PDA

View Full Version : There is no effin' way...



x__CRASH__x
08-14-2005, 02:13 AM
THis is not a troll. This is not a joke. I'm just a little pissed.

There is no effin' way planes flew like this. An airplane should not feel like its sitting on the tip of a pencil. It should not freely rock around it's 3 axies like it's a top! This new FM is bunk. I'm all for torque effect, I'm all for realism, but this isn't real. It's an experiement. And it needs tightened up.

Wobblin' Gobblin is my nickname for every single plane in this sim now. Is it because I don't have rudder pedal? Now I have to buy rudder pedals to be competitive? I don't know. I'm just getting pissed off at this lame FM change. The next patch better do something positive, or else...

or else I may be forced to write another serious rant post. And I don't like to be serious.

SEE WHAT YOU HAVE DONE TO ME OLEG!!!

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

x__CRASH__x
08-14-2005, 02:13 AM
THis is not a troll. This is not a joke. I'm just a little pissed.

There is no effin' way planes flew like this. An airplane should not feel like its sitting on the tip of a pencil. It should not freely rock around it's 3 axies like it's a top! This new FM is bunk. I'm all for torque effect, I'm all for realism, but this isn't real. It's an experiement. And it needs tightened up.

Wobblin' Gobblin is my nickname for every single plane in this sim now. Is it because I don't have rudder pedal? Now I have to buy rudder pedals to be competitive? I don't know. I'm just getting pissed off at this lame FM change. The next patch better do something positive, or else...

or else I may be forced to write another serious rant post. And I don't like to be serious.

SEE WHAT YOU HAVE DONE TO ME OLEG!!!

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

Atomic_Marten
08-14-2005, 02:24 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by x__CRASH__x:
THis is not a troll. This is not a joke. I'm just a little pissed. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">There is no effin' way planes flew like this. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

They sure were not.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">An airplane should not feel like its sitting on the tip of a pencil. It should not freely rock around it's 3 axies like it's a top! This new FM is bunk. I'm all for torque effect, I'm all for realism, but this isn't real. It's an experiement. And it needs tightened up. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes. An experiment.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Wobblin' Gobblin is my nickname for every single plane in this sim now. Is it because I don't have rudder pedal? Now I have to buy rudder pedals to be competitive? I don't know. I'm just getting pissed off at this lame FM change. The next patch better do something positive, or else... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It is hard, yes I know I have EVO and I know what are you talking about. Difference has increased...

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">or else I may be forced to write another serious rant post. And I don't like to be serious.

SEE WHAT YOU HAVE DONE TO ME OLEG!!!

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Go ahead I like your posts.
-------------
I have just remembered Nicholas Achtog... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

VFA-25_Peckens
08-14-2005, 02:46 AM
the calibration in my handle twist screwed up in my joystick the day the patch came out so now i use 2 buttons for rudder and i only really use them is on take off but in a df i have to work hard to line up a shot but otherwise i love the fm the torque is perfect also try trim if u are having trouble

Jetbuff
08-14-2005, 02:49 AM
It is a little known fact that the rudder pedals in late war German aircraft were ommitted to save on weight - afterall, they were not necessary for aircraft control and were only there to allow the pilots to exercise their legs during long combat missions. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

MEGILE
08-14-2005, 03:01 AM
We know. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Pirschjaeger
08-14-2005, 03:41 AM
I can say one way or the other for sure since I started with a new stick the since the first time I started flying the new FM. But, I don have a problem just as "Crash" suggested, but mostly with the rudder.

IMHO, the FM has ruined the Fw190's. I used to be able to aim and hit my target quite well. But now, the yaw in the new FM turns the 190 into a yoyo, horizontally. The guyz I often fly online with have stopped flying IL-2 and are waiting for BOB. The server is always empty. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif When I chat with them online and ask their opinions of the new FM, I get only negative opinions.

I like the new FM with exception to what it has done to the 190's. They have become very unstable, as have other Allied planes. I also feel the 109 lost a lot of power, but that I don't mind.

I've been considering uninstally 4.01 and going back to the version before. I'm 80% happy with the new FM but I fly the 190 90% of the time.

