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View Full Version : Corkscrew - a good evasive tactic for bombers



VO1-VC
01-29-2005, 07:31 AM
Bombers get jumped all the time - here is something that may help you survive an encounter - check out the Corkscrew.

http://www.valourandhorror.com/BC/Tactics/Corkscrew.htm

A) If the fighter attacks from the port side, the bomber pilot banks at 45 and dives to port at full throttle.

B) After descending for about 300m. (1,OOOft) the pilot starts climbing. He is still turning to port.

C) Halfway through the climb he banks to starboard, but continues to climb. This reduces his speed sharply which sometimes induces the attacking fighter to overshoot.

D) After regaining the same altitude, and while still turning to starboard, the pilot starts another dive.

E) He descends half the distance of the previous dive, then turns to port.

F) If the pilot has not shaken off the fighter, he can repeat the manoeuvre.

Source: Cross, R., The Bomber(London, 1987).

nearmiss
01-29-2005, 08:03 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VO1-VC:
Bombers get jumped all the time - here is something that may help you survive an encounter - check out the Corkscrew.

http://www.valourandhorror.com/BC/Tactics/Corkscrew.htm

A) If the fighter attacks from the port side, the bomber pilot banks at 45 and dives to port at full throttle.

B) After descending for about 300m. (1,OOOft) the pilot starts climbing. He is still turning to port.

C) Halfway through the climb he banks to starboard, but continues to climb. This reduces his speed sharply which sometimes induces the attacking fighter to overshoot.

D) After regaining the same altitude, and while still turning to starboard, the pilot starts another dive.

E) He descends half the distance of the previous dive, then turns to port.

F) If the pilot has not shaken off the fighter, he can repeat the manoeuvre.

Source: Cross, R., The Bomber(London, 1987). <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Several things...

1. The slowing down bit makes it harder to get back to speed or altitude.

2. How does this work more than one fighter after you?

3. 300m is a lot of altitude to lose, even in increments.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif Oh! I forgot you are trying to stay alive. So anything you can do is better than flying straight and level.

FoolTrottel
01-29-2005, 08:22 AM
Watch the title on the Corkscrew Page (http://www.valourandhorror.com/BC/Tactics/Corkscrew.htm), it says 'Death by Moonlight'.

Mainly used by the RAF, on night bombing missions... corkscrew should make the nightfighter loose (visual) contact with it's target...

Mort-Fauchante
01-29-2005, 10:58 AM
With all due respect, nearmiss, yes, it is a difficult manoeuvre, but that's why it is a GREAT manoeuvre: once in a Corkscrew, there's no way for the fighter to aim at the bomber.

And yes, you can shake more than one fighter:

In the famous "porcupine incident", a Sunderland fought off eight Ju88 long-range fighters, and those guys corkscrewed for all they were worth.
The Sunderland made it back (with two casualties)
- five of the Ju88 did not...

But yeah, it's a strange move, that's for sure!

Happy hunting!

LMF

nearmiss
01-29-2005, 01:36 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mort-Fauchante:
With all due respect, nearmiss, yes, it is a difficult manoeuvre, but that's why it is a GREAT manoeuvre: once in a Corkscrew, there's no way for the fighter to aim at the bomber.

And yes, you can shake more than one fighter:

In the famous "porcupine incident", a Sunderland fought off eight Ju88 long-range fighters, and those guys corkscrewed for all they were worth.
The Sunderland made it back (with two casualties)
- five of the Ju88 did not...

But yeah, it's a strange move, that's for sure!

Happy hunting!

LMF <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Best defense for a bomber against fighters is an expert marksman "tailgunner". http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif even with all the cool moves... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

LStarosta
01-29-2005, 02:34 PM
What works against Ju88's at night isn't going to work against single engine fighters during the day.

Kupper
01-29-2005, 02:37 PM
This discussion reminded me of an excellent novel..."Yesterday's Gone", by N.J. Crisp. It concerns a Lancaster crew , and contains fantastic descriptions of the combat use of the "corkscrew" manoeuvre. Oh, and one of the main characters is the tail gunner. Originally published in 1983, it's probably out of print, but well worth tryin' to find.......

