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Sama51
08-12-2005, 03:07 PM
I just bought PF and when I fly my aircraft the controls feel mushy and somewhat unresponsive. When I move the stick, the control surfaces almost have a delayed movement. They will all move to the full deflection they are capable of and every where in between, but there is a delayed action with what movement being applied to the stick.

For example, if I quickly give full deflection to the elevator, in spot plane view, the elevator moves slowly twords full deflection, so there is a delay time between when I move my stick to full deflection and when the control surface actually reaches it. Or say if I'm rolling the plane with the ailerons and I let go of the stick to center, the ailerons do not snap back to the nuetral position, they move at a constant slower speed back twords the nuetral position as if I were gently moving the stick back to the center.

This all makes the response of the aircraft slower and feel very mushy, and with control surfaces being hooked up physically by wires mounted to the stick, I don't see how there could be delay time between where the stick is moved, and the time it takes the control surface to move there.

Can anyone give me a few suggestions on fixing/adjusting this?

-Thanks In Advanced

Sama51
08-12-2005, 03:07 PM
I just bought PF and when I fly my aircraft the controls feel mushy and somewhat unresponsive. When I move the stick, the control surfaces almost have a delayed movement. They will all move to the full deflection they are capable of and every where in between, but there is a delayed action with what movement being applied to the stick.

For example, if I quickly give full deflection to the elevator, in spot plane view, the elevator moves slowly twords full deflection, so there is a delay time between when I move my stick to full deflection and when the control surface actually reaches it. Or say if I'm rolling the plane with the ailerons and I let go of the stick to center, the ailerons do not snap back to the nuetral position, they move at a constant slower speed back twords the nuetral position as if I were gently moving the stick back to the center.

This all makes the response of the aircraft slower and feel very mushy, and with control surfaces being hooked up physically by wires mounted to the stick, I don't see how there could be delay time between where the stick is moved, and the time it takes the control surface to move there.

Can anyone give me a few suggestions on fixing/adjusting this?

-Thanks In Advanced

FoolTrottel
08-12-2005, 04:16 PM
Hi, and Welcome!

this could be caused by many things!
Like what stick you are using, what hardware you are using it on.

Me thinks, for starters:
Check the sensitivity settings in Hardware Setup, Input.
You can check if the responses of your stick are maybe toned down, and you can adjust them for each axis of movement as you like.

(Mind you, this in-game function will only work if your stick is listed as the first controller in Control Panel, Game Controllers. If your stick is not the first controller, then you'll either have to edit the file conf.ini manually, or use a tool that I just made: Look here (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/23110283/m/9841036443))

Either way, you might want to read Tully's guide on sticks (http://www.airwarfare.com/tech/sticks.htm) to understand how it all works.

If this does not fix it, you might want to post this in Community Help Forum (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/ubb.x?a=frm&s=400102&f=49310655), and do include a DxDiag Report (http://www.airwarfare.com/guides/luckyboys_guide.htm#012) there.

Good Luck!

Stackhouse25th
08-12-2005, 04:30 PM
ODDS are your stick needs reconfiguration/calibration

Sama51
08-12-2005, 04:48 PM
I just calbirated it and everything seems to be in order.

I just don't want to think there is a problem when the game has naturally mushy controls..

FoolTrottel
08-12-2005, 04:57 PM
Now I'm a bit confused.

Did you get it fixed as in 'Everything seems to seems to be in order' ?

NonWonderDog
08-12-2005, 09:03 PM
The mushiness is probably just your stick settings. Normally movement near the center of your joystick's travel is scaled way down. This is nothing to do with reality, it just makes it easier to fly with a short-throw joystick.

You might want to boost your joystick settings a bit. Instead of the default 10 20 30 40 ... 100 you might want to try something more like 25 35 50 70 85 85 85 90 95 100 for the x and y axes. I kind of like that kind of setup, but you should tweak to your own liking. If you set it to 100 all across the board and it's still mushy, something is very wrong with your controls.

A high "filter" setting will also make your controls feel very mushy and unresponsive.

Sama51
08-12-2005, 10:51 PM
I set them all to 100 just to see what it would do, it was more responsive but there was still the very slight delay, it took a small amount of time for the surfaces to reach the same deflection as my stick. The surfaces and my stick are not moving at the same speed I guess is a clearer way to put it. I would assume that when I move my stick to a certain deflection the surfaces would reach that same deflection almost instataneously, but they don't, they move twords the deflection at a constant rate. I appologize if this isn't described clearly.

I calbirated my joystick and its working fine as far as respone, but the controls are still the same. I just thought maybe this was a natural charecteristic of the Sim.

By the by, I'm using the standalone product with the latest patch, would there be a difference if I had FB and AEP installed?

