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Rab09
08-11-2006, 03:35 PM
Just thought you all would be interested in this.
October 6,1944; A British-built submarine, "Zwaardvisch" manned by a Dutch crew, commanded by H.A.Gossens, R.N.N. Patrolling off Surabaya, sank "U-168", which was inroute from Germany to Japan with technical info on radar and plans for a new sub. Twenty men including the subs skipper "Commander Pich", the doctor and 18 ratings made it to the surface. Gossens kept Pich, the doctor and two technicians.

November10,1944, "U-537 en route for operations off Perth, while north of Lombok Strait. the U.S. submarine "Flounder", commanded by James Edward Stevens, fired 4 torpedoes and sank her.

April 23,1945, off Surabaya, "U-183" was sunk by "Besurgo" commanded by Herman Edward Miller. He fired 6 torpedoes and "U-183" sank instantly, leaving one man- the officer of the deck- in the water. He was picked up.

Rab09
08-11-2006, 03:35 PM
Just thought you all would be interested in this.
October 6,1944; A British-built submarine, "Zwaardvisch" manned by a Dutch crew, commanded by H.A.Gossens, R.N.N. Patrolling off Surabaya, sank "U-168", which was inroute from Germany to Japan with technical info on radar and plans for a new sub. Twenty men including the subs skipper "Commander Pich", the doctor and 18 ratings made it to the surface. Gossens kept Pich, the doctor and two technicians.

November10,1944, "U-537 en route for operations off Perth, while north of Lombok Strait. the U.S. submarine "Flounder", commanded by James Edward Stevens, fired 4 torpedoes and sank her.

April 23,1945, off Surabaya, "U-183" was sunk by "Besurgo" commanded by Herman Edward Miller. He fired 6 torpedoes and "U-183" sank instantly, leaving one man- the officer of the deck- in the water. He was picked up.

Realjambo
08-11-2006, 03:58 PM
Can you provide links to this info, there must be a lot to read, thanks for posting!

VikingGrandad
08-12-2006, 01:54 AM
Where did you find this info? I'd like to read more about these encounters too.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Rab09:
Gossens kept Pich, the doctor and two technicians. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
What happened to the other survivors?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">the U.S. submarine "Flounder", commanded by James Edward Stevens, fired 4 torpedoes and sank her [U-537]. </div></BLOCKQUOTE><BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">He [Herman Edward Miller] fired 6 torpedoes and "U-183" sank instantly </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I guess U-boats were a rare target for USN subs, so I can see why four torpedoes might be launched - but six?! No wonder U-183 sank instantly - I wonder how many of those six torpedoes hit the target!?

That reminds me... I read somewhere that, in WW2, 1 in 4 torpedoes launched from U-boats hit and sank their target - whereas only 1 in 10 torpedoes launched from USN subs hit and sank their target. That statistic does not bode well for SH4!!

Rab09
08-12-2006, 03:43 AM
RealJumbo, VikingGrandad,
Sorry I don't have any links to this info as I was reading Clay Blair,Jrs' book "Silent Victory, The U.S. Submarine War ajainst Japan". It is IMHO a must read for all who are interested in U.S. Submarines. (pub. by J.B. Lippincott Company, 1975)
As for the torpedoes, well the American ones were the worest of all the combatents in WWII. They only hard a 500lb. warhead. The Japanese torpedoe at the time of Pearl Harbor was called the "Type 95, Mod-1, at 21" and 900lb. warhead, range 10,000yds at 49 knots or 13,000yds at 45 knots. Later version the Mod-2, carried 1,210lb warhead to 6,000yds at 49 knots or 8,200yds at 45 knots. These were "oxygen" torpedoes.
The surface-ship torpedoe of the U.S. was the Mark XV at 21" and with a 780lb warhead for 6,000yds at 45 knots or 15,000yds at 26 knots. Where as the Japanes torpedoe was called the "Long Lance" at 24", with a 1,078lb warhead for 22,000yds at 49 knots or 40,000yds at 36 knots.
So it took many more torpedoes to sink ships for the U.S. than it did for everyone else. And the U.S. torpedoe was full of bugs and the skippers didn't begin to have confidence in the Mark XIV torpedoe till September 1944. Pryer to that it was nothing to shoot 20 torpedoes and only have about 5 that worked as designed!!
The other survivors from the U-168 sinking were put in a native boat.
For the sinking of U-537 Stevens saw one hit, then smoke and flame.
The German force was small and operated mostly in the Indian Ocean, achieving little, inasmuch as the codebreakers kept a close eye on it and routed shipping away from the U-Boats.
For the sinking of U-183 at least one torpedoe hit. An interesting note here the U-Boat was flying a Japanese flag!!
In all. U.S. submarines sank 4 German vessels in the Pacific: 2 U-Boats (U-537, U-183), a freighter and the merchant raider "Michel".
As I said this book is a must read for U.S. Submarine operations in the Pacific.
As for SH4, if they do it right it will be more like 1 in 15 thru mid 1943 and then 1 in 8 or so till early 1944. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Goose_Green
08-12-2006, 04:04 AM
Didn't the Japanese have the most reliable torpedoes in the war? And the fastest too?

Rudeltaktik1963
08-12-2006, 07:30 AM
I seem to remember reading somewhere that the japanese had developed a torpedo called "Long Lance" (or something similar), which had a huge range (10km +) as well as high speed (45knots +). I'll try track down the ref....

Rudeltaktik1963
08-12-2006, 07:37 AM
Check this Ref. http://www.combinedfleet.com/torps.htm

Japanese Type 93 Torpedo (for Surface vessels):
20,000m @ 48 kts
32,000m @ 40 kts
40,000m @ 36 kts

Japanese Type 95 Torpedo (for subs):
9,000m @ 49 kts
12,000m @ 45 kts

Goose_Green
08-12-2006, 04:19 PM
I remember the term Long Lance now, thanks for reminding me http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif