmmmm ok.
I dont really care about the subject, just humoring Tagert, and I know P1ngu has a soft spot for bombers http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Got a curve ball for you.

Nein! This would give bomber pilots unrealistic visability while the Focke Wulfs have to stand on their tip toes to see over the bar.

AustinPowers_
01-13-2006, 11:54 AM
Wonder woman is unrealistic.

She has fake boobs be sure. Not that I am complaining.

AustinPowers_
01-13-2006, 11:55 AM
Tracer fire causes lag.... Oleg agrees http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

AKA_TAGERT
01-13-2006, 12:01 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by AustinPowers_:
hmmmmmm ok. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Your welcome! Glad I could learn yah!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by AustinPowers_:
I dont really care about the subject, just humoring Tagert, and I know P1ngu has a soft spot for bombers http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Roger, trolling, I understand

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by AustinPowers_:
Got a curve ball for you.

Nein! This would give bomber pilots unrealistic visability while the Focke Wulfs have to stand on their tip toes to see over the bar. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Nope! In light of the FACT that we would NOT be able to man the gun positions having the WW view enabled for bombers would *simulate* the FACT that you have a crew that can see in all directions.. thus your a one man team.

Again, nice try, gold star for effort!

NEXT!

p1ngu666
01-13-2006, 12:02 PM
cmon megile, only another 11,447 posts and your equal to me http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

wonder woman view would be realisitic as it means u could sim seeing from every crew member, at the same time. bomber pilots already have todo the job of 7 men, so that would make it easier...

but they against making it easy for bomber pilots http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

AKA_TAGERT
01-13-2006, 12:02 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by AustinPowers_:
Wonder woman is unrealistic. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Simulation is unrealistic.

Again, nice try, gold star for effort!

NEXT!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by AustinPowers_:
She has fake boobs be sure. Not that I am complaining. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Nope, o-natural, be sure.

AKA_TAGERT
01-13-2006, 12:03 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by AustinPowers_:
Tracer fire causes lag.... Oleg agrees http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Again, nice try, gold star for effort, but that is OT and has nothing to do with the topci at hand

NEXT!

p1ngu666
01-13-2006, 12:04 PM
**** tag, u was writing at the same time.

be a bonus for fighter jocks in there hero planes tho... human plane ai gunners, are truely awful!

if human controls guns, then they can be effective...

waffen-79
01-13-2006, 12:06 PM
DITTO!

man, I only want to fly the STORCH or C-47 or even the JU-52 and see how many chaps want to shoot me down http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif

waffen-79
01-13-2006, 12:07 PM
I mean think 'bout it:

As a final close to the fb+pf series, enable the WW view for the heavier bombers and transport planes

what an end!

Tater-SW-
01-13-2006, 12:08 PM
Great idea. Go further though. Don't allow wonderwoman view (which would require a cockpit off server setting) but simply make a cockpit for them that is invisible (so "cockpits always on" servers could use them).

Unlike fighters, bombers have crews that call out contacts, copilots, etc. No cockpit for bombers isn't the same crutch it is for fighters. This would be sooo easy, and add so much online.

It is too bad they never adopted the idea that multicrewed aircraft really only need the pilot and bombadier positions modeled, the rest can be AI. For the few bombers we got, we could have had many more with the same expenditure of time...

We got 5 multiengine bombers. Assume that the whole rest of the plane other than cockpit/bombadier = pilot/bombadier in terms of work. We could have 5 more bombers. Add in the rear seats as single pilot cockpits in workload and we get 6 more (not counting variants) such planes. So Pe-2/3, Ki-45, Ki-30, maybe Bf-210 or 410, or actually any fighter at all. You get the idea.

tater

AKA_TAGERT
01-13-2006, 12:10 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by p1ngu666:
**** tag, u was writing at the same time.

be a bonus for fighter jocks in there hero planes tho... human plane ai gunners, are truely awful!

if human controls guns, then they can be effective... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Yup, only a smack-tard would have issues with this request imho.

AKA_TAGERT
01-13-2006, 12:13 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Tater-SW-:
Great idea. Go further though. Don't allow wonderwoman view (which would require a cockpit off server setting) but simply make a cockpit for them that is invisible (so "cockpits always on" servers could use them). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Good point! That is what I ment, but your right, I didnt potn that out. By enable I mean make the WW view the default cockpit for all AI bombers.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Tater-SW-:
Unlike fighters, bombers have crews that call out contacts, copilots, etc. No cockpit for bombers isn't the same crutch it is for fighters. This would be sooo easy, and add so much online. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Agreed 100%

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Tater-SW-:
It is too bad they never adopted the idea that multicrewed aircraft really only need the pilot and bombadier positions modeled, the rest can be AI. For the few bombers we got, we could have had many more with the same expenditure of time...

We got 5 multiengine bombers. Assume that the whole rest of the plane other than cockpit/bombadier = pilot/bombadier in terms of work. We could have 5 more bombers. Add in the rear seats as single pilot cockpits in workload and we get 6 more (not counting variants) such planes. So Pe-2/3, Ki-45, Ki-30, maybe Bf-210 or 410, or actually any fighter at all. You get the idea.

tater </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Yup!

A little OT, but a real cool option would be to enable externals for JUST YOUR PLANE while the wheels are on the ground.. Would almost make up for the spawn ram kills in the game now.

Low_Flyer_MkII
01-13-2006, 12:13 PM
Because you'd be giving Lufty cr@p bombers the same advantage as the Norden bombsight on the B-17. Nuff said? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

SeaFireLIV
01-13-2006, 12:15 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by AKA_TAGERT:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by AustinPowers_:
Wonder woman is unrealistic. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Simulation is unrealistic.

Again, nice try, gold star for effort!

NEXT!

Nope, o-natural, be sure. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I see. The unrealistic approach is a good one, IF you think IL2 is unrealistic. I`ve looked at very many combat sims and IL2 is the most realistic so far. So I disagree with your `unrealistic` answer.

However, since `IL2 is an Unrealistic sim` is going to be your `catch-all` for any one who disagrees with you, I won`t even bother trying.

All I`ll say is I disagree heartily with your idea.

waffen-79
01-13-2006, 12:16 PM
@Tater: yes that'll do, but I think it's easier just enabling WW view, I mean I'm a programer and I see that it's just a lines of codes away.

I'm going LOCO here, but remember the old days of CFS? and how no cockpit planes shared the cessna cockpit??

how about that Tater idea of a generic standard cockpit

p1ngu666
01-13-2006, 12:32 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Low_Flyer_MkII:
Because you'd be giving Lufty cr@p bombers the same advantage as the Norden bombsight on the B-17. Nuff said? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

all bombers ingame have basicaly the same bombsite, but use different units. tb3 has its own bombsite tho.

annoyingly for bomber pilots, the payload of current bombers is fairly light, b25 3000lbs (max), where a p38 can take 2000lbs, and 10 rockets, a more deadly cargo.
corsiar, 3000lbs and 8 rockets.., or 4000lbs of bombs

betty carries 800kg, rather megre but thats how it was, japanease planes are relativly light on bomb loads

a20 only carries 2000lbs

tb3 is very slow, and often very weak, heavy load tho, ineffective turrets too

he111, good loads, but slow, poor defensive guns.

stuka, slow, poor guns on a human one (but not ai)

sbd, slooooooow

val, slow, light load too

AKA_TAGERT
01-13-2006, 12:37 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Low_Flyer_MkII:
Because you'd be giving Lufty cr@p bombers the same advantage as the Norden bombsight on the B-17. Nuff said? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>You dont fly bombers very often do you?

Low_Flyer_MkII
01-13-2006, 12:39 PM
Didn't even need a rod for that one.... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y231/Low_Flyer/Gotcha.jpg

AustinPowers_
01-13-2006, 12:42 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by p1ngu666:
cmon megile, only another 11,447 posts and your equal to me http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

hmmm I need to power post.

Xiolablu3
01-13-2006, 12:45 PM
This is a great idea, servers dont HAVE to use the bombers and I suspect the full real ones wouldnt anyway.

However some servers would love to have this option, at present we have to fly the AI bombers from outside and its very tricky.

AKA_TAGERT
01-13-2006, 01:01 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:
I see. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Disagree 100%

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:
The unrealistic approach is a good one, IF you think IL2 is unrealistic. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>See, you dont see, point you missed is simulation by it's very nature is not real, thus unrealistic. With that said things are done ON PURPOSE (not bugs) to level the playing field and to account for the fact that the simulation is not real. Or did you honesty belive you could jump into a real WWII airplane and press one button and be on your way?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:
I`ve looked at very many combat sims and IL2 is the most realistic so far. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>As have I, I have been playing ,making mods for and testing flight sims since 1991. And I agree IL2 is the best so far.. but far from real

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:
So I disagree with your `unrealistic` answer. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>So

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:
However, since `IL2 is an Unrealistic sim` is going to be your `catch-all` for any one who disagrees with you, </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Well, dont blame me for you miss-undertanding what was being said and just assuming what was being said instead of simply asking, i.e. your bad not mine.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:
I won`t even bother trying. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Promise?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:
All I`ll say is I disagree heartily with your idea. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>So, in light of the fact you dindt understand it at all.. your statment means very little

AKA_TAGERT
01-13-2006, 01:02 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
This is a great idea, servers dont HAVE to use the bombers and I suspect the full real ones wouldnt anyway.

However some servers would love to have this option, at present we have to fly the AI bombers from outside and its very tricky. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Yup! The HISTORIC server uses them alot.. and it is alot of fun.. would be better if we didnt have to use externals

SlickStick
01-13-2006, 02:50 PM
Just some thoughts:

I would suspect that there is no way to give pit-off for some planes and pit-on for others in the code, without re-modeling some type of "invisible" cockpits for the bombers you plan to have a crosshair on the screen for, while fighters have pits on or additional coding.

Also, as it was never 1C's intention that people fly AI online, I don't see them going out of their way to enable this feature. Mere speculation on my part, but looking at 1C's future sim being BoB, maybe for that game they would do this.

AKA_TAGERT
01-13-2006, 03:38 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SlickStick:
Just some thoughts:

I would suspect that there is no way to give pit-off for some planes and pit-on for others in the code, without re-modeling some type of "invisible" cockpits for the bombers you plan to have a crosshair on the screen for, while fighters have pits on or additional coding. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Roger, as Tater-SW noted, dont enable it as I said, just make it the default cockpit. Simple

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SlickStick:
Also, as it was never 1C's intention that people fly AI online, I don't see them going out of their way to enable this feature. Mere speculation on my part, but looking at 1C's future sim being BoB, maybe for that game they would do this. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>There are alot of un-doc features.. the flying of AI planes is just ONE of them, as for not seeing 1C doing things.. They have done alot of things that nobody expected, thus does not hurt to ask imho.

hobnail
01-13-2006, 03:55 PM
I was typing a sane, reasoned response to this thread when I sneezed on the screen and realised the resulting splatter was more to the intellectual level in here....

guzundheit

AKA_TAGERT
01-13-2006, 05:41 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Hobnail:
I was typing a sane, reasoned response to this thread when I sneezed on the screen and realised the resulting splatter was more to the intellectual level in here....

guzundheit </div></BLOCKQUOTE>WOW! Snott humor.. man I dont think I have heard a good snott joke since 5th grade!

Nice try, gold star for effort!

NEXT!

hobnail
01-13-2006, 06:09 PM
Has two years past that quickly?

You bore me, get some new shtick fast.

SlickStick
01-13-2006, 06:13 PM
Copy that on the undocumented stuff that makes it's way into the game, as well as lots of extras that have come our way.

I'm all for new features. I just think that being able to fly a Wonder Woman bomber on a Full server with no externals on is kind of an oxymoron, no?

Granted, both sides would be able to use AI bombers and take advantage of the free look-through-your-plane view, but why turn off externals then? Just to stop the fighters from using them?

I've found that AI bombers are pretty accurate from externals. As in the AI fighters, you just have to find a spot on the outside of the plane to aim by. Just rambling though, don't mind me.

ImpStarDuece
01-13-2006, 06:17 PM
No.

Not for me.

Give me cockpits to fly in or nothing at all.

The aim of this 'simulation' is to 'simulate', in terms as close as possible to reality, the experiance of flying a WW2 fighter, bomber, rocket plane or (in my case) what appears to be a brightly coloured target drone covered in flashing, neon "Shoot Me" signs.

How then, can you simulate the experiance of flying or crewing a WW2 bomber without any of the visual and/or physical restrictions imposed by the bombers actual design and structure? And don't go on about how this game is a poor substitute for reality. None of us get to don full leathers and flying suit or have to put up with any of the physical hardships of flight in the 1940's.

Frankly, until the next game comes along and the next step up in 'realism' arrives, IL2 is as close as most of us will come to to experiance of flight in a WW2 airplane.

