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j3pilot
09-17-2005, 11:32 PM
Just wanted to tell anyone who is thinking about purchasing this magnificient pile of poop to not waste your money. I've got a pretty fast rig and I can't get past the opening menu screen without an error message that kicks me out of the game. I don't think Oleg has a thing to worry about as far as competition with IL-2/FB/PF goes. And I'm sure that his version of BoB will at least WORK. 40 dollars US - *POOF* - gone in a puff of smoke - for NOTHING.

j3pilot
09-17-2005, 11:32 PM
Just wanted to tell anyone who is thinking about purchasing this magnificient pile of poop to not waste your money. I've got a pretty fast rig and I can't get past the opening menu screen without an error message that kicks me out of the game. I don't think Oleg has a thing to worry about as far as competition with IL-2/FB/PF goes. And I'm sure that his version of BoB will at least WORK. 40 dollars US - *POOF* - gone in a puff of smoke - for NOTHING.

msalama
09-17-2005, 11:50 PM
Hmm... I think I'll wait for the bugfix to come out before really deciding anything...

j3pilot
09-18-2005, 12:35 AM
It's going to have to be one HELL of a patch. The GMX forums are flooded with people who can't get the game to run at all or have major problems with it. NOTHING like FB/PF where a few people had driver issues or copy protection errors. We are talking about over 75% of the people who bought it are having issues. That in my mind is unacceptable. Even 25% is far too high. I wasn't expecting perfection, but for Heaven's sake at least have the game start up. I'm a tech who knows how to maximize PC performance and I also know how to tweak and troubleshoot, but I'll be ****ed if I can get this thing past the menu screen.
The screenshots and videos of the game had my full attention - I was very impressed. However, looks can be deceiving. This is the original Rowan BOB all over again, with (supposedly) updated graphics. Since I've already spent the money I will wait for the patch (which will probably be a whole CD worth to fix everything to playable condition). I just feel duped into acting as a beta tester for a product that is (at best) in a very unpolished condition. I'm getting off my soapbox now.

msalama
09-18-2005, 01:09 AM
Man, I _DO_ understand your anger, and of course this kind of behaviour from GMX/Shockwave is totally unacceptable. But I'm nevertheless _still_ interested in this game, because it _does_ promise a lot even in its present condition!

Which means that I'm going to act as follows:

1) Wait for the patch.
2) Check out the reactions to it.

AND EITHER:

3) Possibly wait some more.
4) Pick it up from the cheapo bin.

OR:

3) Forget about it.

Now, I do feel sorry for those unfortunate folks who bought the game straight away, and yes, it seems that they got swindled pretty bad http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif But I'm _still_ interested in the possibility of picking the game up later if it gets fixed!

And once more, I do understand your justified anger. But that _still_ doesn't refrain me from being interested ANYWAY, y'know?

msalama
09-18-2005, 01:13 AM
...but yep, pretty f**king bad manners from the companies involved there nevertheless http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

NL_snake_eye_NL
09-18-2005, 02:31 AM
HI

I got 2 problems with bob2.

1: it sometimes crashes to desktop, but not much.

2: I cant take off normaly cause it,s hard! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

Think that i am lucky with only that problem.
And i think that uncle oleg spoiled us with the il2 serries, it's just a great game! I play much flightsims but always return to il2 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Greetz Snake Eye

Nitrous_DM
09-18-2005, 02:43 AM
Hi,

Mine seems to run fine as soon as i installed it.

Don't get me wrong the aircraft and the sounds that go with them are great. But the graphics on the sky, water and landscape are just so basic.

To sum it up, I am an avid FB+AEP+PF player. I installed BoB2 WoV played it for about 10-15mins, then unistalled it.

At the end of the day its still the BoB (Rowans) engine, so i was not shocked when i first played it.

Fighterduck
09-18-2005, 03:51 AM
it's an horrible game! I was lucky to test it on another PC...very lucky! It's a pice of ****! Can't beat Il2 series at all...i don't tell this because i'm an il2 fan...I thought this was finally a new step sim....wrong! Horrible!

msalama
09-18-2005, 03:56 AM
Oh yeah, checked out the SimHq & Shockwave forums just now. FWIW, the developers swear on their forefathers' graves to get the thing fixed ASAP, so maybe all hope's not lost just yet?

But I think this whole brouhaha alludes to gross errors in project management. Or maybe they just plain out lie - I mean, plenty of folks suffering from CTDs & low FPSs and they're telling ppl they didn't notice _anything_ during testing??? Or maybe they found out that they CAN'T get it fixed & having already missed all their deadlines just decided to release it as it is?

But maybe, just maybe, they _still_ get it sorted out. One can always hope...

PS. I'd love to know the percentage of users having problems with this game. Majority? Minority?

Asgeir_Strips
09-18-2005, 04:47 AM
I downloaded it http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

I was considering buying it since the campaing is so much better than the Oleg Maddox series flight sim will ever be, and The sky is also much better than IL2 and The sounds can't even be compared to IL2- In IL2 the engines sounds like lawnmowers.

In BoB II : WoV they sound like Real Merlin XX's and DB601 engines.. But the Land graphics is horrible, the water is okay though.. I haven't played it too much that i can have a say about the Flight Model..

But there are several glitches that needs ironing out, before i buy it thats for sure..

So for now, i'll play neither IL2 or BoB II, because both games have serious amounts of flaws in them that makes them not fun to play imho.

Chuck_Older
09-18-2005, 05:52 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Asgeir_Strips:
I downloaded it http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

I was considering buying it since the campaing is so much better than the Oleg Maddox series flight sim will ever be,.

So for now, i'll play neither IL2 or BoB II, because both games have serious amounts of flaws in them that makes them not fun to play imho. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

'For ever' is a long time

You don't play 'Il2' and you still post here? I'm sure it's so you can still give a fair unbiased view of the sim, right? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

John_Stag
09-18-2005, 06:59 AM
Cuts both ways; "J3Pilot" has up to this point made exacly two posts on this forum; apparrently he only came here to **** off WoV.

Funny though; never had any of the problems he's had (though I do have some which I believe will be rectified by Shockwave in the usual "two weeks"), but I would expect him to post over on Shockwave's forum to see if anyone could help him out, but he doesn't appear to be registered over there, at least under the name J3pilot. Leads me to wonder if his main gripe isn't with the game at all, but he has some other personal agenda.

For me, I've played it alongside PF for the past week and I can tell you this; if Shockwave does solve the immediate problems, Then 1C has some serious competition. You won't see this if you install the game, mess around for a couple of hours and leave it. You need to get into it, and you will find it's more than worth it. But that's just my opinion. I'm not going to tell you to rush out and buy it; I'm not going to dump on PF, because I play that as well.

I will tell you to beware of semi-anonymous posters who are long on rhetoric but short on details.

That's all I've got to say.

msalama
09-18-2005, 09:39 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">if Shockwave does solve the immediate problems, Then 1C has some serious competition. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Good to hear this. Great!

So I'll just remain interested for the time being & wait for the patch & go buy it then, aye?

John_Stag
09-18-2005, 09:57 AM
I'll let you know. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Grey_Mouser67
09-18-2005, 10:20 AM
The origninal game suffered from instability and such and I thought all that was addressed.

These posts and the issues tell me they never solved them and if they didn't solve them while in development, I don't think it will be likely that they will solve them with a patch anytime soon....CFS3 still runs like dog doo doo on my rig too..after years...this sounds sooo much like that.

Ruy Horta
09-18-2005, 10:29 AM
When WoV was announced it looked like something interesting. When they showed the detailed work on the Emil it looked attractive. When they posted screenshots of evening skies I was tempted.

An in depth campaign and all that promise, but then it started.

1. no multiplay, AT ALL
2. only revamped engine of original (very old) BoB game.
3. obsolete ground graphics
4. some old a/c models ported (like Defiant)
5. GMX introducing bugs

My pre-ordered copy from Play.com went back unopened. I am not risking this one...

Even if Maddox will manage to pass another "flat style" IL2 game, we'll know that at least the basic combat sim and online side will be (extremely) well done.

If only Maddox would try and create an indepth campaign engine it would be bliss (but I am not holding my breath on that one, simply not a strong track record when it comes to that side of the games he's made).

Otherwise...one of the few must haves for me.

Battle of Britain, or whatever Maddox & Co will decide to call their new milk cow!!

jamesdietz
09-18-2005, 10:48 AM
Maybe a patch will help out the FPS & CTD issues & maybe then running a campaign will be fun& doing all the customizing controls that is required worthwhile,BUT I don't believe they will be able to solve the object lighting problems that seem to be inherent in the game engine.Lighting inside & outside the aircraft seems to be always filtered by clouds...like you are in perpetual shadow.There is very little of the changing of light intensity & source so prevelent inside say a FW-190 cockpit in FB/PF...& the color of the aircraft themselves is very dull...esp. noticable in the Bf-109s yellow nose which looks very low intensity , low saturation yellow on even the brightest day.Going back to FB?PF is like literally going from night to day in almost all respects,visually ( check out the views from inside the Ju-87 & Bf-110 too..They are so much better in FB/PF & you get a gunner!Oh & soon a flyable JU-88!)I have a 2 copies of this game & it is definately sidelined until patch fix, but even then ( with exception of sound) it is a poor relation to Oleg's work....

SeaFireLIV
09-18-2005, 03:09 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by j3pilot:
It's going to have to be one HELL of a patch. The GMX forums are flooded with people who can't get the game to run at all or have major problems with it. NOTHING like FB/PF where a few people had driver issues or copy protection errors. We are talking about over 75% of the people who bought it are having issues. That in my mind is unacceptable. Even 25% is far too high. I wasn't expecting perfection, but for Heaven's sake at least have the game start up. I'm a tech who knows how to maximize PC performance and I also know how to tweak and troubleshoot, but I'll be ****ed if I can get this thing past the menu screen.
The screenshots and videos of the game had my full attention - I was very impressed. However, looks can be deceiving. This is the original Rowan BOB all over again, with (supposedly) updated graphics. Since I've already spent the money I will wait for the patch (which will probably be a whole CD worth to fix everything to playable condition). I just feel duped into acting as a beta tester for a product that is (at best) in a very unpolished condition. I'm getting off my soapbox now. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


So funny.
I remember when BOBII was about to be released, Oleg-bashers were already using it to criticise FB and make FB look as if it was rubbish. So strange to see the reactions of these people now... A greater appreciation for Oleg`s FB/PF? Less whining perhaps?

Because once the IL2\FB\PF whining was every bit as vehement as it gets on the Shockwave forum, I remember it well. The gem that was IL2 was there, but so many refused to see it, man did I see some ridiculous stuff from open letters like, "Oleg is a former communist, so he doesn`t know how to do a proper flight sim" to ,"he should be ashamed to produce aircraft like those in FB\IL2". I saved some of these comments because they were priceless in their outrageous accusations.

Shockwave hasn`t quite received this level of complaint... yet. For the unfair comments Oleg got, Shockwave have really got off lucky.


That said. BOBII was never meant to be on a level with Oleg`s FB, I knew this weeks before the sim was released by simply reading up on the details and checking the gameplay. I was simply interested in the multitude of aircraft involved and the offline Campaign and the fact it`s over the one theatre FB doesn`t have -ENGLAND!

If I had wanted an Oleg-beater I wouldn`t have touched BOBII. Now that I (and many others) have sorted out most of the CTD problems the sim`s beginning to show what it`s got - and it`s a lot. Like all good sims, you need to get in it and run it rather than a knee-jerk first look.

Your game isn`t starting up? Perhaps you have a copy of nero or some other CD\DVD copier on your PC. Try uninstalling it...

Oh and I`ll admit, BOBII is as buggy as heck with CTDs that affect some more than others. Thankfully, we`re finally sorting then out... (yes, it looks like I became an unpaid beta-tester). The Patch out soon should solve this permanently.

I doubt you`ll try, it seems like your mind`s already made up.

ICDP
09-18-2005, 04:08 PM
I think PF is a technically outstanding sim, the problem is that the gameplay is not up to the technical aspects. The stock offline campaigns are very sterile and uninteresting, the feeling of immerssion is just very lacking. Don't get me wrong I have had some excellent missions offline but the overall campaign structure is not that immersive.

It is for this reason that I bought BoBII, I had the original and remembered how great the campaign and immerssion were. Now it has updated graphics and the gameplay is as great as ever. The AI interaction is far better than PF and the feeling of being part of a massive air battle is done better. The feeling of going against 120 Bf109's with 40+ Spitfires and Hurricanes is one of awe and apprehension. Listening to the almost constant radio chatter from friendly AI gives a feeling of great immerssion.

There are aspects of BoBII that are done much better than in PF (but that works both ways). The point is I can see the good parts of both of these sims and hopefully Oleg and 1C will evaluate all the competion for ideas to incorporate into his future projects. To dissmiss a sim out of hand completely due to blinkered fanboyism is a massive injustice.

BoBII does have serious CTD issues for a lot of people but quite a few others are having minor or no issues at all (luckily mine is running very stable). The guys at shockwave have assured us they will fix the problems and I believe them.

In the meantime I am very happy to have both sims on my HD.

ashley2005
09-18-2005, 04:17 PM
the only sims allowed on my hd is pf and lockon ..and falcon 4.0 allied force next friday when its released in uk :P.. i fed bob 2 to my dog ..rowans bob 1 with patches is better than 2 .. but the best prop sim is still pf and always will be till the almighty BOB http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif praise be to oleg

VVaFFenPanZZeR
09-18-2005, 04:35 PM
So should we buy it or no, I'll buy it just to mess around with it.

LEXX_Luthor
09-18-2005, 06:10 PM
I am buying it when it comes to our stores, and when I get into city -- a very long drive. The buggs are slowly being fixed even before the Patch, and it may be related to each gamer's Windows setups (to be expected if Betty Testers failed to find major problems). But, was not original Rowan BoB made for Win98?

Shockwave is the first western WW2 combat flight sim maker to take the first baby steps after Microsoft killed off the western developers. As long as Shockwave can stay independent of Microsoft, I will buy BoB2, and hopefully if successful they can code a flight sim from scratch...the ShockWave Team is smaller than Oleg's and I think they have day jobs!!! Also...they are willing to talk on their forum (for how long I don't know http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif).

SeaFire:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I remember when BOBII was about to be released, Oleg-bashers were already using it to criticise FB and make FB look as if it was rubbish. So strange to see the reactions of these people now... A greater appreciation for Oleg`s FB/PF? Less whining perhaps?... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Its more than you think. Recall all the "open source" trolls from other sims that bashed the boards here demanding Oleg to "open" his sim, even to releace his source code. They are silent now...

why....?

After BoB2 releace, an enourmous but muffled bombshell went off at Shockwave forum -- Shockwave is closing down independent 3rd Party aircraft modding and most likely map modding for BoB2 -- for the exact same technical reasons as Oleg. Aircraft FM is buried in the Rowan source code and BoB2 maps are "too hard" to make. The point here is...the "open source" trolls are now Betrayed not by just Communist Oleg (in Russia) but by the most well known independent 3rd Party aircraft modding group -- Shockwave (in Ussia). I am laughing at the trolls, but crying for the independent 3rd Party modding community. None of the "open source" trolls were modders--you could tell by their diaper rash behavior.

SeaFireLIV
09-18-2005, 06:24 PM
So true, Lexx.

GT182
09-18-2005, 07:58 PM
VVaFFenPanZZeR, BOB2 looks good but ground graphics are not the same as IL2's FB. FMs are harder but that's because they are a bit more real it seems. In other words, you want to have your sh*t togeter for takeoffs and landings. The aircraft looks are amazing along with the "real" engine sounds. Cockpit controls for starting engines are clickable in the cockpits... nice touch. Get a checklist tho. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif And the Tracker vectoring software works nicely.

The only downside, I'd say, would be no multiplayer.

LEXX_Luthor
09-18-2005, 08:27 PM
The multiplayer I'd like to see is 2 player -- each player making the RAF and Luftwaffe campaign decisions and whether or not they meet in the air or fly missions at the same time or even fly at all does not matter. Basically, a 2 player strategery game.

Rowan's Battle of Britain Campaign Strategy Guide by Ken "KC23" Cook
~~&gt; http://www.simhq.com/simhq3/sims/features/bob_strat/

This wepage was created for original BoB1, but BoB2 uses the same campaign. Shockwave did not touch this part of the code.

Luftwaffe_109
09-18-2005, 08:28 PM
This game certainly makes you appreciate Oleg's sim, that's for sure...

ICDP
09-19-2005, 01:27 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Luftwaffe_109:
This game certainly makes you appreciate Oleg's sim, that's for sure... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree 100%

It makes you appreciate how poor the offline dynamic campaigns are in the IL2 series.

Chivas
09-19-2005, 01:40 AM
I'm trying to like BOB WOV but it isn't easy.

The airial combat is difficult. Realistic...I'm not so sure with the enemy aircraft being able to brake then excelerate very quickly out of effective gun range. This may be my problem until I learn to fly this flight model properly.