IL2-chuter
08-13-2005, 01:28 AM
I think this is normal. I noticed the delayed movement some time ago, though I can't say I detect any control delay while flying. I do agree it seems a bit odd to F2 the plane on the ramp, whip the stick around and watch the "flippers" lag along like they do, but, like I said before, it really doesn't seem to effect flight characteristics. It may be more of a graphical thingy. (Totally shootin' in the dark here.)


http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Sama51
08-13-2005, 02:12 AM
Perhaps so, but is it normal to let the stick return to normal, and the aircraft still be manuvering in that direction?

For example, if your were rolling to the right and let off the stick, would it be normal for the roll to slowly discipateand stop, or should it imeediately stop rolling when the stick is realeased and return to nuetral?

Sama51
08-13-2005, 03:19 AM
I did some more observing, and there is a delay between when I move the stick and the aircraft and game itself responds. It is a very brief delay, I'm assuming somewhere around a quarter of a second. When I move the stick about a quarter of a second will pass before the controls make movements, this is also whats causing it to keep manuvering slightly when I release the stick. I figured it was the nature of the sim, but when i release the stick, there is that tiny delay before the aircraft responds, so if i were rolling for example and release the stick, there is a tiny delay in which the plane keeps manuvering before it responds. Like stated, it is a very brief delay, but it still has the feeling of not flying in real time. Its ackward to move the stick and the response of the plane lag just a hair behind my movements.

I'm hoping that offered a better description of the problem. I also calbirated my stick, when I calbirated it responded perfectly in real time without the tiny delay I experience when I fly.

FoolTrottel
08-13-2005, 04:11 AM
Yes, there is a small delay, when flipping the stick the controls react a tiny bit later.
This has always been this way, just checked IL2 Sturmovik, and it does the same thing.

I'm not sure if it's a problem though.
Mind you, flipping yer joystick is always much faster and easier than moving a control column in a plane! So, this could have been programmed this way in order to make it 'realistic'?

So, me thinks this is a design feature! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif
(This is the how programmers easily fix any problem or bug! And I tend to think in a programmers way ...)

Have fun!

Tully__
08-13-2005, 04:23 AM
1. There is a delay built into the game on all control surfaces.

2. If you have any filtering set, remove it. It adds to the delay.

Sama51
08-13-2005, 12:13 PM
Ah, ok thanks guys. I assumed that there was a good chance it was just a charecteristic of the sim, but wanted to be sure.

Bearcat99
08-13-2005, 06:28 PM
What kind of stick do you use?

FritzGryphon
08-13-2005, 10:04 PM
I concur, the surfaces have a built in delay. Probably to prevent the surfaces from jittering or flicking rapidly around.

The actual response, though, seems to be instantaneous. Unless you're using filtering (don't).

There will be an inherent mushiness in the sim, simply because it models accelerative forces. Ie. when you roll the plane, it'll take a moment to accelerate to maximum roll. Same with pitch and yaw. It'll be more noticable on some planes, and less in others. This 'inertia' is present even if you're using the keyboard controls.

This might be disorienting to someone new to the sim.

Sama51
08-14-2005, 12:59 AM
Ok, I went and tried it again and compared the stick to the keyboard. When I just tap the key to roll, it is instataneous, the moment i flick the key there is an almost instant tiny jerk in the aircraft. Where as with the stick if I flick it, there is a slight amount of lag time, it isn't as instaneous as the keys. If I holdthe key down, the virtual stick in the cockpit snaps in that direction, or if i tap the key, the stick will flick over in that firection. If I flick my stick quickly, the virtual stick doesn't move as rapidly as it did with the keys. The virtual follows slightly behind the movements f my stick and a little less rapidly, if that gives a clearer picture, not the instant response that the keys give.

-By the by, with the keys I noticed the accleration of rolling your talking about, thats not whats causing the mushiness, it like theres a tiny delay before it picks up my stick has been moved and then the game responds and begins accelerating in to the roll.

Is it normal for the keys to feel more sensitive, responsive, and snappy than the stick? It's not a horribly long delay or anything and I appologize for nagging, but I just don't want to be flying with a handicap or slightly less responsive controls when it can be fixed.

I am using a Saitek X45.

Thanks for the help everyone.

FritzGryphon
08-14-2005, 02:29 AM
Hm, that is weird. I've got the same stick, and with default settings, it should be jerky, not mushy.

If you go the the Input settings, does the stick position cursor lag there too? You say it doesn't lag in the calibration screen.

Also, you're sure there's no filtering set? This is the only thing I could imagine is causing this.

Sama51
08-14-2005, 02:41 AM
From what i remember no, but I'm reinstalling both the game and Saitek drivers right now. I'm using the drivers off the CD, not the site.

So there should be no delay, not even a very small one, between when I make a movement and the aircraft starts to respond?

No filtering at all.