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View Full Version : CHEATING online is possible... or explain me this, please



Tipo_Man
05-24-2005, 05:46 AM
OK,
I first want to say I still can't believe this... But it really looks like someone have broken the IL-2 encryption and cheating now is possible.
The story:
Yesterday night I was flying on Janos71 server on a Ki-84lc and I came across some guy, who was simply impossible to shoot down...

Well before you say I'm an unexperienced noob, please have a look a these tracks, and try to explain them.

(copy and paste the address in your browser, simply clicking on the links won't work)
http://tipoman.maddsites.com/_Invinsible_LA-7_1.ntrk
http://tipoman.maddsites.com/_Invinsible_LA-7_2.ntrk
http://tipoman.maddsites.com/_Invinsible_LA-7_3.ntrk
http://tipoman.maddsites.com/_Invincible_FW-190A9.ntrk

(or here , thanks Hyperion)
http://rapidshare.de/files/1950833/_Invincible_FW-190A9.ntrk.html
http://rapidshare.de/files/1950858/_Invinsible_LA-7_1.ntrk.html
http://rapidshare.de/files/1950891/_Invinsible_LA-7_2.ntrk.html
http://rapidshare.de/files/1950921/_Invinsible_LA-7_3.ntrk.html



I started recording after two encounetrs which really made me think something was wrong.

Here are my observations:
- He was impervious to gunfire, during six successive encounters, I was never able to shoot him down, although each time he suffered at least ten 30mm shell hits.

-He disconneced and in a minute connected again, but he remained absolutely invulnerable

-I was able to inflcit damage to other planes and shoot them down on the server, except on him.

-His plane external model reflected the damaged he received, but his plane NEVER SUFFERED ANY PERFORMANCE LOSS! it can be easily seen on the tracks.

-His nickname was "skifru".

Oleg, please have a look,
This will kill online play!

Tipo_Man
05-24-2005, 05:46 AM
OK,
I first want to say I still can't believe this... But it really looks like someone have broken the IL-2 encryption and cheating now is possible.
The story:
Yesterday night I was flying on Janos71 server on a Ki-84lc and I came across some guy, who was simply impossible to shoot down...

Well before you say I'm an unexperienced noob, please have a look a these tracks, and try to explain them.

(copy and paste the address in your browser, simply clicking on the links won't work)
http://tipoman.maddsites.com/_Invinsible_LA-7_1.ntrk
http://tipoman.maddsites.com/_Invinsible_LA-7_2.ntrk
http://tipoman.maddsites.com/_Invinsible_LA-7_3.ntrk
http://tipoman.maddsites.com/_Invincible_FW-190A9.ntrk

(or here , thanks Hyperion)
http://rapidshare.de/files/1950833/_Invincible_FW-190A9.ntrk.html
http://rapidshare.de/files/1950858/_Invinsible_LA-7_1.ntrk.html
http://rapidshare.de/files/1950891/_Invinsible_LA-7_2.ntrk.html
http://rapidshare.de/files/1950921/_Invinsible_LA-7_3.ntrk.html



I started recording after two encounetrs which really made me think something was wrong.

Here are my observations:
- He was impervious to gunfire, during six successive encounters, I was never able to shoot him down, although each time he suffered at least ten 30mm shell hits.

-He disconneced and in a minute connected again, but he remained absolutely invulnerable

-I was able to inflcit damage to other planes and shoot them down on the server, except on him.

-His plane external model reflected the damaged he received, but his plane NEVER SUFFERED ANY PERFORMANCE LOSS! it can be easily seen on the tracks.

-His nickname was "skifru".

Oleg, please have a look,
This will kill online play!

Xnomad
05-24-2005, 05:48 AM
Your links aren't working, does your ISP have an ftp server? If it does then just use that.

Tipo_Man
05-24-2005, 05:50 AM
sorry, couldn't find a better one... I think you need to copy the address in your browser address, and not to click on the links...

BBB_Hyperion
05-24-2005, 05:58 AM
try www.qfile.de (http://www.qfile.de) 50 MB free upload and hosting
or try www.rapidshare.de (http://www.rapidshare.de) 30 MB free upload and hosting.

BBB_Hyperion
05-24-2005, 06:13 AM
Looked the tracks seems someone found a way to use a old bug. Can you post the server setting aswell

under net section
[NET]
checkServerTimeSpeed=1
checkClientTimeSpeed=1
checkTimeSpeedDifferense=0.05
checkTimeSpeedInterval=5

Will forward it then.

Tipo_Man
05-24-2005, 06:23 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BBB_Hyperion:
Looked the tracks seems someone found a way to use a old bug. Can you post the server setting aswell

under net section
[NET]
checkServerTimeSpeed=1
checkClientTimeSpeed=1
checkTimeSpeedDifferense=0.05
checkTimeSpeedInterval=5

Will forward it then. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sorry, couldn't understand you. Here are my settings in conf.ini:
[NET]
speed=8000
routeChannels=0
serverChannels=3
localPort=21000
remotePort=21000
SkinDownload=0
serverName=No Name
serverDescription=
remoteHost=
localHost=
socksHost=
checkServerTimeSpeed=1
checkClientTimeSpeed=0

BBB_Hyperion
05-24-2005, 07:00 AM
I mean the server which settings has the server/host to ensure no speedhack cheat works you would have to use this to avoid this speedhack cheat . This one is not a speedhack one.

Further it can be varified that this settings were active and still cheating was possible.

If not already added put these in the net section to ensure cheat protection is active.

Takata_
05-24-2005, 08:32 AM
I remember it happens with one leaked patch in the past.

One was able to fly online with different version of the game and stay "invulnerable" to others shooting.

May be it's the same bug again.

Takata

BBB_Hyperion
05-24-2005, 08:50 AM
Thats indeed the bug i was thinking about.

Try following shoot the la7 with a plane that was in the game as the la7 appeared that should clear things up when it works .

I will not post how it was done cause that maybe increase cheaters i would adwise others to stay quiet on the topic as well.

stubby
05-24-2005, 09:09 AM
I see all sorts of mysterious **** on public DF servers that I never see in private coops. Of course the coops are folks I know well and have been gaming for years with (between 12-20 folks). Bottom line - any fool that thinks folks don't exploit hacks or cheats because Il2 PF is 'closed', is delusional at best. Sadly my attitude when I go out to public servers is that **** will happend, I just choose not to whine about it because there's nothing that can be done. It's just not worth the effort. I know folks routinely blame lag or 'packet' loss for anamolies but the anamolies I routinely witness in DF coops just don't happen in the private coops I fly in routinely.

For the above reason, many have stopped flying online. No matter what 1c does, it still can't stop an idiot from inducing 'lag' when a pilot so desires.

ULTIMA_LATET
05-24-2005, 09:33 AM
S~ all

Well, people are using AMD Celeron 800Mhz with 512Mb RAM, 6 years old PCs when flying PF online and with 56k modem connection!!! And at the same time they are trying to talk to eachother via TeamSpeak!!! LOL Im not surprised strange things are going on out there...

Jetbuff
05-24-2005, 10:28 AM
Before anyone discounts Tipo_Man, watch the tracks.

The La7 in track 1 in particular went on to complete a 3-point (well almost) landing after taking enough 30mm rounds from the Tipo's Ki84 to down a battleship plus a few more 20mm to boot and just for good measure Tipo's plane itself!

While the external model showed the damage graphics, there was no smoke coming out of the engine, no appreciable decelleration or control problems nor loss of lift from the gigantic holes in the wing. Lag cannot explain this one as the individual in question did not appear to warp appreciably and the sheer number of point blank hits is incredible.

Also, it is not the speed-hack, this is something entirely new and I hope it's just a bug that breaks the online DM or something.

BBB_Hyperion
05-24-2005, 11:03 AM
I am aware that it is not the speedhack when you read my post carefully you will find that this thing isnt new and appeared a while ago already and it is known how it is done .

JG54_Arnie
05-24-2005, 11:22 AM
Yes, this is indeed different. Lets hope Oleg can sort this out quickly.

Oh, its known? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif good, even better.

BBB_Hyperion
05-24-2005, 11:28 AM
BTW Which game version this was recorded on 3.04 m
not that it was 2.nn something http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

SlickStick
05-24-2005, 11:57 AM
The invincibility issue happened back in AEP, when one would patch directly to V2.04 without V2.01. I'm trying to remember the full details as there were a few threads around, but it mostly dealt with the Spit IXs and the Yak that were added in those patches.

I sent in a couple of tracks showing the massive damage a Yak took and proceeded to land with no killed message in the chat or to the right. Just like it was never hit. On my screen and in the track, every aspect of the Yak's damage model was showing and it flew like it just rolled out of the factory.

FYI, "space-time continuum manipulating" programs can definitely be used in this manner. While the plane is warping, hits don't register on their plane, only what you see on your screen because they are at a different point in time with their fudged connection. I see it from warp bombers all of the time. Bombers taking 30-40 point blank 30mms or their gunners shooting the **** out of your plane, yet you never see one tracer. People have been time/packet loss cheating at this game since Day 1 of IL-2.

The laughable part is they usually have a 50mS ping and top of the line PC. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Hosts must use the settings in the conf.ini file to help prevent most of the cheating. Enable speed check for both host and client, set speed check to a decent value to balance between lag and cheating (I run 3%, 3secs) and don't forget the most important section, MAX LAG. I use 1.0 NEAR, 1.5 FAR and an autokick after 3 messages on my cable server.

The Top 5 FACTS about the difference between LAG and Maneuvering Warp in this game:

5. The plane in question only warps when in trouble or on the defensive.

4. When you set the netmessages.properties file to show the name of the pilot setting off the message, you start to see a pattern with certain flyers on every server, yet they have a top of the line PC and Cable connection.

3. When on the offensive or firing guns, the plane in #5 has a rock solid connection.

2. Every merge, on every server, at any time of the day, with one of these "packet-loss" pilots always results in the same speed up / slow down c*r*a*p, warp, stutters, cannon shell absorbing dogfight. The best way to see it is using External Pad Enemy Air. You'll get good at immediately telling the difference between a random lag and time manipulation after awhile.

1. The lag is always beneficial to their position. LOL, sorry. Random lag doesn't work that way. Induced lag does. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Tipo_Man
05-24-2005, 02:14 PM
Sorry guys, but this wasn't lag, neither speedcheat... The plane I was after flew smoothly in my gunsight, there was no abrupt course changes and so...
Well you can consider me the next spoiled child, whining about his inability to aim and shoot, but have a look at these tracks, before flaming me. I've been flying IL-2 for more than 3 years, and such a thing has never occured to me. And it actually "occured" for more than an hour, when I finally gave up. I was also very embarassed and refused to believe this a cheat, but couldn't find a decent explanation.
So it's up to You and Oleg now...

SlickStick
05-24-2005, 02:51 PM
I'll have to check the tracks when I get home, but I'm betting on it being a patching issue, as it was in AEP. From what people are describing so far about your tracks, they sound very similar to the ones I recorded.

Tvrdi
05-24-2005, 04:11 PM
If it is true its http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif
BTW, I hate when they disconnect (in online wars) after taking serious hits...and to be honest they are all from the same countries....how miserable you must be to behave like that....I dont see a pleasure in doin this

Urufu_Shinjiro
05-24-2005, 08:34 PM
After watching the la7 track2 I can't see how it's anything but cheating! My god I would have been yelling and screeming if I was hitting someone like that and they were still in one piece. Who ever this jerk is I hope he gets whats coming to him. (sorry, this sort of thing ticks me off)

96th_Nightshifter
05-24-2005, 09:50 PM
If this is a real cheat (sorry at work and can't watch the tracks yet but I beleive what you are saying) then lets just hope it becomes void with the new patch.
Weird though, I understand that this happened before during AEP but since the new patch isn't out yet then how can it be happening again? Perhaps something to do with the beta patches I keep hearing about?

FiAW_Vaijy
05-25-2005, 03:35 AM
We are waiting more of those ... "There is no cheating" , "This game is perfect allredy" "Only lag and poor connection" ,"Learn to fly" comments , where some of us are defending the real cheaters with blue eyes. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Good tracks are the best proof , great job done. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

I hope someone from Ubi soft team will explain this to us and they can prevent this way of cheating until someone find another way to trick others.

But we are lucky this isn't common anyway and the cheats are rare. But never try say it doesn't exist. And sometimes not even done on purpose.

Slechtvalk
05-25-2005, 04:30 AM
(seen the tracks).

He knew you couldn't damage him, he was not even trying to evade you and probaly was laughing his *** off knowing you where trying so hard.

tigertalon
05-25-2005, 04:50 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Slechtvalk:
(seen the tracks).

He knew you couldn't damage him, he was not even trying to evade you and probaly was laughing his *** off knowing you where trying so hard. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hi All

I experienced this bug once, target was also La7. The thing is, that he didn't even see me, he didn't see my fire, he didn't feel getting hit, and, most strange, altough I saw extensive damage (graphical - changed textures) over every sqare inch of his La, he saw himself as a brand new plane, altough I discharged entire I185 ammo loadout into him (it wasn't hard as he wasn't evading).

He simply didn't see me on the server. Then we chated a bit on this, he disconected, reset and connected again, to be "normal". But he wasn't, at least not to me. But I saw other guys shooting him down without much trouble.

This is why I believe it is a bug and not a cheat.

Slechtvalk
05-25-2005, 07:15 AM
You didn't watched the tracks did you?

Other planes where shooting at him aswell.
He had very bad damage but without any flying perfomance hit or smoke/fuel leaks and he could damage/shoot down other planes.

And he reconnected and sill had the same cheat/bug?

BBB_Hyperion
05-25-2005, 07:40 AM
The trick is what doesnt exist cant hurt him . You cannot kill him with planes that werent released in his product http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif . And he cant see you for same reason.

tigertalon
05-25-2005, 07:57 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BBB_Hyperion:
The trick is what doesnt exist cant hurt him . You cannot kill him with planes that werent released in his product http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif . And he cant see you for same reason. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, slechtvalk, I haven't seen them yet, I will when I come home from office.

Yes, Hyperion, this seems like a rational explanation. Because I saw my La7 being shot down easily by Bf109G6 and other fighters, but I could't touch him with my I-185, or like somebody else mentioned, with A9... And I, again, strongly disbelieve he was cheating, as he was quite a rookie, getting shot down a lot. (and, yes, both I185 and A9 appeared in 2.04 IIRC - so maybe he was using older version?)

JG54_Arnie
05-25-2005, 08:03 AM
So basically if someone installs the patches wrong by accident he could end up in this situation? Wouldnt be much use for cheating either as you cannot even see some of your targets?

Weird stuff. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

BBB_Hyperion
05-25-2005, 08:04 AM
Older version and actual fm with missing 3do objects .

T_O_A_D
05-25-2005, 10:05 AM
I can't get the tracks to play on any version.

T_O_A_D
05-25-2005, 10:13 AM
Ok so now I have the ones from Rapid share they work.

After viewing them all I can say is

Hmm defenitly something wrong there. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

HelSqnProtos
05-25-2005, 11:01 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FiAW_Vaijy:
We are waiting more of those ... "There is no cheating" , "This game is perfect allredy" "Only lag and poor connection" ,"Learn to fly" comments , where some of us are defending the real cheaters with blue eyes. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Good tracks are the best proof , great job done. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

I hope someone from Ubi soft team will explain this to us and they can prevent this way of cheating until someone find another way to trick others. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

S~!

Great Post! I only fly online.

Unfortunately online cheating is much more rampant than most people want to admit. Far too often the mods and other fanboys try to shout down someone who rings the "cheating bell" I don't expect the sim to be perfect. Far from it. However I do expect cheats to be dealt with swiftly. This game is all about skill. When a way is found for someone to negate all other players efforts online, that is tremendously destructive to the game, the series and the franchise. It strikes at the very core of why IL2 fans are so devoted. Because it is a game of SKILL. To become proficient one must practise and learn. It requires effort.

I too have seen this cheat recently. I was flying a spit against a bf109 G6. I was at 50m and I pounded him with everything till the guns ran dry. I could see the strikes, everything. NADA!~ I can't begin to tell you how discouraging something like that is. I did not have the presence of mind to record a track but I have now set up my Hotas so that I will be able to next time.

Cheats are here people. Sticking your head in the sand gets you nothing. "Awacks" "speedhacks" and "invulnerability" are just some of the availables. The same people who spread the betas are spreading the hacks by the way. Funny how that always seems to be the case doesn't it. As for the fanboys who say the code cannot be cracked, ect...... WAKE UP!! There is nothing that cant' be cracked as history has proven over and over and over again. I find it particularly fascinating that the ones who scream this the most, are often the serial cheaters. Guess why?

Cause they want the game left alone. They want to be able to continue to exploit bugs, holes, and hacks. Finding this stuff in DF servers is bad enough. But now it is making its way into competive online wars. There are some squads that people just refuse to fly with. You will see them waiting in a room forever. Then someone like myself comes along in the room right next to them and my 16 slot server is full in under a minute. I run the tightest anti cheat settings and recommend that EVERYONE follow BBB Hyperions advice regarding server settings. I was very fortunate early in my career to meet both BBB_Hyperion and VFC_CrazyIvan. They showed me what all the settings meant and how to properly set up a server. I believe CrazyIvan has a guide somewhere, it used to be sticky but as with most good things on these boards (like Bearcat's Sturmovik Essentials) it was removed for a show us what you look like thread or some other stupidity.

I applaud this thread and in particular its author. He had the presence of mind to identify the cheat. Record the data and then present it in a clear and concise manner here in ORR. By far one of the most usefull and constructive threads in months. What are the chances Oleg will respond to it? ~ Zero ~

Still I am ecstatic. You have reinvigorated me on an anticheat Crusade. I am in agreement with the poster who said that default timespeed checks should be at around 3% this needs to be done for this upcoming patch release. The eventlog cheat and others also need to be addressed IMMEDIATELY. There are several thousand players anxiously awaiting the release of VEF III. This online war has been on hold due to the patch for months. At least Oleg make the wait justified and acceptable by fixing some truly devastating cheats. After all, that is what patches are supposed to do right????

Before the fanboys jump in here with protestations of traitor or Oleg doesn't owe you anything or ........ whatever other stupidity. Let me say I love this game, I love flight sims. That is why I play the best one available. However, it will not remain the best for long if we allow it to become CFS II. Constructive critisism is vital to ANY game. The author of this post and most of the contributors have done a tremendous service to the community. Now it is up to the developer to address the problem. Sadly I fear we will not hear from him on this issue. As we have not on so many other issues. I miss the old days when he was active here. Sadly it no longer suits his agenda.

HelSqnProtos
05-25-2005, 11:52 AM
P.S

I was reminded by someone that until we know Janos71 server settings, a proper debrief on this episode cannot be determined. However those tracks are highly convincing to me at least. Please try to find out this host's settings so that this very very valuable discussion may proceed with the full facts.

tigertalon
05-25-2005, 01:18 PM
Good read HelSqnProtos. However, claiming this is a cheat, is a bit to soon I think. I agree with you - people cheat. At least they try to. At least some of them. But accusing anybody who happens to have a knife in his pocket of murder intentions is overreacting. Like Hyperion explained, there is a rational explanation for this bug: if server is running later version than one of his clients (he should not be able to connect in this case - that's a bug IMO) then this client will simply not see aircraft or other objects that were added later. Same happens here - La7 does not even see his attacker (Ki84), not trying to evade or sth. An example from history: one of drug dealers got hit by 10 9mm bullets from handguns and submachineguns in a gunfight, yet after it he was still able to wack 5 (!!!) FBI agents! Was he overmodelled? Or cheating? Strange things can happen IRL as well, just not that often.

Janos71 is a great server, flew there a couple of times. One of the things I like on that server is that it has no stats. This is why people cheat way less on this server - there is way less UFOing, lagging etc etc. People know eachother by flying not by stats on this server. This is one of the reasons that even more reduces probability it was a cheat.

Like I wrote above - EXACTLY THE SAME THING happened to me too, when I poured 660 shvak shells into a La7. And he was obviously quite a rookie, barely knowing how to take off. And he was nice, saying "gk" everytime he got shot down by somebody (and that was often) - I didn't see him shot down a single enemy. Yet I couldn't shoot him down, and as we found out later, he didn't even see me ont the server, not even by externals. I advised him to disconect, reset, and connect again, he did, but situation was the same. Maybe I was a problem, I dunno now. But he was not cheating for sure. Why would he just evade being shoot down by me and not by others?

A proof that somebody is cheating would be if he would be invincible to my fire, but would try to attack me, thus proving he can see me. In this case a probability it is indeed a cheat would be a bit bigger.

S!

BBB_Hyperion
05-25-2005, 01:44 PM
Saw that guy flying today on UKD so far he got shoot down seems he misses only some aep planes.

TX-EcoDragon
05-25-2005, 02:06 PM
I was winging with a friend one evening when I called a clear 6, and he acted like I must be kidding since he saw nobody near him. This didn't make much sense given that he had two spits diving on him while ammo hosing all the while. I saw him getting hit, he saw no planes, no tracers, and took no damage. He just flew along level minding his own business. I dove in and took one of the spits out and rolled over and took the next out. . . he saw me firing at nothing each time, and no explosions or anything. He was low on fuel and decided to RTB. As he was dropping gear another spit dove on him, and started firing at 1k out. . .it didn't do any damage to him either, and then, while still firing, the spit flew right into him. . . exploded, and gave him the kill credit for it!

I was crackin up watching all this, and both of us had tracks going, so we each swapped tracks and had a grand old time reviewing those.

It seems that he had a problem with the patch order in his installation that made a few airplanes invisible, and these aircraft where incapable of inflicting any damage. . .though they could clearly see him! I don't know if I'd call this a cheat though. . . since the other guy probably cant even see, let alone, shoot you! Perhaps he just doesn't yet realize, as was the case with the previously mentioned friend of mine. Send him the tracks!

If he isn't receptive to that then change your plane and enjoy blowing him outa the sky. ;-D

marcocomparato
05-25-2005, 02:29 PM
it would make alot of sense for optimization purposes, that the bulletholes and damage that you incur on an enemy plane are actually displayed client-side.

fordfan25
05-25-2005, 03:09 PM
the thing i ran into a couple of times was me in a p-51 i was about 1500ft Lv flight doing about 250mph. a La-7 was incomeing at 700ft from a long distence so i know he wasnt B/Z he pulled up hard as i went over him came up to my alt. and gained distence in a matter of about 30. sec. he lost no speed in the climb. the climb was vert not sustaind it was like he had anti grave tech lol. iv seen that happen a few times. fighters will turn very sharply at high speed. so sharp it should 100% induce black out and loose no speed. hear lately iv been seeing alot of strang stuff.

HelSqnProtos
05-25-2005, 04:55 PM
S~! TigerTalon, I am aware of this bug as are most old hands in the community. However as far as I know this was fixed long ago. Also I have never heard of anyone else complaing about invincibility until recently. This one seems to have appeared in the last week or so. I know we don't have a smoking gun. However, I reserve the right to make the generalization that where there is smoke there is often fire. It will be interesting to see if this continues. Especially since this was supposed to have been fixed. I think we would have heard more about it before now if it was a continuation of the patch order or version mismatch bugs.

Either way, the whole discussion on cheating was long overdue. Awacks has still not been addressed and there are a couple of others out there that I don't want to mention. I am glad that this thread has remained civil and on topic. For my part at least its all about maintaining fair play and the EXCELLENT reputation of this fine series. I figure that we have about another 2 years before B.O.B comes out and like it or not we will have to keep the cheaters out till its released. One thing about hacks is they never give up.

Can someone post Janos71 settings? I am interested and would like to correlate what I saw in the tracks with the anti cheat settings of the server. I feel that would give more data.

GR142-Pipper
05-25-2005, 09:47 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Tipo_Man:
OK,
I first want to say I still can't believe this... But it really looks like someone have broken the IL-2 encryption and cheating now is possible.

(...snip...) </div></BLOCKQUOTE> I recently had a similar experience. I was flying a Yak-3 and was in a horizontal turning fight with a 109K. The 109K outturned me and within two turns I was very defensive. I'm very familiar with the Yak-3 and know how to get the most out of it. This just isn't possible. Bottom line and unfortunately, I have to agree with you....the cheating genie is out of the bottle.

As an aside, how truly pathetic someone must be to stoop to using a cheat. I'm talking about someone who's a true loser in every sense of the word. Go figure.

GR142-Pipper

Badsight.
05-25-2005, 11:21 PM
Pipper , time speed hacks are not suddenly out of the bottle , they have been around since before IL2 even

heres a P-39 that never saw my Hayate or how many times i shot him

http://img281.echo.cx/img281/4254/totaldamadgep39s9cb.jpg

even ramming him was totally un-noticed on his screen

http://img281.echo.cx/img281/8888/p39rams7gg.jpg

he neither was aware i was in the air or on his six or shooting or ramming him

this p-39 recieved 4 Hayate ammo loads & was rammed by my fourth plane

zero bad effects were observed on his part during this test

this isnt a new thing & the old hands at this game should not be puzzeled over it , just the less said the better

HelSqnProtos
05-26-2005, 12:19 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Badsight.:
Pipper , time speed hacks are not suddenly out of the bottle , they have been around since before IL2 even.

This isnt a new thing & the old hands at this game should not be puzzeled over it , just the less said the better </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree the old hands know about it Badsight, by the way, very very interesting test. However I am not sure the less said about it the better. You have to shed light on a problem to IDENTIFY it before you can RECTIFY it. The problem here seems to be one of too many people wanting to ignore it and put their heads it the sand. Hacks need to be stopped, and it is Olegs obligation to do it. For the game, for the Pilots and for his own continued good business to thrive and prosper.

JG27_Dacripler
05-26-2005, 12:30 AM
I reviewed your tracks and noticed the cause effect were quite the opposite of your expectations.
I took some screenshots of the tracks and did notice the damage modeling. You were hitting the aircraft, But the frequncy or: "Oh my God, how in the world is that guy still alive?", would give me major concerns.

Both aircraft took visible damage but how they were airworthy was unbelievable in my honest opinion.
For review I took photos for the community and will post them or the benefit of a doubt.

JG27_Dacripler
05-26-2005, 12:53 AM
190 Track

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v299/airshowpilot/examination/FW1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v299/airshowpilot/examination/FW2.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v299/airshowpilot/examination/FW3.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v299/airshowpilot/examination/FW4.jpg

LA Track 1
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v299/airshowpilot/examination/Laa.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v299/airshowpilot/examination/lac.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v299/airshowpilot/examination/lad.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v299/airshowpilot/examination/laf.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v299/airshowpilot/examination/lah.jpg

Track 2
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v299/airshowpilot/examination/trk2a.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v299/airshowpilot/examination/trk2b.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v299/airshowpilot/examination/trk2c.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v299/airshowpilot/examination/trk2d.jpg


Track 3
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v299/airshowpilot/examination/grab0004.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v299/airshowpilot/examination/grab0005.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v299/airshowpilot/examination/grab0006.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v299/airshowpilot/examination/grab0007.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v299/airshowpilot/examination/grab0008.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v299/airshowpilot/examination/grab0009.jpg

I have a few more pictures but I don't have the answers. I have no idea how this could have happened with the frequency of spent ammunition..

JG54_Arnie
05-26-2005, 12:58 AM
JG27_Dacripler, did you actually read this thread? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Hmm, Protos, I think its pretty clear now what this is. Hyperion was right on it and I agree with his and others observations. This is simply a bug. The people who posted similar experiences here all show that its obvious that the pilot under fire has no idea what is happening. Just let Hyperion sort this out and give info to Oleg about it. This is just a bug, no cheat. Because you cannot use it as a cheat. The planes that you can see yourself will shoot you down anyways. Its just a pity for those that spend their ammo on an enemy that has no clue they are there. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

As for actual cheating, arent the only confirmed cheats the speedhacks (influencing the program from outside by selfinduced lag) and the log reading where info is displayed that shouldnt be there for people to read while in game?
The first one can already be countered by proper server settings, the latter will no doubt soon be fixed.
When it comes to actual code related cheating, IL2 is very tight, I dont close my eyes for it, but I have honestly never seen a track proving some kind of cheat based on gamecode.
My actual point: We should be carefull with calling things a cheat, investigate before posting. Where I agree with you that we should keep our eyes open, we should also be carefull not to cause hysteria, which happens easily if things arent investigated properly.

So far, this discussion certainly is a very good one! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

tigertalon
05-26-2005, 01:25 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by GR142-Pipper:
I recently had a similar experience. I was flying a Yak-3 and was in a horizontal turning fight with a 109K. The 109K outturned me and within two turns I was very defensive. I'm very familiar with the Yak-3 and know how to get the most out of it. This just isn't possible. Bottom line and unfortunately, I have to agree with you....the cheating genie is out of the bottle.

As an aside, how truly pathetic someone must be to stoop to using a cheat. I'm talking about someone who's a true loser in every sense of the word. Go figure.

GR142-Pipper </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I simply can't believe somebody had to cheat with K4 against yak3... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

JG27_Dacripler
05-26-2005, 01:35 AM
JG54_ Arnie after the author posted I reviewed the tracks so I could remain neutral to the whole situation rather than calling an individual a cheat or blaming a game which could be flawed.

Did you review the tracks? If so, what is your reaction?

JG54_Arnie
05-26-2005, 01:38 AM
Yes, good, I have seen the tracks as well. But I rather meant, after watching the tracks, did you read for example Hyperions posts? They explain what happens here I think, so my view: I agree with Hyperion. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

CARBONFREEZE
05-26-2005, 01:44 AM
With special patch and Cyrillic keyboard "console" cheats possible, be sure.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

HelSqnProtos
05-26-2005, 01:55 AM
<span class="ev_code_Yellow">S~! Arnie</span>

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by JG54_Arnie:

Hmm, Protos, I think its pretty clear now what this is. Hyperion was right on it and I agree with his and others observations. This is simply a bug. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

<span class="ev_code_Yellow">I very much hope your correct Arnie. Other people in the forums crusade for their favourite bird or load out or weapons. I hereby publicly state that I am an ANTICHEAT CRUSADER. Gonna see if the mods let me put that under my Avatar. Hate cheaters, was in a squad that had them and still does. They disgust me. I fly only online and its bad enough to deal with people with poor machines, real AND induced lag, crappy joysticks and the rest of it. For someone to hit a printscrn or something similiar drive me crazy. Have you flown War Clouds recently?? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/354.gif</span>
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">The people who posted similar experiences here all show that its obvious that the pilot under fire has no idea what is happening. Just let Hyperion sort this out and give info to Oleg about it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
<span class="ev_code_Yellow">If I trust anyone in this matter it is BBB_Hyperion and CrazyIvan. Known them since I started first started simming (they helped me set up my first Dedicated Server) and while we don't always agree on everything, I have tremendous respect for them both. BBB_Hyperion's technical knowledge in particular is really impressive. CrazyIvans contribution to the community needs no recognition from me. He is one badass Russian, hope to be simming with him in 20 years.</span>
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">As for actual cheating, arent the only confirmed cheats the speedhacks (influencing the program from outside by selfinduced lag) and the log reading where info is displayed that shouldnt be there for people to read while in game? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
<span class="ev_code_Yellow">Actually there are others, but for obvious reasons I won't get into them.</span>
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
The first one can already be countered by proper server settings, </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
<span class="ev_code_PINK">Unfortunately far too many people are still running the defaults. Especially in online Coops and wars. That is why I strongly recommend changing the conf settings in the next patch. Lets end this 15-20% timespeed check foolishness. No one needs to run anywhere near that loose. If you cant cut it on 3-5% you shouldn't be playing online, at least not competitively.I run extremely tight settings of:
[NET]
speed=8000
routeChannels=0
serverChannels=15
localPort=21000
remotePort=21000
SkinDownload=0
serverName=13th HELLENIC SQN - Allied Up -
serverDescription=13th has Priority - Max Ping 400, Netspeed 8000, Tight AntiCheat
remoteHost=
localHost=
socksHost=
checkServerTimeSpeed=1
checkClientTimeSpeed=1
checkTimeSpeedDifferense=0.05
checkTimeSpeedInterval=3

[MaxLag]
farMaxLagTime=1.5
nearMaxLagTime=1.0
cheaterWarningDelay=1.0
cheaterWarningNum=2

I am the Commander of a Hellenic Squadron, all of my Pilots live in Greece, it has some of the worst connections in the world. I put it on par with the Ukraine and Russia. Just old lines and equiptment. Even still, with their poor connections I dont drop any of my Pilots or anyone else for that matter. Wether it be coops, online wars ect.... some of these Pilots are on dialup. So clearly if Pilots from this part of the world are able to play smoothly and cleanly on these settings, I don't think 15-20% is required or justified. Lest fix this at the default leve. The same way Hyperlobby went from 2000 netspeed to 8000. We have to move the NetCode forward.</span>
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">the latter will no doubt soon be fixed. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
<span class="ev_code_Yellow">I certainly hope your right Arnie, unfortunately it has been out for several months and I haven't heard anything from Oleg or any Dev on it. Please correct me if I am wrong on this. This cheat was devastating in Bellum. Some Pilots stopped flying competitively because of it. While I don't know if there is a correlation, Bellum closed down very soon after this hack was discovered.</span>
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">When it comes to actual code related cheating, IL2 is very tight, I dont close my eyes for it, but I have honestly never seen a track proving some kind of cheat based on gamecode.
My actual point: We should be carefull with calling things a cheat, investigate before posting. Where I agree with you that we should keep our eyes open, we should also be carefull not to cause hysteria, which happens easily if things arent investigated properly. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
<span class="ev_code_Yellow">Agreed Arnie, however I hope you are not trying to say that these tracks should not have been investigated. I again public commend the initial poster TIPO_MAN for his diligence. Should this prove to be a recurrence of the old patch version bug instead of an outright hack, the Pilot who made these tracks did the right thing. He observed atypical behaviour, documented it very well and brought it to the best place for discussion and investigation. KUDOS TO HIM. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif</span>
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">So far, this discussion certainly is a very good one! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
<span class="ev_code_Yellow">I couldn't agree more Sir -- One of the highest quality threads in ORR in a very long time. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

This is due to the quality of the posts from people like yourself and BBB and many others. You have the cream of the community discussing and investigating this. I am proud to contribute in a small way. Even if it is just by raising hell cause I hate cheaters.

I hope Big Oleg comes in on this one. It sure would set the tone. </span>

GR142-Pipper
05-26-2005, 02:16 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I simply can't believe somebody had to cheat with K4 against yak3... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

A Yak-3 in a horizontal fight with a 109K will eat it alive..which was the situation I described. There's no doubt whatsoever what occurred was outside of the game parameters.

GR142-Pipper

GR142-Pipper
05-26-2005, 02:22 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Badsight.:
Pipper , time speed hacks are not suddenly out of the bottle , they have been around since before IL2 even

(...snip...)

this isnt a new thing & the old hands at this game should not be puzzeled over it , just the less said the better </div></BLOCKQUOTE> Well, you're obviously right about this. I was under the impression that when the game moved on to IL-2 FB, much of that was left behind. Clearly I was mistaken. There is another aspect to this as well in that I was astounded to see who the individual was who was doing it. I just didn't want to believe it so I gave it some time to see if it was true. It was. That person's integrity stock instantly went to zero...very, very disappointing.

GR142-Pipper

JG54_Arnie
05-26-2005, 02:29 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by HelSqnProtos:
<span class="ev_code_Yellow">S~! Arnie.
I very much hope your correct Arnie. Other people in the forums crusade for their favourite bird or load out or weapons. I hereby publicly state that I am an ANTICHEAT CRUSADER. Gonna see if the mods let me put that under my Avatar. Hate cheaters, was in a squad that had them and still does. They disgust me. I fly only online and its bad enough to deal with people with poor machines, real AND induced lag, crappy joysticks and the rest of it. For someone to hit a printscrn or something similiar drive me crazy. Have you flown War Clouds recently?? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/354.gif</span>
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
S! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
No, havent flown on Warclouds, not all much actually. Have flown on GG intensively (for my doing) about a month ago though.. what is it with Warclouds? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
Anyways, agreed, cheaters are scum, good luck on the crusade, if you need help, let me know. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by HelSqnProtos:
<span class="ev_code_Yellow">Actually there are others, but for obvious reasons I won't get into them.</span> </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Rgr, is there any form of counter cheats testing going on? That should happen without posting the findings in public and with direct communication to Oleg imo.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by HelSqnProtos:
<span class="ev_code_Yellow">Agreed Arnie, however I hope you are not trying to say that these tracks should not have been investigated. I again public commend the initial poster TIPO_MAN for his diligence. Should this prove to be a recurrence of the old patch version bug instead of an outright hack, the Pilot who made these tracks did the right thing. He observed atypical behaviour, documented it very well and brought it to the best place for discussion and investigation. KUDOS TO HIM. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif</span> </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Oh no, I defenitely agree he did a good job on this, this thread is a template for those that want to have this kind of findings investigated! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

That Bellum story sound bad though http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif But certainly people have communicated this problem to Oleg in that case? If so, then I have no doubt its not gonna be solved.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by HelSqnProtos:
<span class="ev_code_Yellow">I couldn't agree more Sir -- One of the highest quality threads in ORR in a very long time. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

This is due to the quality of the posts from people like yourself and BBB and many others. You have the cream of the community discussing and investigating this. I am proud to contribute in a small way. Even if it is just by raising hell cause I hate cheaters.

I hope Big Oleg comes in on this one. It sure would set the tone. </span> </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

tigertalon
05-26-2005, 03:10 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by GR142-Pipper:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I simply can't believe somebody had to cheat with K4 against yak3... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

A Yak-3 in a horizontal fight with a 109K will eat it alive..which was the situation I described. There's no doubt whatsoever what occurred was outside of the game parameters.

GR142-Pipper </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Exactly. Only people dumb enough to try to outturn yak3 with K4 are the ones that need cheats to do so.

Yak3 is a toast against K4, but in vertical fight. K4 has tremendous rate of climb and will eat yak3 alive. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

JG54_Arnie
05-26-2005, 04:00 AM
Hmm, I have this unexplained urge to jump in a yak3 and shoot you down Tiger *Raaarrrrhhhggg!!!* http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

Da_Godfatha
05-26-2005, 05:03 AM
One thing I have noticed about servers where cheats (or possible cheats) show up, they all have one thing in common. They seem to be always on a Wonder Woman server. Maybe there is a tie between cheats and no-cockpit view.

IMO, no cockpit or Wonder Woman View is for girly pilots. But alas, 90% of all servers have this. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

Badsight.
05-26-2005, 05:53 AM
Da Godfather , locked pit makes warp hacks eaiser to get away with , loose speedtimecheck settings are what allows this to happen , not room settings

without externals , people are discovered using it less

this does no good being talked about , the less that people know about how to access cheats the better , all who need to be told of this is the makers of the product

tigertalon
05-26-2005, 07:12 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by JG54_Arnie:
Hmm, I have this unexplained urge to jump in a yak3 and shoot you down Tiger *Raaarrrrhhhggg!!!* http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

U challenging me? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/icon_twisted.gif

JG54_Arnie
05-26-2005, 07:28 AM
Aye! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/353.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/mockface.gif

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif When and where? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

mynameisroland
05-26-2005, 07:58 AM
I have not watched the tracks yet but I hope it is a bug as described rather than a genuine cheat.

Two nights ago on UKD I encountered a Yak 1B that seemed invulnerable. I was in gunpod carrying 109 G2 and had 3 firing passes on the Yak on the third he went down but on each pass I hit his aircraft with at least 5/7 20mm hits on each pass on the fuselage, cockpit, and wingroots. He finally died I think with his wing shot off. I shot down about 5 other Yaks on the same map using the same connection. Now this guy def knew I was there as he was dogfighting me and responded in the chat bar. The other Yaks went down with 3/5 hits two pilot kills and the rest dewings. I know if I hit a plane and what to expect - this guy took a pounding with no fuel leak, no engine damage nothing, not even control loss.

What makes it even more bizarre is that most of my shots were deflection shots striking his plane from a 10 o'clock position getting a good plan view of his aircraft. I was using the Mg151 with minengeschloss shells which are lethal to fighter sized targets.

Id this caused by lag? or is this due to an old DM for the Yak1B in relation to other planes? I know the Lag3 is affected by this prob.

Little things like this and print screeners are the worst and most frequent cheats. How many times have you been on a bandits six only for the screen to momentarily freeze.

JG54_Arnie
05-26-2005, 10:55 AM
Hmm, the Yak-1B certainly is a tough bastard in game, so combined with lag it could be a partypooper.
Would be usefull to have tracks of such problems for sure, without its hard to say anything usefull about it really.

HelSqnProtos
05-26-2005, 11:18 AM
Rgr, tracks are the key. I urge all players to have stop/start track functions activated on their Hotas or through Voice Activated Commands. I tried this program last night and it was fabulous. Just say "Start Track" and your rolling! Same for stopping.

Let the Anti Cheat Crusade Begin!!!!!

TX-EcoDragon
05-26-2005, 01:28 PM
I guess I need to find my and Zen's tracks. . . when you see this from two perspectives, one from the normal install (mine) and from the buggy install it's pretty clear what's going on. I reported this back when it happened, and this was before PF I am pretty sure. In any case, this guy has probably had this bug since version 2.xx which I think is pretty strange that he wouldn't have noticed that something isn't right but now. I still say you should show him the tracks you have here, and let him now why it's going on. I really can€t see why anyone wouldn't want to see any of the planes added since the Ki84! Makes you wonder if he is new to the online side of this sim.

Atomic_Marten
05-26-2005, 01:59 PM
10$ on tigertalon. Lemme know how that went.

quiet_man
05-26-2005, 02:58 PM
@TX-EcoDragon

I fully agree, you need to give anyone a chance to comment before telling him guilty.

If the shown effect comes from the bug that you cannot be damaged from planes that you cannot see, how could you call this a cheat?
not on a dogfight server!

If someone uses this as "cheat", he's more stupid than a real cheater http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

quiet_man

JG54_Arnie
05-26-2005, 04:04 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Atomic_Marten:
10$ on tigertalon. Lemme know how that went. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

TX-EcoDragon
05-26-2005, 05:45 PM
OK, I found the trackfile archive I sent in to Oleg. It contains the same time period as seen from my viewpoint and from Zen's. Mine has spits on the map, Zen's doesn't. I have uploaded it here:

ftp://69.56.198.2/Tracks/no%20spit%20tracks.zip

Note that that the ftp is down sporadically while we get some things sorted out on the server.

These tracks would have been a lot better if both Zen and I had started tracks from the outset of that sortie. . . but these still pretty clearly show what was going on.

Things like this is a part of why I like to record tracks almost always since it can show if it's funny business or perhaps something that just wasn't obvious at the time, it can also show what works and what doesn't against certain opponents, and it's pretty handy for evaluating team cohesion (or lack of it). What would be really cool would be if we could jump into the cockpit of the aircraft other than our own.

TX-EcoDragon
05-27-2005, 03:59 PM
The other day I saw this. . . talk about a good time to have a track going. . .check out this blatant use of the prop pitch cheat!

http://www.ipacs.de/download/shockypps4d.wmv


:-D

JG5_UnKle
05-28-2005, 02:34 PM
Well it's a bug, but if you know what you are doing then it can be a cheat. Thankfully no-one has mentioned how to do it, but it sure looks like that is the same issue

HelSqnProtos
05-28-2005, 09:12 PM
Wait!!! There is no such thing remember! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

WWMaxGunz
05-29-2005, 01:18 AM
EcoDragon, could you check your PM please?

Copperhead310th
05-29-2005, 01:49 AM
this is nothing new. a lot of the axis guys have been useing this for a long time now.
where do you think speed hack got started????

Copperhead310th
05-29-2005, 01:53 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TX-EcoDragon:
The other day I saw this. . . talk about a good time to have a track going. . .check out this blatant use of the prop pitch cheat!

http://www.ipacs.de/download/shockypps4d.wmv

that thing flies like the current bf 109 in this sim. lol it's so funny when i see these guys do this **** online. 109= UBER

:-D </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

AnaK774
05-29-2005, 03:30 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Copperhead310th:
this is nothing new. a lot of the axis guys have been useing this for a long time now.
where do you think speed hack got started???? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

maybe somewhere more east of you?

Vipez-
05-30-2005, 03:57 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by AnaK774:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Copperhead310th:
this is nothing new. a lot of the axis guys have been useing this for a long time now.
where do you think speed hack got started???? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

maybe somewhere more east of you? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

or a lot east of him.. :P

JG5_UnKle
05-30-2005, 12:41 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Copperhead310th:
this is nothing new. a lot of the axis guys have been useing this for a long time now.
where do you think speed hack got started???? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Typical http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

rummyrum
06-02-2005, 08:47 AM
Copperhead, always making us Americans shine. Shine on bright star....shine on.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

rednine
06-02-2005, 09:29 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Copperhead310th:
this is nothing new. a lot of the axis guys have been useing this for a long time now.
where do you think speed hack got started???? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
man get over it,

quiet_man
06-02-2005, 09:50 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Copperhead310th:
this is nothing new. a lot of the axis guys have been useing this for a long time now.
where do you think speed hack got started???? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

quiet_man

quiet_man
06-02-2005, 09:59 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Copperhead310th:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TX-EcoDragon:
The other day I saw this. . . talk about a good time to have a track going. . .check out this blatant use of the prop pitch cheat!

http://www.ipacs.de/download/shockypps4d.wmv

that thing flies like the current bf 109 in this sim. lol it's so funny when i see these guys do this **** online. 109= UBER

:-D </div></BLOCKQUOTE> </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

those stupid germans, develop automatic systems that take away power and require the pilot to switch around during flight http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

when I jump into allied planes I have much less to worry about engine setting http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

but even more stupid that the allied also to introduce such stuff during the war http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

they didn't know about IL2 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/mockface.gif

enough smilies spend,
quiet_man

Lixma
06-02-2005, 10:36 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by GR142-Pipper:
There is another aspect to this as well in that I was astounded to see who the individual was who was doing it. I just didn't want to believe it so I gave it some time to see if it was true. It was. That person's integrity stock instantly went to zero...very, very disappointing.

GR142-Pipper </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oooohhh....I love gossip ! Page me the name at HL, Pipper.

JG27_Dacripler
06-03-2005, 12:33 AM
Timex Yak takes a licking and keeps on ticking not one trace of fuel or fire. This one actualy turned on me and took off my wing after I left all of my ammo in it.. Oh well, win Some lose some.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v82/Dacripler/main/Yak2.jpg

BBB_Hyperion
06-03-2005, 01:07 AM
Did it crash into you and your wing did cut off or did it shoot your wing off if later then you should send in a track http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

anarchy52
06-03-2005, 03:04 AM
Issue has been present before and was related to players using different versions (shouldn't be possible to join the game) but with BETAs...perhaps.

Also old issue, but fairly rare. Happened to me recently: I was with my teammates in COOP, I ask my m8 to take no.1 plane and he says he did, but I don't see him in the slot...oh well. Then game starts and I don't see him in front of me, I ask No3 if he can see No1 and he confirms he can. So No1 was completelly invisible to me only. Hard to be a wingman to an invisible leader http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

As for cheater crusades...only REAL cheat that has been confirmed was use of speedhack, but if You fly on tight settings no problem. I remember there were a lot of people using speedhack in VEF2 at certain point. Best fun I ever had when flying with host on tight settings - once an entire squad got autokicked as they engaged warp drives http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif.
I guess people in their n00b phase shout "Cheater!" a lot when they get owned online. We've all been there, don't deny it. In fact frequency of "Cheater!" shouting is directly proportional to 1/experience and 1/score. So be carefull not to embarass yourself.

TX-EcoDragon
06-03-2005, 01:23 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by anarchy52:
Issue has been present before and was related to players using different versions (shouldn't be possible to join the game) but with BETAs...perhaps.

Also old issue, but fairly rare. Happened to me recently: I was with my teammates in COOP, I ask my m8 to take no.1 plane and he says he did, but I don't see him in the slot...oh well. Then game starts and I don't see him in front of me, I ask No3 if he can see No1 and he confirms he can. So No1 was completelly invisible to me only. Hard to be a wingman to an invisible leader http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

As for cheater crusades...only REAL cheat that has been confirmed was use of speedhack, but if You fly on tight settings no problem. I remember there were a lot of people using speedhack in VEF2 at certain point. Best fun I ever had when flying with host on tight settings - once an entire squad got autokicked as they engaged warp drives http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif.
I guess people in their n00b phase shout "Cheater!" a lot when they get owned online. We've all been there, don't deny it. In fact frequency of "Cheater!" shouting is directly proportional to 1/experience and 1/score. So be carefull not to embarass yourself. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, I have actually seen another similar bug that doesn't seem to depend on patch order, where a player joins and none of us can see them, but they can see, and shoot us. . . now that I'd call a cheat! The strange thing is that the guy I say doing this only showed up in the df player list as a blank line after the slot number. . . pretty strange. I saw this way back in 1.04 (around there) of IL-2, and once in FB before AEP. . . not enough to really seem like any more than a random bug, since I am sure that would spread like wildfire. I for one have seen a few folks over the years that seem to do things deliberatly to give them an "unfair advantage" and generally I think you're only recourse is to not fly with them (or shoot them down and prepare to be called a cheater yourself!), don't fly their servers and run a tight ship if you run your own server. Then, like anarchy says, you still get the folks that don't get the idea of a high yoyo or angles who insist your K4 outturns their spitfire. . .and so you must be a cheater. . .about them there isn't much to do but perhaps invite them to a training session and teach them something other than the never ending horizontal left turn.

BSS_Vidar
06-03-2005, 04:36 PM
Oh man.. Speed Cheat?

Sounds like something I whitnessed in a 1 vs 1 match with an "Unknown".

Senerio:
- F4U-1 vs F4U-1
- Side-by-side start at mid-field
- One heads one way, the other 180 out.
- Host calls "Fights On"
- No shooting till after first pass
- Engagement starts at co-altitdue (no dives- energy "should" be very close to equal)

From the start I kept my HOG at full throttle. I made a wide easy turn back into the bogey after the 'Fights On' call to keep my speed up.

At Head-to-Head, this guys pulls into the virticle and I pull to try to match him canopy-to-canopy... Not to persue, but to keep an equal footing. This was after getting beat badly in the virticle several times, so I became suspicious. This guy badly out climbs me everytime! In a chase at co-altitude, his Corsair runs me down like I'm standing still.

At one point, I finaly got into a good turn fight with'em. By his speed, he was bled down pretty well, so I made my move to close in for the kill. He pulls into the prue virticle just a few knots above stall speed, and leaves me sitting there holding my joystick, then guns me down yet again.

Sound like this so-called Speed Cheat to you folks?

What's even more disturbing is I knew this tactic being used. I had seen it before by a known name with very similar results. No, I'm not saying who. This "Unknown" name was one that made no since to it, more like random keys hit on the keyboard to log in.

1 vs 1 in the same airframe, I can hold my own against anyone, But this... This was very weird.

janos71
06-05-2005, 03:58 AM
I believe the incident you refer to happened on my server because my conf.ini missed couple of important lines. This happened because I reinstalled game and you guess what happened then.. I just added lines I remembered to conf.ini but had forgotten few (lol). I now added missing lines so this should be no problem now. Lately I havent looked into these settings, because Im so busy with missions and other duties.

Join the server :P

Badsight.
06-05-2005, 05:54 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BSS_Vidar:
Sound like this so-called Speed Cheat to you folks?. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>thats the speed cheat

Orion_GR
06-20-2005, 03:00 AM
i thing the problem is on the connections at 90%, many of the pilots dont know what is the "Cheating has been detected" and is beter to fix that first :

You may ask: "But what about messages I've seen in the chat about cheating?"
The developers have included a feature in the online game that checks players' pings. If it detects a high or fluctuating ping while the player is in combat, it reports by default "Cheating has been detected." This is a problem with lag, not with cheating, and in my opinion a poor choice of words. If you would like to see a different message for this or any of the other default messages, navigate to your main FB directory &gt; i18n Use notepad to open the file: netmessages.properties. Inside you will see some text like this:

user_cheating1 Cheating has been detected!
user_cheating2 Cheating has been detected!
user_cheating3 Cheating has been detected!

Try changing it to something like this:

user_cheating1 {0} has a high ping.
user_cheating2 {0} has a lousy ISP!
user_cheating3 {0} is causing lag!

With these corrections you will be able to see who's triggering the message (with the {0} tag that inserts the offending player's name). You will also be able to see if the person is causing repeat offenses (on the first offence you receive the fist message and so on). You can type anything you want because only you will see what you enter in game. You can also alter other things in this file, so play with it a little.
You ask: "I've seen players fly at right angles, zoom vertically at Mach speed, fly underground, and backwards. How do you explain that?"
This is just a symptom of lag. When a player loses contact with the server (packet loss), the server shows the player's aircraft flying along on the last known heading. When the computers re-establish contact, the server corrects the player's position. In that time, the player may have turned around, climbed, or dove. When the server corrects, the aircraft will appear to zoom to its new position.

" il2flying.com "

This is the first part.

The other is more simple, someone have a beter hardware from another (Large monitor, VGA Card, TrackIR, HOTAS, e.t.c), and finaly someone is a good pilot, this is the game guys !!!! in the Lobby is many very good pilots, is a cheaters to ??

i use a 22" monitor and i shot planes from a distance, i'm a cheater ?

i read something about the Print Screen, stop it is a stupit and everyone now this "cheat" is not working, if you press the print screen you have a delay, yes but only on your computer, try it with a friend !!!!

For me the solution is simple, try the 1 vs 1 and then you see who is the cheater and hoo is the noob !!

Thank you

GR142-Pipper
06-21-2005, 02:51 AM
I really hadn't read this thread until now. As an aside, it's hard to imagine how absolutely pathetic individuals have to be to stoop to cheating. What hopeless losers. It's a sure bet they're no-hack losers in real life as well. The good news is that sooner or later, nature selects against them.

GR142-Pipper

RAF74_Poker
06-21-2005, 09:54 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Orion_GR:
i read something about the Print Screen, stop it is a stupit and everyone now this "cheat" is not working, if you press the print screen you have a delay, yes but only on your computer, try it with a friend !!!!

Thank you </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm glad you pointed this out, Orion.

. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

rumsinsfeld
06-22-2005, 04:59 AM
Speed ch... ah exploit works.
Try this tool: http://www.cpuid.org/clockgen.php
Just stay within timecheck, otherwise you get a timeout.

Buggsy111
07-18-2005, 08:29 AM
I had a 109K, I started 2,000 above another 109k. We went headon, after a couple 360's, I gave up, and just flew straight cause I couldnt figure out what was going on.

He was below me at a 30 degree angle, starting 2,000 out. I flew straight and level and kept climbing at 250 just to see what the deal was.

Somehow he kept closing in like he had an extra 25% engine power. He couldnt even hit me, I wanted him to kill me so I could see who's name it was. He mysteriously broke off after being 100 behind me with a perfect shot and me flying nice and straight.

I see no point in playing online, when having a 2k altitude advantage in the same plane, and 20 seconds later end up having the dude closing in on me in the middle of an optimal level-wing climb. As if he was pushing some magical boost button every 5 seconds.

rumsinsfeld
07-22-2005, 03:02 AM
People don't seem interested.
I repeat: With some tools you can dynamically overclock your system, for example with this one: http://www.cpuid.org/clockgen.php

When you fly online just switch to that tool and overclock your system for 10%. You dont see an improvement on your tachometer but your system is running faster and so is your aircraft in comparison to your online opponents. You just have to look at the timecheck numbers at the login, for example 20% 17seconds. The percentage number is the limit to which you can overclock.

Make a test: Overclock your system for 10% and run a 1 minute track. Stop the time with your watch, the track should be finished in 54 seconds.

On some servers (for example Warclouds) the settings are at 5%, but even 5% can make the difference. 5% at 720kmh is an extra speed of 36kmh, and you gain 10 meters per second or 100 meters in 10 seconds.