The only immersive quality I've found so far is the radio chat, and well done cloud formations. Some of the sounds are great but are totally unrealistic. Hearing your bullets hit enemy aircraft gives me a laugh.

cow_9th
09-19-2005, 04:13 AM
to be honest i was appaled such a shoddy product could be released for money.

the campaign was all that made this barely playable all those years ago, and honestly little if nothing has changed.

sounds, gfx, flight, models general playability and stability, just downright poor.

its campaign is alright of course but the games just so far below average i would bother, especially if you own the original, you will be hard pushed to notice a difference.
niether game holds up to falcon 4.0 AF or lomac 1.1 and even with il2s lousy campaigns the missions are just far more enjoyable.

at least i feel like im flying something of this earth in il2 even if the game does bore me now to the point where i dont play it anymore, i would fire up il2 long before i touched upon what is little less than a piece of gaming history

for a start i only recall about 2 crashes ever in all the time playing il2, most ppl can count themselves lucky to get through a flight in bob without an error of some description.

pitty it could have been so much more.

GT182
09-19-2005, 02:24 PM
Cow, LW-109, Chivas, ICDP if your so dissatisfied then go over to Shockwave and say something, instead of behind their backs. No sense beating around the bush, do it there so they can read firsthand what you have to say.

Cow, maybe they'd give you the job of doing it better, if you could. You seem to know more than they do. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

Here's the link.... http://shockwaveproductions.com/forum/index.php

B16Enk
09-19-2005, 02:43 PM
I've been lurking on the shockwave forums a fair bit, made the odd post there too.

Didn't get the impression that WoV was problematic for everyone as on poster put it:

'most people don't even know the forums exist, those that do are the one's with the problems that want help'. Pretty accurate I'd say.

Why am I defending WoV on a 1C:Maddox forum?

Because this is a genre we hold dear, competition between developers can only benefit us. Think about it!

My personal experience of WoV?

Had a few 'English Text' CTDs, got my bob.exe replaced because the copy protection rarely let me run it.
Since then I have had a single CTD, without 'English Text'.
Probably because I did what I always do, run it at my desktop res (1600x1200@75Hz) all settings at max.
I'm enjoying it, the AI flight model is a little screwy but it's good training for PF merged http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

One thing is for sure, TiR with Vector is amazing, just discovered the head roll now (I'm a biker sans bike and I naturally tilt my head when banking - now I can do it in the sim!!).

And the engine sounds, AA and bombs http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Olegs BoB is going to be a real treat http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Bongokid
09-19-2005, 02:50 PM
Well i have been the happy owner of IL2+AEP+PF for about one year and have enjoyed BOB WoW for now 2 weeks.

Putting aside the CTD and FPS problems for WoW, which i don't have at all, and flight models, about which i'm no expert, here's my observation so far.

I like both games very much and both have imo their strong and weak points. Some examples :

i love the low level flight sensations in IL2, the speed sensations and the rush out of ground attacks, and the fact that you see bits (sometime whole wings) of enemy planes going off when you shoot at them. I also like the fact that i've nerver seen any graphical glitch of any kind since i installed it.

In BOB2 there are plenty of little glitches, and the ground looks so so from under 100 feet but its really beautifull, almost to the point of photorealism, up high; and the clouds are a gem; and there's the dynamic campaign. Maybe the strongest point in WoW for me is the sensation of reality, confusion and almost panic that this sim provoques when you try to sort out friends from foes in big engagements in a poor weather. there a kind of grimness, or toughness, in WoW that makes it feel real.

In the end i think both sims are a must for any flight simming enthousiast.

Bongokid

ICDP
09-19-2005, 03:05 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by GT182:
Cow, LW-109, Chivas, ICDP if your so dissatisfied then go over to Shockwave and say something, instead of behind their backs. No sense beating around the bush, do it there so they can read firsthand what you have to say.

Cow, maybe they'd give you the job of doing it better, if you could. You seem to know more than they do. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

Here's the link.... http://shockwaveproductions.com/forum/index.php </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If you re-read my posts you will see that I have been defending BoBII from the fanbois who decree that it is awfull because it isn't PF.

My post in reply to Luftwaffe is called sarcasm and was indeed a dig at the poor offline campaigns in PF.

Chivas
09-19-2005, 05:02 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by GT182:
Cow, LW-109, Chivas, ICDP if your so dissatisfied then go over to Shockwave and say something, instead of behind their backs. No sense beating around the bush, do it there so they can read firsthand what you have to say.

Cow, maybe they'd give you the job of doing it better, if you could. You seem to know more than they do. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

Here's the link.... http://shockwaveproductions.com/forum/index.php </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm still testing BOB WOV and so far think its a very unstable piece of software. If someone is on a tight budget it may be a good idea to pass on BOB WOV atleast until its patched. The boys at Shockwave have enough people posting their displeasure that I'm not adding mine at this time. If you don't like it......tough.

GT182
09-19-2005, 05:30 PM
ICDP, then I read your post wrong, my appology to you.

Chivas, if you can't complain where it would do the most good then don't complain at all. As there are those over there that can't get BOB2 to run without problems, there are far more that have it running with no problems, or a very few minor problems at least. The majority that are having troubles are in the UK and their copies of BOB2 came from GMax, not Shockwave. But, if you'd have read thru the BOB2 forums at Shockwave, you'd have known that. If YOU don't like it ...tough.

SeaFireLIV
09-19-2005, 05:55 PM
I think the end of CTDs(or at least greatly reduced) and a chance to appreciate WOV for what`s it`s really worth is very soon to happen. Yes, indeed...


Keep an eye on the Shockwave forums...

lkemling
09-19-2005, 06:38 PM
Having had WoV since its NA release and listening to the advice given over at the SW forum and implmenting it find that now CTDs which were my only real problem are pretty much behind me.Doesn't mean they couldn't happen,just that I've kind of learned how to control them.....i think'heh.

Chivas
09-19-2005, 07:07 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by GT182:
ICDP, then I read your post wrong, my appology to you.

Chivas, if you can't complain where it would do the most good then don't complain at all. As there are those over there that can't get BOB2 to run without problems, there are far more that have it running with no problems, or a very few minor problems at least. The majority that are having troubles are in the UK and their copies of BOB2 came from GMax, not Shockwave. But, if you'd have read thru the BOB2 forums at Shockwave, you'd have known that. If YOU don't like it ...tough. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have the Shockwave copy... it CTD constantly. I have every other major flight sim and a high end PC with absolutely no problems. I have been following the progress of BOB WOV from the beginning and thru its release. Its quite obvious to everyone but you there are inherent problems with the sim, which they are in the process of trying to fix. If you think that the majority of BOB WOV users are having no problems you are sadly mistaken.

j3pilot
09-19-2005, 09:46 PM
First of all, to John Stag, I am posting under this name because the forums for some reason no longer recognize the password on my regular account DHC2Pilot. I am a LONG time fan of the IL-2 series, and yes, I have posted here numerous times. No offense taken.

I did post on the GMX forums, however I haven't received a response yet. I was able to resolve the issue I had by uninstalling Nero 6 on my rig. Seems the error I was having also comes up on several other games / apps for other people and I was able to find the solution on the web.

As far as my resolve on BoB2, well, yes I am VERY disappointed. Yes, I am going to wait for the patch, however I truly don't expect a whole lot given the extent of the problems people are having.

Anyhow, to all who have read my post on BoB, please beware....there are huge problems with the game as I'm sure you know by now. I'm not bashing the developers. I don't know the details behind why they released it without truly testing everything. Deadlines I imagine. Just don't spend your money until you start reading about how the "patch" resolved all the major issues.

I came across P*d off in my first post simply because I spent 40 dollars on something that just doesn't work. In the grand scheme of things 40 dollars isn't much money, but I would have much rather spent it on the Uber patch / add-on from Oleg with the 150 types of aircraft and ships which we've all yearned for (ok, just dreaming there for a second). Ya hear that Oleg, I'd spend 40 dollars for something like that....probably 80 dollars if it came with enough good stuff. &lt;anyone listening???&gt;

Keep the blue side up everyone. DHC2Pilot Out.

Airmikey2
09-19-2005, 10:01 PM
I just got it myself...After two hours I am definitely ready to take a break! It's one of those games thats going to give me a headache for about two days before I can get any play time out of it.. Mostly, I am having a hard time assigning my controls to my HOTAS setup, it recognizes axis but not buttons.. Grrrrr

However, now that I have vented...

I can honestly say if this sim gets straightened out it is definately worth the trouble just for the 6DOF experience alone - my heaven's what this little gadget is going to do for flight simming ! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif I freekin' love it.

Airmikey

PS. Sounds kick butt too.. If only Oleg had these sounds and 6DOF..http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

msalama
09-19-2005, 10:11 PM
My $000.2:

A tiny development team with other commitments already (i.e. day jobs elsewhere) + incompetent project management = a bad product. I of course might be wrong in my assessment, but it SO looks like that!

But it makes you appreciate 1C's efforts & their existing body of work even more, now doesn't it?

PS. J3Pilot, have you considered taking the game back for a refund?

DHC2Pilot
09-19-2005, 10:15 PM
DHC2Pilot = J3Pilot (I got my password fixed)

(Getting up off of floor - I fell off the chair laughing). Refund...LOL....I can hear the sales staff at CompUSA now - "REFUND, WE DON'T GIVE NO STINKING REFUNDS"

msalama
09-19-2005, 10:19 PM
..not to mention the classic mistake of re-opening an old can-of-worms codebase! Anyone with SW engineering experience knows that undertakings like this are _very_ risky, as it's often cheaper to start from scratch & you usually get a better end product too...

Oh well. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

msalama
09-19-2005, 10:20 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">"REFUND, WE DON'T GIVE NO STINKING REFUNDS" </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well that understandably kinda torpedoes that idea. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

DHC2Pilot
09-19-2005, 10:22 PM
easy come.....easy go. Let's face it, we're all middle-men (uh...and women) for money.

LEXX_Luthor
09-19-2005, 10:37 PM
mslama:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">A tiny development team with other commitments already (i.e. day jobs elsewhere) + incompetent project management = a bad product. I of course might be wrong in my assessment, but it SO looks like that! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
A tiny development team ran Microsoft out of the combat flight sim market.

You will still have Windows, you will lose nothing.

Old_Canuck
09-20-2005, 12:40 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by GT182:
....Chivas, if you can't complain where it would do the most good then don't complain at all. .... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

BOB2 related comments and complaints posted in this forum are read by Shockwave developers - be sure. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

partic_3
09-20-2005, 01:36 AM
PC based combat flight sims are a low profit, niche market. If you enjoy these games as much as I do, you want to see them exist in the future. Therefore you want to encourage anyone who may be prepared to create these complex products to do so.
Shockwave are not con-men. I think they are very unhappy with the difficulties that people are having and will work very hard to fix them. They may not succeed as they are working with some fairly old code but good luck to them, and if you have any brains at all you'll say good luck too.
If people see that the only reward you get for making a product is abuse and low sales the product won't get made.
If some of you dolts were to have your way we'd be playing Heroes of the Pacific and thinking it was a great sim!
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

John_Stag
09-20-2005, 05:08 AM
DHC2Pilot, I wouldn't have been so harsh if I'd known you were a regular, but I saw two posts to do nothing but criticise, and I figured that "j3pilot" was just trolling.

But I think you were wrong to be so harsh about WoV; you've got to bear in mind that it took 1c a long time to get their titles to where they are today, whereas it could be argued that old though it is, the potential of WoV's code has remained largely untapped. Me, I can see the potential, and though I admit I have serious problems with WoV in its present form, I believe that in time these problems will be overcome. For whatever reason, WoV's launch with such a disastrous flaw was to say the least ill-advised, but I think it will be a real mistake to dismiss the title without giving it a chance.

Hell, I'm so impressed with what I've seen so far I'm already looking to upgrade my rig.

Aaron_GT
09-20-2005, 05:25 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">eptember 19 2005 21:19
..not to mention the classic mistake of re-opening an old can-of-worms codebase! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The Mig Alley code is probably pretty similar, and seems to be availble for anyone who wants it. So in theory anyone could have a go at updating that. But as you say, old code (unless it was very well written and documented in the first place) is a can of worms. I once worked on some telephone exchange code that was 20 years old, and it was more like archaeology than software engineering...

B16Enk
09-20-2005, 10:09 AM
And guess what?

The WoV patch is to be released today at 17:00 EST according to Scott over @ shockwave.

That's quite impressive http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

GT182
09-20-2005, 11:30 AM
Partic_3, yes they are distraught over the problems, especially the ones the guys in the UK are having.

OC if you're referring to me... not so. I'm not on the developement team. I'm only a beta tester. Chivas' comments were and are uncalled for. I do not have a nigh ens system as most here do and I've had only 1 CTD with BOB2. Other than that it runs great. So Chivas doesn't need to trash a sim just because HE can can't play it. But I suppose that if he was having the same problem with IL2 he do the same thing.

ashley2005
09-20-2005, 11:32 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Chivas doesn't need to trash a sim just because HE can can't play </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

im just witing for the patch ...when its stable enoug i will fly it again ...untill then im gonna wait ..the patch maybe coming out 2night 10pm gmt

Edbert
09-20-2005, 12:09 PM
I can usually complete an instant action sortie without a CTD, sometimes two. But the campaign mode is useless becasue of the CTDs.

Comparing that title to PF is misleading. They have added a high-res plane-art graphics-package to an old boxed sim and some folks here are calling it a threat to 1C-BoB...LOL. While the ancient game shows how bad the immersion of the small-fights in IL2 are, and provides better sounds, and a real dynamic campaign it is still a very old graphics engine and this "new release" is ajust an art-pack as far as I can tell. No threat to 1C-BoB at all.

stubby
09-20-2005, 01:03 PM
I've have had no CDTs and my frames are very playable. While on the ground, they hover at 20. Once I take-off and form up, it will climb to 30. During massive engagements with up to 100+ enemy planes plus another 12-24 from my group, frames still stay in the upper 20s.
I believe the frame counts are odd in that 20 fps in Il2 is very noticable w/ my TIR 3 setup whereas with BOBII, it's smooth.

Oh, I forgot. AI planes in BOBII can't see you through the clouds, imagine that from a 6 year old game. Shame Il2 never got that right.

Couple of points about BOBII. The TiR 3 VE is unreal. Having 6dof adds a whole new level of immersion that Il2 can't touch with only 2dof.

Sounds - BOBII kicks Il2s butt in all regards.

Graphically - cockpits rival Il2 but externally, Il2 is still king of the hill.

Clouds - BOBII is pretty close to Il2 4.01m style clouds but without the massive frame rate hit.

Campaign System - BOBII is king in this department. BOBII dynamic campaign is on par with Falcon's 4 AF system.

Multiplayer - don't both w/ BOBII, it doesn't have it. If you're in to single player, BOBII is tops and offers up plenty of soul, character and immersion.

Bottom line - BOBII has performed rock solid on my syste. I've flown over 5 campaign missions plus dozens and dozens of instant action with zero problems. The one key thing that has contributed to BOBII rock solid performance on my system is the fact I did a full, clean install of Win XP on my system a few weeks ago. The other thing is that every possible driver on my system has been updated and using verious XP tweaking guides around the web, I've cut the fat from my system in terms of which background processes and services I allow to run.

Qbeesh800
09-20-2005, 01:13 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Fighterduck:
it's an horrible game! I was lucky to test it on another PC...very lucky! It's a pice of ****! Can't beat Il2 series at all...i don't tell this because i'm an il2 fan...I thought this was finally a new step sim....wrong! Horrible! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree..
Nothing special, just another little game, just like CFS3. Sys Requirements little too high for rather average visual quality.
It's definitely not a big step forwards for the flight sims. Just another little game...

LEXX_Luthor
09-20-2005, 01:24 PM
Thanks stubby, it does sound like a great campaign system if they work out the other issues, and its not changed since BoB1 from 5 years ago. Offline campaign systems have not changed since BoB1, Falcon, and Red Baron from the last century. This may be one indication that Online dogfight shooter focus is holding back the development of the combat flight sim genre.

Chivas
09-20-2005, 01:52 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by GT182:
Partic_3, yes they are distraught over the problems, especially the ones the guys in the UK are having.

OC if you're referring to me... not so. I'm not on the developement team. I'm only a beta tester. Chivas' comments were and are uncalled for. I do not have a nigh ens system as most here do and I've had only 1 CTD with BOB2. Other than that it runs great. So Chivas doesn't need to trash a sim just because HE can can't play it. But I suppose that if he was having the same problem with IL2 he do the same thing. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I haven't even begun to trash this sim. I'm still giving it the benefit of the doubt. Maybe you should reread my posts. There are alot of things I like and don't like with this sim. After the patch and I've finished optimising, testing, and playing, I may give you something to complain about.

SeaFireLIV
09-20-2005, 02:44 PM
Talking about AI not seeing you through clouds, I also notice bomber gunners don`t see you either... I was attacking some bombers, see below.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/SeaFireLIV/there.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/SeaFireLIV/clouded.jpg

And I was weaving in and out trying to hit them. I noticed they shot at me when in visual view, but stopped shooting whenver I flew back above the clouds, even when I was right over them - in IL2 I would have been riddled to death. I tell you, IL2 offline with AI is really missing a new way of aircombat when AI can see thru clouds.

Hopefully, the Patch will make the annoying cut-off of CTDs a much rarer event if not totally gone.

Nice thing to note is, it gives Oleg some competition which is useful for making sure he adds that little extra to his BOB. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

LEXX_Luthor
09-20-2005, 04:29 PM
Yes, BoB2 AI and gunners not seeing through clouds has finally arrived in the flight sim market.