Oleg broke my favorite toy. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/cry.gif

Fritz

Pirschjaeger
08-14-2005, 04:11 AM
Seriously though, Oleg's new fm had made the twisty-stick obsolete.

Fritz

NAFP_supah
08-14-2005, 04:25 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by x__CRASH__x:
THis is not a troll. This is not a joke. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Suuuuure it isnt.

LEXX_Luthor
08-14-2005, 04:48 AM
Bf-109K4 had no rudder. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif Just fly that.

WWSensei
08-14-2005, 05:19 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Pirschjaeger:
Seriously though, Oleg's new fm had made the twisty-stick obsolete.

Fritz </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The more a sim approaches realism the fewer and fewer people there will be that can fly it. It's why not everyone in the world is a pilot and why every pilot isn't a fighter pilot.

You don't see many twisty-sticks in real aircraft.

Lucius_Esox
08-14-2005, 05:29 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">The more a sim approaches realism the fewer and fewer people there will be that can fly it. It's why not everyone in the world is a pilot and why every pilot isn't a fighter pilot.

You don't see many twisty-sticks in real aircraft.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The reason most people in the world aren't pilots has nothing to do with it's difficulty I'm sure http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

The 150 per hour lesson time might have something to do with it though http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

As far as twisty sticks go,,, charts, facts, figures, data, please!!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

Pirschjaeger
08-14-2005, 05:35 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by WWSensei:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Pirschjaeger:
Seriously though, Oleg's new fm had made the twisty-stick obsolete.

Fritz </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The more a sim approaches realism the fewer and fewer people there will be that can fly it. It's why not everyone in the world is a pilot and why every pilot isn't a fighter pilot.

You don't see many twisty-sticks in real aircraft. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Realism will always be limited to hardware. I don't expect realism in a sim.

Fritz

Vipez-
08-14-2005, 06:26 AM
Looking at Ubi forums, General Discussion page one.. for some reason i count 7 topics started by Crash.. i guess you really are bored http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/354.gif

han freak solo
08-14-2005, 09:29 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by x__CRASH__x:
THis is not a troll. This is not a joke. I'm just a little pissed.

There is no effin' way planes flew like this. An airplane should not feel like its sitting on the tip of a pencil. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's exactly the way the Spitfire acts IMHO.

Woof603
08-14-2005, 09:33 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by WWSensei:

The more a sim approaches realism the fewer and fewer people there will be that can fly it. It's why not everyone in the world is a pilot and why every pilot isn't a fighter pilot.

You don't see many twisty-sticks in real aircraft. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You are exactly right, WWSensei. And if this thread is a troll, which it probably is, it still contributes to the whining for a dumbing down of the FM. A sad thing.

LEBillfish
08-14-2005, 09:35 AM
Odd, I use a twisty stick, use cntl+the numeral pad for trim, and when fighting swap the stick to my left (uncoordinated hand) so I can use the mouse with my right........Also, everything else is done via the keyboard except control of ailerons, rudder, and elevator all done with the stick.

I find 4.01 easier to fly then 3.04.....



As to the FM being wrong....well you always hear/read how they tried to design fighters to "ride the razors edge" of being out of control so they would manuever well.....Maybe this is simply how it was (though don't know)....Try toning down your stick inputs http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

croc106
08-14-2005, 09:38 AM
well i like them. so means u must suck. i hve no prbblem. and to me i think it is a troll. o did i mention im point blank.

VW-IceFire
08-14-2005, 09:48 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LEBillfish:
Odd, I use a twisty stick, use cntl+the numeral pad for trim, and when fighting swap the stick to my left (uncoordinated hand) so I can use the mouse with my right........Also, everything else is done via the keyboard except control of ailerons, rudder, and elevator all done with the stick.

I find 4.01 easier to fly then 3.04.....



As to the FM being wrong....well you always hear/read how they tried to design fighters to "ride the razors edge" of being out of control so they would manuever well.....Maybe this is simply how it was (though don't know)....Try toning down your stick inputs http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I'm with you Billfish. I use similar setups and have no real problems with the FM. Its a bit wonky at times but it feels really great.

han freak solo
08-14-2005, 10:16 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LEBillfish:
well you always hear/read how they tried to design fighters to "ride the razors edge" of being out of control so they would manuever well </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I believe this to be true. I know I've read stories of "hands on" aircraft. I know from my dirt bike experience that certain brands were made to be more "flickable" and others with more high speed stability. The "flickable" bikes were relatively unstable at any speed, let alone high speed.