What I want is to recreate, to the best possible degree within my current limitations, be they physical, technological or otherwise, the experience of WW2 air combat. I want that suspension of disbelief that makes simulations so enjoyable for me. "Wonder woman" view just kills that sense of being there worse than any other aspect of the game, 'realistic' or otherwise.

AKA_TAGERT
01-13-2006, 06:23 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Hobnail:
Has two years past that quickly? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>You would know best.. than again, in light of that weak 5th grade humor.. But maybe you don€t know best? I know, run and ask your mom, I€m sure she can tell you what grade your in.. maybe you flunked two years ago and are only in the 6th grade and not the 7th? Would be my guess in light of your weak attempt at humor.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Hobnail:
You bore me, get some new shtick fast. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Well, you not all to blame, kids these days, they have that sound byte mentality.. me.. me.. me.. entertain me all the time.. no imagination no lights on.. nobody home. The latch key kids of your generation all seem to have this inability to focus on anything for more than a min or two.. and thus get bored so quickly

AKA_TAGERT
01-13-2006, 06:28 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SlickStick:
Copy that on the undocumented stuff that makes it's way into the game, as well as lots of extras that have come our way. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Roger!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SlickStick:
I'm all for new features. I just think that being able to fly a Wonder Woman bomber on a Full server with no externals on is kind of an oxymoron, no? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>No.. unless you think it is normal for grown men to sit in a room playing a game pretending to be aces. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SlickStick:
Granted, both sides would be able to use AI bombers and take advantage of the free look-through-your-plane view, but why turn off externals then? Just to stop the fighters from using them? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Basiclly.. but keep in mind, simulation! Not Real! With that said ALL KINDS OF THINGS ARE DONE ON PURPOSE (ie not bugs) to make up for the fact that it is a simulation with you sitting in your room with nothing more than a keyboard and a joystick.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SlickStick:
I've found that AI bombers are pretty accurate from externals. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>At low alt they are.. the higher you go the harder it gets from externals.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SlickStick:
As in the AI fighters, you just have to find a spot on the outside of the plane to aim by. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Roger, but not talking fighters.. just AI bombers. It would not be fair at all to have AI fighers in the same room with normal fighters where the AI fighers have the WW view for a normal cockpit and the others dont.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SlickStick:
Just rambling though, don't mind me. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Consider yourself never minded.

Low_Flyer_MkII
01-13-2006, 06:28 PM
that's bored

Enthor1
01-13-2006, 06:37 PM
"To date, I have not seen one good reason not to do this."

There could be many good reasons to do this but there is one good reason not to do this - Oleg does not feel like it.

Oleg-Generic
Oil-Water

Yay for Oleg.

AKA_TAGERT
01-13-2006, 06:46 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Enthor1:
There could be many good reasons to do this but there is one good reason not to do this - Oleg does not feel like it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Ok that does it.. You have to tell me where you got that crystal ball that allows you to read Oleg's mind! I want one too! But seriously.. Nice try, big gold star for effort!

NEXT!

AKA_TAGERT
01-13-2006, 06:47 PM
Man.. this is too easy.. I€m slapping them down faster than they can put them up! And such weak shots in the first place.. I could just let them go and watch them miss the back board completely.. but it is more fun to slap them down into the face of the shooter! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

xTHRUDx
01-13-2006, 07:04 PM
TAGERT, on HISTORIA we fly heavies all the time. we have solved the bomb sight issues can can bullseye targets from as high as 24k ft.

see here if intrested:
http://www.gozr.net/iocl/viewtopic.php?t=371

the downside of using the AI is having to set the server to "externals on". i'm not a fan of externals but i see it as something i have to deal with to fly the planes i want to fly.

i'd prefer a more accruate FM for these planes 1st than to spend the time on a cockpit. that seems easier to do than to build a cockpit (even though there are planes with a cockpit already that don't have a correct FM)

i would not like to see a generic pit but a HUD view would be ok, i guess. As for the sight, i have one that works now (see link above) but it only works in external mode. i'm confident i could devise another type of sight if i was locked into a HUD only mode.

just pic of us in action with a direct hit from 15k ft. all human pilots
http://www.warwingsart.com/historia/B17G-381stBG-532ndBS_30.jpg

p1ngu666
01-13-2006, 07:05 PM
they dont like bombers http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

neural_dream
01-13-2006, 07:18 PM
That's excellent xTHRUDx http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif.