BoB2 offers no night missions, so AI losing most (not all) vision at night has never been done in BoB2 (or FB/PF), but this next flight sim advance should be coming.

partic_3
09-20-2005, 05:26 PM
GT182, I was not referring to you. Sorry if I gave that impression. My problem is with people who feel they have the moral superiority to throw ****e from a great height.
By the way I completely cured my ctds by rebuilding my PC. And I have had to do this for IL2, my first love, a couple of times in the past.
Mind you the fps are a worry.

faustnik
09-20-2005, 05:57 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by j3pilot:
Just wanted to tell anyone who is thinking about purchasing this magnificient pile of poop to not waste your money. I've got a pretty fast rig and I can't get past the opening menu screen without an error message that kicks me out of the game. I don't think Oleg has a thing to worry about as far as competition with IL-2/FB/PF goes. And I'm sure that his version of BoB will at least WORK. 40 dollars US - *POOF* - gone in a puff of smoke - for NOTHING. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I certainly don't think BoB WoV offers much in the way of competition to PF. I bought it to try a new flight sim and find it interesting.

When I first installed I had CTD issues. I reinstalled in safe mode and I'm not having them any more.

The FM is interesting as you have to really watch your energy. The cockpits are good too with excellent texturing.

partic_3
09-20-2005, 07:09 PM
One thing I'll say for this game is a one on one dogfight in a Spit vs a BF109 is much, much harder in BOBII. I'm not saying more realistic because I wouldn't have a clue but chasing this 109 is like chasing a weasel that's on speed! The FM is much harder too, I find myself using rudder to control the plane in flight! I know 4.01 introduced this to some extent in IL2 but nothing like this. Again, I have never flown a real plane so can't comment on realism but surely there is some realism when at the end of a dogfight you slump back, panting. (I'm talking offline flight here, and that's the whole point of this BOBII caper, isn't it? An offline campaign http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif)

jamesdietz
09-20-2005, 09:11 PM
Serious question:After years of HUD with Il-2 I can't get the setup in BoB WoV with the crosses & roundels .How exactly do they work?

msalama
09-20-2005, 09:38 PM
Some people seem to think I was bashing BoBII. Well I wasn't, it's just that things like this - re-working old code with inadequate resources yielding unstable results - are far too common in the SW world!

But the patch is coming, and hopefully solves these problems. And oh yeah, did I mention that I'm going to buy this game too?

madsarmy
09-21-2005, 01:38 AM
The patch is out. get it here.

http://shockwaveproductions.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2...9e9a750703393107203c (http://shockwaveproductions.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2547&amp;sid=1c6b563e285f9e9a750703393 107203c)

SeaFireLIV
09-21-2005, 04:09 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by jamesdietz:
Serious question:After years of HUD with Il-2 I can't get the setup in BoB WoV with the crosses & roundels .How exactly do they work? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don`t use the crosses/roundels. It`s supposed to represent PERIPHERAL VISION. I have TIR1 so that`s fine for me.

You can disable Peripheral vision in the options to lose it.

cueceleches
09-21-2005, 04:41 AM
My 2 cts....I like the game, it runs stable and smooth and I love those huge bomber formations and furballs.

jamesdietz
09-21-2005, 09:15 AM
Yes I have Track IR too& realize I can disable this ...but is there an enable HUD function , so I can tell what plane the dots in the sky are? Not that I seem to get close to them at 8FPS....

BSS_Goat
09-21-2005, 09:28 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by jamesdietz:
Yes I have Track IR too& realize I can disable this ...but is there an enable HUD function , so I can tell what plane the dots in the sky are? Not that I seem to get close to them at 8FPS.... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You have to enable them in game and the hit "T" when the mission starts IIRC

My question on Shockwave http://shockwaveproductions.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2407&highlight= (http://shockwaveproductions.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2407&amp;highlight=)

msalama
09-22-2005, 01:26 PM
So how's the patch then?

John_Stag
09-22-2005, 02:27 PM
Solved CTD's, improved frames somewhat, but I have a bit of a problem with TIR 6DO now.

Having said that, Rick of Naturalpoint showed up on the forum and said they're working on the problem.

Shockwave's next patch is to increase frames even more.

"Two More Weeks," I guess. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/394_1127422152_shot_039.jpg

ucanfly
09-22-2005, 10:19 PM
I have to admait I feel a bit like a beta tester for BOBII but after the patch ( and loading it in 3 times) just about all my issues are solved and I am getting no CTD with campaigns or realistic missions.

The Flight models do not feel like they are on rails (which feels more realistic IMO than a rudder that is bouncing like a rubber band in PF), and the ability to lean right and left is very nice! The campaign is verrrry immersive and the comms are pretty darn good.

My biggest remaining complaint is that I can't hear the bullets striking my aircraft when I'm hit.

I like it!

msalama
09-22-2005, 10:56 PM
There was a thread at the Shockwave forums, where one of the developers - can't remember which - said that their FMs are slightly too hard to be realistic. Also, someone posted about unrealistic stall characteristics there a while ago.

Now don't get me wrong. I'm sure it's basically an excellent sim, but things like that only prove how bloody _HARD_ it is to get the FMs accurately nailed! And yes, that of course is something we IL-2'ers know very well too...

EDIT @ 23-09-2005 19:23 EET: The first thread was actually @ SimHq, and the person posting was Scott from Shockwave. Sorry about the misinformation!

Capt_Kernel
09-23-2005, 07:28 AM
For anyone one who is thinking about BOB WOV. If you are used to flying Pacific Fighters this sim is not for you. You will be greatly dissapointed. If offers nothing that can compare to PF. It's hard to beleive that 4to 5 years after the release of IL2 a company could release a pile of dung like this. I feel like I've been cheated out of my money. Just my opinion.

stubby
09-23-2005, 09:12 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Capt_Kernel:
I feel like I've been cheated out of my money. Just my opinion. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You obviously did no homework on this title. Had you done one minute of research, you would have realized that this title is using a 6 year old engine w/ zero multiplayer capability. Had you bothered to read any of the thousands of available links on the web about BOB:WOV, you would have realized that this game is mainly about the single player experience of being both the commander of RAF fighter command or as a pilot against the AI. You deserved to have your money taken, fool.

WOLFMondo
09-23-2005, 10:09 AM
Despite the negative reviews I went and bought this. It plays great, very smooth with everything maxed out both in game and on the video card.

Trouble is its a pile of toss.

Thankfully I kept my reciept and know Game will refund me when I take it back tomorrow.

Just remember, when you whine about IL2:FB/PF, think how good the competition is compared to Oleg and team. 1C:M are in a different league. I shall never whine again (not that I ever really did!).

SeaFireLIV
09-23-2005, 10:10 AM
Steady on, old chap, it`s just his opinion. I think too many people didn`t do their homework and got BOBII for all the wrong reasons (eg, looking for an Oleg-clone beater).

msalama
09-23-2005, 10:18 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">(eg, looking for an Oleg-clone beater). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Exactly the kind of expectations you get when there's little or no competition! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

ICDP
09-23-2005, 10:52 AM
I have been playing through the RAF campaign and the immersion is second to none. PF campaigns are totally devoid of immersion compared to BoBII, there really is no comparison.

I took off as number threee in a flight of three Hurricanes to intercept a lone bomber recon plane. The weather was very cloudy so spotting him was almost impossible. I asked GC for a vector and headed off towards where the enemy should be but there was no sign of him. We had about given up on finding our prey in the thick clouds after about 10 minutes of searching when my flight leader shouted "I see him, a single Dornier at 2 o'clock". There he was, about 300m at our 2 o'clock, he had just emerged from the clouds. I had to work fast as he would soon be under cover of the clouds again. I pulled in behind him and let rip, he didn't stand a chance, the 8x .303s on my Hurricane made short work of him. We must have been flying on an almost parallel course for quite a while. He hadn't seen us and we hadn't seen him due to the thick clouds.

The simple fact that the AI can't see through the clouds makes a massive difference to offline play. This kind of immersion is what makes all the difference to offliners.

If I want to play an offline campaign with outstanding immersion and great structure I will fly BoB. PF is the only choice for online but a distant second for offline campaigns.

sgilewicz
09-23-2005, 11:19 AM
I've been following this thread through its entirety and have one question. Does the campaign require you to manage the war or can you simply play as a pilot? CFS3 claimed you didn't have to manage the war as long as you succeeded in your tasks but England was captured 3 times following that advice http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif. I'm not into the strategy/management thing so this is an important consideration for me. Thanks.

ICDP
09-23-2005, 11:41 AM
Sgilewica,

There is a work around to do this that involes setting up the campaing so that you have afavourite squadron. This way you only get messages about the missions of your selected squadron.

According to those who fly this way the CPU can make a very good account of itself and the outcome is not predictable.