My statement about the Spitfire is true to me, even though I do like the 4.01 FM for the most part.

Stigler_9_JG52
08-14-2005, 10:48 AM
I always felt the IL-2 FM before 4.01 had that unrealistic "on rails" feel.

Planes DO wallow and mush, because they're heavy objects sitting in the relative nothingness of air, with ailerons, elevators, stabs and rudders guiding them.

This new FM has been a quantum leap FORWARD, IMO. If you don't have rudders, and are used to using a twisty stick, that's your problem, not the FM. Time for both an equipment and an attitude upgrade, my friend.

Pirschjaeger
08-14-2005, 10:56 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LEBillfish:
Odd, I use a twisty stick, use cntl+the numeral pad for trim, and when fighting swap the stick to my left (uncoordinated hand) so I can use the mouse with my right........Also, everything else is done via the keyboard except control of ailerons, rudder, and elevator all done with the stick.

I find 4.01 easier to fly then 3.04.....



As to the FM being wrong....well you always hear/read how they tried to design fighters to "ride the razors edge" of being out of control so they would manuever well.....Maybe this is simply how it was (though don't know)....Try toning down your stick inputs http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I tried setting up the stick but it made no positive difference. I tried playing with the deadband also but all that did is made the delay in the rudder longer.

I'm not sure what the rest of you do to aim but I have always depended heavily on the rudder for this. I used to use the 3D gold and had very good results and used little ammo to down my target. But the 3D's tend to break too easily so I went to the Evo, assuming the inner componants were the same.

I talked to some guyz that had the same problem and they solved their situation by changing to pedals. I just don't feel like investing any more money into this sim so I'd rather find another solution.

Fritz

Pirschjaeger
08-14-2005, 11:02 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Stigler_9_JG52:
I always felt the IL-2 FM before 4.01 had that unrealistic "on rails" feel.

Planes DO wallow and mush, because they're heavy objects sitting in the relative nothingness of air, with ailerons, elevators, stabs and rudders guiding them.

This new FM has been a quantum leap FORWARD, IMO. If you don't have rudders, and are used to using a twisty stick, that's your problem, not the FM. Time for both an equipment and an attitude upgrade, my friend. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I already said the new FM has made the stick obsolete. What is wrong with my attitute?

Fritz

TAGERT.
08-14-2005, 11:34 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by x__CRASH__x:
THis is not a troll. This is not a joke. I'm just a little pissed. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>ROTFL!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by x__CRASH__x:
There is no effin' way planes flew like this. An airplane should not feel like its sitting on the tip of a pencil. It should not freely rock around it's 3 axies like it's a top! This new FM is bunk. I'm all for torque effect, I'm all for realism, but this isn't real. It's an experiement. And it needs tightened up. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>ROTFL!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by x__CRASH__x:
Wobblin' Gobblin is my nickname for every single plane in this sim now. Is it because I don't have rudder pedal? Now I have to buy rudder pedals to be competitive? I don't know. I'm just getting pissed off at this lame FM change. The next patch better do something positive, or else...

or else I may be forced to write another serious rant post. And I don't like to be serious.

SEE WHAT YOU HAVE DONE TO ME OLEG!!!

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>ROTFL

SeaNorris
08-14-2005, 11:36 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by x__CRASH__x:
There is no effin' way....... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
.....Your serious http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

Philipscdrw
08-14-2005, 12:00 PM
Crash - fly the bombers instead. And read this. (http://www.flightsim.com/cgi/kds?$=main/howto/rud/rud1.htm)

Schutze_S
08-14-2005, 12:01 PM
Get peddles....... Nuff said..no more whinging

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/23110283/m...021085043#7021085043 (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/23110283/m/2031070043/r/7021085043#7021085043)

Stigler_9_JG52
08-14-2005, 12:03 PM
Pieschjaeger writes:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">What is wrong with my attitude? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, for one, I was responding to X_CRASH_X's comments, not specifically yours regarding the twisty stick. So, if you already realize that using a twisty is part of the problem, your attitude doesn't need adjusting.