SlickStick
01-13-2006, 07:59 PM
Those that didn't want this feature, just don't feature AI planes in their plane sets and the rest fly Wonder Woman bombers in theirs. Nothing wrong with more variety and easier use of AI bombers for those few servers that use them.

Doubtful this would ever be a priority, but meh, can't hurt to try I guess. Seems you don't have much else going on anyway. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Wow, Thrud. It must have taken some time to find the "bombsight" spots to use on the external part of the planes! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

slo123
01-13-2006, 08:08 PM
i would much rather have superman view than wonder woman

AKA_TAGERT
01-14-2006, 12:07 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by xTHRUDx:
TAGERT, on HISTORIA we fly heavies all the time. we have solved the bomb sight issues can can bullseye targets from as high as 24k ft.

see here if intrested:
http://www.gozr.net/iocl/viewtopic.php?t=371 </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Roger, wrt the bomb sight. Dont really need it.. unless my request was met.. Think about it.. if we were given the WW view as the default cockpit view for AI bombers than you wouldnt have externals to judge the IP like you do now.. Thus you would need a bomb sight.. Well, I guess you could adj what you do now using the WW view? Eitherway, the bomb sight is an easy add once we can get Oleg to get past the stigma of using the WW view as the standard cockpit view for AI bombers.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by xTHRUDx:
the downside of using the AI is having to set the server to "externals on". </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Exactally! This is my whole point!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by xTHRUDx:
i'm not a fan of externals but i see it as something i have to deal with to fly the planes i want to fly. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>But.. if we had the WW view as the standard cockpit view for AI bombers than we wouldnt need externals on. I think that would be so cool!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by xTHRUDx:
i'd prefer a more accruate FM for these planes 1st than to spend the time on a cockpit. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Well, that is exactally why Oleg has not done it.. He does not want to spend any more time on those FMs.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by xTHRUDx:
that seems easier to do than to build a cockpit (even though there are planes with a cockpit already that don't have a correct FM) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Cockpits are not ez, but not asking him to make a cockpit for each AI bomber, just keep everything as is except use the WW view for AI bombers so we can turn off externals. That would be a major improvment! If we start asking for FM work and cockpits.. kiss it good by!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by xTHRUDx:
i would not like to see a generic pit but a HUD view would be ok, i guess. As for the sight, i have one that works now (see link above) but it only works in external mode. i'm confident i could devise another type of sight if i was locked into a HUD only mode. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Ah, roger, covered that above. Generic is all we can hope for! In that it is a no brainer.. and we can not even get that.. so I wouldnt hold my breath on any FM or cockpit work for all the AI bombers.

AKA_TAGERT
01-14-2006, 12:19 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ImpStarDuece:
No.

Not for me.

Give me cockpits to fly in or nothing at all. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Guess what, you got it now!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ImpStarDuece:
The aim of this 'simulation' is to 'simulate', in terms as close as possible to reality, the experiance of flying a WW2 fighter, bomber, rocket plane or (in my case) what appears to be a brightly coloured target drone covered in flashing, neon "Shoot Me" signs. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Note, never said it wasnt! But, anyone who thinks it is real is sadly mistaken. So many things are done ON PURPOSE that ARE NOT REAL to account for the fact that your trying to simulate real world flight on a 21" monitor, keyboard and joystick. Real it aint! No where near real! So, in light of the FACT that these kinds of things are allready happening in this GAME, adding the WW view for AI bombers would not be so different than starting your engine by pressing just one button and taking off a second later.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ImpStarDuece:
How then, can you simulate the experiance of flying or crewing a WW2 bomber without any of the visual and/or physical restrictions imposed by the bombers actual design and structure? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Simple! You dont have 10 guys in your room right now anyways.. or at least I hope you dont.. Thus even if you did there is no way to man all ten positions in a DF server. Thus the addition ON PURPOSE of AI gunners.. GEEEEEE THAT IS REAL AINT IT? But I digress.. Using the WW view for AI bombers is a good way to simulate a CREW!! In that a SINGLE player can see all angles.. much like a real world CREW could. See, simple!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ImpStarDuece:
And don't go on about how this game is a poor substitute for reality. None of us get to don full leathers and flying suit or have to put up with any of the physical hardships of flight in the 1940's. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>This game is a poor substitute for reality, plane and simple!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ImpStarDuece:
Frankly, until the next game comes along and the next step up in 'realism' arrives, IL2 is as close as most of us will come to to experiance of flight in a WW2 airplane. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Again, never said it wasnt.. mater of fact had you read what I said you will note that I said it was the best sim I have seen in 15+ years of simming (since 1991). But, also note that I pointed out that no sim ever was, is, or.. now pay att here.. or ever WILL BE realistic!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ImpStarDuece:
What I want is to recreate, to the best possible degree within my current limitations, be they physical, technological or otherwise, the experience of WW2 air combat. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Ok, so let me see if I understand you correctly.. It is your *feeling* that hitting the CTRL and E key is a good simulation of the process a pilot had to go through to EJECT from his plane? Hmmmm, sorry, I dont agree.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ImpStarDuece:
I want that suspension of disbelief that makes simulations so enjoyable for me. "Wonder woman" view just kills that sense of being there worse than any other aspect of the game, 'realistic' or otherwise. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Which is why I never said anyone would be FORCED at gun point to use this option, it is for reasonable people that realise this sim.. even though it is the best thing going.. is far.. Far.. FAR away from real!