3.JG51_BigBear
01-29-2005, 02:55 PM
It's definitely a night fighter tactic. At night the size of the aircraft and the speed isn't as important as keeping your eye on the target. If your prey just lost 1000feet and is now flying in a cirle on a completely different heading you'll have one hell of a time finding him but during the day I think your screwed if you try to do this.

sunflower1
01-29-2005, 03:22 PM
In Korea the US used B-29's briefly. With the equivalent of the K-14 sight matched to a modern fire control computer they were helpless against Mig-15's.

Anything to complicate the firing solution is all you can do.

pourshot
01-29-2005, 03:36 PM
It's good to see poeple think about tactics, But the AI can make much more aggresive moves than that and still they cant survive. My point is a bomber is no fighter and even fighters get shot in turns.

Your best bet in a bomber is a tight formation and your snipper gunners, then all going well your fighter escort wont be far away http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

-HH-Dubbo
02-01-2005, 12:47 AM
I'm pretty sure the incident with the Sunderland took place during the day though....Bay of Biscay, if I'm not mistaken.

Here's an excerp from Ray Goode's (tail gunner) diary
"... one motor burnt out & the prop dropped off, the kite riddled with holes, elevators damaged, one chain on the rudder shot to pieces. Wireless US, a cannon shell exploded in it, instruments all US, even the Marine Distress Signals riddled (lucky they didn't explode). Still we made the English Coast good navigation by Ken Simpson, Astro Nav & a second compass, even though Ken had been wounded."

And they lost the engine in the first attack, so they were corkscrewing with 3 engines against these Ju88s

ImpStarDuece
02-01-2005, 02:21 AM
The Sunderland V 8 Ju-88's incident happened during the day. The Ju-88s were terrorising heavy bombers, convoys and shipping in the Bay of Biscay and general vicintiy. Generally doing an effective job of making life very hard for the Allies.

The Sunderland had a few home modifications like a couple of extra .303's in the port and starboard galley door and an extra .303 in the nose turret. It was crewed by Aussies and flew regular anti submaine partols.

It was attacked by 8 Ju-88s, destroying 3, very heavily damaging 2 others and battle damaging the remaining 3.

There is an amazing recount of the battle that was posted about a month and a half ago. Just fantastic the bravery of the Sunderland crew. 5 of them were injured and the Sunderland was a fying collander that they had to ditch in the sea after the battle.

Will do some digging.

ploughman
02-01-2005, 02:29 AM
I saw an interview with a Luftwaffe nightfighter ace, he was talking about an intercept he made over Berlin against a Lancaster. He was astonished when the Lancaster he was about to destroy performed a loop and disapeared into the night.

p1ngu666
02-01-2005, 07:24 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ploughman:
I saw an interview with a Luftwaffe nightfighter ace, he was talking about an intercept he made over Berlin against a Lancaster. He was astonished when the Lancaster he was about to destroy performed a loop and disapeared into the night. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

yep http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

ive never seen a 3d diagram like that, its a great help http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

it works against day fighters too, or did

mossie escaped the wrath of 262's by frantic corkscrewing http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

262's ran out of ammo, interestingly there shells exploded in front of the mossie, like a timed fuse... prolly so they dont destroy parts of berlin by accident http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

its a shame that the b25 isnt that chuckable, u can easily stall it http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

u could really hurl mossies and lancs about the sky tho http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

KG26_Alpha
02-01-2005, 07:52 AM
This simply does not work in IL2's Flight moddleling.

The aircraft dont fly like the old wartime aircraft.

They fly at maxiumum power and turn like they are on rails.

Remember back to last year with a old fighter pilot had a go at IL2 he was having to relax the stick settings to get a better "feel" as he rcalled his experiences.

Those settings had you working hard to get the aircraft where you wanted it, not like it is at the moment , just watch real WW2 aircraft flying around at an airshow the movents are slower and more graceful not this ful power rolling turning screaming all over the sky stuff you can do now.

So the corkscrew worked some of the time for the bombers and hevies in WW2.

But not in in IL2