But if anyone thinks planes don't "wobble" in three dimensions if left to their own devices (precisely why they need pilots and are not drones), and that they have no need for rudder control (among other things), then they do need to adjust their attitudes: it's their setup, not the FM.

Obi_Kwiet
08-14-2005, 03:13 PM
I don't like the whole get into a spin and go straight down with your plane being horosontal to the ground. There's no way to get out of it. I'm 99% sure that that's impossible.

Stigler_9_JG52
08-14-2005, 03:31 PM
A flat spin is highly dreaded for a reason.

I won't get into whether in IL-2 you get into a flat spin when you should only, but it is true that a flat spin is a particularly dangerous one to get into.

faustnik
08-14-2005, 04:07 PM
The new FM is great! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Maybe you just need to have a more positive 4.01 attitude Crash? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

x__CRASH__x
08-14-2005, 11:46 PM
Stigler, you can eat a d**k. Seriously. I've read nothing from you but contempt for people, so you are the last person who should tell me to check my attitude.

As far as the comment about dumbing down the FM, thats not my intent. I don't believe the current model reflects true physics. Yes, its a step forward, but it's stil wobblin gobblin.

NonWonderDog
08-15-2005, 12:24 AM
I really don't have any instability problems at all. Yeah, it's a bit hard to keep the guns pointed on the target at long range, but that's supposed to be hard.

It should definitely be bumpier, though. Much, much bumpier. The air is very rarely anywhere as smooth at low altitude as it always seems to be in the sim. Maybe the planes should be a bit more stable about their axes, but even the simple act of flying under a fair-weather cumulus cloud should bounce your aim around. Real thermals would be nice, too.

Turbulence in general needs an upgrade. The "turbulence" we get periodically in thunderstorms is just rediculous. The plane should buck like a bronco and try to enter turns on its own, but it shouldn't do the crazy shaking we get now. I always just think something's falling off when I hit "turbulence"; it doesn't feel like turbulence at all.

Blackdog5555
08-15-2005, 01:15 AM
Yes, Definately using a twisty with planes like the Mustang and P47 are not recommended. When i go back to pedals to problems gome. Not enough damping for a twisty. but, Some planes still feel like they are on rails... some dont IMO. The P47 is the wobbliest. cheers

faustnik
08-15-2005, 01:23 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">The P47 is the wobbliest. cheers </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

One of the guys are in squad disagrees with you. He does fine with the Jug, but says flying the Fw190 is like trying to balance the plane on the head of a pin. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif I think the IAR80 is the roughest to fly in 4.01.

I think it's all in your attitude and willingness to learn. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Badsight.
08-15-2005, 02:05 AM
the Jug was a fine flying plane in v3.04 - best its ever been

now its got this really touchy yaw going on , it is really no good for the aim , especially when you need to get in lots of hits as you do with fiftys

Sturm_Williger
08-15-2005, 02:37 AM
I must admit that I seldom fly the Fw190 A-series as I'm not really good enough to score in it ( D is easier IMHO ).

But last week when I flew one in a squad co-op, I found it almost impossible to land as the nose kept bouncing up and down. There didn't seem to be a lot of turbulence, but everytime I got low and slow in landing configuration, the nose started bouncing.

I definitely didn't find that happening in 3.04. Is it "more correct" ? I don't know, but it was **** hard to land ( broke the gear in the end ).

NorrisMcWhirter
08-15-2005, 02:50 AM
If you have an MS FFB2 stick, there is a test mode where you can set it so it feels like it's balancing on the tip of a pyramid - that's just like the 190 now - try it!

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

More seriously, I've no pedals and I think it's OK flying the 190 even with a twisty stick. It's a little more 'fluid' but so are most planes.

Ta,
Norris

Pirschjaeger
08-15-2005, 06:16 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Blackdog5555:
Yes, Definately using a twisty with planes like the Mustang and P47 are not recommended. When i go back to pedals to problems gome. Not enough damping for a twisty. but, Some planes still feel like they are on rails... some dont IMO. The P47 is the wobbliest. cheers </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I tried the Corsair lastnight. I would say that must be one of, if not thee, wobbliest.

BTW, I spoke to a beta tester and he claims we never got the good patch since it was too realistic and not noob friendly. Anyone know about this?