Checkout the official shockwave forum for some better answers.

http://shockwaveproductions.com/forum/index.php

Capt_Kernel
09-23-2005, 02:40 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by stubby:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Capt_Kernel:
I feel like I've been cheated out of my money. Just my opinion. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You obviously did no homework on this title. Had you done one minute of research, you would have realized that this title is using a 6 year old engine w/ zero multiplayer capability. Had you bothered to read any of the thousands of available links on the web about BOB:WOV, you would have realized that this game is mainly about the single player experience of being both the commander of RAF fighter command or as a pilot against the AI. You deserved to have your money taken, fool. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> Hey Stubby, get the pop bottle out of your butt.... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

stubby
09-23-2005, 05:57 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Capt_Kernel:
Hey Stubby, get the pop bottle out of your butt.... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

At the end of the day, i'm still $35 dollars richer than you even with a bottle inserted into my anus!

Capt_Kernel
09-23-2005, 06:50 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by stubby:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Capt_Kernel:
Hey Stubby, get the pop bottle out of your butt.... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

At the end of the day, i'm still $35 dollars richer than you even with a bottle inserted into my anus! </div></BLOCKQUOTE> $35 dollars richer? Is that alot of doe to you stubby? You must be the white trash you proved yourself to be...........LOL.... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

Stackhouse25th
09-24-2005, 12:29 AM
Ok, being a flight sim enthusiast for years. I can tell you, just seeing the demo I knew not to buy it. Compare the demo to IL2 and you'll see why i didnt get it. Flying in that game is a joke.

IL2 is by far more real. The only thing Oleg is missing in il2 is dynamic weather (winds, temp, like lomac). More features for aircraft dynamics, they are already superb and beyond anything ANY other company has EVER put out, including microsoft.

Microsoft has 150 programmers for flight sim. Oleg has 50? Then how can Oleg put out a sim 2x as good as flight sim. MSFS you cant even do spins.

msalama
09-24-2005, 01:19 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Trouble is its a pile of toss. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Exactly HOW is it a pile of toss? And don't read anything into my question that isn't there http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif I'm just asking because as an offliner I'm interested in this game...

John_Stag
09-24-2005, 12:24 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Stackhouse25th:
Ok, being a flight sim enthusiast for years. I can tell you, just seeing the demo I knew not to buy it. Compare the demo to IL2 and you'll see why i didnt get it. Flying in that game is a joke.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

What demo?

Aaron_GT
09-25-2005, 12:42 AM
although the patch hasn't improved peak frame rates for me overall it does seem smoother, and it is more stable. There is still a way to go, though. The sudden appearance of enemy aircraft flying across/through you is still bizzare.

Aaron_GT
09-25-2005, 04:09 AM
I spoke too soon - still plenty of CTDs

major_setback
09-25-2005, 10:52 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Aaron_GT:
although the patch hasn't improved peak frame rates for me overall it does seem smoother, and it is more stable. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

There's a patch? Already? Has anyone else tried it? Can anyone report on how effective it is? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

GT182
09-25-2005, 11:20 AM
Those of you crying about BOB WOV cried about FB and PF and still can't stop the whining. You'd complain if they hung you with an old rope. Act your age not your IQ.

And, you'll do the same with Oleg's Battle of Britain.

Capt_Kernel
09-25-2005, 11:29 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by GT182:
Those of you crying about BOB WOV cried about FB and PF and still can't stop the whining. You'd complain if they hung you with an old rope. Act your age not your IQ.

And, you'll do the same with Oleg's Battle of Britain. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> Oh, GT can we be like you? You're so cool..... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/351.gif

stubby
09-26-2005, 08:34 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Capt_Kernel:be the white trash you proved yourself to be...........LOL.... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You're the one *****ing about being cheated -over 35 dollars. who's the white trash? just think, had you got off your lazy butt to read a review, you could have used your precious 35 dollars for a new mullet haircut, a case of Miller Lite and some gas for your Super Nova.

SeaFireLIV
09-26-2005, 08:56 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by GT182:
Those of you crying about BOB WOV cried about FB and PF and still can't stop the whining. You'd complain if they hung you with an old rope. Act your age not your IQ.

And, you'll do the same with Oleg's Battle of Britain. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

True. The whines will probably ovrflow with Oleg`s BOB MORE than WOV`s!

msalama
09-26-2005, 11:53 AM
Gentlemen, very interesting reading here.

But to be honest I'm not sure whether I should buy the game now, or wait for still another patch! This komputer being old, slow and krappy...

Well, what would _you_ do with an AMD 1.3 GHz w/ 512 MB of RAM & an NVidia GeForce FX 5200? S**tcanning it being not an option until Xmas http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

TacticalYak3
09-26-2005, 12:01 PM
You guys who actually have the game and offering some honest opinions seem to be taking a ton of abuse from others here. Is it worth it mates? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

I for one appreciate the information. Just a gamer free to purchase and enjoy anything found in gaming stores. I€m not offended by the existence of another flight simulation €" good or bad.

I also don€t want to waste my money however. So any information with regards to upcoming improvements with respect to CTDs and framerate issues are most welcomed. Understandably not willing to purchase what looks like a fun offline game until these technical issues are resolved. The immersion and certain features sound great nonetheless!

Regards,
TS!

msalama
09-26-2005, 01:57 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/351.gif

Professor_06
09-26-2005, 02:59 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by GT182:
Those of you crying about BOB WOV cried about FB and PF and still can't stop the whining. You'd complain if they hung you with an old rope. Act your age not your IQ.

And, you'll do the same with Oleg's Battle of Britain. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

How does a drunken 148 year old act?

Dexmeister
09-26-2005, 03:37 PM
Can anyone tell me how WOV compares to CFS3? I'm excited to get an indepth comparison from this unbiased crowd! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

TROOPER117
09-26-2005, 03:48 PM
Just to put things into perspective...Do you remember when 'Hidden and Dangerous' first came out??
So **** frustrating with all of its faults, crashes etc, but, with many patches down the line and upgrades etc it proved to be an absolute classic!!...Give it a chance guys...

Regards...Dave S. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Clawed1970
09-26-2005, 03:54 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by sgilewicz:
I've been following this thread through its entirety and have one question. Does the campaign require you to manage the war or can you simply play as a pilot? CFS3 claimed you didn't have to manage the war as long as you succeeded in your tasks but England was captured 3 times following that advice http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif. I'm not into the strategy/management thing so this is an important consideration for me. Thanks. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Although I love this game and the campaign in particular, there are two key actions that I have yet to witness the campaign AI carry out on its own, when I fly for the RAF, in the de facto Pilot Career mode.

1. Setting the "readiness" of select squadrons to 2 minutes, in order to have enough time to intercept raids coming across the narrowest portions of the Channel; and

2. "Revectoring" standing patrols to intercept incoming raids.

I have found both of the above-stated actions to be virtually indispensable when conducting a campaign for the RAF and have not found a way to have the campaign AI carry them out without my direct involvement, each and every time.

ashley2005
09-26-2005, 07:28 PM
i uninstalled it today and added it to my flight sim pile that i dont play ..one day i might wip it back out for another go but for now im a il2 pf guy http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif its a good sim ..but i like to play online with real peple ..there more unpredictable http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

ImpStarDuece
09-26-2005, 09:22 PM
I'm a big believer in the 'wait and see' policy.

I firmly intend to buy BoBII;WOV when it comes out in Australia. But, I wont be rushing to the store to buy it ASAP. Why? Well, all modern software has bugs in it. Operating systems, word porgrams, games, you name it. So I usually wait a month or two for people to;

A) stop either worshiping or excreeting on the game becasue it is either the best or worst thing ever in their point of view. Both sides of the coin piss me off. Nothing is perfect but most sims usually have some innovative features.

B) patches are usually brought out to fix issues within the first 6-8 weeks of a release. Its part and parcel of the business now-a-days. So i ould rather buy the game and download the patches straight away than have to wait a frustrating few weeks.

From what I have heard the sound modeling is great as are the majority of the Flight Models. Some of the graphics are excellent (cockpits, explosions, weather effects) while others like the ground modelling and aircraft fall behind IL2/CFS3. The campaign is supposedly excelent, and I don't think the lack of online content is a let-down. Its a mixed bag, and does somethings better and other things worse. Probably exactly what everyone should of expected really.

Aaron_GT
09-27-2005, 01:38 AM
The nice thing about BoB WOV is the campaign. You can get some varied missions being generated - it might be swatting massed Ju87s at low level one day, and then trying to pick of a lone high flying Do17 recon plane with two squadron mates the next. Sometimes finding the enemy is the problem. If the campaign engine was generating IL2 missions (and we had the planeset) it would be great.

In terms of the flight experience I think that the AI is slightly better than IL2 in some areas, but worse in others. For example when you come across a pack of Ju87s you can just fly through the formation firing 0.5 second bursts at each one in turn and causing each one to drop their bomb and drop out of formation in an identical way. This gets tedious. When mixing it up with lots of 109s the AI seems quite good, though. The other nice touch is that clouds impede the AI.