ImpStarDuece
01-14-2006, 12:41 AM
Tagert, you'll never make a good LARPer

slo123
01-14-2006, 01:19 AM
where i go to fly the heavies online i only have pf

SeaFireLIV
01-14-2006, 02:02 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by AKA_TAGERT:
Man.. this is too easy.. I€m slapping them down faster than they can put them up! And such weak shots in the first place.. I could just let them go and watch them miss the back board completely.. but it is more fun to slap them down into the face of the shooter! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Perhaps it`s just not occurred to you that most of the wiser ones among us are not prepared to argue with someone who`s already big-headed, pompous and deluded enough to assume he`s so right that no matter what good, logical argument is put against he will continue to put down with some stupid remark which he thinks is witty.

I would give you my reasons why I feel your idea is stupid, but I`ll not waste any more of my limited life span on you and this subject.

Continue your egotistical delusion. And this will be my last response to this silly idea - don`t take my lack of further responses as your victory - it isn`t.

AKA_TAGERT
01-14-2006, 09:08 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ImpStarDuece:
Tagert, you'll never make a good LARPer </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Roger, sorry if setting you straight has upset you.

AKA_TAGERT
01-14-2006, 09:12 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:
Perhaps it`s just not occurred to you that most of the wiser ones among us are not prepared to argue with someone who`s already big-headed, pompous and deluded enough to assume he`s so right that no matter what good, logical argument is put against he will continue to put down with some stupid remark which he thinks is witty. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>WOW! Your still upset from all those months back? Let it go son!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:
I would give you my reasons why I feel your idea is stupid, but I`ll not waste any more of my limited life span on you and this subject. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Sure.. sure.. sure you can, and what ever you post I know I could show you the error in your reasoning. It would start off something like this.. It is an option, if you dont like it dont use it. There would be more that would highlight how silly it is for you to focus on realism in one aspect while sourounded by intentional unrelistic things.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:
Continue your egotistical delusion. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Right back at yah!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:
And this will be my last response to this silly idea - don`t take my lack of further responses as your victory - it isn`t. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Roger, you got nothing! Thus I win.

neural_dream
01-14-2006, 09:31 AM
Congrats
http://www.netitor.com/photos/schools/geo/galleries/gymnastics/2004-05/ncaa-trophy-pics/childs-trophy.jpg

AKA_TAGERT
01-14-2006, 10:00 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by neural_dream:
Congrats
http://www.netitor.com/photos/schools/geo/galleries/gymnastics/2004-05/ncaa-trophy-pics/childs-trophy.jpg </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Ill take! And the sign too!

Tater-SW-
01-14-2006, 01:10 PM
impstrardeuce, there is nothing at all contradictory with bombers getting a WW cockpit and generic bombsight. This in effect ONLY affects online play. Right now in the name of supposed "realism" you fight online with practically no bombers at all. How is THAT realistic?

So to fly anyplace with US heavies, or many other bombers no flyable in game, you must be on a server with externals ON. Externals on is FAR more unrealistic than only having WW view for bombers. Remember the only way to have a realistic bomer anyway is for each bomber to be entirely crewed by human players on TS to call contacts.