Fritz

Pirschjaeger
08-15-2005, 06:21 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by NorrisMcWhirter:
If you have an MS FFB2 stick, there is a test mode where you can set it so it feels like it's balancing on the tip of a pyramid - that's just like the 190 now - try it!

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

More seriously, I've no pedals and I think it's OK flying the 190 even with a twisty stick. It's a little more 'fluid' but so are most planes.

Ta,
Norris </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The more I read the more I think it's not so much the twisty stick, rather the twisty Evo. Seems there are a few twisty users who have no problem. I have never used anything but. Is anyone else using the Evo?

Fritz

WWSensei
08-15-2005, 09:22 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Lucius_Esox:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">The more a sim approaches realism the fewer and fewer people there will be that can fly it. It's why not everyone in the world is a pilot and why every pilot isn't a fighter pilot.

You don't see many twisty-sticks in real aircraft.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The reason most people in the world aren't pilots has nothing to do with it's difficulty I'm sure http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

The 150 per hour lesson time might have something to do with it though http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Didn't say it did. Primary reason most people don't have rudder pedals is most likely the cost.

As for the twisty stick comment...it isn't up to me to prove they aren't in any aircraft. Can't prove a negative. Let's just say of the 40+ real world aircraft types I have flown not one of them had a twisty stick. They all had pedals.

WWSensei
08-15-2005, 09:24 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Pirschjaeger:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by WWSensei:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Pirschjaeger:
Seriously though, Oleg's new fm had made the twisty-stick obsolete.

Fritz </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The more a sim approaches realism the fewer and fewer people there will be that can fly it. It's why not everyone in the world is a pilot and why every pilot isn't a fighter pilot.

You don't see many twisty-sticks in real aircraft. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Realism will always be limited to hardware. I don't expect realism in a sim.

Fritz </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

By definition a simulator is exactly where you would expect to see more realism. More accurately, you don't expect realism in a GAME.

The solution is simple. Turn off the options you aren't comfortable with. That's why they are options.

Kuna15
08-15-2005, 09:37 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">The more I read the more I think it's not so much the twisty stick, rather the twisty Evo. Seems there are a few twisty users who have no problem. I have never used anything but. Is anyone else using the Evo?

Fritz </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Fritz I'm using EVO, and I can still hold on my own against 'green' players. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif
But I don't fly much online these days...

It is harder to aim now, no doubt about it.

Pirschjaeger
08-15-2005, 10:17 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Kuna15:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">The more I read the more I think it's not so much the twisty stick, rather the twisty Evo. Seems there are a few twisty users who have no problem. I have never used anything but. Is anyone else using the Evo?

Fritz </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Fritz I'm using EVO, and I can still hold on my own against 'green' players. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif
But I don't fly much online these days...

It is harder to aim now, no doubt about it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Kuna,

I'm wondering if you have the same results. It seems there's a fairly long delay in reaction from the rudder. When I twist the stick I must wait a short time for the plane to react. Then, it's as if the rudder was stuck and suddenly came free, thus wobbling the plane like crazy.

I checked the dead band settings and it's not that. Please use your Evo, offline, and try this with the 190a4 and a5. The Corsair and P-51 also had a mean wobble. I'd like to know if we have the same results.

Fritz

Pirschjaeger
08-15-2005, 10:21 AM
BTW Kuna, my best accuracy range used to be 500-750 meters. Now it's 500-750 square meters with luck. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Fritz

Kuna15
08-15-2005, 10:42 AM
I have checked and can say that I did not see delay in rudder reaction. You can also check your rudder control on stick by comparing it to the keyboard rudder controls (my are X and Y for full right/left rudder).

What is a big problem for me is that I can't hold plane steady pointing on target (without shooting) and target aircraft is flying straight without any rudder action.

My plane has like Norris pointed out some 'fluid' feeling.

I am happier when I shoot at plane that is evading, because in turn I can apparently give him more accurate and longer burst.

But interestingly it seems that many online players have realised that, and situations like when aircraft just flying straight when you are on his six with maybe a bit of rudder input occasionally as evasive action, are not so rare now.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">BTW Kuna, my best accuracy range used to be 500-750 meters. Now it's 500-750 square meters with luck. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

ROTFL http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

I know nose of the aircraft is dancing left-right constantly. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Grue_
08-15-2005, 11:20 AM
v4.01 has improved my flying.

Because I have a zillion pounds worth of flight sim controls I now have more of an advantage over all the people who don't http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

I use an EVO at work and it's rudder control sucks compared to a Microsoft Sidewinder let alone a set of pedals.

NorrisMcWhirter
08-15-2005, 12:36 PM
500-750m?

That's quite far to be shooting from luck or judgement!

Ta,
Norris

Kuna15
08-15-2005, 01:18 PM
IMO shooting range depends on what is the armament of aircraft that I am flying.

If my aircraft is happened to be armed with
-ShVaK
-.50cal
-Hispano 20mm
-MK103
-or even MG151
I would not hesitate to shoot from 500m if there is no better chance available. ShVaKs and MK103s particularly are quite devastating from that range.
IMO shooting from MK108 at that range is in most cases waste of ammo assuming that is not a newbie on my 12.

geetarman
08-15-2005, 01:47 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Pirschjaeger:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Kuna15:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">The more I read the more I think it's not so much the twisty stick, rather the twisty Evo. Seems there are a few twisty users who have no problem. I have never used anything but. Is anyone else using the Evo?

Fritz </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You will, most probably, continue to be frustrated until you pony up the dough for some rudder pedals. After 2 months of using them, and adjusting the settings, I've been able to "dial" out 85% of the yaw and pitch problems in most planes. The pedals allow you greater sensitivity in the ability to control the plane.

Fritz I'm using EVO, and I can still hold on my own against 'green' players. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif
But I don't fly much online these days...

It is harder to aim now, no doubt about it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Kuna,

I'm wondering if you have the same results. It seems there's a fairly long delay in reaction from the rudder. When I twist the stick I must wait a short time for the plane to react. Then, it's as if the rudder was stuck and suddenly came free, thus wobbling the plane like crazy.

I checked the dead band settings and it's not that. Please use your Evo, offline, and try this with the 190a4 and a5. The Corsair and P-51 also had a mean wobble. I'd like to know if we have the same results.

Fritz </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Stigler_9_JG52
08-15-2005, 02:27 PM
@X-Crash:

Hit a nerve, didn't I?

And, forgive me for noticing that I did actually discuss why "wobbling" DOES reflect physics more than "flying on a rail", and that it's accurately reflected in the absence of rudder input (or misintended input courtesy of hand torque on a twisty-toy stick).

So, even though it'll likely burst a vein in your temple, I'll say it again:

YOU're the problem. Not the FM. Change your attitude.

NorrisMcWhirter
08-15-2005, 05:09 PM
Kuna:

I rarely open up at more than 400m so I just found it surprising. Then again, I have disabled D9s from 600m+ with .50s...I just got used to having to fire from a short distance with the pre-4.01 151/20s so old habits die hard.

Like you say, it depends what you're firing. If you want to spray and pray, you can do it from quite a distance.

Ta,
Norris

VFS-214_Hawk
08-15-2005, 05:34 PM
I have a question.

In the settings the server can select to turn off the heavy torque effect.

Pros and cons?

Enforcer572005
08-15-2005, 05:42 PM
Ive flown the same set of CH F16 stick and pedals for about 10yrs now (actualy use about 6 of that) and I've found the new FM to fly pretty good in the planes ive flown in, including the Corsair and the 109....I have no idea how "realistic" it is, as my limited RW flt time is in Piper J-3,Cessna 140, Aeronica Chief,and Cesna 150.

I think rudder pedals are nearly manditory for a flt sim like this for MOST of us. Ive flown alot in the I-16 and Lagg-3 variants while building my VVS fighters project, and While the I-16 is even more unstable than it was, the spins are now recoverable. I just have to stay on top of things. IVe also found the corsair to be controlable as long as you think ahead a bit. Im sure some may be a bit off, but I highly recomend rudder pedals. you can use them on tank sims and ohter stuff to. Very useful. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

Stigler_9_JG52
08-15-2005, 08:38 PM
Anyone who turns off torque does so for "convenience", and just isn't to be taken seriously.

What's next, you don't like it when you get blasted when an opponent hits you, so you turn Invulnerability on?

Don't like gravity, so you turn spins off?

Where does it end?

There is NOTHING to support the absense of torque, and actually, every evidence to support that it's already been toned down to salve egos and to allow people to hamfist their aircraft.

Pirschjaeger
08-15-2005, 09:08 PM
Actually I like the torque for three reasons.

A) seems realistic

B) it's a great tool for recovery from spins

C) it's a great tool when your ailerons have been damaged.

I would mind having more torque.

Fritz

CannonFodda_99
08-15-2005, 10:42 PM
My thoughts are that very few if any people here have actually flown these aircraft before in real life, so we dont really know how they handle, no amount of reading books about the subject can give a highly accurate idea of how they fly. Any airshow pilots who fly these machines out there who could tell us whether these FM are realistic or not?

Cannon

Jetbuff
08-15-2005, 10:45 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Obi_Kwiet:
I don't like the whole get into a spin and go straight down with your plane being horosontal to the ground. There's no way to get out of it. I'm 99% sure that that's impossible. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
With enough altitude, recovering from a spin is not an issue for most aircraft in the sim. I will say though that I find the sim's recovery procedure does not always appear to coincide with "proper" recovery procedures. In the sim, you need to throw the stick forward and against the spin (i.e. right and forward in a left-hand spin) plus applying opposite rudder. How realistic this is would be better answered by real pilots. However, it is recoverable and it should be dangerous if you don't have the altitude. Furthermore, torque can actually help you in a spin.

faustnik
08-15-2005, 10:59 PM
This thread has driven me to add a new line to my signature. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Pirschjaeger
08-15-2005, 11:05 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jetbuff:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Obi_Kwiet:
I don't like the whole get into a spin and go straight down with your plane being horosontal to the ground. There's no way to get out of it. I'm 99% sure that that's impossible. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
With enough altitude, recovering from a spin is not an issue for most aircraft in the sim. I will say though that I find the sim's recovery procedure does not always appear to coincide with "proper" recovery procedures. In the sim, you need to throw the stick forward and against the spin (i.e. right and forward in a left-hand spin) plus applying opposite rudder. How realistic this is would be better answered by real pilots. However, it is recoverable and it should be dangerous if you don't have the altitude. Furthermore, torque can actually help you in a spin. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I do exactly as you said Jetbuff. As soon as I enter a spin I drop the throttle. Then, stick forward, opposite rudder, and throttle full, then throttle back, then throttle full and I'm out of the spin. I can't say whether this works for all planes but it works for the 109 and 190.

I only worry about a spin if I have an enemy at my 6. Then it's usually bad unless he overshoots.

Fritz

Pirschjaeger
08-15-2005, 11:21 PM
Ok, it's pretty obvious now that my twisty evo is the problem, thanx to all the positive posts.

A few have mentioned racing wheel pedals. I have seen these in the shops. Now I have a question; What are your shoe sizes?

My shoe size is 47/48 European and 13/13.5 North American. My feet are wide and I've never had a need for snowshoes. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

From the pedals I've seen, there is no way I can use them. These pedals are not much bigger than the dimmer switch in a 65' buick. And to make matters worse, they are side by side.

Keep in mind that I live in China and things like this are extremely limited in variety. It also doesn't help that I don't speak the language.

So, I ask all you pedal experts, what is available on your side of the world and please include prices. Yes, I know I could do a google search but google doesn't have experience with using pedals.

Fritz

Enforcer572005
08-16-2005, 12:05 AM
I fly in my socks.......well, I have been known to do other stuff in them as well, but that's another subject .... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

anyhoot, I couldnt fly this thing with shoes on if I had to.....(there's a pun-analogy there somewhere).I cant feel the things through my shoes (a universal truth that apparently applies to all sorts of things). http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

I have no idea what the prices are these days,but Check the CH website for what they have. I think they are among the most reliable and useful products. Keep in mind that it is best to have peddals (in most cases) that match your stick manufacturer...Im not familiar with how well mixing stuff like this works. Ch has an inexpensive basic set of pedals, but I have no ideal what they cost.

Interesting that you live in China.....dont worry about not speaking the language, as about half the people who live here in the US can't speak the blasted language either. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

Kuna15
08-16-2005, 12:11 AM
Hey; Fritz there's no feckin way that your shoe size is that big!!! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

Mine are 42/43/44, depends on the manufacturer, it is usually 43. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Kuna15
08-16-2005, 12:13 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by geetarman:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Pirschjaeger:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Kuna15:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">The more I read the more I think it's not so much the twisty stick, rather the twisty Evo. Seems there are a few twisty users who have no problem. I have never used anything but. Is anyone else using the Evo?

Fritz </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You will, most probably, continue to be frustrated until you pony up the dough for some rudder pedals. After 2 months of using them, and adjusting the settings, I've been able to "dial" out 85% of the yaw and pitch problems in most planes. The pedals allow you greater sensitivity in the ability to control the plane.

Fritz I'm using EVO, and I can still hold on my own against 'green' players. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif
But I don't fly much online these days...

It is harder to aim now, no doubt about it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Kuna,

I'm wondering if you have the same results. It seems there's a fairly long delay in reaction from the rudder. When I twist the stick I must wait a short time for the plane to react. Then, it's as if the rudder was stuck and suddenly came free, thus wobbling the plane like crazy.

I checked the dead band settings and it's not that. Please use your Evo, offline, and try this with the 190a4 and a5. The Corsair and P-51 also had a mean wobble. I'd like to know if we have the same results.

Fritz </div></BLOCKQUOTE> </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


rotfl

Pirschjaeger
08-16-2005, 12:21 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Kuna15:
Hey; Fritz there's no feckin way that your shoe size is that big!!! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

Mine are 42/43/44, depends on the manufacturer, it is usually 43. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Consider yourself lucky. Buying shoes is such a hassle. Last month I was in Deichmann's in Germany. Even their choices were very limited.

I can't buy shoes here in China. The biggest size is 45 and even those are rare. In the Russian markets I can find shoes, but, well, you know, Russian fashion and all. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

The worst was when I was 12 years old and joined the Sea Cadets. My feet were size 12.5 at that time. I was only 5 feet tall. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

Mickey mouse and I shared the same pain. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/cry.gif

Fritz http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Pirschjaeger
08-16-2005, 12:25 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Enforcer572005:
I fly in my socks.......well, I have been known to do other stuff in them as well, but that's another subject .... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

anyhoot, I couldnt fly this thing with shoes on if I had to.....(there's a pun-analogy there somewhere).I cant feel the things through my shoes (a universal truth that apparently applies to all sorts of things). http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

I have no idea what the prices are these days,but Check the CH website for what they have. I think they are among the most reliable and useful products. Keep in mind that it is best to have peddals (in most cases) that match your stick manufacturer...Im not familiar with how well mixing stuff like this works. Ch has an inexpensive basic set of pedals, but I have no ideal what they cost.

Interesting that you live in China.....dont worry about not speaking the language, as about half the people who live here in the US can't speak the blasted language either. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Half of them are from China. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

Fritz

thefarb2
08-16-2005, 01:11 AM
I fly 3.04, wheather any one likes it or not. how long do you think they can drag this game along? 3.04, that's how long.

Pirschjaeger
08-16-2005, 02:17 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by thefarb2:
I fly 3.04, wheather any one likes it or not. how long do you think they can drag this game along? 3.04, that's how long. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Until BoB.

Fritz

Kuna15
08-16-2005, 03:53 AM
I will second that Fritz. Also I believe that I will play this game for quite some time after BoB comes out.

darkhorizon11
08-16-2005, 11:51 AM
I have the same problem Crash. I think its the joystick though, my Logitech is wearing out its welcome. One of my buddys who quit playing is supposed to sell me his Saitek (barely touched) stick with throttle for like 50 bucks when I get back home, I can't wait to try that thing out.

Problem is that won't be until around December... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

FoolTrottel
08-16-2005, 02:25 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">So, I ask all you pedal experts, what is available on your side of the world and please include prices. Yes, I know I could do a google search but google doesn't have experience with using pedals. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm not a pedal expert, but the things I use can be easily adapted to fit your shoe size ....
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v668/fooltrottel/Rudder1a.jpg

(I guess there's some choice in construcion material in China? And you could always get a cheap joystick?)

Have Fun!