In terms of FM you can't yank and bank the planes as much without buffeting, although I haven't actually spun a plane yet as the stall warning is so obvious. Energy retention seems to be much greater. It is sometimes hard to spot your own field from medium altitudes until you are relatively close. If you are coming in a bit too hot in IL2/PF you can cut power and do some sideslips and kill forward speed quite quickly. In BoB II WOV this seems much less effective. I don't know which behaviour is correct, but they are definitely different. The other thing that is different is landing the Spitfire - it is very hard in BoB II WOV due to the effects of the narrow undercarriage being perhaps a bit overdone. The feeling of the sink rates is also a bit different.

Other than that, there isn't much to reccomend it over IL2/PF. Add a Do17, early 110, and a Spit I to the current IL2/PF plane set and create a campaign/mission generator and we could have pretty much the same experience in IL2/PF

John_Stag
09-27-2005, 05:15 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Aaron_GT:
The nice thing about BoB WOV is the campaign. You can get some varied missions being generated - it might be swatting massed Ju87s at low level one day, and then trying to pick of a lone high flying Do17 recon plane with two squadron mates the next. Sometimes finding the enemy is the problem. If the campaign engine was generating IL2 missions (and we had the planeset) it would be great.

In terms of the flight experience I think that the AI is slightly better than IL2 in some areas, but worse in others. For example when you come across a pack of Ju87s you can just fly through the formation firing 0.5 second bursts at each one in turn and causing each one to drop their bomb and drop out of formation in an identical way. This gets tedious. When mixing it up with lots of 109s the AI seems quite good, though. The other nice touch is that clouds impede the AI.

In terms of FM you can't yank and bank the planes as much without buffeting, although I haven't actually spun a plane yet as the stall warning is so obvious. Energy retention seems to be much greater. It is sometimes hard to spot your own field from medium altitudes until you are relatively close. If you are coming in a bit too hot in IL2/PF you can cut power and do some sideslips and kill forward speed quite quickly. In BoB II WOV this seems much less effective. I don't know which behaviour is correct, but they are definitely different. The other thing that is different is landing the Spitfire - it is very hard in BoB II WOV due to the effects of the narrow undercarriage being perhaps a bit overdone. The feeling of the sink rates is also a bit different.

Other than that, there isn't much to reccomend it over IL2/PF. Add a Do17, early 110, and a Spit I to the current IL2/PF plane set and create a campaign/mission generator and we could have pretty much the same experience in IL2/PF </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Really? try running a DGEN Battle of Britain campaign as a Hurricane pilot, and tell me it's the same.

I think there's a little bit more involved.

Kapt_Kernel: If your parents can't supply adult supervision, I'm sure the state can.

Stackhouse25th: Liar.

Aaron_GT
09-27-2005, 09:03 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Really? try running a DGEN Battle of Britain campaign as a Hurricane pilot, and tell me it's the same. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

What I meant was that it would need to be more involved than just the current level of DGEN to create the missions. Ideally the AI shouldn't be able to see through clouds in IL2/PF as well.

I suppose I was being a bit optimistic given that with the same number of planes in an IL2/PF mission as in a BoB WOV II mission the frame rates in IL2/PF would be just as low as in BoB WOV II. I get the impression (given the way the planes move) in BoB II WOV there is one FM applied to a whole squadron if there are no enemy (or player?) aircraft near.

jamesdietz
09-27-2005, 09:25 AM
Yeah- why was there never a Do-17 or 217 In FB..it was my understanding that at least initally all the aircraft in game would have,at some point been in combat over Russia?Doesn't the Dornier qualify?
Still working FPS issues out on WoV but I will tell you my biggest gripe ( and remember this comes from an artist) its the lack over-all depth & intensity in the colors esp the German aircraft...they all seem faded somehow like very old color photos in a scrapbook.Maybe its because of this all over greyness to game that aircraft disappear when they fall beneath the horizon ( Aircraft text "T" does help somewhat...)Flying the Bf-110 in both games is like going from a foggy day in WoV to bright sunshine in FB/PF...the diffeence graphically at least in very great...No rear gunners in 110s or Ju-87s either.
Having said all that the sound & Track Ir Pro Vector make it enjoyable,and I can tell you fighting fighter against fighter is no walk in the park( esp. becuse you don't know you've been hit until its way too late even with Sidewinder Force Feed Back joystick.
Setting up a campaign seems time consumming too..is there one I can simply fly without going thru the whole process of day by day planning it?I have a real job...
Now what I am really waiting for is Oleg's patch with flyable Ju-88 & Mosquito....Oh Mamma!

BSS_Goat
09-27-2005, 09:43 AM
James w/ all due respect.... Have you adjusted the monitor? Also there is a contrast ingame that helps.

Now my take on WOV. Being I have no (decent) internet at home ATM. I am a strictly offline player now.
IL2 is great, nothing better, superd, fantastic ect ect, for online combat, but its DCG has no soul. WOV has soul. Lots of soul, but sadly lots of bugs. If they get all the CTD's, low FPS and glitches worked out it will be top notch. If they dont....well it will be sitting next to the rest of the could-have-beens.

I mean 200 planes in the air! Who doesnt want that?

jamesdietz
09-27-2005, 09:58 AM
Played with the Gamma of Monitor & made one adjust to Gamma in game...maybe it takes more tinkering ( like everything in this game apparently...) Couldn't agree withyou more about DCg ,but third person designed campaigns have helped alot( read my short review of Rebirth of Honor elsewher on this site...) but is ther a way to fly a campaign in WoV without having to plan all of it?

BSS_Goat
09-27-2005, 10:11 AM
Try this:

http://shockwaveproductions.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2739

and check the links in the thread

Oh Yeah, Gamma thats what its called http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_redface.gif
BTW it seems to work backwards.

TacticalYak3
09-27-2005, 10:40 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BSS_Goat:
I mean 200 planes in the air! Who doesnt want that? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I suspect the British, that's who mate. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

BSS_Goat
09-27-2005, 11:40 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TacticalYak3:
I suspect the British, that's who mate. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/mockface.gif

-HH-Quazi
09-27-2005, 12:03 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by John_Stag:
Cuts both ways; "J3Pilot" has up to this point made exacly two posts on this forum; apparrently he only came here to **** off WoV.

I will tell you to beware of semi-anonymous posters who are long on rhetoric but short on details.

That's all I've got to say. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Don't read to much into post counts. I have found many m8s that have posted in the Help forum with only a couple of posts, that I thought were new this sim and our community, only to find out that they have been a part of our little group here for years, it's just that they don't participate in the threads even though they read these forums daily.

jamesdietz
09-27-2005, 12:24 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BSS_Goat:
James w/ all due respect.... Have you adjusted the monitor? Also there is a contrast ingame that helps.

Now my take on WOV. Being I have no (decent) internet at home ATM. I am a strictly offline player now.
IL2 is great, nothing better, superd, fantastic ect ect, for online combat, but its DCG has no soul. WOV has soul. Lots of soul, but sadly lots of bugs. If they get all the CTD's, low FPS and glitches worked out it will be top notch. If they dont....well it will be sitting next to the rest of the could-have-beens.

I mean 200 planes in the air! Who doesnt want that? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You were right bumping in game Gamma up to high ( maximum made it a bit dark in cockpit) made a great deal of diffeence...game became ( may I say) more pretty...er.... prettier.If I could only get oh say 20 FPS attacking bombers instead of 4...well I'd be really happy.It really has the immersion factor working for it with Sound & Track IR...Now about programming all the viewa buttons etc.... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

TacticalYak3
09-27-2005, 12:58 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BSS_Goat:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TacticalYak3:
I suspect the British, that's who mate. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/mockface.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Love the response mate! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

highvolt10000
10-04-2005, 10:12 AM
ok

major_setback
10-04-2005, 11:26 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by highvolt10000:

ok

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>



What took you so long to post? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Welcome highvolt!



Quote from above.

-HH-Quazi:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Don't read to much into post counts. I have found many m8s that have posted in the Help forum with only a couple of posts, that I thought were new this sim and our community, only to find out that they have been a part of our little group here for years, it's just that they don't participate in the threads even though they read these forums daily. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

major_setback
10-04-2005, 11:30 AM
How do the patches help this sim?

Anyone still get crashes to desktop? Or is that solved now?

rummyrum
10-04-2005, 01:15 PM
I never had any crashes but from what I hear frames have increased as well.

burgers22
10-04-2005, 04:59 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TacticalYak3:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BSS_Goat:
I mean 200 planes in the air! Who doesnt want that? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I suspect the British, that's who mate. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

well as long as thier not French ( you know Super Entendars etc) we don't mind that much http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

MB

burgers22
10-04-2005, 05:13 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by major_setback:
How do the patches help this sim?

Anyone still get crashes to desktop? Or is that solved now? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Patches are pretty good, FPS up, CTD way down. This is a whole different feel to IL2. IL2 is such a great on line sim, Bob is a much better off line experiance, the plane set is very well match & there is no way you can get the whole massive air war experiance in BoB in IL2.