Simulation is not the same thing a "cockpits on" or "no icons." Simulation requires that end results are realistically modeled. You can have a hyper detailed single fighter in a "sim" but if there are no other aircraft, you won't simulate much of anything. In a sense, the WW view probably more closely approximates the SA of the bomber crew as a whole than a cockpit view in game that is artificially limited compared to RL (no parallax around frames, no leaning, etc).

We should experiment. Park a bus in a field. Have 7 guys in it with 3 facing forward, 1 on each side, one facing to the rear, and one sitting on the roof. Paint out the windows the guys aren't looking through. We'll then use a pigeon thrower to launch clay pigeons around the bus, and people will call out sightings. Count how many get missed (not seen by any crew member).

Now, do the same thing with 1 guy---he's allowed to run around the bus to look out other windows all he likes. Count how many he misses.

Now, just throw targets over a guy just standing in the field with no bus at all.

I'd wager the 1st and third experiments would have closer numbers than weither did to the single guy in the bus. The single guy in the bus is what we have now.

tater

Low_Flyer_MkII
01-14-2006, 02:06 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">sourounded by intentional unrelistic things. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's "surrounded by intentionally unrealistic things".

neural_dream
01-14-2006, 02:49 PM
Congrats
Here's one more for you.
http://blogs.warwick.ac.uk/images/adamwestbrook/2004/12/13/award_geek.jpg
for spotting the hidden only linguistic mistake of the thread.

Low_Flyer_MkII
01-14-2006, 02:51 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

AKA_TAGERT
01-14-2006, 03:14 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by neural_dream:
Congrats
Here's one more for you.
http://blogs.warwick.ac.uk/images/adamwestbrook/2004/12/13/award_geek.jpg
for spotting the hidden only linguistic mistake of the thread. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Cool! Do you got one with a big handle bar mustash and flying helmet and goggles. You know, with that big that big tosser ****** look on his face? Because those are the best and make me laugh for hours!

Low_Flyer_MkII
01-14-2006, 03:15 PM
"Cool! Do you got one"... "handle bar mustash "

That's have you got...and moustache

ImpStarDuece
01-14-2006, 03:32 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Tater-SW-:
impstrardeuce, there is nothing at all contradictory with bombers getting a WW cockpit and generic bombsight. This in effect ONLY affects online play. Right now in the name of supposed "realism" you fight online with practically no bombers at all. How is THAT realistic? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

For me? Fairly realistic, as I rarely fly online anymore. What happens in online play doesn't concern me too much, as I grew tired of it about 12 months ago. I can understand your desire, I just don't see the NEED.

Funnily enough, we still have plenty of options if you want to fly level bombers: 2 versions of the He-111, a B-25, an A-20, a G4M3 and a TB-3. Potentially we also have a Ju-88, another A-20 version and a couple of versions of the Pe-2 coming at some point in the future.

I'd much rather see more mediums in the game, as that is what the engine is best at simulating. Bombing from a disembodied foward view with no cockpit around me just doesn't do anything for me. If I want to bomb from a B-24, I want to feel like i'm actually in a B-24, not looking out from Linda Carter's bra strap.

I'm not opposing you, i'm just saying from my perspective, as an offline flyer and occasional co-op player, it doesn't add anything, or really make much sense to me.

Hawgdog
01-14-2006, 03:39 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by p1ngu666:
cmon megile, only another 11,447 posts and your equal to me http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

wonder woman view would be realisitic as it means u could sim seeing from every crew member, at the same time. bomber pilots already have todo the job of 7 men, so that would make it easier...

but they against making it easy for bomber pilots http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Then join my TB3 ONLY bomber server!
Those Tb's dogfight quite well with no pesky cannon armed biplanes around

Mispunt
01-16-2006, 05:03 AM
I'm with you on this one Tagert, I've raised this issue before too and got much sneering from the realism nazi crowd.
There simply isn't a good reason against this, period.
Why? becasue as a player it's you yourself who decides what is acceptable and what not. And as long as you have free choice in joining which ever server you like....

Keep it up! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

AKA_TAGERT
01-16-2006, 09:34 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mispunt:
I'm with you on this one Tagert, I've raised this issue before too and got much sneering from the realism nazi crowd.
There simply isn't a good reason against this, period.
Why? becasue as a player it's you yourself who decides what is acceptable and what not. And as long as you have free choice in joining which ever server you like....

Keep it up! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Roger that! It is amazing to me that so many seem to miss that simple concept of an option! Kind of sad really.