That said, despit the Shockwave involvement Bob is not as overal as polished a product as IL2, the Bob interface feels old & you have to do a bit of tweaking to get the best out of it. the campaing, however is just somthing that IL2 hasen't got, there is a new experiance here that you can't get in IL2.

They are both realy good sims, each has it's strengths & weaknesses. Bob is not that expensive to buy, so if your a prop head, it is worth a look, at least untill Oleg gets his Bob out. (is that a crime in Russia?) At the very least you get to know the rough shape of southern England ( it is a bit rough, like, they didn't include my old house ).

MB

LEXX_Luthor
10-04-2005, 08:19 PM
Apparently, you can add objects like houses. Developer Stickman has posted how to do this.

My biggest problem is one that hides in dark corners...AI Bubbles which uses simplified AI programming far from player plane and is used to get hundreds of aircraft in the air at one time (Rowan's MiG Alley used Bubbles too). The campaign game "cheats" and I think AI Bubbles are a frightening way of contributing to the computer cheating.

Nobody wants to talk about AI Bubbles. I think they are a bad Bad mistake in the long run, and the Silence of the Lambs is kinda scary. Oleg says he will be (or may be) using AI Bubbles for BoB And Beyond. I am having doubts about the whole idea.

The best way to get large bomber formations is not the fake AI Bubbles but simple AI programming for large bombers when in large formation. When they break formation as single planes then more complex AI can be used. At any rate, the "dogfight" AI of large bombers should be simplified compared to fighters and light attack bombers anyway. There are many ways of getting large numbers of aircraft in the air without having to cheat by using AI Bubbles.

Nimits
10-05-2005, 12:04 AM
Maybe I'm misunderstanding the AI bubbles, but if their just used for planes far from the player, how would the player ever notice?

LEXX_Luthor
10-05-2005, 01:04 AM
Nimits:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">how would the player ever notice? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Because it effects the overall combat results of the larger air battlefield.

You won't notice the effects of your AI Bubble inside your own little dogfight, but all combat results beyond your Bubble will be conducted in a manner that cannot be understood from your experience of watching AI in your flying area. This is because the distant AI are using different programming. This is hideous because you can't directly test or observe AI behavior outside the AI Bubble, and if something is wrong it would effect the campaign results.

-----

When you play, the game is designed to require player taking some control from AI campaign planning (certain Directives), or the player's side will likely lose to the computer's side. This happens if you fly either RAF or Luftwaffe.

Think about that for a minute.

&lt; Pause for Thinking &gt;

Now, consider what happens when you DO NOT fly campaign missions. I assume here that the entire battle area is conducted by AI Bubbles. On the other hand, since I don't have either BoB1 or BoB2, I don't know how fast the campaign "turns" or "days" happen on your computer if you do not fly. In other words, if you do not fly, how does the game calculate the results of all the missions through the entire day (morning to sunset)? Does it do this in a few seconds or minutes while you wait at the computer for the day's combat results? Maybe SeaFire can answer this.

What set me off on this subject is a thread I saw containing player observations of AI vs AI combat results (in campaign) that were just bizzare. I would have to find the thread where this caught my attention. I had always been wary of AI Bubbles, but this thread caught my attention and started me worrying for Oleg's BoB And Beyond.

LEXX_Luthor
10-05-2005, 01:30 AM
This is the thread that made me worry about AI Bubbles...

Interesting Campaign Observation ~&gt; http://shockwaveproductions.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2482



------



From another thread...and this probably does not involve AI Bubbles, but the computer "cheat" which may NOT be exactly a cheat (I must retract that) but...

CPS_Bomber:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">It's not that the game is impossible to win for whichever side you fly for, it just seems that the game was never really designed properly back in the Rowan days of BoBI to allow a campaign for a human player to run without any tactical input whatsoever (ie - fully automunous with the player just getting orders to fly).


But I don't wanna be a commander(http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif) ~&gt; http://shockwaveproductions.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2739
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

ddsflyer
10-05-2005, 01:40 PM
BoBII:WoV, what a P.O.S. Bought it, tried it, sent it back! Not even a luke-warm, warmed-over version of the original BoB. IL2 series is so far superior it is laughable.

james_ander
10-05-2005, 05:49 PM
I like it. There are some interesting things about it. the immersion and campaign are great. they have fixed many of the fps and ctd problems. Give them a chance. No one sim can do everything. I would love, PF/IL2 with an F4.0 style campaign. But I thinkn you would nee a mainframe. Anyway, this sim is still my favorite. If I could only have 1 game...BoB2 has things that this sim does not. But still, I have yet to find a prop sim as good as the original IL2.

Blottogg
10-06-2005, 06:11 AM
I've got to admit that I uninstalled this game after butting heads with a couple of problems, at least until the post release patches catch up to the bugs. Having said that though, an unfortunate side-effect of flight sims in general that low-volume, high development workload, and relatively low levels of beta testing (compared to cookie-cutter RTS games or shooters) means that bugs are propably inevitable.

The good news is that the Shockwave team remains dedicated to the game, and continue to offer great support, on par with Maddox games. I didn't have the CTD problem that plagued so many, and the texture crash I had was quickly solved by a new exe file from Osram. A key mapping error I had was apparently operator error (what a surprise.)

To compare PF with BoB WoV is a little unfair. PF is the culmination of over four years of continuous development (with thousands of us testing ... and whining.) WoV may have started with Rowan's code, but even its dedicated community couldn't give it the same level of polish. Now that WoV is out the door, it's no surprise that it's still a rough around the edges.

Having at least flown all the aircraft in WoV before I "dropped back ten and punted", the FM seems pretty good. Takeoffs are tough because the virtual tires grip really well. In a narrow gear plane (Spit or 109) it doesn't take much side load to put you on a wing. Torque and P-factor are modeled, though P-factor doesn't kick in until about 20 mph on takeoff. Compared to PF, the WoV rudder controls are wonderfully direct, without that rubbery pregnant pause between input and effect that helps contribute to PF's yaw wandering. TIR 6DOF is great, and I'm looking forward to it in Oleg's BoB as well. Stalls are telegraphed more in WoV, but I don't mind this as it compensates for the lack of seat of the pants feel in this (or any) PC sim.

In any case, looking at the two as an "either/or" choice is a bad idea. Flight sims aren't spouses, you're allowed to have more than one flight sim without being Mormon or Muslim. They've both got their strenghs, and I'm about to dive back in to WoV to explore it some more, now that I've taken some time away from it. Flying WoV doesn't make you a traitor to Oleg. If you can afford it, give it a try. With its community, I'm betting that it'll be around for a while.

edit - grammar

james_ander
10-06-2005, 07:54 PM
Yeah, give those guys a chance. They are good hard working flight-simmer stock. They put their time and money into FM's and a good campaign. That's the flight simmer thing to do. Enjoy it for what it is. That's the spirit!

GregGal
06-27-2007, 03:21 AM
The new 2.06.1 Patch is out, and it's a pretty stable game now. You guys should definetly see this video:
BoB WoV (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rh9m6heKmOA)

Endy1
06-27-2007, 04:44 AM
The video did look good. I ordered this about two months ago, from Play.com
Are they still selling and/or distributing this software?
My order still says waiting for stock.

GregGal
06-27-2007, 06:39 AM
Yes, sure they do! Visit www.shockwaveproductions.com (http://www.shockwaveproductions.com)
This game is a lot better than Il2 in a lot of aspects, though, Il2 has its advantages too. I hope SOW BOB will forge the good sides of these sims. But 'til then, it's worth a try, very immersive game!

blankenship
06-27-2007, 08:56 AM
Both sims definitely have their plusses and minuses. For me, while I enjoy the IL-2 series in all of their versions, I never get the sense of emersion like I do in WOV. I think it has to with the far superior sound modeling, huge plane formations, etc. IL-2 seems a little more...arcade.

Endy1
06-27-2007, 11:17 AM
Thanks for the reply's GregGal + blankenship.
I've cancelled my order with Play.com, and ordered from e-bay.
One question ---- Once installed, do you only need the one patch, [2.06], to bring it up to speed?
Thanks in advance.

GregGal
06-28-2007, 08:05 AM
Yes, 2.06 contains every patch 'til it. Then, you should install "multiskin 2.06" , wich will add a historically adequant skin to every squadron, and then, you should install 2.06.1, wich was released 2 days ago, in order to fix some campaign bugs.
The best thing in this game, is the Dynamic campaign, absolutely immersive. I wish it had a multiplayer option, like in Il2..

Endy1
06-28-2007, 03:49 PM
Thanks again GregGal, I received an e-mail today, to tell me it's been posted. Would you believe it's a postal workers strike tomorrow.

Anyway, I'll patch it when it comes, and I hope I like it as much as some of you chaps.

It should keep me going until Oleg's BOB arrives on the scene. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif